Berbatov has been immense this year, I don't understand where all the negativity comes from ? ? ?
Dimitar Berbatov | 2010/11 Performances
- Thread starter Commadus
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First off, Ronaldo was never a striker - he was a winger and he was our most influential player by far, he would take the game by the neck; Cantona was never the most prolific but still the best United player I've seen play, for impassioned inspiring performances, he made the team perform.
Berbatov as a thirty year old experienced two-time CL Final player doesn't lead or take hold of the game.
Yes, which is why I qualified it by saying that Ronaldo's performances - goals aside - weren't significantly better than Berbatov's. I think you'll find more games that Berbatov played well in and didn't score in than you can find for Ronaldo.
I think the awards aren't really based on calendar years but based on reputation (and every 4 years WC performances). Countless examples of that, isn't there? Ronaldo wasn't the second best player in the world in 08/09, that's ridiculous.
I've not said Berbatov this season is better than Ronaldo of 08/09, by the way. You're arguing that with someone else.
Read that over again. It wasn't aimed at you, it wasn't my criteria...none of it is relevant to you. Unless you want to argue with Johnno.
A pity Ferguson obviously doesn't agree with you!
Most of his influence came from his goal threat, he was usually the furthest player forward, and his game was geared around that. He wasn't beating players for fun, providing a constant source of crosses or passes, he was there to get the goals and be the biggest singular threat in the team with other players adapting to help that. I'm not sure Ronaldo and Cantona's attitude are the best comparison, especially Ronaldo's attitude in his last season.
You're changing the argument again though, it wasn't about taking lead or hold of the game before, it was his goal droughts. His unbelievably poor goal droughts. That were bettered by Ronaldo. In a great season.
Something doesn't quite fit there. Try addressing that point rather than creating another.
Are you talking about calendar years or football seasons? You mention the former, but then you mention 08/09. For 08/09 it's fair to say there were at least two better players than Ronaldo, but for the year 2009, while you might not agree that Ronaldo was the second best player, it's not ridiculous to say he was the second best. He had an excellent end to the 08/09 season and a very good start to his Real Madrid career.
Brwned - he was a winger who scored SIX goals his first season, ten his next, maybe twelve his next then twenty the year after and 40-odd the year after.
He was NEVER a striker, Fergie made him one - he wanted to be a winger.
I don't think anyone's attidue is comparable to the King's, but let's get it right, how many times did you see Eric throw his arms around in disgust if Ince, Keane, Giggs or Beckham never laid on a decent pass to him in the manner Berbatov did against Blackburn last season? That showing by him was absolutely disgusting....
But we're mentioning players here who could win games at the quitest of times, Eric and Ronaldo - Berbatov has NEVER took the scruff of the neck the way these lads did.
Yes, he made him into a striker. In 07/08. He's continued to be one. There's every reason to compare him and Berbatov because their primary role was to score goals. Both had other responsibilities, obviously, but then so does every player.
So, tell me, did Ronaldo not have a great season or was it just a bizarre set of criteria to slag Berbatov off? It's got to be one of the two.
I don't know about Cantona but I know Ronaldo's done that and worse.
No, you're mentioning those players. God knows why - it was about goal droughts previously.
DId Ronaldo slag his own players of or criticise their passes, involvement or contribution or was it more like the fact Ronny spat the dum-dum because he either got tackled or wasn't quick enough to reach the ball in which he's do his huff and rolleye at the ref?
He never threw his arm round at Nani or Fletcher like Berbatov did in plenty of games but a bizarre culmination of arm-throwing that game which might explain my disdain for him, because he was a proper cnut that game, make no mistake.
Johnno...You're either being purposefully blind, or you have an agenda with Berbatov that won't let you see past your own views.
You've been warned, more then once now. Let it go or face consequences. It's not a request either, you've had the reasons explained to you, which you either don't understand or ignore. You are going nowhere with this, like I wasn't, arguing against you, so just leave the thread altogether.
You've been warned, more then once now. Let it go or face consequences. It's not a request either, you've had the reasons explained to you, which you either don't understand or ignore. You are going nowhere with this, like I wasn't, arguing against you, so just leave the thread altogether.
Ronaldo regularly got up in arms over his team-mates. Rooney usually. Scholes on occasion.
Constantly diverting the argument...
Why do you talk about Berbatov so much when you don't like him? Why not talk about a player you do like? Constant criticism's surely a lot more taxing than constant praise.
Well, he won't be talking about Berbatov anymore.
You've been warned repeatedly about this, and even if you were right, and we are all wrong - At least have the respect to acknowledge geebs warning, after all he is the reason you have not been banned 10 times over, and you damn well know this as I've spoken to you about it before.
You've been warned repeatedly about this, and even if you were right, and we are all wrong - At least have the respect to acknowledge geebs warning, after all he is the reason you have not been banned 10 times over, and you damn well know this as I've spoken to you about it before.
Just add "No Criticism Allowed" to the title of this thread
Hectic - point noted, not happy about it as I'm not abusive, I'm clearly making decent points which are being backed up by certain posters but I ackonowdlge I'm the more vocal.
Shame, because now Brnwed and that think they've now "WON" the argument because the admin agree with their POV's...
I thought this was a forum, seems it's a plaxce anyone with differing views to the mainstream is threatend with banning for expressing different views.
Ta-ra...
Shame, because now Brnwed and that think they've now "WON" the argument because the admin agree with their POV's...
I thought this was a forum, seems it's a plaxce anyone with differing views to the mainstream is threatend with banning for expressing different views.
Ta-ra...
It went far beyond that to be perfectly fair.
If this was Facebook, I'd LIKE this...
Fixed.
Apologies, I thought you were insinuating that were were in full agreement with KE7.
I think for the season 08-09 there is an argument for Ronaldo being the second best player in the world (the criteria the Ballon d'Or used is for seasons, not calender years and he was voted 2nd). Although he would be prejudiced by the fact he missed Aug/Sept through injury and was playing his way back into form in Oct. Also Ronaldo wouldn't be favoured due to his International performances for obvious reasons.
Anyway this is a thread about Berbatov and I don't share SR's changing goalposts regarding the criteria of a good or great player, I merely watch every game and feel Berbatov is having a decent-good season this year, not great, not bad.
This simply did not happen. Until about this time that year, Ronaldo was very poor in many matches. I think I'm right in saying that Berbatov and Ronaldo's goal tallys at this point were comparable, yet Berbatov does not take penalties and has had a greater overall contribution. Berbatov has been better up to this point - I don't think that's up for debate. However, we're yet to see if he can step on the pedal like Ronaldo did at the end of that season.
To be honest, reading on, I disagree with just about everything you have said here! Ronalo had an incredible season in 07/08, but he did not put in 8,9,10/10 performances at a consistent rate. He did that the season before, which was, without any shadow of a doubt whatoever, far, far superior to his season in 08/09. I'm surprised the comparison has even been drawn, though I'm guessing the goal tallies are similar.
He was nothing like the same player. Far more creative and explosive, yet with a similar goal tally. He was absolutely fecking amazing.
I'm not sure the Ronaldo we saw 2 years later was as arsed as that one up until the latter stages of the season (when the transfer window was coming round).
That's very gracious of you to offer such hearty praise to the top scorer in the league. I wonder how many goals he would have had to score by now to move from "decent good" all the way to just good, 30?
Ronaldos goal drought was the same as Berba 11 games.
15/11/08 till 20/01/09
11 games
started 10 subbed once
2 UCL
1 CC
8 EPL
Berbatov drought
26/09/2010 till 27/11/2010
11 games
4 UCL
7 EPL
started 9 - subbed 1 and not used 1
15/11/08 till 20/01/09
11 games
started 10 subbed once
2 UCL
1 CC
8 EPL
Berbatov drought
26/09/2010 till 27/11/2010
11 games
4 UCL
7 EPL
started 9 - subbed 1 and not used 1
You can't include games he didn't play in as games he didn't score in, that's ridiculous.
Why do people seem to take criticism of a player so personally?
At the end of the day, you're allowed to think a player is the dog's bollocks and someone else is allowed to think that they're not all that.
In the case of Berbatov, people haven't just woken up one day and thought, "I know, I think I'll just pick on Berbatov for a laugh". These opinions do seem to be largely rooted in the Berbatov that we saw for much of his first two seasons and it is difficult to shake them off.
This season, he HAS been better. Miles better. But, for me, he still doesn't absolutely convince me.
If we were playing a game and there was fifteen minutes to play and we were 1-0 down and you needed a draw to win the league, who would you rather bring on? Rooney, Berbatov or Hernandez? (just pretend that there's some weird starting line-up going on with the game and all three of those are on the bench).
For me, despite Berba's goalscoring record this season, I would still go Rooney, Hernandez, Berbatov - in that order and it is largely down to my view that you never quite know what you're going to get with Berba whereas you usually do with the other two.
It's perhaps an unfair assessment of Berba and I am not quite sure what it is that I expect of him - perhaps too much. He's almost too good for his own good because when he's shit, there's no excuse for it because we all know what he can do. We tend to make allowances for lesser players. Berba gets no lee-way whatsoever.
At the end of the day, you're allowed to think a player is the dog's bollocks and someone else is allowed to think that they're not all that.
In the case of Berbatov, people haven't just woken up one day and thought, "I know, I think I'll just pick on Berbatov for a laugh". These opinions do seem to be largely rooted in the Berbatov that we saw for much of his first two seasons and it is difficult to shake them off.
This season, he HAS been better. Miles better. But, for me, he still doesn't absolutely convince me.
If we were playing a game and there was fifteen minutes to play and we were 1-0 down and you needed a draw to win the league, who would you rather bring on? Rooney, Berbatov or Hernandez? (just pretend that there's some weird starting line-up going on with the game and all three of those are on the bench).
For me, despite Berba's goalscoring record this season, I would still go Rooney, Hernandez, Berbatov - in that order and it is largely down to my view that you never quite know what you're going to get with Berba whereas you usually do with the other two.
It's perhaps an unfair assessment of Berba and I am not quite sure what it is that I expect of him - perhaps too much. He's almost too good for his own good because when he's shit, there's no excuse for it because we all know what he can do. We tend to make allowances for lesser players. Berba gets no lee-way whatsoever.
Not sure if people do, if you read through this thread you'll see it's full of absurd claims and downright lies, some of which can't be seen as critique of Berbatov, but attacks on honesty, truth and sanity. These are bound to draw reactions from those who are not bonkers. Case in point a few posts up: Berbatov's 10 game drought becomes 11. How on earth can someone write stuff like that, thinking it makes sense? And Johnno's claim that Berbatov hasn't had a very good season because he has had poor games, while simultaneously refusing to apply the same criteria to other players... Beggars belief.
What's ridiculous is you trying to frig the stats. He was on the teamsheet as a sub in a home UCL game against Bursapor. The fact he didnt play was as much to do with his impact as a sub.
Oh dear, what a pathetic post. Some of the posters here will stoop down to any level to prove their agenda.
Oh dear, what a pathetic post. Some of the posters here will stoop down to any level to prove their agenda.
If the agenda is dealing with facts.
That's the key here, I think. There are some players who have "credit in the bank", I suppose. Berbatov, despite having a good season, is still largely seen as being in a deficit situation, by some.
I don't think Berbatov has ever been at Ronaldo's level in his time here, and it's not a criticism.
Ronaldo's presence, even on a bad day still constrained most Premier League teams to defensive mode. Why attack when there was a moody player on the wing who could kill games in one instant just by his movement (a very overlooked tool he used)?
The comparison is ridiculous, I know people are trying to counteract Johnno's criticism, but come on.
Ronaldo's presence, even on a bad day still constrained most Premier League teams to defensive mode. Why attack when there was a moody player on the wing who could kill games in one instant just by his movement (a very overlooked tool he used)?
The comparison is ridiculous, I know people are trying to counteract Johnno's criticism, but come on.
Including games he didn't play in. I reckon we should get rid of Kuszczak, it's been 12 games since he kept a clean sheet.
I have to admit to being rather worried about Owen's 11 game goal drought.
Ah Commadus, I remember you from the noobs and your Berba hating ways.
Anyway - if this, 21 (?) goals, the leagues top goal scorer, hattrick against Liverpool - and us being top of the league, Semi's of the FA cup and 1/4 of the CL - is down to Berbatov having a bad season, not being good enough, not scoring enough etc then I hope he has one next year as well.
In fact, I hope all our players have bad seasons next year. We'll probably win everything.
Anyway - if this, 21 (?) goals, the leagues top goal scorer, hattrick against Liverpool - and us being top of the league, Semi's of the FA cup and 1/4 of the CL - is down to Berbatov having a bad season, not being good enough, not scoring enough etc then I hope he has one next year as well.
In fact, I hope all our players have bad seasons next year. We'll probably win everything.
Ahhh... I love the international break
I reckon we should get rid of Kuszczak, it's been 12 games since he kept a clean sheet.
Well, it does look like he's on his way, doesn't it? And why? Because he's not been considered good enough to play in those games.
I'm not agreeing with Commadus' methods here, just pointing out that there is a point to what he is saying.
For stat purposes, however, I think it's commonly accepted that only games when the player takes part should be counted.
Perhaps a better method would be to count the minutes (of actual playing time) that made up the goal-drought?
It has to do feck all with facts.
I can give several reasons why Berba was brought on in that match and none of them was due to his impact as a sub
1) It was imperative to give Macheda full 90 mins
2) We were winning the match comfortably and since Rooney was injured at that time, Fergie didn't wanna risk Berbatov in that match.
You are embarrassing yourself in this thread.
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