Dimitar Berbatov | 2010/11 Performances

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In all honesty I dont think anyone can be blamed for thinking he might be the new Cantona, since Sir Alex was talking up the comparison.
 
Unfortunately, with the international break, I don't expect this to die down. What amazes me is that we are being anal on the performance of the Premiership's leading scorer this season. The lad truly is an exceptional talent and makes football beautiful to watch. He is no Bolt, but he adds many different qualities to the game. Some of us old timers, who btw, have not played FIFA whatever, like to watch players like him.

FFS, don't forget that he is part of a team, that through out the course of a season has its injury troubles, players loosing form, players returning to form, great performances, poor ones, refereeing mistakes etc.

This United team has performed well overall and is top of the league, in the running for the FA Cup and the CL as well. Imho, this is definitely not the best team we have ever had but this makes our accomplishments so far this season, even more exciting. Berba is an integral part of this team and has been one of our key contributors. With all his positives and failings. Just appreciate him for what he is and support him as an United player.

Rant over.
 
evra said:
When we had midfielders like Keane, Robson and Ince, those days are gone.
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It wasn't all about the midfielders. We got away with playing 442 because many other sides also played that way. We could buy the two most robust, energetic, hard-tackling central midfielders around and we'll still struggle against teams that play three in the middle.

Fact is, we'll be playing three in the middle in the majority of our big games for the foreseeable future.
 
Berbatov has done well and he'll get the player of the year award on the back of being the leagues top scorer but he got over half his goals in like 3 games. Hernandez has scored in more games than Berbatov this season. His goal scoring hasn't been as exceptional as it might look, he went like 10 games without a goal at one point then got 5 in one game so it makes his record look like 1 in 2 but its a deceptive stat.
 
Bilbo said:
It wasn't all about the midfielders. We got away with playing 442 because many other sides also played that way. We could buy the two most robust, energetic, hard-tackling central midfielders around and we'll still struggle against teams that play three in the middle.

Fact is, we'll be playing three in the middle in the majority of our big games for the foreseeable future.
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I would have said that Robson,Ince and Keane would thrive in any era particularly the present season.

What we'd all give to have them back:smirk:
 
How many goals does he have to score for people to be happy?

Last two seasons he is criticised for not scoring enough, now he's the top goal scorer in the league and he's still getting stick.

Only on redcafe.
 
Legendz said:
How many goals does he have to score for people to be happy?

Last two seasons he is criticised for not scoring enough, now he's the top goal scorer in the league and he's still getting stick.

Only on redcafe.
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Now he is not scoring against the "right" teams. Sort of. When he does, he won't be scoring the "right" goals. You can see it has started already.

"Pffffttt, anyone could have scored that one."

:lol:

So pathetic.
 
Ixion said:
Berbatov has done well and he'll get the player of the year award on the back of being the leagues top scorer but he got over half his goals in like 3 games. Hernandez has scored in more games than Berbatov this season. His goal scoring hasn't been as exceptional as it might look, he went like 10 games without a goal at one point then got 5 in one game so it makes his record look like 1 in 2 but its a deceptive stat.
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I'm not sure he'll even make the short list.

Vidic, Nani have in my opinion contributed more and should make the short list.

Smalling should make it on the young player of the year list. I reckon Wilshire should win this dong.
 
Sultan said:
I'm not sure he'll even make the short list.

Vidic, Nani have in my opinion contributed more and should make the short list.

Smalling should make it on the young player of the year list. I reckon Wilshire should win this dong.
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Agreed, I'd be extremely shocked if Berba won the POTY award. Nani and Vidic have been far and away our best performers.
 
All this 442 and 451 talk...we need to realise that there was pre Makalele-Mourinho time and post Makalele-Mourinho. Pre MM 442 was the order of the day but since then most top sides in Europe line up as 451.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
I would have said that Robson,Ince and Keane would thrive in any era particularly the present season.

What we'd all give to have them back:smirk:
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Ince? That prick isn't in the same league as Keane or Robson.
 
Going through all of our matches - I have looked at who has scored our first goal, winners and equalisers for the top 4 goal scorers - Berba, Nani, Hernandez and Rooney.I have classed a winner as the single goal - so if we win 3-1 I have not counted our second goal as the winner only when we win by 1 goal.

.......1st goal.....Equaliser....winner
Berba..7............0..............3
Nani....4...........1...............1
Rooney.5...........0...............2
Chicha..6...........1...............5

This is for all competitions

For the EPL only I have then looked at the marginal goal ie if we win 3-0 the first goal is also the winner and if we win 4-2 the third goal we score is the winner - at the margin.

............1st...Equal....Winner
Berba.....7......2.........6
Nani.......3......1.........1
Rooney...3......0..........3
Chicha....6......1..........3
Park.......1.......0.........3
Vidic.......1.......1.........1
Evra........1......0.........1
Owen......0.......1.........0
......................6.........18

P30 W18 D9 with 3 no score draws

Using the same criteria as above for the CL

............1st...Equal....Winner
Berba.....0......0.........0
Nani.......1......0.........1
Rooney...1......0..........1
Chicha....2......0..........2
Fletc.......1.......0.......1
Ando.......1.......1........0
......................1.........5

P8 W5 D3 with 2 no score draws

For FA Cup and Carling Cup


............1st...Equal....Winner
Berba.....0......0.........0
Nani.......0......0.........0
Rooney...0......0..........0
Chicha....0......0..........2
Giggs.......1.......0.......1
Owen.......1.......0........1
Brown.......1.......0........1
Fabio.......1.......0........1
Gibson.....1.......0.........0
Bebe.....1.......0.........0
......................0.........6

P7 w6 L1

Using the marginal criteria as used in the three tables directly above.

............1st...Equal....Winner
Berba.....7......2.........6
Nani.......4......1.........2
Rooney...4......0..........4
Chicha....8......0..........7
 
evra said:
I would love to see the stick Berbatov would be getting if he wasn't top scorer in the league.
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If he was playing exactly the same he would be getting the exact same amount of "stick".

The problem is that not many people can be objective about Berbatov. Whether this is because he is lazy, because his first touch gives people orgasms, because he has the positional sense of a dead camel, because he was so good for Spurs, because of his price tag, because of his incredible ability to keep hold of the ball with no space whatsoever or because Fergie regularly drops him for the big games.

At the end of the day he is an incredibly frustrating player because if he had the consistancy at his best of Ronaldo, Messi, Scholes, Xavi, Iniesta, Lampard, Gerrard, Vidic, Evra etcetc he would be considered one of the top players in the world. The fact however is that in his best season for us he's been:

brilliant - 3-4 times
good - 6-7 times
mediocre - 13-15 times
bad - 6-7 times
really bad - 3-4 times

I think Fergie recognises this, which is why he is often omitted in certain important games. You really can't gamble with such a sporadic spread of performances.
 
finneh said:
If he was playing exactly the same he would be getting the exact same amount of "stick".
The problem is that not many people can be objective about Berbatov. Whether this is because he is lazy, because his first touch gives people orgasms, because he has the positional sense of a dead camel, because he was so good for Spurs, because of his price tag, because of his incredible ability to keep hold of the ball with no space whatsoever or because Fergie regularly drops him for the big games.

At the end of the day he is an incredibly frustrating player because if he had the consistancy at his best of Ronaldo, Messi, Scholes, Xavi, Iniesta, Lampard, Gerrard, Vidic, Evra etcetc he would be considered one of the top players in the world. The fact however is that in his best season for us he's been:

brilliant - 3-4 times
good - 6-7 times
mediocre - 13-15 times
bad - 6-7 times
really bad - 3-4 times

I think Fergie recognises this, which is why he is often omitted in certain important games. You really can't gamble with such a sporadic spread of performances.
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You give your average fan far too much credit here. Goals have an enormous impact on perceived quality - Ronaldo's last season was a testament to that. I mean, apart from about 3 games, his performances were pretty fecking shite, yet you won't hear much said about it now.
 
finneh said:
If he was playing exactly the same he would be getting the exact same amount of "stick".

The problem is that not many people can be objective about Berbatov. Whether this is because he is lazy, because his first touch gives people orgasms, because he has the positional sense of a dead camel, because he was so good for Spurs, because of his price tag, because of his incredible ability to keep hold of the ball with no space whatsoever or because Fergie regularly drops him for the big games.

At the end of the day he is an incredibly frustrating player because if he had the consistancy at his best of Ronaldo, Messi, Scholes, Xavi, Iniesta, Lampard, Gerrard, Vidic, Evra etcetc he would be considered one of the top players in the world. The fact however is that in his best season for us he's been:

brilliant - 3-4 times
good - 6-7 times
mediocre - 13-15 times
bad - 6-7 times
really bad - 3-4 times

I think Fergie recognises this, which is why he is often omitted in certain important games. You really can't gamble with such a sporadic spread of performances.
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Generally, he has been mediocre then, not even good.
 
KingEric7 said:
You give your average fan far too much credit here. Goals have an enormous impact on perceived quality - Ronaldo's last season was a testament to that. I mean, apart from about 3 games, his performances were pretty fecking shite, yet you won't hear much said about it now.
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That is absolute hogwash, Ronaldo was brilliant over his last 2 years (although 07-08 was his best). He did score goals, but over both seasons he single handedly won games when we were playing shit, that was his biggest strength. If you really think he had 3 good games and otherwise was shite I suggest you watch "Premier League years 08-09", it paints an unbelievably different picture.

This is substantiated by him coming second only to Messi in WPotY and the Ballon d'Or.

Treble said:
Generally, he has been mediocre then, not even good.
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For a Man Utd centre forward I'd agree, which is the criteria I used.
 
finneh said:
That is absolute hogwash, Ronaldo was brilliant over his last 2 years (although 07-08 was his best). He did score goals, but over both seasons he single handedly won games when we were playing shit, that was his biggest strength. If you really think he had 3 good games and otherwise was shite I suggest you watch "Premier League years 08-09", it paints an unbelievably different picture.

This is substantiated by him coming second only to Messi in WPotY and the Ballon d'Or.
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Hehe, I watched Ronaldo in the flesh for the majority of his games that year. He was nowhere close to being brilliant. I value that sort of judgement over the Premier League years 08-09 television program (which only shows goals if I remember correctly), and the quite ridiculous World Player of the Year and Ballon D'or awards.

Notice how I comment on the quality of his performances and not the goals. Off the top of my head, I can remember what I would class as quality performances in the Aston Villa game, the Porto game, against Inter Milan and against Arsenal (not 3 but you know what I mean).

He turned it on right at the end of the season, but it was nothing close to the prolificacy of 07/08, or the magic of 06/07. It was an excellent time of the season to come into form, but he was putting in 5/6 out of 10 performances up until that point.

Berbatov has been better this year than Ronaldo that one given the respective points in the seasons.
 
Sultan said:
I'm not sure he'll even make the short list.

Vidic, Nani have in my opinion contributed more and should make the short list.

Smalling should make it on the young player of the year list. I reckon Wilshire should win this dong.
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If we win the title, then I think the prizes should go to Nani and Wilshire.

Given the sheer need in English football for Wilshire to be a success, he is an almost certainty for PFA young POTY and fully deserves it.

Smalling just has not featured enough to be even close to be deserving.
 
This thread is boring now. Just rehashing of the same views from the same people.

After 3 years, we just need to accept that Berbatov is a very important and senior member of our squad and will remain so. He has a very defined role in the squad and performs it well. More so, his personality, attitude and commitment is a managers dream and he gives us options and dimensions that not many others p[layers in the PL can offer.

He has had an excellent year this year and single handedly kept us in touch with Chelsea pre xmas. And with the run in we have, with week after week of intense high pressure games, we will need every ounce of his experience, talent, maturity and commitment to compete on multiple fronts. I for one of delighted that he is with us.
 
sammsky1 said:
This thread is boring now. Just rehashing of the same views from the same people.

After 3 years, we just need to accept that Berbatov is a very important and senior member of our squad and will remain so. He has a very defined role in the squad and performs it well. More so, his personality, attitude and commitment is a managers dream and he gives us options and dimensions that not many others p[layers in the PL can offer.

He has had an excellent year this year and single handedly kept us in touch with Chelsea pre xmas. And with the run in we have, with week after week of intense high pressure games, we will need every ounce of his experience, talent, maturity and commitment to compete on multiple fronts. I for one of delighted that he is with us.
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Aye. He was the only player on the pitch.
 
Yeh, that really undermines the contributions of Nani and Vidic!
 
EricaNo7 said:
he was a wonderful player, unfortunately he played after Robson in his peak and before Keano in his, so he tends to be overlooked, as they were two of the greatest players we ever had, and he just doesn't compare.
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Quite right, he was sandwiched by two of our best ever but he was top.
First black England captain in Sep 1993, hats off...
 
KingEric7 said:
Hehe, I watched Ronaldo in the flesh for the majority of his games that year. He was nowhere close to being brilliant. I value that sort of judgement over the Premier League years 08-09 television program (which only shows goals if I remember correctly), and the quite ridiculous World Player of the Year and Ballon D'or awards.

Notice how I comment on the quality of his performances and not the goals. Off the top of my head, I can remember what I would class as quality performances in the Aston Villa game, the Porto game, against Inter Milan and against Arsenal (not 3 but you know what I mean).

He turned it on right at the end of the season, but it was nothing close to the prolificacy of 07/08, or the magic of 06/07. It was an excellent time of the season to come into form, but he was putting in 5/6 out of 10 performances up until that point.

Berbatov has been better this year than Ronaldo that one given the respective points in the seasons.
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I watched every game that season also and vehemently disgaree with your conclusion. He was putting in 7/8 out of 10 performances every week (with the odd 5-6) and stepped it up to 9's and 10's for the games you mentioned. I think that because the season before he was putting in 8's, 9's and 10's and doing it with a bit more flair some people forget how much of a monster he was in his last season for us (even taking into account his injury which meant he missed Aug/Sept). He was as good in 08/09 as in 06/07, but did it with far less stepovers, outside of the boot balls and "criss-cross" crosses.

To say Berbatov has been better this year vs Ronaldo that year is so outlandish an opinion it could be called a lie.

It seems people rate style over substance often on the Cafe (probably why Berbatov is rated so highly by some).
 
It seems you have a habit of getting up on your high horse.

You criticise Berbatov for his inconsistency but ignore the same of Ronaldo in his last season? He went without a goal in that season for a longer period than Berbatov has this season, and by the same point in the season they'd scored in the exact same number of games.

As for Berbatov being a flat track bully this season...Ronaldo scored against Blackburn, Derby, Everton, West Brom, Stoke, Hull, West Ham, Bolton, Middlesborough, Inter and Liverpool by that point. Any more impressive than Berbatov's this season? I'm not so sure.

Many of the arguments you've applied to Berbatov this season you could apply to Ronaldo that season at this point.
 
Brwned said:
It seems you have a habit of getting up on your high horse.

You criticise Berbatov for his inconsistency but ignore the same of Ronaldo in his last season? He went without a goal in that season for a longer period than Berbatov has this season, and by the same point in the season they'd scored in the exact same number of games.

As for Berbatov being a flat track bully this season...Ronaldo scored against Blackburn, Derby, Everton, West Brom, Stoke, Hull, West Ham, Bolton, Middlesborough, Inter and Liverpool by that point. Any more impressive than Berbatov's this season? I'm not so sure.

Many of the arguments you've applied to Berbatov this season you could apply to Ronaldo that season at this point.
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Don't be daft Brwned, Ronaldo was far more influential in his last season despite ONLY scoring 23 goals that year.
 
Brwned said:
It seems you have a habit of getting up on your high horse.

You criticise Berbatov for his inconsistency but ignore the same of Ronaldo in his last season? He went without a goal in that season for a longer period than Berbatov has this season, and by the same point in the season they'd scored in the exact same number of games.

As for Berbatov being a flat track bully this season...Ronaldo scored against Blackburn, Derby, Everton, West Brom, Stoke, Hull, West Ham, Bolton, Middlesborough, Inter and Liverpool by that point. Any more impressive than Berbatov's this season? I'm not so sure.

Many of the arguments you've applied to Berbatov this season you could apply to Ronaldo that season at this point.
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Ronaldos worst season vs Berbatov best

Didn't Ronaldo come back from an ankle operation during the summer. Rooney injury which was less severe he himself admitted that it took him a long time to recover. Ronaldo started slowly no doubt he was still recuperating.

Still what Ron has done is in the past and what berba is doing now is whats relevant. 20 EPL goals is a big achievement.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
Don't be daft Brwned, Ronaldo was far more influential in his last season despite ONLY scoring 23 goals that year.
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Well, the fact that he scored against Liverpool, Inter, Tottenham, Villa, Porto, Arsenal and City in his last 19 games is where his influence came from that season, which was after this point.

That wasn't the point I was making, it was about the criteria used for some players and not others. You use the fact that Berbatov didn't score in 9 games as some form of proof that he's not top class, that it just wouldn't happen to a top class striker, and yet Ronaldo's gone and out-done that and yet you laud his importance.

Do players having great seasons, as I keep hearing he's having, go seven games without scoring?
Do they go nine games without scoring?

This implies that any player who has a great season can't go 7 games without scoring. Ronaldo went 11. Yet you called him hugely influential. You're changing the argument every time.
 
Brwned said:
It seems you have a habit of getting up on your high horse.

You criticise Berbatov for his inconsistency but ignore the same of Ronaldo in his last season? He went without a goal in that season for a longer period than Berbatov has this season, and by the same point in the season they'd scored in the exact same number of games.

As for Berbatov being a flat track bully this season...Ronaldo scored against Blackburn, Derby, Everton, West Brom, Stoke, Hull, West Ham, Bolton, Middlesborough, Inter and Liverpool by that point. Any more impressive than Berbatov's this season? I'm not so sure.

Many of the arguments you've applied to Berbatov this season you could apply to Ronaldo that season at this point.
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Firstly, Ronaldo may have gone longer without a goal that season than Berbatov has this (I didn't know this but I'll take your word for it). However you clearly fail to recognise that he played as an attacking winger for us, not a centre forward. Also, as someone previously stated, you don't have to play badly just because you don't score, likewise you can score and still play badly (don't spin this).

In all fairness I never referred to Berbatov's scoring against lesser opposition as a bad thing, in my opinion the league title is decided by wins against the lower teams (historically how many times have we won the title after losing to our rivals?). The irk I have with Berbatov is that in the main he plays well when everyone around him is also playing well, he's magical when we're 2-0 up, astounding when we are 3 or 4-1 up, but very often frustrating and lazy at 0-0 or when we're losing 2-1. This is the reverse of what you want in a player.

Ronaldo was the polar opposite, he'd often give a 9 or 10 out of 10 performance when others around him were struggling. Nani and Vidic have been (to a lesser degree) the same this season, they've gotten us out of the mire when I couldn't see a goal coming (or could see us conceding) in 90 hours, let alone minutes.

This season Berbatov has been very inconsistant, but on the whole decent and what is to be expected of a second striker at Man Utd. However to compare Berbatov this season to any one of Ronaldo's last 3 (arguably 4) seasons with us is laughable.

But lets wait until the end of the year and see if he gets the same accolades that Ronaldo won in the comparable year. Or are you another one who thinks even the voters for this award are biased against Berbatov?

Brwned said:
This implies that any player who has a great season can't go 7 games without scoring. Ronaldo went 11. Yet you called him hugely influential. You're changing the argument every time.
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/edit: Vidic is having a terrific season despite scoring only once. I judge every player on performances, not stats.
 
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