That's a cool tool. What site is it from?
Dimitar Berbatov | 2010/11 Performances
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That's a cool tool. What site is it from?
It's stretching the limits of sanity to say Berba changed the game when he came on. He played a brillaint cameo but it was Rooney excellent free kick and brilliant touch and shot for the second goal which changed the tide. Berba did not play any part in the first 3 goals. What he did do was some fantastic play and touches on another day would have resulted in a goal but it was a Rooney tour de force - just as Berba did againt Liverpool - Rooney did against West Ham - they stepped up when we needed them the most.
The main difference I would say with this year and the last two for Berba is that now I expect him to score when before I would have thought not.
It's clear he is playing further forward - he has 20 goals and 3 assists? when over the last 2 seasons he has had 10 plus assists.
The main difference I would say with this year and the last two for Berba is that now I expect him to score when before I would have thought not.
It's clear he is playing further forward - he has 20 goals and 3 assists? when over the last 2 seasons he has had 10 plus assists.
ESPN match reports, click on the Gamecast tab.
Unfair? It was disgraceful ! He was blamed for everything! Just as well he'd scored 20 before the tsunami in Japan or he'd have been blamed for that too.
Amazing how short some of your memories are really. If I had the inclination I would go back into some of the threads and find some of the worst ones.
Did Rooney go wide left when Berbatov subbed on?
Or was it something like Rooney/Hernandez up top and Berbatov just behind?
Or was it something like Rooney/Hernandez up top and Berbatov just behind?
Watching the game again on MUTV. Berbatov was fecking brilliant. All the haters can feck off, I'm delighted we get to see him in a United shirt.
Because he was made out to be far worse than he actually was in those 2 seasons. He wasn't as good in those first seasons as we'd hoped, but he was nowhere near as bad as some people were saying. He was used as a scapegoat constantly. He was good in a lot of games, didn't score enough, but didn't go ages and ages without a goal either. He did ok. There's a difference between not doing as good as we'd hoped and doing absolutely terribly. He clearly wasn't terrible.
People were just using his price tag as a stick to beat him with, constantly. No, he wasn't a £30million striker but we knew he wasn't from Day 1. He's never been a £30million striker, Spurs ripped us off a bit and we all knew that. Nevermind, he wasn't awful even if he wasn't reaching his potential, and this season he's come good.
Bingo
And as an experienced player in the Premier League at his age, we expected a lot more. He dissapointed
Not this season. And yet he's not starting at the moment because of other options
That's football
*twiddling thumbs*
Err, what? He was evidently much further forward yesterday than his average position for his first two seasons.
EDIT: Average positions:
Sigh, why do people put any stock in these silly tools?
What does that actually tell you about the game? If Berbatov tracks back to help his defenders out, that distorts his 'average position', its a ridiculously pointless stat! Hernandez played off the shoulder of the last defender as he always does, Berbatov evidently played deeper for the last 25, and yet he shows up as further ahead on your diagram! Silly nonsense. Look at Giggs average position, and he was winger for half the game and left back for the other!
Bit uneccessary that...
Feeky is the caf resident stato, especially when it comes to Berba. The naked eye knows nothing in Feeky's book.
Fair play to you though Feeky, you do do your homework, and some...
Several years ago, I remember watching Utd in the Champions League and a stat popped up stating Beckham had covered 9.2 kilometers during the game.
The commentator said "I don't know what that's trying to say, he's had a very quiet game".
I prefer to watch the game as well rather than the HT/FT stats otherwise you'd think Kevin Nolan is fourth best striker in the Premier League.
Perhaps it was trying to say that the distance he had covered was 9.2km. Unless what popped up was "Beckham has covered 9.2km, what a great player eh? Must mean he had grapefruit for breakfast too". Stats only mean what you read into them. Also, Johnno - Kevin Nolan is a midfielder. But, reading into that, you must mean that there's more to a striker than goals? Which doesn't particularly fit into quite a few of your positions of Berba, particularly your frothing derision of his periods without a goal when he was still playing quite well.
Also, Brad, that's the average touch position, so it wouldn't be particularly distorted by tracking back. I've watched the game back and it's clear that Berba played well up the park after coming on, certainly our most advanced player, something which he clearly wasn't during our first two seasons.
And Sharky, to say the naked eye knows nothing in my book is incorrect, and a bit insulting and dismissive really. In fact, I'd say I've used my naked eye quite a bit more than some in this thread who've simply panned Berba's first two seasons as poor or worse than poor, speaking in generalities and stuttering when questioned on specifics.
Also, Brad, that's the average touch position, so it wouldn't be particularly distorted by tracking back. I've watched the game back and it's clear that Berba played well up the park after coming on, certainly our most advanced player, something which he clearly wasn't during our first two seasons.
And Sharky, to say the naked eye knows nothing in my book is incorrect, and a bit insulting and dismissive really. In fact, I'd say I've used my naked eye quite a bit more than some in this thread who've simply panned Berba's first two seasons as poor or worse than poor, speaking in generalities and stuttering when questioned on specifics.
The stat said he covered 9.2 km, so what? What good is that to United if he hadn't actually done anything in the game? Beckham's job was to pass and cross and alright he did have good games where he didn't do this, where he might have tracked back and got stuck in instead, but this PARTICULAR game against whoever it was, he was below average.
What I'm pointing out here wee Sean is your over-reliance on stats; you're justifying to me and Brad that due to his minutes, his positioning, his assists, his goals as a whole etc that he has been nothing but successful since arriving and it's completely not true.
He came on yesterday and had a good game against a tired West Ham defence; that was the ploy, using his capabilities to exploit West Ham at a time when they'd become frail.
But he didn't change the game, Wayne Rooney changed the game - this is no slander on Berbatov, he had a good game but it was clearly Wayne Rooney who turned that game upside down in our favour.
As for the Kevin Nolan statement, I'm fully aware he's a midfielder - I'm saying as he's fourth top scorer in the Prem, if you shown a Harvard scholar them stats without him knowing much about football, he'd tell you Nolan is the fourth top striker in the league. Show someone who knows about football and they'd tell you it's bizarre to see a midfielder like him high up that list, and whilst it's not unusual to see MF's high on the list like Ronaldo and Lampard in recent years, this is usually because they're close to or above twenty goals.
In summary, stats don't always paint a true reflection of real life brother, stop relying on them so dearly...
TV broadcasts show the ground players have covered all the time, they don't try to paint a picture with the stats or suggest it means a player has played well, they just present the distance covered and the team average, so what? Johnno you're so patronising in your posts it sometimes beggars belief.
You mean as opposed to posts similar to MG's; "I can't wait to see Johnno's stupid responses" and those within a similar vein, Nicholas?
I'm aware the TV shows little blue lines, red dots etc and they also show how many shots a player has had and off target and all that.
Utd had 16 corners to nil or something, whoopty-do! How many of them corners produced a goal? Again, looking at those stats it might read United were all over West Ham all game...we weren't.
This what I'm saying boys, stats are generally insignificant bits of trivia, the actual live action is well more indicative for me.
Jesus christ, all it shows is the distance a player has covered, it's something UEFA tend to do. I don't think anyone would try to argue that Beckham had a good game based on that stat. It can of course be useful, like when someone claimed a while back that Carrick was lazy and he wouldn't be surprised if he covered the least amount of distance on the pitch for us apart from Edwin, I was able to tell him that Carrick in fact has covered the more distance than any other United player in 6 of his 7 Champions League appearances this season.
The rest of your post is bizarre, if they knew nothing about football I doubt they'd be using phrases like 'striker'. Kevin Nolan has had an excellent season. Goalscoring has always been a facet of his game, he's stepped it up in the last couple of seasons in a more attacking role - he had 17 goals in the Championship last year. By memory he's had a couple of penalties as a part of his 12 this season too as Newcastle tend to rotate their takers.
I've also never said Berbatov has been "nothing but successful since coming here", you're putting words into my mouth in order to make your argument easier, which is something you do a lot of, as well as manage to be incredibly patronising in your posts, something which you haven't particularly earned as you've been quite shit on your posting on this subject.
MG did't say 'stupid response', she just said response. I also don't see what that has to do with what I said, but hey ho.
Whether you are interested in stats or not, to pick up on the Beckham distance covered thing is bizarre, the way you told it was as if the broadcaster had shown it for him and him alone in some desperate attempt to paint him in a good light, when in actual fact it was probably shown for a lot of players in the same game as it used to be very regularly. Plenty of people find stats interesting, and enjoy discussing them, it doesn't make them any less knowledgeable than you, in spite of what you might think.
So you're agreeing a stat showing Beckham running a lot is useless but the same stat for Carrick is enlightening to show others he's not lazy?
Hmmm...
And you're again missing my point child, Nolan is clearly NOT the fourth best attacking player, midfield or centre-forward in England, is he? That's actually an opinion but I'm sure one which the majority will share.
And why am I patronising you, is it because I call you Sean? You call me Johnno, why can't I call you by your proper title.
Mutual respect and all that, not that I've gotten any - I disagree with the mainstream opinion that Berbatov is a successful United player and whilst he's had a much better season, there have still been games I think he's been less than average and also think he's not a right fit for our best line-up and formation.
Tie me to a post and burn me for heresy!!!
We were better but were we that much better first half (as I should have pointed out, I meant ALL game as in first half inclusive, not in summary).
West Ham could have been three up by HT, of course we had one or two chances ourselves but they had the more clean-cut culminating in their penalties.
Every footballer in the world will have some poor games in a season unless they're Messi or Ronaldo.
Berbatov has played well in the majority of his games this season. What's the point in bringing up a couple of games he's been poor in when they pale into insignificance compared to his good games?
Clutching. At. Straws.
I've never said any of you know any more or less than me at any time, I simply have a differing opinion and I've been shot down for it so in fact I'm the one who's been told I know FA about football, I'm sure if I could be bothered I'd find a post saying or suggesting at least this.
Is that a fair comment?
I also will use stats if I deem them appropriate but I think Feeky (and others, not just him) have taken it to the extreme to the point of gratuity so it appears they completely rely on them as a basis for opinion.
Using the Beckham field coverage is purely as example of bollocks stats, completely pointless as I find Berbatov's positioning on the field, I don't see what that's trying to prove.
I like his new haircut.
Suits him!
Suits him!
What did you think of Berbatov's performance on Saturday?
Yeah a few, not months and months of them.
I have stated several times he has been good this season but there were patches of indifference and poor games for several matches in two elongated periods this season, players having great seasons do not have long patches of average games and no goals as he did.
But he has been much better and has had good some very good periods too of course, but not overall all season.
Probably that it was shit because he didn't get a hatrick like Rooney.
Berbatov has to score at least 3 goals in a game before Johnno will even concede he's been 'sort of ok'.
As I've already said mate, I thought he hd a good game when he came in and was used effectively against a tiring West Ham defence.
Not at all, that's not true at all - I just don't praise him as being amazing and changing the game for one exciting run and shot which went wide as 'changing the game'.
So he was only effective because their defence was tiring? There's always something to detract isn't there?
edit:
Bloody hell, that's all he did in your eyes?
edit:
Bloody hell, that's all he did in your eyes?
I think he played well. Good touch and control, usual swagger, seemed to work well with both Rooney and Hernandez on the pitch. The only thing he did to irritate me was not square the ball to Hernandez straight after Rooney's penalty from kick off.
I can see why many don't like him and I do think he is a luxury player. Very talented though.
They were clearly tiring, hence the ball going through Da Costa's legs for the fourth and Upson, who was good in the first half and most of the second, flapping for the second and for the penalty.
This wasn't Berbatov's fault, he used it very effectively and attacked them, running at them which is something I think he should do more of because he's a very good dribbler and deceptively quick, this was making the most of his attributes to benefit us as per why Fergie brought him on.
No, what I said was that you wouldn't try to argue that someone had a good game on the basis of distance covered (at least on it's own), but it would be useful specifically on the topic of distance covered. Try to read what I have actually said, and not what you want me to have said so it's easier to dismiss.
No, Nolan is not, I don't think anyone has attempted to argue that. Again, you're inventing arguments. He has probably been in or around the top 5 attacking midfielders in the league this season. I would challenge you to find a single post of mine which claims that stats are the be all and end all.
I didn't say you were patronising because of calling me by my name. I called you Johnno because it seemed to be what you answer to on this site, I believe it was your former username? Your whole tone comes across as patronising, using words like "wee" and "love", it's not a big deal but it kind of comes across as Billy Big Bollocks when you don't particularly have the knowledge to back it up.
He is, right now, a successful United player. To argue anything else, largely based on the earlier part of his United career is a little bizarre, and smacks of someone who is desperate not to be proven wrong.
No, but that's why he's amazing in YOUR eyes and the countless other smitten kittens who justify his time with us as incredible based on these little incidents which have been few and far between.
So now you've taken to telling me what I think? I officially give up with this BS.
You're just inventing reasons to criticise him now. The periods weren't that long and he had good performances in that time. Most of our other players have gone on far longer indifferent periods this season.
Berbatov is the main reason we're top of the league.
I think it's almost solely down to his price tag. Had he cost 10-15m almost everyone would support him IMO.
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