Donkai Havertz | Arsenal Watch

marktan said:
He was a starter in the team that won the CL. Scored in the final. Yeah he was bad last season but who wasn't. The likes of Sterling, Mudryk, Modueke they've signed are way worse than him. For a possession team like Arsenal he will do very well.

For what it's worth I think Havertz for £60m is better value for Arsenal than Mount for £50m will be for United.
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None of those players are his direct replacement, Nkunku is.
 
Irrational. said:
Arse and Chelsea have some kind of love-in going on. They’re frequently exchanging players, going back to the days of Gallas and Ashley Cole.

Arsenal really have given Chelsea a get-out-of-jail card by overpaying for Havertz.
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Do you really think Arsenal, and City, and Utd when they spend close to £60m on Mount, are worried about giving Chelsea a get out of jail card, or more about improving their own teams.

The get out of jail card will be selling the likes of Kouilbaly and Ziyech to Saudi.
 
Good for both clubs. Arsenal needed to add depth competing in champs league and likely expecting another title race. Havertz certainly gives them stronger squad depth to compete well..a decent signing for them and perhaps better suited to their style. Chelsea happy to get that money for him.
 
GoonerBear said:
Do you really think Arsenal, and City, and Utd when they spend close to £60m on Mount, are worried about giving Chelsea a get out of jail card, or more about improving their own teams.

The get out of jail card will be selling the likes of Kouilbaly and Ziyech to Saudi.
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We broke even or had a small loss on FFP on those sales. Havertz clears £32m for FFP figures. I really do not know that we were ever in FFP trouble, but if we were the only number I have seen that is £20m.

I completely agree that clubs do not give af about helping us with FFP, if anything the number was so low it was never going to be a hurdle. Teams are trying to improve.

That said….. still funny

 
Struggle to understand what Arteta is seeing here.
Havertz seems completely surplus to requirements at Chelsea. They bought him for 72mil and getting 65mil back for him.
Surely Arsenal could have got him for far less. I doubt anyone else is knocking on the door for him.
And they bring in Nkunku to replace him for 52mil.
Amazing al round
 
Dancfc said:
None of those players are his direct replacement, Nkunku is.
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Nkunku plays either on the left or as a forward. Havertz is a leftie.

And there's no guarantee Nkunku is going to be any good. Scoring goals for Leipzig in the Bundesliga means little these days.
 
Pughnichi said:
Good for both clubs. Arsenal needed to add depth competing in champs league and likely expecting another title race. Havertz certainly gives them stronger squad depth to compete well..a decent signing for them and perhaps better suited to their style. Chelsea happy to get that money for him.
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Do you pay 65mil for squad depth?
 
gaffs said:
Do you pay 65mil for squad depth?
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They offered quite a bit more for Mudryk in January and I doubt he would be starting over Martinelli, so it seems they are willing to spend big on squad depth.
 
marktan said:
Nkunku plays either on the left or as a forward. Havertz is a leftie.

And there's no guarantee Nkunku is going to be any good. Scoring goals for Leipzig in the Bundesliga means little these days.
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No guarantee of anything, but Nkunku is very promising.

You wont find one Chelsea fan making a case for keeping Havertz.
 
Seems like a strange transfer to me, 65 million for someone who is potentially for squad depth? Chelsea basically paid for Nkunku with this deal, great bit of business by them.
 
unplayable said:
They offered quite a bit more for Mudryk in January and I doubt he would be starting over Martinelli, so it seems they are willing to spend big on squad depth.
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Mudryk was seen as a massive emerging talent. Someone who could potentially improve on Martinelli.

I don't think anyone thinks that Havertz is a potential upgrade on any player in the Arsenal starting XI.

Adding depth is what they did with when they bought Trossard for 20mil plus add ons. That is smart business.

65mil for Havertz, based on what we have seen of him at Chelsea, it is bizarre.
 
God knows why, considering his form since he signed for Chelsea, but I get Bergkamp vibes from Havertz.
 
Not jealous of this one. I’m interested to see how it turns out, but seems like a lot of money for someone who has already proven to be nothing special in the PL.

On the other hand, it seems like great business for Chelsea.
 
Pughnichi said:
these days absolutely yes you do. To compete and go deep into the big competitions.
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Name a player that has been bought for 65mil with the intention of that player adding "squad depth".

City are buying Kovačić at 30mil for squad depth, same with Arsenal adding Trossard for 20mil. United looking to buy Mount around 50mil is with the intention of improving the first XI and pushing Erikson.
 
gaffs said:
Mudryk was seen as a massive emerging talent. Someone who could potentially improve on Martinelli.

I don't think anyone thinks that Havertz is a potential upgrade on any player in the Arsenal starting XI.

Adding depth is what they did with when they bought Trossard for 20mil plus add ons. That is smart business.

65mil for Havertz, based on what we have seen of him at Chelsea, it is bizarre.
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For 65m he is going to start.
 
marktan said:
Nkunku plays either on the left or as a forward. Havertz is a leftie.

And there's no guarantee Nkunku is going to be any good. Scoring goals for Leipzig in the Bundesliga means little these days.
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Both Nkunku and Havertz are at their best playing in the number 10 role behind a striker.

It's very likely Poch, who prefers a 4-2-3-1, will play Nkunku this way. And if he'd stayed under Poch then that would have been Havertz best role too.

It's true there are no guarantees with Nkunku being successful but I'll take an unknown quality over an already failed experiment any day of the week.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Not jealous of this one. I’m interested to see how it turns out, but seems like a lot of money for someone who has already proven to be nothing special in the PL.

On the other hand, it seems like great business for Chelsea.
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He is proven already in EPL. So Edu and Arteta know exactly the kind of player they are getting. Jesus, Zinchenko, Jorginho, Trossard were the transfer that had already proven in EPL (whether good or bad) in EPL. So their quality are known to Edu and Arteta.
 
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Of the three proposed Chelsea transfers to the top 3 teams in the league this season, Kovacic is the one which appears to make the most sense on paper. A press resistant no.8 who is great in the first and middle phase of play supplements to Man City’s midfield.

In contrast, Havertz and Mount seem to be signings in area of the field where both reported clubs already hold strong players and would seem (from an outside perspective) to be better off spending those funds on positions of priority.

It’ll be interesting to see which of the 3 signings works our best.
 
Skills said:
How is Klopp trying to copy Guardiola's tactics?
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Moving Trent in to midfield as an inverted fullback part way through the season, joining Fabinho as a holding midfielder. If this was obvious, why did he wait until Pep had deployed it this season to go for a 3-2-5?
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
i am not Arteta or Edu so can't answer your question, but Arsenal can't afford spending 65m on a squad player.
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I completely agree they cant afford to spend 65mil on a squad player. I don't think any team can, unless they really see that player as a young emerging talent and are willing to nurture him for a few years.

Yet, people on this thread are saying the purchase is for depth.

Artera must see something that few others don't here, but i cant see him improving on any of Arsenal's front 3 or midfield starters.

The price is crazy when Havertz seems surplus to requirements at Chelsea. No one else would go near him at this price.

Arsenal are doing a bigger favor to Chelsea than the Saudis!
 
No idea how we have managed to get so much for Havertz.

Started okay, scored that goal, then regressed badly. Hasn’t done much since.

Not bothered in the slightest he is leaving.

I’m more upset about Mount leaving. However again, I wouldn’t have Mount I’m the starting 11 in a 4231 if Poch plays this.
 
gaffs said:
I completely agree they cant afford to spend 65mil on a squad player. I don't think any team can, unless they really see that player as a young emerging talent and are willing to nurture him for a few years.

Yet, people on this thread are saying the purchase is for depth.

Artera must see something that few others don't here, but i cant see him improving on any of Arsenal's front 3 or midfield starters.

The price is crazy when Havertz seems surplus to requirements at Chelsea. No one else would go near him at this price.

Arsenal are doing a bigger favor to Chelsea than the Saudis!
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The difference obviously is both Edu and Arteta rate Havertz highly and want him in the team, and football fans don't. We shall see how it works out next season.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
He is proven already in EPL. So Edu and Arteta know exactly the kind of player they are getting. Jesus, Zinchenko, Jorginho, Trossard were the transfer that had already proven in EPL (whether good or bad) in EPL. So their quality are known to Edu and Arteta.
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Yeah, like I said he has proven himself to be nothing special in the EPL. He has proven that he can score a goal every 4.5 games, approximately. Is that worth £65m? We shall see. But if I was an Arsenal fan I would have liked to see that money spent elsewhere.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Yeah, like I said he has proven himself to be nothing special in the EPL. He has proven that he can score a goal every 4.5 games, approximately. Is that worth £65m? We shall see. But if I was an Arsenal fan I would have liked to see that money spent elsewhere.
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To me seems like EPL proven transfer has less risk. Edu paid £34m for Vieira and it didn't work well so far.
 
TheLord said:
Box-to-box.
He has absolutely no attributes for that role! Very poor physical strength, some nice flicks and crosses but very little long-range passing. His running would make a 40-year-old Robben blush.
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Absolute nonsense. The guy can run, he was clocked as the fastest in the Bundesliga at one point! His pressing stats are very good which only happens if you're mobile. If you can't run these things don't happen so I really don't know where you're getting your information to make such claims when they don't tally with reality.

As for physical strength, it's not really a huge deal to be ludicrously strong or play long balls as an 8, particularly in a side like Arsenal. They are better attributes for a ball playing CB or somebody going to anchor a midfield not an 8. Arsenal are a team mainly about energy and short passing not going long.
 
marktan said:
Nkunku plays either on the left or as a forward. Havertz is a leftie.

And there's no guarantee Nkunku is going to be any good. Scoring goals for Leipzig in the Bundesliga means little these days.
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We are shifting our general play from slow possession based system into fast transition based system.Our slow players are moved out from the team. Nkunku fit in well I think if we play quicker transition based system.

Most transfers from last winter window players have pace as their general character. Will see how we will shape up. But we will be alright in my opinion coming season.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
To me seems like EPL proven transfer has less risk. Edu paid £34m for Vieira and it didn't work well so far.
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What does EPL proven even mean? Is it just that he has played a number of games in the EPL? The other players you mentioned (Jesus, Zinchenko and Trossard) were good business because they had proven to be really good in the EPL. I don't think Havertz has.
 
marktan said:
Nkunku plays either on the left or as a forward. Havertz is a leftie.

And there's no guarantee Nkunku is going to be any good. Scoring goals for Leipzig in the Bundesliga means little these days.
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Not just his goals, I feel watching his overall game we may finally have the gamechanging forward we've missed since Hazard. Ofcourse I should probably be more cautious with our recent record but it was it is.

Ofcourse no cast iron guarantee, but neither is Havertz getting back the form he shown under Tuchel let alone at Levekusen.
 
Mike Smalling said:
What does EPL proven even mean? Is it just that he has played a number of games in the EPL? The other players you mentioned (Jesus, Zinchenko and Trossard) were good business because they had proven to be really good in the EPL. I don't think Havertz has.
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It means these players had played in EPL and the managers have good knowledge the way they played in this league. There is no need to bed in for a new league. Havertz played 3 years in EPL. He is EPL proven. To you he is proven to be failure in EPL.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
It means these players had played in EPL and the managers have good knowledge the way they played in this league. There is no need to bed in for a new league. Havertz played 3 years in EPL. He is EPL proven. To you he is proven to be failure in EPL.
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That definition just means very little to me. Every single player in the league with 2-3 seasons under their belt is EPL proven then.

Not a failure, necessarily. Just not someone I'd wanna spend that kind of money on. Especially when he doesn't seem to fill a specific gap in the team.
 
That's a lot of money for a player that hasn't exactly set the world on fire.
 
Havertz seems to raise his game in UCL play, or his style of play is less easily guarded by other leagues. If I were an Arsenal fan I truly would look forward to that. When we bought him, most people billed him as a generational talent. He has been good, but not great in league play and better in cups.
 
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