Dimitar Berbatov | 2010/11 Performances
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SR, you seem unable to recognize anything of value from Berbatov this season.
Your main points seem to be stripping him from everything, to paint him in as negative a light as possible:
Neglecting everything he's done this season, all you go on about is:
1) Not scoring against top opposition
2) Scoring too many goals in single games, i.e Liverpool
3) Not scoring in 8 games (actually 4 games worth)
You've managed to ignore about 10 pages of rebuttles, responses and answers, but you refuse to acknlowedge anything anyone's saying. It's really odd to be honest, you have a personal dislike for Berbatov that completely clouds your judgement.
Your main points seem to be stripping him from everything, to paint him in as negative a light as possible:
Neglecting everything he's done this season, all you go on about is:
1) Not scoring against top opposition
2) Scoring too many goals in single games, i.e Liverpool
3) Not scoring in 8 games (actually 4 games worth)
You've managed to ignore about 10 pages of rebuttles, responses and answers, but you refuse to acknlowedge anything anyone's saying. It's really odd to be honest, you have a personal dislike for Berbatov that completely clouds your judgement.
I agree, I was just about to bring that up. He's been awesome against Liverpool recently - a hat-trick earlier in the season, and winning us the penalty in the FA Cup game (however soft it was).
To say he hasn't produced against Liverpool is just plain ridiculous. And we've still to play Arsenal and Chelsea again this season, so give the guy a break.
21 goals (20 in the league), his best season by a mile. If we win the league, his goals will be the main reason for it.
Right, but has Torres been the top scorer for club and league, and also been subbed on and off for the majority of those 8 games?
What point are you trying to make Johnno.
What about Rooney, he goes on a run or around 8-9 games near enough each season without a goal, yet he's still one of our best players, and best performers in recent years.
Well you can't include me in that bracket. I haven't criticised Torres. What I have said is that it's tough to move into a new team in January and that anything he produces in these six months is a bonus; we know from our own experiences with Evra and Vidic that this period is a settling in one.
The "criticism" of Torres from non Chelsea fans is more likely people delighting in an opposition player struggling for an odious club. No one in their right mind thinks that Torres is past it, or that he's not world class.
Hes scored about seven or eight against City since 2004/05 I think you'll find
Because that's what you said Johnno oh wait....
Good call on the penalty, forgot about that.
City were a nothing team for much of that period. You can't re-colour history and make out that City have always been a direct rival.
Yeah but Hectic/feed Me; I'm not saying both you are criticizing Torres but is he being criticized by some parties? Yes, and in my opinion right so as you want a $50 million player to be scoring.
I'm pleased Berbatov is better this season but he's still not fulfilled his price tag or reputation; he needs to retain his goal scoring, performances and place in the team for that to happen.
You two are just transfer muppets really, you're not alone either so don't feel bad. You just want him to do well do badly you're blinded by the fact he's been better rather than actually fulfilling his destiny.
I'm pleased Berbatov is better this season but he's still not fulfilled his price tag or reputation; he needs to retain his goal scoring, performances and place in the team for that to happen.
You two are just transfer muppets really, you're not alone either so don't feel bad. You just want him to do well do badly you're blinded by the fact he's been better rather than actually fulfilling his destiny.
Hang on mate, don't goals count against the little teams just like the bigger teams or are you full of shit?
I was playing Devil's Advocate!
You can't twist the argument when it suits. If you've said that goals against the lesser lights are less worthy than those against the best teams, then you can't use Rooney's record against City, dating back to 2004.
The transfer muppets are the ones who are suggesting we shouldn't sell Berbatov (or buy Benzema)? That's a new one.
We really aren't being transfer muppets though Johnno, you are just oblivious to all positives concerning Berbatov. The fact that you have to argue with these weird, completely irrelevant stats against him, just shows that you have a problem with Berbatov that won't be answered through his good form this season.
It seems you are really trying, or desperate to prove his negatives, I doubt even a rival fan would go into the effort and depth that you have.
It seems you are really trying, or desperate to prove his negatives, I doubt even a rival fan would go into the effort and depth that you have.
You really are just absolutely bizarre. You're on a wind up, in my opinion, so I'm not going to get wound up.
You obviously haven't ever read my opinions on Berbatov. I like him as a player and I do will him to do well (because he's a United player). But I've never shirked the fact that for his first two seasons, he was underwhelming (still made some important contributions though). But credit where it's due, he's had an excellent season this year and is on course for 30 goals. Only a spastic would argue against that.
I was playing Devil's Advocate!
You can't twist the argument when it suits. If you've said that goals against the lesser lights are less worthy than those against the best teams, then you can't use Rooney's record against City, dating back to 2004.
I was actually referring to the goals he scored against City last season against a very good City side who narrowly missed Europe, how many has Berb scored against a Top Five side the last three seasons? One, against Chelsea...
Why should he have to justify anything? It's nothing to do with him what we paid. It's not his fault we paid £30m for him. This season he's doing the business, that's all anybody cares about. One thing I do wish though is that he'd start and get a few goals in Europe again, but I'm hopeful that'll happen (if SAF plays him that is).
The last time we won the tilte (08/09), we scored 6 goals against Chelsea and Liverpool, our main rivals this season. Berbatov was directly involved in 4 of them, Tevez in 2, Ronaldo and Rooney in 1.
Berbatov assisted Tevez goal at Anfield, Park goal at St. Bridge, Vidic goal for 1:0 vs Chelsea at OT, and scored the third goal in the same game.
It's a myth that Berbatov hasn't contributed in big games.
Berbatov assisted Tevez goal at Anfield, Park goal at St. Bridge, Vidic goal for 1:0 vs Chelsea at OT, and scored the third goal in the same game.
It's a myth that Berbatov hasn't contributed in big games.
Since we bought Berbatov, there has been this force field of protection around him, it's clear he underperformed, especially, in his first two seasons yet when criticism was applied, most were quick to jump on the accusers; it's clearly fine to criticize Giggs, Fletcher, O'Shea and Owen; homegrown or free signings but not a £30 mil player. Why? It's clear most can't accept he was a flop because they want a big money signing to do well.
Top five?
Since when has the fifth place side been included in such debates? They're not our rivals.
Go and have a look at how ordinary van Nistelrooy's record was against the big guns in the league. Contrary to what you argue, records against these teams isn't that important.
So are you saying it's alright he's underwhelmed for the majority of the time he's been with us? He's obliged to perform well for us despite what his fee might be, £1million or £30million...
Ruud scored against the Scousers, City, Arsenal and was leading goal scorer in Europe.
Just behave now...
What does that have to do with this season? Are you even reading the posts you are responding to Johnno? He was disappointing and did underperform, this season, he's been great and is the top scorer.
I'm going to bed guys and gals: will be back up at 10pm GMT so get your snide comments in whilst I'm away
Most people accepted that he underperformed. Flop is too strong a word and fails to credit him for some important contributions during those two seasons.
Berbatov is a player who produces black and white arguments, it seems. You have his staunch defenders and his fierce critics. Both camps are wrong. His performance level has been somewhere in between. Occasionally excellent, occasionally dire and often okay.
What's undeniable is that he's had a very good season this time round. I don't see the value in beating him with the stick of his first two seasons. They're gone now. His current season's form is strong and if we extrapolate his current form to the end of the season, then he'll have scored a feck load and performed a key part in a trophy winning season (hopefully).
I don't think you understand that some players take time to adapt to new surroundings. It might take 6 months, it might take a year, it might take a bit longer. Berbatov admitted the pressure of joining this club weighed on him a bit, but this season clearly he's broken free of that pressure and is enjoying his best season for the club.
Was he underwhelming his first two seasons here? Yes, he was. I think most would admit that. At times, I questioned whether he'd remain here. I've always liked him, but I did question at times whether he had what it takes to be a Manchester United player. This season, I think he's proved to everybody he has what it takes. Sometimes, it just takes a bit of patience.
And if we're rewarded with number 19, then I'd say he has jusified his price-tag that you spoke about earlier.
Surely you can see the distinction between say City and Chelsea. City have been bitter rivals historically, whereas Chelsea are rivals because we compete for trophies. Up until last season, City were also rans. By your own definition, goals scored against City between 2004 and 2009 were less worthy than they now are.
Penalties against the Scouse. In one game. When Hyypia was sent off after 5 minutes.
City were most definitely a nothing team when van Nistelrooy was here.
He did okay against Arsenal.
His big game record in the PL was relatively ordinary.
Before you go Johnno. Would would you define Berbatov's input to this season if we do go on and win the league? I see him as one of the primary figures, alongside Nani who have performed when we have most needed it, i.e when we didn't have a set of wingers, or two inform strikers. You talk of important matches and scoring in the big games, but when Rooney was misfiring, only one striker was pulling his weight and seeing to it that we were even in a race to finish.
I love this idea that Berbatov has been cosseted on this forum, the reality is that he has been given very little patience by most fans. His overall play since he's come to utd has been completely undervalued and his performances over those two seasons have been totally judged on goals- even though it's obvious he was asked to play a deeper role in those two seasons.
Now he's playing in the advanced role and lo and behold he's the top scorer in the league yet some people still refuse to give him credit. He will never win some fans like SR over because they can't appreciate his style of play and probably blame him for the departure of Tevez.
Only a few people on this forum have continued to recognise his ability and general contribution to our attacking play, this notion that he's had a "forcefield of protection" is just plain retarded.
Good post by Feed me, We do have a tendency to go too far one way or the other with Berbatov. I think the whole thing that annoys me about a couple of the staunch Berbatov fans is that he has become such an idol for doing very little when compared with others over the years. On this forum for instance there is a guy with his location as "Dreaming of a team full of Berbatov's" and another guy stating his impeccable touch and sublime skill on his location.
Sorry but he aint that good and he does not deserve that kindve hero worship. In my opinion the likes of O’Shea and Fletcher deserve to be regarded higher.
I do think he has had a very good season and shown a lot of balls to overcome his first 2 years and the definite pressure that must go hand in hand with that. He has been vital to our league season and along with Vidic and Nani he was our best player for the 1st half of the season. He wont be on that list for the 2nd half not his own fault, but simply he has not played enough to be considered.
But I still question his squad status and what Fergie really thinks of him recently which I think is fair. He only came on last Saturday because Brown went off injured for his height of all things. I think Fergie really should have just not told us that. It can’t do much for his confidence at all. Berbatov should be brought on or start for his attacking ability not to help out when defending set pieces (even if it is Bolton we are playing)
But again as SR also stated we have been in for other strikers over the last year too. Which also asks the question of Fergie's opinion of Berbatov.
Sorry but he aint that good and he does not deserve that kindve hero worship. In my opinion the likes of O’Shea and Fletcher deserve to be regarded higher.
I do think he has had a very good season and shown a lot of balls to overcome his first 2 years and the definite pressure that must go hand in hand with that. He has been vital to our league season and along with Vidic and Nani he was our best player for the 1st half of the season. He wont be on that list for the 2nd half not his own fault, but simply he has not played enough to be considered.
But I still question his squad status and what Fergie really thinks of him recently which I think is fair. He only came on last Saturday because Brown went off injured for his height of all things. I think Fergie really should have just not told us that. It can’t do much for his confidence at all. Berbatov should be brought on or start for his attacking ability not to help out when defending set pieces (even if it is Bolton we are playing)
But again as SR also stated we have been in for other strikers over the last year too. Which also asks the question of Fergie's opinion of Berbatov.
Alright then, before I close my eyes; yes, he has been one of the best players this year along with Nani, VDS & Vidic but let's be honest here kids, aside from
these lot, Utd have been very ordinary this season and I'm truly baffled at times how we're top of the league.
As mentioned earlier, only Berb & Tevez have scored more than 15, the rest are WAY behind whereas in years gone by you'd have Drogba, Torres, Saha maybe, Bent, Defoe or Crouch up around the 20 mark by now.
Someone said a few posts back Berb is on course for thirty goals. I highly doubt that as he'll need pretty much a goal a game between now and then but I certainly hope he does, but pardon my pessimism if I say I severely doubt it, sorry.
Amazing post by Randall Flag, take a bow son...
Wait, O'Shea should be regarded higher then Berbatov?
I'm reading it again. "He aint that good, O'Shea and Fletcher should be regarded higher."
What on earth? I thought you might have meant they have been loyal assets to the club, but the initial bit 'he aint that good' would point the comparison at their ability.
I'm reading it again. "He aint that good, O'Shea and Fletcher should be regarded higher."
What on earth? I thought you might have meant they have been loyal assets to the club, but the initial bit 'he aint that good' would point the comparison at their ability.
I'm sure he agrees like me that he is good but he ain't THAT good to what you lot think.
Look at the tag line on Feed Me's thing, the quote. Sorry but that's just bum-love gay, who actually said that? Hardly subjective in thus argument then is he? I've just noticed that too...
Obviously Berbatov is technically a far better player than O'Shea and Fletcher. What I meant is we should hold them in higher regard for what they have done for the club.
Veron was a much player than Nicky Butt, but who do you look back at more fondly?
Veron was a much player than Nicky Butt, but who do you look back at more fondly?
You can idolise workmanlike players if you want, personally I admire players who are incredibly skilful and make me stand up when they have the ball. Every single time Berbatov is on the pitch there will be at least one "how the feck did he do that?" moment. Plus I'm someone who appreciates possession football as opposed to the faster pace, more direct style that we seem to play nowadays. My tagline of "dreaming of a team full of Berbatovs" is because if that were a reality then we would hardly ever lose the ball.
behave Johnno, stop trolling
you know it, I know it
you know it, I know it
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