Dimitar Berbatov | 2010/11 Performances

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Sir Alex rarely comes out and says that a combination of starting players arent doing enough. And if he felt the midfield were doing just as bad he'd have said so. He picked Berbatov and Rooney out for a reason. And since that time he's seen fit to change it. It couldnt be more clear what he thinks.
... I overlooked your mind reading ability, oops.

Other players and combinations are doing exactly that.

Hmm lets see played Wigan Chelsea away and Liverpool away since those comments. Wigan game you can hardly say they it was a glittering performance against a team that defends like crap. Chelsea they looked good when Scholes was playing well in the first half but, then petered out when he tired out - which illustrates the point that the forwards do well when they have support. Liverpool - All 3 of them were on the pitch for the second half and hardly troubled the Liverpool defense, again because we were being dominated centrally.

Against Marseille we dominated the CM and when that happens it allows the forwards to come into the game and make an impact. I find it strange you don't think the play behind the forwards has not been a significant reason to why we've been so poor in the attacking 3rd for our away matches. Just because SAF hasn't said it doesn't mean it isn't true or are you now saying the only true assessment of our play is if SAF has outwardly said it in the press?
 
Fantastic point, the bit in bold.

We've yet to see Rooney and Berbatov both on form when playing together. Their next few matches when played together should tell us if thats even possible.

Doesn't the fact that both players have now been playing together for the best part of three seasons now and yet people can still say things like that tell us anything here?

As MRD says above, Rooney was in form when they played against Cheksea and Liverpool and we lost, then Rooney snd Hernandez start together and we beat Arsenal and Marseilles.
 
As MRD says above, Rooney was in form when they played against Cheksea and Liverpool and we lost, then Rooney snd Hernandez start together and we beat Arsenal and Marseilles.

We would've done that anyway, don't you think? Bit more difficult to beat Chelsea and Liverpool.
 
We would've done that anyway, don't you think? Bit more difficult to beat Chelsea and Liverpool.

So why didn't he play then mate? He's not even trusted to play, Rooneys movement and interaction with Chico caused Arsenal & L'Om problems, would Berb have been on the end of each of the two Marseilles goals?
Probably not but then again he probably would have trapped the ball from a kick out by VDS, dinked it over Heinze's head on the volley, trap it, pirouette past Diawarra, round Lloris and then bum it into the net with great pinache.
Life is just like FIFA 2011 innit...
 
There's absolutely no point arguing with Johnno about Berbatov, even when he was playing really well he was still saying 'He's still not scoring in enough games, he's only been like this for a few months' blah blah blah, when in fact that was all bollocks. Really, it appears that Berbatov just can't win no matter what he does. Not even being top scorer in the PL is good enough.

Some people have these fixed beliefs on players that they just refuse to change, no matter how much evidence is presented to disprove their belief. Johnno is one of them.

How original; have you ever had an opinion of your own aside form borrowing from others and surrounding yourself with those disagreeing to be safe?
In the business world, you'd be called a Yes Man...
 
... I overlooked your mind reading ability, oops.



Hmm lets see played Wigan Chelsea away and Liverpool away since those comments. Wigan game you can hardly say they it was a glittering performance against a team that defends like crap. Chelsea they looked good when Scholes was playing well in the first half but, then petered out when he tired out - which illustrates the point that the forwards do well when they have support. Liverpool - All 3 of them were on the pitch for the second half and hardly troubled the Liverpool defense, again because we were being dominated centrally.

Against Marseille we dominated the CM and when that happens it allows the forwards to come into the game and make an impact. I find it strange you don't think the play behind the forwards has not been a significant reason to why we've been so poor in the attacking 3rd for our away matches. Just because SAF hasn't said it doesn't mean it isn't true or are you now saying the only true assessment of our play is if SAF has outwardly said it in the press?

But its like chalks and cheese regards home matches. it takes two to tango - you cant just offload the problems onto the midfield the same midfield that does well at home.
 
With Rooney;

Arsenal
H - WWLWDWW
A - WDLDLW*

Chelsea
H - LWDWWL*
A - LLDLDLL

Liverpool
H - WWWWLWW
A - WDWWLLL

(* indicates yet to play)

Very strong figures with Rooney since arriving in 2004. I'm not a huge one for stats but people on here obviously are so judging from these figures, we're not as strong starting from the 2008/09 season. Now what happened in that season, did anyone new arrive?
Hmmm....
 
With Rooney;

Arsenal
H - WWLWDWW
A - WDLDLW*

Chelsea
H - LWDWWL*
A - LLDLDLL

Liverpool
H - WWWWLWW
A - WDWWLLL

(* indicates yet to play)

Very strong figures with Rooney since arriving in 2004. I'm not a huge one for stats but people on here obviously are so judging from these figures, we're not as strong starting from the 2008/09 season. Now what happened in that season, did anyone new arrive?
Hmmm....

What are you blaming Berbatov for now?
 
Of those you listed, it looks to me that only our record against Liverpool has deteriorated since the start of 2008/09. You seriously can't think Berbatov arriving is a stronger reason for that than, say, Liverpool having their best league season in years, Vidic repeatedly getting himself sent off against them etc. etc.?
 
Personally, I don't care for stats much but someone posted some figures and I did my own research and that's what I found, I can't see any analytical sensing from any of it aside from our poor record versus Chelsea since 2003, we've beaten Arsenal plenty of times with a few losses but keep in mind we play Arsenal in our classic style (not formation) of counter-attacking with fast wing reactive strategies.
And without Berbatov...
The losses incurred to Liverpool and Chelsea since 2008 have included Berbatov in the team. Is that important? Is it significant? I don't know, but you lot seem to love your stats and figures, how about stepping back and looking at the actual game rather than the figures ESPN throw at you...
 
So why didn't he play then mate? He's not even trusted to play, Rooneys movement and interaction with Chico caused Arsenal & L'Om problems, would Berb have been on the end of each of the two Marseilles goals?
Probably not but then again he probably would have trapped the ball from a kick out by VDS, dinked it over Heinze's head on the volley, trap it, pirouette past Diawarra, round Lloris and then bum it into the net with great pinache.
Life is just like FIFA 2011 innit...

So he isn't trusted to play? I guess every time a player is rotated out then the manager doesn't trust any of the players on the bench or the ones that don't even make the bench. Will have to remember that the next time Chicha doesn't play - Fergie doesn't trust him anymore

And ... would be something considering Lloris plays for Lyon
 
But its like chalks and cheese regards home matches. it takes two to tango - you cant just offload the problems onto the midfield the same midfield that does well at home.

That's the thing - at home our midfield has played fairly well throughout the season and thus you get better performances out of the forwards.

Am not absolving Rooney/Berbatov of not putting in better performances in a lot of our away games but, overall team performance in our away games has been quite poor and a lot of that stems from not being able to control the midfield like we do when we are home.
 
So he isn't trusted to play? I guess every time a player is rotated out then the manager doesn't trust any of the players on the bench or the ones that don't even make the bench. Will have to remember that the next time Chicha doesn't play - Fergie doesn't trust him anymore

And ... would be something considering Lloris plays for Lyon

But Chico is actually playing, and Berbatov has been ceremoniously dumped at this stage of the season each of the last three years now so my point holds much more weight than yours.
And I didn't mean Lloris, I meant Steve Mangina...
 
I never said not to use them and why you listen to me if I did? Post whatever you fecking want mate, go hard.
I said I don't really care for them but if everyone else is using them, then I shall too...

Well if you're going to use stats you may as well get them right - Berbatov started all but two of our league games from March 17th last season onwards. Nevermind ceremonious, that's not even unceremonious dumping.
 
Well if you're going to use stats you may as well get them right - Berbatov started all but two of our league games from March 17th last season onwards. Nevermind ceremonious, that's not even unceremonious dumping.

Berbatov didn't play against Bayern, did he? That was our biggest game and AGAIN he was dropped for it.
After that match, we had games against Chelsea, Blackburn, City, Spurs, Sunderland and Stoke and he didn't score in any of them. Games we were pushing to win the league, and from memory, he was poor against Blackburn when we could have taken points which in doing so, might have won us the league considering Chelsea only won it by a point or two in the end.

This from Sky Sports;
Match Report | Blackburn v Man Utd - 11th April 2010 | Sky Sports | Football News
I remember the frustration in this match, Berbatov was a solitary figure but every time Blackburn intercepted a ball, he threw his arms around, shaking his head which angered a lot of supporters instead of him chasing back for the ball.

I wonder if Rooney had not in fact been injured in that first match against Bayern and then not rushed back for the subsequent return in which he was clearly playing injured, Berbatov would have featured much at all in the run-in.

And we were without Owen who gotten himself injured against Villa in the Carling Cup Final.
 
So your argument regarding Berbatov's starting record has failed, now you want to move onto his scoring record? Well we don't really have to look back any further than this season to know that without his goals we'd have been out of the title race long before Rooney decided to bother his arse helping us out.

There's not really any point in debating this topic with you though, is there? It's not even debating, it's just petty point scoring. You don't draw your beliefs from actual events, you look for events that satisfy your beliefs. It's ridiculous to moan about Berbatov's goalscoring when he sits on top of the scorers table in March. I can concede that to a certain extent they've come in fits and starts, but as far as I'm aware no one's scored in a much greater number of games this season than he has - a couple of games extra at most. If his 19 goals were spread out over 19 games I bet you'd be complaining that he switches off after scoring one!
 
So your argument regarding Berbatov's starting record has failed, now you want to move onto his scoring record? Well we don't really have to look back any further than this season to know that without his goals we'd have been out of the title race long before Rooney decided to bother his arse helping us out.

There's not really any point in debating this topic with you though, is there? It's not even debating, it's just petty point scoring. You don't draw your beliefs from actual events, you look for events that satisfy your beliefs. It's ridiculous to moan about Berbatov's goalscoring when he sits on top of the scorers table in March. I can concede that to a certain extent they've come in fits and starts, but as far as I'm aware no one's scored in a much greater number of games this season than he has - a couple of games extra at most. If his 19 goals were spread out over 19 games I bet you'd be complaining that he switches off after scoring one!

I think I have shown I am discussing actual events as I demonstrated with the Blackburn game, that was one particular match where he really irked me due to his performance and attitude and I know I wasn't the only one.
Trust me, plenty wouldn't have been too upset had we bought the likes of a David Villa or a Benzema last summer as Fergie tried to do. There was never a risk he'd dump Rooney, so you'd have to think Berb's days would have been up.
I've been pleased with his contribution this season, but he still is dropped which proves even the management aren't convinced of his prowess, there's my justification in my train of thought, one which I've held about the player since about October 2008...
 
Yeah, I've noticed.

I do remember the Blackburn game, and I do agree it was an extremely frustrating 90 minutes, but as I remember it Berbatov wasn't the only player who had a bad day that day. Macheda was pretty much a passenger, the midfield lacked in support for the forwards despite Blackburn frequently defending in large numbers, Nani didn't get a single shot on target despite several characteristic blasts from the edge of the box, Valencia actually missed our best chance of the match after good work from Berbatov sent him through with just the keeper to beat - but Berbatov was the only one to get any flack for the performance. He didn't have a great day, clearly, but there were plenty of other players in red who didn't do any better.

As for him being dropped recently - I don't particularly like it, but I can see the reasoning behind it. If we struggle pinning teams back with our midfield (as we clearly have done in away games this season), the next best thing we can do is pin their defence back with Hernandez, thus leaving space between their defence and midfield for us to break into. Berbatov doesn't offer such a threat with his pace, so defences can keep a higher line and give us far less space to play our way up the pitch. This wasn't so much an issue when we bought Berbatov the season after dominating teams in the majority of our games, but it is an issue now. Give me one season with Berbatov playing in front of a strong, proper Manchester United quality midfield, and we'll see how he performs. My gut instinct is that he'd improve significantly in away fixtures - more along the levels of this seasons home form. Hopefully next season will be that season.

Anyway, I'm out for now.
 
As 2Pac said, that's just the way it is...

Recent Record Away to Chelsea: LDLDLD
Recent Record Away to Liverpool: LLWWLD
Recent Record Home to Arsenal: WWDWWW

What was our record in matches with an O'Shea, Gibson, Fabio and Rafael midfield and no Vidic and Ferdinand in defence against Arsenal, before the match?

We were up against the 2nd best side in the league this season and we had our weakest midfield options of all season. And one of our weaker defences.
 
whats all this about?


10460,xcitefun-titanic-paper.jpg
 
Scorebored Red list your biggest gripes of Berba - from the most annoying to the least.
 
Not starting again.

That's just 1 start (Liverpool) in our last 6 games.
 
Not suprised. Hernandez is our inform striker and Rooney has been playing very well of late. Why change it ?

These 3 points are vital.
 
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