Dimitar Berbatov | 2010/11 Performances

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Legendz said:
Ah Commadus, I remember you from the noobs and your Berba hating ways.

Anyway - if this, 21 (?) goals, the leagues top goal scorer, hattrick against Liverpool - and us being top of the league, Semi's of the FA cup and 1/4 of the CL - is down to Berbatov having a bad season, not being good enough, not scoring enough etc then I hope he has one next year as well.

In fact, I hope all our players have bad seasons next year. We'll probably win everything.
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Have you read my posts in this thread? Arguing against SR? Posting in support of Berba?

Seems its you who can't change your tune.

But just some snippets.

https://www.redcafe.net/f6/berbatov-2010-2011-a-270313/index196.html#post9466708

Berbatov has had a top season so far and even though I thought he should have started against Bolton SAF made the right call in bringing him on for his height at corners - something which I have banged on about.

https://www.redcafe.net/f6/berbatov-2010-2011-a-270313/index196.html#post9466849

Even in the games he did not score he was still contributing - perhaps not in terms of goals or assists but with Rooney off form we were relying on Berba on a fair few occassions.
 
TheMancRedDevil said:
Well, it does look like he's on his way, doesn't it? And why? Because he's not been considered good enough to play in those games.

I'm not agreeing with Commadus' methods here, just pointing out that there is a point to what he is saying.

For stat purposes, however, I think it's commonly accepted that only games when the player takes part should be counted.

Perhaps a better method would be to count the minutes (of actual playing time) that made up the goal-drought?
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Not acceptable. It'll make Berbatov's recent nine game drought look quite modest. Can't have that.
 
KM said:
It has to do feck all with facts.

I can give several reasons why Berba was brought on in that match and none of them was due to his impact as a sub

1) It was imperative to give Macheda full 90 mins
2) We were winning the match comfortably and since Rooney was injured at that time, Fergie didn't wanna risk Berbatov in that match.

You are embarrassing yourself in this thread.
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Not as much as you. Those are your opinions not facts.

I posted facts about Berba scoring winners etc but as they were complimentary nothing much was said about them but if I post something that you see as a negative you come crawling of your hole.
 
Commadus said:
Have you read my posts in this thread? Arguing against SR? Posting in support of Berba?

Seems its you who can't change your tune.

But just some snippets.

https://www.redcafe.net/f6/berbatov-2010-2011-a-270313/index196.html#post9466708

Berbatov has had a top season so far and even though I thought he should have started against Bolton SAF made the right call in bringing him on for his height at corners - something which I have banged on about.

https://www.redcafe.net/f6/berbatov-2010-2011-a-270313/index196.html#post9466849

Even in the games he did not score he was still contributing - perhaps not in terms of goals or assists but with Rooney off form we were relying on Berba on a fair few occassions.
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tbf I don't read anything SR ever posts. Pointless.

By the way - My post wasn't completely directed at you - just the first line.
 
Premier League - Player performance indicator


1. Dimitar Berbatov - Man Utd - 537

2. Florent Malouda - Chelsea - 505

3. Nemanja Vidic - Man Utd - 459

4. Carlos Tevez - Man City - 458

5. Luis Nani - Man Utd - 445

6. Kevin Nolan - Newcastle - 419

7. Dirk Kuyt - Liverpool - 411

8. Patrice Evra - Man Utd - 409

9. Wayne Rooney - Man Utd - 408

10. Gareth Bale - Tottenham - 401
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Official Site of the Premier League - Barclays Premier League News, Fixtures and Results | <no headline>

Premier League - Top Scorers

1. Dimitar Berbatov - Man Utd - 20

2. Carlos Tevez - Man City - 18

3. Darren Bent - Aston Villa - 11

4. Andrew Carroll - Liverpool - 11

5. Kevin Nolan - Newcastle - 11

6. Robin Van Persie - Arsenal - 11

7. Clint Dempsey - Fulham - 10

8. Didier Drogba - Chelsea - 10

9. Javier Hernandez - Man Utd - 10

10. Peter Odemwingie - WBA - 10
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:)
 
Commadus said:
What's ridiculous is you trying to frig the stats. He was on the teamsheet as a sub in a home UCL game against Bursapor. The fact he didnt play was as much to do with his impact as a sub.
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You're talking bollocks mate, I'd quit while you're behind
 
KingEric7 said:
This simply did not happen. Until about this time that year, Ronaldo was very poor in many matches. I think I'm right in saying that Berbatov and Ronaldo's goal tallys at this point were comparable, yet Berbatov does not take penalties and has had a greater overall contribution. Berbatov has been better up to this point - I don't think that's up for debate. However, we're yet to see if he can step on the pedal like Ronaldo did at the end of that season.

To be honest, reading on, I disagree with just about everything you have said here! Ronalo had an incredible season in 07/08, but he did not put in 8,9,10/10 performances at a consistent rate. He did that the season before, which was, without any shadow of a doubt whatoever, far, far superior to his season in 08/09. I'm surprised the comparison has even been drawn, though I'm guessing the goal tallies are similar.

He was nothing like the same player. Far more creative and explosive, yet with a similar goal tally. He was absolutely fecking amazing.

I'm not sure the Ronaldo we saw 2 years later was as arsed as that one up until the latter stages of the season (when the transfer window was coming round).
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We'll have to agree to disagree, I have come up with a completely different conclusion based on the same facts. I agree that Ronaldo took until Oct to really start firing, but criticising him for Aug/Sept when he barely played through injury is beyond harsh.

Again I think he just cut out a lot of the showboating (which was a bit of a shame) which is skewing opinion, but his effectiveness was the same if not better than before his 42 goal season. The awards he recieved backs up this opinion.

evra said:
That's very gracious of you to offer such hearty praise to the top scorer in the league. I wonder how many goals he would have had to score by now to move from "decent good" all the way to just good, 30?
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I don't judge performances based on just what is down on paper. If I did Valdes/Pique would probably be the best keeper/defender in the world and Carrick would probably be the best midfielder due to pass completion %.

If you watch him every week he has had a decent-good season, if you go back the last 10-15 years and pick the performances of our strikers I think you'd agree that he hasn't been great over the season. Look from Cantona to Solskjaer to Cole, to Yorke, to Ruud, to Ronaldo, to Rooney for a great season, can you really say he's having a great season in comparison? Or is he just having a decent-good season by the high standards our strikers have set over the years?

/edit: Example: Sheringham was our top goalscorer 00-01, but I didn't think he had a great season that year. He was good, on occasion very good, but overall not great.

TheMancRedDevil said:
Why do people seem to take criticism of a player so personally?

At the end of the day, you're allowed to think a player is the dog's bollocks and someone else is allowed to think that they're not all that.

In the case of Berbatov, people haven't just woken up one day and thought, "I know, I think I'll just pick on Berbatov for a laugh". These opinions do seem to be largely rooted in the Berbatov that we saw for much of his first two seasons and it is difficult to shake them off.

This season, he HAS been better. Miles better. But, for me, he still doesn't absolutely convince me.

If we were playing a game and there was fifteen minutes to play and we were 1-0 down and you needed a draw to win the league, who would you rather bring on? Rooney, Berbatov or Hernandez? (just pretend that there's some weird starting line-up going on with the game and all three of those are on the bench).

For me, despite Berba's goalscoring record this season, I would still go Rooney, Hernandez, Berbatov - in that order and it is largely down to my view that you never quite know what you're going to get with Berba whereas you usually do with the other two.

It's perhaps an unfair assessment of Berba and I am not quite sure what it is that I expect of him - perhaps too much. He's almost too good for his own good because when he's shit, there's no excuse for it because we all know what he can do. We tend to make allowances for lesser players. Berba gets no lee-way whatsoever.
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Spot on.
 
finneh said:
I don't judge performances based on just what is down on paper. If I did Valdes/Pique would probably be the best keeper/defender in the world and Carrick would probably be the best midfielder due to pass completion %.
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It's interesting because all we've heard over the last couple of years is that strikers are judged on goals, that it doesn't matter if he's contributed assists and been very creative in the build-up play because we expect a 1:2 ratio. Now he's got a better goalscoring ratio than one in two and all of a sudden the goalposts have moved.
 
adexkola said:
We had Rooney, Tevez, feck, Berbatov, Macheda playing striker that season, he only played as one in very few games. He played as a winger for us mostly ffs
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No he didn't played as a winger in most of the season, actually it was Rooney who played there at the left side and including Macheda in your argument who only started a grand total of 2 matches in the whole season is a bit stupid.
 
evra said:
It's interesting because all we've heard over the last couple of years is that strikers are judged on goals, that it doesn't matter if he's contributed assists and been very creative in the build-up play because we expect a 1:2 ratio. Now he's got a better goalscoring ratio than one in two and all of a sudden the goalposts have moved.
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Well if other people only judge strikers by goals alone then they can have no argument that Berbatov has been phenomenal. If he scores another 5 goals this season (which is far from unreasonable) he's had a better season for us than:

Cantona ever had
Mark Hughes ever had
Solskjaer ever had
Sheringham ever had
Rooney had apart from last year
Yorke ever had
Cole ever had

I personally don't subscribe to that point of view and judge strikers on performances in conjunction with goals.
 
Well the thing is Berbatov has had a brilliant season, I mean he literally carried our striking force for the first two-three months of this PL Season. With all the controversy surrounding Rooney, Hernandez's settling in period and Owen's injuries, Berbatov carried our striking force.
 
finneh said:
We'll have to agree to disagree, I have come up with a completely different conclusion based on the same facts. I agree that Ronaldo took until Oct to really start firing, but criticising him for Aug/Sept when he barely played through injury is beyond harsh.

Again I think he just cut out a lot of the showboating (which was a bit of a shame) which is skewing opinion, but his effectiveness was the same if not better than before his 42 goal season. The awards he recieved backs up this opinion.



I don't judge performances based on just what is down on paper. If I did Valdes/Pique would probably be the best keeper/defender in the world and Carrick would probably be the best midfielder due to pass completion %.

If you watch him every week he has had a decent-good season, if you go back the last 10-15 years and pick the performances of our strikers I think you'd agree that he hasn't been great over the season. Look from Cantona to Solskjaer to Cole, to Yorke, to Ruud, to Ronaldo, to Rooney for a great season, can you really say he's having a great season in comparison? Or is he just having a decent-good season by the high standards our strikers have set over the years?

/edit: Example: Sheringham was our top goalscorer 00-01, but I didn't think he had a great season that year. He was good, on occasion very good, but overall not great.
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"In 2000–01, Sheringham played some of the best football of his career as he was United's top goalscorer, displacing Dwight Yorke as the preferred first-team player, as well as being voted Player of the Year by both the PFA and FWA"

It's good that you judge players on performances and goals but you don't seem to be a great judge of performances.
 
Criticised last year for not scoring enough goals, top scorer this year, criticised for something else.
 
KM said:
No he didn't played as a winger in most of the season, actually it was Rooney who played there at the left side and including Macheda in your argument who only started a grand total of 2 matches in the whole season is a bit stupid.
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Fair enough on Macheda (how many games did he sub), but he (Ronaldo) was never a striker, he's just a winger forward with a knack for scoring a bucketload of goals. This shouldn't be up for debate
 
adexkola said:
Fair enough on Macheda (how many games did he sub), but he (Ronaldo) was never a striker, he's just a winger forward with a knack for scoring a bucketload of goals. This shouldn't be up for debate
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He started two(one in FA Cup) and had 3 sub appearances.

Regarding Ronaldo, I think you're wrong on this one , Ronaldo was most of the times used as a striker in the 4-5-1 formation.
 
Eyepopper said:
Criticised last year for not scoring enough goals, top scorer this year, criticised for something else.
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In his first season it was his workrate

In his second season it was his goals
and now in this season, it has been lack of scoring in important matches.

feck knows what it will be in his fourth season.
 
KM said:
In his first season it was his workrate

In his second season it was his goals
and now in this season, it has been lack of scoring in important matches.

feck knows what it will be in his fourth season.
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Crazy stuff, since he bailed us out away to Blackburn, just this Saturday against Bolton, v Liverpool back in September.

Just like Carrick, some people will never appreciate the type of player Dimitar Berbatov is. A shame.
 
Eyepopper said:
Criticised last year for not scoring enough goals, top scorer this year, criticised for something else.
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Thing that's pretty much it. The segment that will never warm to Berbatov will always look for some thing to grab on to. If at one moment he isn't scoring match winning goals, then the next it is that he isn't scoring them against the top teams. If it is because he isn't working hard enough and running behind the defenses and at least trying to, the the next is because he doesn't have the pace of Chicha.

It's an argument that can never be settled because in football, you can always find flaws in a player unless they happen to be Messi and if a supporter doesn't like that player, they'll pick away at them as evidence as to why they aren't all that.

The strangest argument that I see is when people outright claim because Berbatov has not started in the last few games, that it unequivocally meant that the manager doesn't have faith in the player, yet you can bet that when Berba goes on a run and Chicha or Rooney end up on the bench, it will be "oh well, they needed a rest" or something like that.

Yes, Berba isn't starting games right now but, isn't it more likely that the boss sees that Rooney/Chicha have a good thing going for now and he is riding that versus losing faith in Berbatov?

The example given earlier regarding if you need a goal to win the championship and have option of Rooney, Chicha or Berba to bring off the bench then who do you bring on? It's a biased hypothetical because the answer right now is Chicha and the poster knows it.

But, what if you give the example of if you are needing to gain a modicum of possession because nothing is sticking to the forwards and if you ride the game out, then who do you bring on?

If the defense is stubborn and you can't get behind them because they are overloading the box - who do you think is better option to provide a bit of magic?

The good thing with these hypothetical scenarios is that we have 3 top strikers that can fit into a multitude of situations and that is great for United.
 
Treble said:
"In 2000–01, Sheringham played some of the best football of his career as he was United's top goalscorer, displacing Dwight Yorke as the preferred first-team player, as well as being voted Player of the Year by both the PFA and FWA"

It's good that you judge players on performances and goals but you don't seem to be a great judge of performances.
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Maybe memory deceives but I honestly don't remember it as a great season, good but not great.
 
Jaap said:
Crazy stuff, since he bailed us out away to Blackburn, just this Saturday against Bolton, v Liverpool back in September.

Just like Carrick, some people will never appreciate the type of player Dimitar Berbatov is. A shame.
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When was this?
 
KM said:
No he didn't played as a winger in most of the season, actually it was Rooney who played there at the left side and including Macheda in your argument who only started a grand total of 2 matches in the whole season is a bit stupid.
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Rooney played left wing for most of the 08/09 season.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
KM said:
Well the thing is Berbatov has had a brilliant season, I mean he literally carried our striking force for the first two-three months of this PL Season. With all the controversy surrounding Rooney, Hernandez's settling in period and Owen's injuries, Berbatov carried our striking force.
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Yes Berba has had an excellent season so far.

First 3 months we played 13 games in EPL - Berba scored 2 winners, Hernadez , Rooney, Nani, Park, Vidic all scored 1 winner. Berba also scored 2 equalisers the same as Nani.

Including CL and CC then Hernandez has 1 addional winner as does Nani.

Period from August 13 to Nov 13 inclusive.
 
Love Berbatov, always have. Love Hernandez. Like Rooney a bit. That being said, I think we should field Berbatov and Rooney upfront when we can. Rooney is on form, Berba always seems to bring something to the game.

I'm not gonna go into stats and performance much. Berba doesn't deserve to be critized much this season. He's been our best performer along with Nani and Vidic. Should we one of the first name on the sheet IMO. No matter how well Hernandez is doing.
 
This thread is getting better and better everyday.
Just in case someone is interested the score today in the Singapore S-league between Geyland United FC and Hoegangbang United FC was 2-1 with Hong scoring twice for the Geys. (No insult intended to any Singaporeans out there.) Thought I'd mention this in case we would like to compare him to the Languid One and some people start running out of ammunition and, God forbid, repeating themselves.
 
Berbatov might be the top scorer in the league, but if you take away all of those goals (and why wouldn't you), his scoring record fecking sucks.

Case closed.
 
KM said:
No he didn't played as a winger in most of the season, actually it was Rooney who played there at the left side and including Macheda in your argument who only started a grand total of 2 matches in the whole season is a bit stupid.
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Rooney played very few games on the left wing. There was the second half against Tottenham and Wigan, and a few Champions League games, but that was pretty much it. Ronaldo did play on the right hand side for most of the season, but his role was far from being that of a player like Valencia or even Nani when they play on the Wing, he was expected to score goals every bit as much, if not more than a player like Berbatov is.
 
Why can't people just accept him? He's a wonderful player and a joy to watch. He's scoring and generally been good to very good in the games he hasn't scored in.

He's had a few games on the bench but that's all the better in my opinion, we have a hectic period and some crunch games on the horizon. A rested Berb could be all the difference between winning and letting it slip.
 
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