I reckon I could trap a cannon ball fairly easily myself.
It's not gonna bounce far off my foot, no matter how heavy the touch!
Dimitar Berbatov | 2010/11 Performances
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I reckon I could trap a cannon ball fairly easily myself.
It's not gonna bounce far off my foot, no matter how heavy the touch!
I'd say most of it was wildly over the top and stank of a personal agenda against him. I realise it's hypocritical for me to lambaste posters with personal agendas but I really cannot understand this one.
Depends if its coming at you with pace or not!
I rarely have any time for these 'personal agenda' claims though evra. You forget the criticism was widespread, it was mostly fair rather than hysteric, and the obvious one - why would United fans have a personal agenda against their own player?
It was based on form, and his form wasn't good enough, certainly on a consistent basis
You say that so matter-of-factly and I couldn't disagree more, his form and overall contribution since he arrived has been good. Even the best players have bad games here and there but I don't think Berba has had any more than most players in the squad.
It disappoints me that he doesn't start games like that, he deserves to off the back of the season he's had.
The fact that Rooney has, as predicted hit his best form again means he just can't get started when we go 4-5-1 unfortunately.
The fact that Rooney has, as predicted hit his best form again means he just can't get started when we go 4-5-1 unfortunately.
I say it matter of factly because 1) its accurate, and 2) its a consensus view for most. He wasn't having bad games here and there, he was having good moments inbetween lots of poor games. And notably for a striker, not scoring enough. He's done something to alter the former, and been even more dramatic in altering the latter
He's not getting in the starting line up when we go 4-4-2 either cina. Nothing to do with Rooney's form, more to do with the option of Hernandez and the threat he carries, which is far more suited to the traditional style of United play
I don't think that's a fair assessment of his form since he's been at utd. In his first two seasons he played in a deeper role with another striker ahead of him. His role was mainly a creative one and he was very useful in the build up play, even if you disregard the reasonable amount of goals and assists that he contributed. He has played the majority of the season in an advanced role and as a consequence is getting more goalscoring chances, he's now the top scorer in the league.
See, this for me is part of the history rewrite I don't like
You obviously don't see it that way, we shall have to beg to differ
I think he's upped his game, and that's the reason he's had a better season
That's my point though Brad, I'm saying he should be starting 4-4-2s because of his form, and because he just won't get started in the 4-5-1s.
I think Chico offers loads, of course he does, BUT when we go 4-4-2 and we have a (generally) average midfield on our hands, Berbatov is great to have on the pitch cause he's just so damn good at holding onto the ball and feeding it to others.
I don't think you can argue against Hernandez starting ahead of Berbatov at the moment
The latter is top scorer in the league, yet Javier's strike rate per minutes played is better than Berbatov's. And he was the real reason the game changed today, the threat in behind West Ham pulled them deeper
I think both have their arguments for sure. What I would say is that Hernandez is more effective than Berb is after 60 minutes when teams are worn down, which I think is why he hasn't started sometimes. Berbatov is a safer option to play from the start, for me anyway.
Saying that, an in form Rooney and Hernandez is a scary combo, and could be for the next 5 years at least
He's sexual, i really we offer him a new contract.
I thought we did? or was that just a rumour?
Thing is, he's 30, and we're playing him as a sub after arguably his best season. He may not actually want a new contract.
I've been very critical of Rio's tweets but I enjoyed this one:
rioferdy5 Berbatov is oozing #silks ! Sleeves rolled up Socks down and pure stud use when he came on, manipulating the ball at will!!
rioferdy5 Berbatov is oozing #silks ! Sleeves rolled up Socks down and pure stud use when he came on, manipulating the ball at will!!
Rio's tweets can be idiotic at times, but he does know his football and will generally praise a Utd player who has played well but maybe been under appreciated.
He's done it with Nani a few times this season, if I recall correctly.
He's done it with Nani a few times this season, if I recall correctly.
I thought Berba changed the game today along with the runs and movement of Hernandez. He allowed the ball to be kept in the final third for longer periods than Wazza had managed to all game up until then (not a slant on Rooney as the midfield offered nothing to help him) but I just think the momentum really swung in our favour when we had all3 of them on the pitch.
Berba is just so fecking good on the ball a lot of the time. His first touch is consistently the best since Zidane.
Berba is just so fecking good on the ball a lot of the time. His first touch is consistently the best since Zidane.
Yup. And Carrick.
On one hand I feel it was Berbatov that changed the game for us today but I did find it frustrating that after our third goal it looked like he couldn't be bothered anymore - he'd only been on the pitch 15 minutes!!
Personally I cant see why he's found himself out of favour because for me his worst games this season came during his goal drought between the Liverpool hat-trick game and when he scored 5 against Blackburn. Following his two goals against Blackpool away he's only started Villa at home, Wolves away, Marseille away and Liverpool away. Of course it could just be a case of him being rested against Wigan away which has proved to have a negative effect due to the partnership that has formed between Rooney and Hernandez leaving Fergie to prefer those two when we go 4-4-2.
I'd like to see Berbatov starting more games in the coming weeks but it is hard to argue with the Rooney/Hernandez partnership as well. Christ knows which is gonna be best to face Chelsea....
Personally I cant see why he's found himself out of favour because for me his worst games this season came during his goal drought between the Liverpool hat-trick game and when he scored 5 against Blackburn. Following his two goals against Blackpool away he's only started Villa at home, Wolves away, Marseille away and Liverpool away. Of course it could just be a case of him being rested against Wigan away which has proved to have a negative effect due to the partnership that has formed between Rooney and Hernandez leaving Fergie to prefer those two when we go 4-4-2.
I'd like to see Berbatov starting more games in the coming weeks but it is hard to argue with the Rooney/Hernandez partnership as well. Christ knows which is gonna be best to face Chelsea....
I've been saying this for weeks, either one of Berba or Rooney with Hernandez works better, hell even both of them today with Hernandez helps. The type of players that Berba and Rooney are just love to have a player like Hernandez dragging defenders left, right and centre.
For me Hernandez has to start as many games as possible, whether his partner is Rooney or Berbatov, or both doesn't matter.
For me Hernandez has to start as many games as possible, whether his partner is Rooney or Berbatov, or both doesn't matter.
Played a big part yesterday to turn around the game, and IMHO, he should have started the games / start more games
Oh he was brilliant when he came on. His touches and his play were...ugh...out of this world. He really is a different class to most other mortals in that respect.
Question is how is that best utliised.
Question is how is that best utliised.
This is why you think people are rewriting history regarding Berbatov - you're writing it wrong in the first place! It's plainly clear that both Berbatov and Hernandez made a large positive difference to our game when they came on yesterday. You only need to watch Rooney's post game interview, read Rio's tweets, or checkout the MOTM thread to see that a fair number of people listed Berbatov among our top 3 players despite him getting less than 30 mins on the pitch. Can you honestly say that you feel 100% objective when discussing this topic?
I seriously don't understand why we can't play all three. Rooney and Berbatov could easily play in the middle of the park if needed. Rooney usually does anyway. I do think that Rooney will eventually become a CM. When all 3, Berbatov, Hernandez and Rooney were on the pitch we were superb.
Of course it's objective. Could you for a second cotton on that as a United fan, I don't have anything against the players that clouds my judgement. In fact of the three strikers, its Rooney I have an issue with for his conduct a few months back. Is there an agenda influencing my reading of his game? No, there isn't. It's a shame to 'defend' Berbatov, folk resort to this line of retort, but its very common sadly
My comment on his performance was thus:
And you're trying to make out I can't be objective on Berbatov and that I'm rewriting history? What would you have liked me to write after the game then?!
I don't care about Rooney's interview, I don't care about Rio's tweets, I don't even care about the MotM thread. I'll judge a performance on what I see on the pitch. Berbatov was fantastic when he came on, everything came off, and it all looked so effortless. If you're asking me what changed the game though, it was Hernandez coming on, putting them under pressure from the off, forcing them back and creating more space for our midfield to play. We battered them second half, and the goals were coming. That threat from Hernandez is the reason he is being preferred to Berbatov at the moment. Unless of course you'd like to accuse Ferguson of having an agenda / unable to be objective...
Personally found Berbatov more effective yesterday, although it was great to have Hernandez on and keep their defence back.
You don't like Berbatov much, do you BC?
Seems to me that there are a fair few here who should hang their heads in shame for the vicious lambasting Berba got in his first two years here. It was hardly fair even if he didn't perhaps play to his full potential at times.
I actually do. I love a player who makes it all look so effortless. Flip side is when he doesn't perform, it's that much more frustrating to watch. I'm delighted for him this season though, he stepped it up a notch like he had too, and you cannot knock being Premier League top scorer, its a fantastic achievement and I hope he retains it til the end of the season
I also struggle to argue with the way Ferguson has used him the last month or so though, with the options available
Do give over EricaWhy was it unfair?
Berbatov came in as a signing that was expected to make an impact on the first team straight away or atleast within a few months. He wasn't young and expected to take time to settle like Nani, Anderson, Ronaldo, Rooney etc. He was an experienced player who had done well in the Prem before hand. So in that respect I think it was entirely reasonable to criticize him for his performances in the first 2 seasons.
People are all too quick to handily label his first 2 seasons as simply bad, it's too easy. I remember at several various points after about his first 3 months, where I heard: "now we're seeing the real Berbatov, this is why we bought him, etc." The revisionism is especially bizarre regarding his second season, where he was very good up until Rooney's injury, had a poor last 8 games or so and that's what his season was remembered for.
Now we have a situation where people are so annoyed that he's proving them wrong (those who wanted him sold in particular), that they are pretty much inventing reasons to have a go at him. It's all a bit sad really.
Interesting to note that in Tévez's first season, which is generally regarded as a success, he created or scored every 134 minutes, whilst Berbatov's first season, which is generally regarded as a failure, he created or scored every 135 minutes. Who knew the cut-off point for a successful season was to create or score every 134 minutes and one second?
Now we have a situation where people are so annoyed that he's proving them wrong (those who wanted him sold in particular), that they are pretty much inventing reasons to have a go at him. It's all a bit sad really.
Interesting to note that in Tévez's first season, which is generally regarded as a success, he created or scored every 134 minutes, whilst Berbatov's first season, which is generally regarded as a failure, he created or scored every 135 minutes. Who knew the cut-off point for a successful season was to create or score every 134 minutes and one second?
TBH you are the one inventing stuff.
If you've read the last page he's pretty much received praise from everyone.
However I don't get why his good form this season should make criticism of him in his first two seasons unjustified. He was poor in those seasons and was rightly criticized. It has nothing to do with his form this year. Actually I have no idea how we got to talking about his first two seasons anyway.
Because the last page discusses pretty much solely yesterday's match. I was talking about the season in general, during which, bizarrely, he's continued to get a lot of stick.
And saying he was poor for those two seasons, is laughably simplistic, in fact, a bit laughable in general really.
And saying he was poor for those two seasons, is laughably simplistic, in fact, a bit laughable in general really.
This would be my view too
But there were always those who bizarrely cried 'agenda' and refused to admit he'd been sub par those first two seasons. They're still notable even now when he's having a far superior season. It's not always easy to read through Johnno's posts about Berbatov these days, but I find it just as difficult if not more reading these folk who had their heads between their arses for two seasons and are now intent on history rewriting
His first two seasons he never had a full pre season with us, was carrying an injury and was just widely unlucky.
His perfomances this year haven't been much difference. His goal ratio has.
Yes, I remember a lot of this talk at the time
And maybe there was a lot in it
Equally, maybe he just wasn't performing as he ought too
Regardless, clearly the performances weren't there, not consistantly. I think he's done much better with that this season, bar the 10 game spell after Liverpool, but obviously the notable difference is his goal haul. He's been far more willing to get himself in the box, and get a shot away on goal this season. He's also been more clinical. It's great to see
I'm amazed that people can have followed Berbatov's career at United and not see he's playing in a more advanced role this season than he was throughout most of the previous two.
He wasn't particularly playing further forward yesterday and he was excellent
Even in deeper roles he still needed to be getting into the box and wasn't doing enough
Some of the games where he was lone frontman or in a more forward role the last two years were some of his most dire
Thankfully, all of this has improved markedly. It needed too. And we're all (give or take Johnno) delighted with the results
And yet he still isn't in the team. Which says a lot for our other options. Maybe he needed this genuine competition for his place all along
Even in deeper roles he still needed to be getting into the box and wasn't doing enough
Some of the games where he was lone frontman or in a more forward role the last two years were some of his most dire
Thankfully, all of this has improved markedly. It needed too. And we're all (give or take Johnno) delighted with the results
And yet he still isn't in the team. Which says a lot for our other options. Maybe he needed this genuine competition for his place all along
Err, what? He was evidently much further forward yesterday than his average position for his first two seasons.
EDIT: Average positions:
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