Dimitar Berbatov | 2010/11 Performances

[Cold_Boy]

I don't see the point in arguing much here.

Berbatov has had a a very good season but not been consistently exceptional tbh.

He is not suited to games where we need speed.

Both him and Chicharito are good players and its fantastic that we finally have serious options in our strikers department.

 

[Commadus]

If Rooney gets a move on in these last games and grabs about 5 more goals whilst Hernandez and Berba a few more we could end up with 2 strikers on 20 plus and 1 on 15 - thats freaking awesome no matter how you slice it.

Berba set the season up with goals early on in the campaign now Rooney and Hernandez can finish it off - they compliment each other one creates the base the other two provide the cream on top - perfect.

 

[Brwned]

Now Brwned, could you look me in the eye and tell me that was the actual truth?
Could you, be honest...

My findings, very simple Google search, concludes he went between late September to 31 October of which there were FIVE games and a two week international break within that period, without a goal and that was his most barren spell.

2009

Against Everton, Chelsea, CSKA, Liverpool, Sunderland, Wolfsburg and Stoke he failed to score. In between this he scored against Blackburn. Didn't score against Ukraine or Brazil either.

I'm not sure one goal in 8 is significantly better than 0 goals in 7, to be honest. You would though, because it suits the argument.

 

[Rood]

Only with a belt around my neck - the only thing I'm frustrated about is him arriving broke up a full functioning, successful partnership so it seemed unneccesary and that pisses me off, you can say it's not Berbatov's fault but of course he's the player who didn't perform the first two seasons he was here.
Tevez can go feck himself, he's well gone but the fact remains his replacement (of sorts) has been a lesser player than he was.

Ok so you hate him because he is not Tevez - its a fecking idiotic reason but at least I now understand your irrational hatred of one of our players.

 

[I'm always right]

Ok so you hate him because he is not Tevez - its a fecking idiotic reason but at least I now understand your irrational hatred of one of our players.

2 + 2= 57

 

[Treble]

If Rooney gets a move on in these last games and grabs about 5 more goals whilst Hernandez and Berba a few more we could end up with 2 strikers on 20 plus and 1 on 15 - thats freaking awesome no matter how you slice it.

Berba set the season up with goals early on in the campaign now Rooney and Hernandez can finish it off - they compliment each other one creates the base the other two provide the cream on top - perfect.

Agreed. I think it's quite possible that Rooney, Hernandez and Berbatov score about 60 goals between them and that would be a great return. Fergie said several times that we need two strikers on 20+ goals in order to have a successful campaign.

Re Livepool stats: they show that the games with them are always difficult, generally more difficult than those with Arsenal, not that United with Berbatov in the team play well against them. Berbatov has played in all three league games at Anfield since2008 and we lost all of them.

 

[Scoreboard Red]

Against Everton, Chelsea, CSKA, Liverpool, Sunderland, Wolfsburg and Stoke he failed to score. In between this he scored against Blackburn. Didn't score against Ukraine or Brazil either.

I'm not sure one goal in 8 is significantly better than 0 goals in 7, to be honest. You would though, because it suits the argument.

Oh right so cup and Europe count and international too.
You sad twat.
Then if we're going down that road using this logic then I must proclaim Berbatov even more disappointing as he's scored none in 17 CL games and none in any cup game at any point this season.

 

[Commadus]

You can't knock Berba for what he is not - ie a pacy forward like Hernandez but sometimes it takes a different approach against obdurate defensive teams.

Rooney / Berba / Hernandez have 45 goals between them if they collectively get 60 - that is freaking awesome.

Add in Nani we already have 55 goals amongst our top 4 players.

If I have time I will look back over the last 5 years and add up the number of goals our top 4 players have scored. Will be interesting.

Fans complained when we were over reliant on one player now they complain when we have the goals shared out.

 

[Deleted 20801]

Do players having great seasons, as I keep hearing he's having, go seven games without scoring?
Do they go nine games without scoring?
Do they ave great games then get dropped for the games against Arsenal and Marseilles?

I'm pretty sure Rooney went over 7 games without scoring last season....

Even if that's not the case...yes.

 

[Deleted 20801]

Oh right so cup and Europe count and international too.
You sad twat.
Then if we're going down that road using this logic then I must proclaim Berbatov even more disappointing as he's scored none in 17 CL games and none in any cup game at any point this season.

He didn't have 17 CL games in a row, nor Cup games....

Weird point you are trying to make here.

 

[Name Changed]

It's a shame for him, he is the top scorer in the Premier League and he's not getting picked, there's very little more he can actually do.

Well, there is actually.

 

[Shimo]

Rooney's goal against Wigan - Berba could have gone himself and tried to pad his total and stop the well he hasn't scored in X number of games but, he gave it to Rooney because a) He isn't self absorbed about his scoring b) Recognizes the importance to have Rooney firing. He did it against Blackburn where he tried to get Rooney the ball to score instead of shooting himself and then ended up scoring.

He's a class player, better fit in some ways that Teveth due to the club/team first attitude.

Also, think him and Rooney have a really good understanding and would be interesting to see how Berba does with Rooney in this form, it could be equally as deadly as Chicha.

Good thing is now we have 3 strikers that IMO will scare defenders one way or another when they are on the pitch. Perhaps Berba even with 19 this season doesn't give the same level of feeling that you get with Chicha that he'll score if he is on the pitch but, with Berba you also know that he can create and do something magical out of nothing.

We need all 3 of them playing well from here till the end of the season, not like last season when Rooney went out, at that time everyone wondered where the goals were going to come from. This season even if one of them is out - you still have the other 2 plus Nani. That's a great thing.

 

[Feed Me]

Rooney's goal against Wigan - Berba could have gone himself and tried to pad his total and stop the well he hasn't scored in X number of games but, he gave it to Rooney because a) He isn't self absorbed about his scoring b) Recognizes the importance to have Rooney firing. He did it against Blackburn where he tried to get Rooney the ball to score instead of shooting himself and then ended up scoring.

He's a class player, better fit in some ways that Teveth due to the club/team first attitude.

Also, think him and Rooney have a really good understanding and would be interesting to see how Berba does with Rooney in this form, it could be equally as deadly as Chicha.

Good thing is now we have 3 strikers that IMO will scare defenders one way or another when they are on the pitch. Perhaps Berba even with 19 this season doesn't give the same level of feeling that you get with Chicha that he'll score if he is on the pitch but, with Berba you also know that he can create and do something magical out of nothing.

We need all 3 of them playing well from here till the end of the season, not like last season when Rooney went out, at that time everyone wondered where the goals were going to come from. This season even if one of them is out - you still have the other 2 plus Nani. That's a great thing.

Fantastic point, the bit in bold.

 

[MG]

There's absolutely no point arguing with Johnno about Berbatov, even when he was playing really well he was still saying 'He's still not scoring in enough games, he's only been like this for a few months' blah blah blah, when in fact that was all bollocks. Really, it appears that Berbatov just can't win no matter what he does. Not even being top scorer in the PL is good enough.

Some people have these fixed beliefs on players that they just refuse to change, no matter how much evidence is presented to disprove their belief. Johnno is one of them.

 

[Brwned]

Oh right so cup and Europe count and international too.
You sad twat.
Then if we're going down that road using this logic then I must proclaim Berbatov even more disappointing as he's scored none in 17 CL games and none in any cup game at any point this season.

Sad twat?

You're aware that your initial proclamation of 'Berbatov hasn't scored in 7' included European games? And the 'Berbatov hasn't scored in 9 games' included two he didn't play in?! If you think I'm stretching it a bit to suit my argument god knows what you're doing!

Unless of course you actually meant his last 7 league games, in which he's actually scored 2 in 7 (compared to Rooney's 1 in 7 league games over the period)...

Well done.

Over this oh so poor period from Berbatov, he's scored none in 450 minutes. Last season Rooney scored one in 501 minutes (not including internationals).

 

[MG]

Sad twat?

You're aware that your initial proclamation of 'Berbatov hasn't scored in 7' included European games? And the 'Berbatov hasn't scored in 9 games' included two he didn't play in?! If you think I'm stretching it a bit to suit my argument god knows what you're doing!

Unless of course you actually meant his last 7 league games, in which he's actually scored 2 in 7 (compared to Rooney's 1 in 7 league games over the period)...

Well done.

Don't bother Brwned, sensible posters like you shouldn't waste time trying to disprove Johnno, he'll always have a shite point to make about Berbatov being crap because that was the belief he formed a few years ago and nothing, nothing - not even Berba being top scorer in the PL - will count against that belief of his. All the evidence in the world could be presented against it; and some posters have shown countless arguments to support how well Berbatov's played this season - and not just in August/September time as Johnno hilariously thinks - but he just won't accept it.

These type of supporters are excruciatingly tedious to debate with and there's just no point. You can't reason with muppets.

 

[Feeky Magee]

More than a few though, innit mate and it's not exactly the first time he's gone games without playing well, scoring goals and ultimately DUMPED by the boss.
Is reality so hard to accept?
And trust me mate, I was vocal in praising Berbatov's form in Aug/Sep and I'm pretty sure I even did a thread on it saying he's proving me wrong but unfortunately I can only go back to October in my threads doing a search, I'm sure if you can be arsed please do a search and they'll be there somewhere mate, but it's 11.24pm and I'm off to bed soon pal.



Only with a belt around my neck - the only thing I'm frustrated about is him arriving broke up a full functioning, successful partnership so it seemed unneccesary and that pisses me off, you can say it's not Berbatov's fault but of course he's the player who didn't perform the first two seasons he was here.
Tevez can go feck himself, he's well gone but the fact remains his replacement (of sorts) has been a lesser player than he was.

It's not a fact just because you say it is. Berbatov has been better for Manchester United than Tévez for Manchester United.

So far in the league Berbatov has scored or created a goal every 111.6 mins for us on average, Tévez for us was every 162 mins.

Including FA Cup and European stats would probably bring Tevez closer but the gap would still be significant.

And have you already forgotten how Tévez would dribble his way out of possession, or frequently scuff a shot from inside 10 yards, or be completely out of position because of his tracking back? He could be incredibly frustrating at times.

 

[I'm always right]

It's not a fact just because you say it is. Berbatov has been better for Manchester United than Tévez for Manchester United.

So far in the league Berbatov has scored or created a goal every 111.6 mins for us on average, Tévez for us was every 162 mins.

Including FA Cup and European stats would probably bring Tevez closer but the gap would still be significant.

And have you already forgotten how Tévez would dribble his way out of possession, or frequently scuff a shot from inside 10 yards, or be completely out of position because of his tracking back? He could be incredibly frustrating at times.

.... bites tongue...

 

[Ekeke]

We've yet to see Rooney and Berbatov both on form when playing together. Their next few matches when played together should tell us if thats even possible.

 

[TheMancRedDevil]

We've yet to see Rooney and Berbatov both on form when playing together. Their next few matches when played together should tell us if thats even possible.

Doesn't the fact that both players have now been playing together for the best part of three seasons now and yet people can still say things like that tell us anything here?

 

[Ekeke]

Doesn't the fact that both players have now been playing together for the best part of three seasons now and yet people can still say things like that tell us anything here?

Yes it does.

But even if there are two players who hate each other and are on two completely different wavelengths, they might after such a long time playing together, eventually find their rhythm and play their best next to one another.

So there should be no reason why Rooney and Berbatov cant play near their best football together. But we're still waiting to see it and if doesnt happen now, it never will.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

It's not a fact just because you say it is. Berbatov has been better for Manchester United than Tévez for Manchester United.

So far in the league Berbatov has scored or created a goal every 111.6 mins for us on average, Tévez for us was every 162 mins.

Including FA Cup and European stats would probably bring Tevez closer but the gap would still be significant.

And have you already forgotten how Tévez would dribble his way out of possession, or frequently scuff a shot from inside 10 yards, or be completely out of position because of his tracking back? He could be incredibly frustrating at times.

Apples and oranges. I find Berba incredibly frustrating at times. Same went for Tevez.

They both have their positives and negatives. One is all skill, the other is all energy. Both work well.

And I still want Hernandez starting over Berba because he makes runs Berba doesn't and that suits our team better.

 

[Ekeke]

Tevez has plenty of skill.

 

[Shimo]

Doesn't the fact that both players have now been playing together for the best part of three seasons now and yet people can still say things like that tell us anything here?

Unless you are ignoring this season, Rooney and Berbatov have looked increasingly better together, there is a far better understanding between the two.

What has happened though is for a multitude of reasons, during away games the two have looked anything but, a devastating partnership that they should be with their quality.

First season it was Berbatov kind of playing higher up but, then you had the game revolve a lot around Ronaldo, last season Rooney got played up top with Berbatov dropping back and even then between injuries and playing 1 striker, the partnership didn't really have much continuity. This season now we've switched to Berba up top and Rooney behind and it is just recently that Rooney is finding the form to play as the deeper lying striker, so would be interesting now finally with the understanding the two have, Berbatov's improved finishing this season and a Rooney that can create for him, much like he did for Chicha, how the partnership fares.

 

[Commadus]

Unless you are ignoring this season, Rooney and Berbatov have looked increasingly better together, there is a far better understanding between the two.

What has happened though is for a multitude of reasons, during away games the two have looked anything but, a devastating partnership that they should be with their quality.First season it was Berbatov kind of playing higher up but, then you had the game revolve a lot around Ronaldo, last season Rooney got played up top with Berbatov dropping back and even then between injuries and playing 1 striker, the partnership didn't really have much continuity. This season now we've switched to Berba up top and Rooney behind and it is just recently that Rooney is finding the form to play as the deeper lying striker, so would be interesting now finally with the understanding the two have, Berbatov's improved finishing this season and a Rooney that can create for him, much like he did for Chicha, how the partnership fares.

Berba and Rooney will need to change the way they play to improve this. it's been said countless times and even mentioned by Mclaren that Berba comes towards the ball when Rooney has it this constricts the play and unless a midfielder runs into the vacated space or a wide man then it just ends up clogging our midfield.

In away games the home team pushes up more as they dont fear a ball over the top if Berba has to chase it so the game gets more compressed. Last season our away form was better because more often than not it was Rooney pushing the defenders back and making space.

For it to work in away games we need to push Rooney up top and Berba deeper. But then we lose the energy of Rooney from a deeper position. It's swings and roundabouts. In home games where defenders sit deep then pulling a defender away like Berba does is the exact way to open up defences and its why Berba has been more succesful at home.

 

[Ekeke]

Unless you are ignoring this season, Rooney and Berbatov have looked increasingly better together, there is a far better understanding between the two.

What has happened though is for a multitude of reasons, during away games the two have looked anything but, a devastating partnership that they should be with their quality.

First season it was Berbatov kind of playing higher up but, then you had the game revolve a lot around Ronaldo, last season Rooney got played up top with Berbatov dropping back and even then between injuries and playing 1 striker, the partnership didn't really have much continuity. This season now we've switched to Berba up top and Rooney behind and it is just recently that Rooney is finding the form to play as the deeper lying striker, so would be interesting now finally with the understanding the two have, Berbatov's improved finishing this season and a Rooney that can create for him, much like he did for Chicha, how the partnership fares.

In his first season Berbatov was the deepest he's been by far. There were times we needed a goal and he was staying within 10 yards of the center circle, looking to pick players out from there and making play instead of getting into the box and trying to get on the end of things.

 

[Shimo]

In his first season Berbatov was the deepest he's been by far. There were times we needed a goal and he was staying within 10 yards of the center circle, looking to pick players out from there and making play instead of getting into the box and trying to get on the end of things.

Maybe I have it backwards but, recall at the start of last season SAF saying he made the mistake of playing Berbatov too high up and then started the season with Rooney playing up top and Berbatov playing deeper. The #9 started playing the #10 role and vice-versa.

That was some of the frustration people had though because he was supposed to be higher up the pitch but, often didn't end up in the box as a typical #9.

@Commodus - our away form and that of the strikers, you have a point but, I think it is more than just that. We've been rather woeful centrally and our strikers, especially whoever is highest up the pitch, whether that is the lonestriker or the 2nd of the two strikers, has been quite anonymous for most of those games. To me the problem is not with whoever that person is but, more to do with how we are playing behind them.

 

[Ekeke]

Maybe I have it backwards but, recall at the start of last season SAF saying he made the mistake of playing Berbatov too high up and then started the season with Rooney playing up top and Berbatov playing deeper. The #9 started playing the #10 role and vice-versa.

Yes you have it completely backwards. Sir Alex said he made a mistake playing Berbatov so deep

In actual fact the first few games Berbatov played he did play far forward, although some of them were with Tevez and not Rooney. Then after a couple of matches we saw him playing a more "specialised" role you'd expect to see the likes of Kaka or Silva play in the hole behind the striker.

That was some of the frustration people had though because he was supposed to be higher up the pitch but, often didn't end up in the box as a typical #9.

He was playing as a deep 10, like Rooney does in some away matches. And he would barely ever be in the box. Even after he passed the ball and had time to get in the box before a cross was played he'd stand outside the box looking for a pass instead. There were few times he was getting in there and plenty of matches where he didnt manage a single shot because of this. Along with 9 league goals, thats where your frustration came from.

 

[Ekeke]

@Commodus - our away form and that of the strikers, you have a point but, I think it is more than just that. We've been rather woeful centrally and our strikers, especially whoever is highest up the pitch, whether that is the lonestriker or the 2nd of the two strikers, has been quite anonymous for most of those games. To me the problem is not with whoever that person is but, more to do with how we are playing behind them.

Sir Alex disagrees though, pointing out he expects more from those 2 away from home. And after playing a match or two and not delivering on that front, recently we havent seen the 2 of them together in away matches.

Hernandez has come in and been a threat all the time

 

[Name Changed]

It's not a fact just because you say it is. Berbatov has been better for Manchester United than Tévez for Manchester United.

So far in the league Berbatov has scored or created a goal every 111.6 mins for us on average, Tévez for us was every 162 mins.

Including FA Cup and European stats would probably bring Tevez closer but the gap would still be significant.

And have you already forgotten how Tévez would dribble his way out of possession, or frequently scuff a shot from inside 10 yards, or be completely out of position because of his tracking back? He could be incredibly frustrating at times.

When you put it like that, I now realise that that Tevez guy is absolutely muck.

 

[Treble]

We've yet to see Rooney and Berbatov both on form when playing together. Their next few matches when played together should tell us if thats even possible.

We've seen it in several home fixtures this season, e.g. Blackburn, Valencia, Sunderland, Birmingham, Villa. We've scored 18 goals in those games, Berbatov scored 10 and Rooney 2.

The main problem is their partnership in away games. At home they play quite well together.

 

[Name Changed]

Who is the best partnership?

Rooney & Berbatov?
Hernandez & Rooney?
Berbatov & Hernandez?

 

[MrK]

Who is the best partnership?

Rooney & Berbatov?
Hernandez & Rooney?
Berbatov & Hernandez?

I don't think you can pick an unequivocal 'best', it really is horses for courses. Hernandez forces the opposition to stay deep even when they're putting the pressure on us, and that benefits us massively in certain games. In games where we take the game to the opposition I think some of Cheech's natural qualities are nullified, and Berbatov's close control, strength on the ball and delicate playmaking can be of more use to us.

It's worth noting that in seasons past United would dominate the majority of their league games in a season, whereas this season it's really just been home games that it's happened with regularity. I think Cheech has been lucky to join us in a season where his natural abilities prove extremely useful to us, and we're lucky to have him this season for the same reason.

 

[B Cantona]

You can't knock Berba for what he is not - ie a pacy forward like Hernandez but sometimes it takes a different approach against obdurate defensive teams.

Rooney / Berba / Hernandez have 45 goals between them if they collectively get 60 - that is freaking awesome.

Add in Nani we already have 55 goals amongst our top 4 players.

If I have time I will look back over the last 5 years and add up the number of goals our top 4 players have scored. Will be interesting.

Fans complained when we were over reliant on one player now they complain when we have the goals shared out.

I'm not seeing the complaint you reference?

I do think some struggle with the concept that a player can perform well, but there may still be a better option available. Those upset that Berbatov is dropped, or feel he's been harshly done by, can't really see the wood for the trees

 

[Lynk]

Who is the best partnership?

Rooney & Berbatov?
Hernandez & Rooney?
Berbatov & Hernandez?

Hernandez and Rooney. They compliment each other perfectly and pose our biggest threat to bigger teams.

 

[Feeky Magee]

ESPN just making the point I was making earlier re: Tévez chasing back so much that he's knackered and leaves his team short up front when they attack.

 

[Shimo]

Sir Alex disagrees though, pointing out he expects more from those 2 away from home. And after playing a match or two and not delivering on that front, recently we havent seen the 2 of them together in away matches.

Hernandez has come in and been a threat all the time

We've not seen them together in home matches either, so your point regarding what SAF said about those two in away matches hardly is relevant.

Not sure what you are saying Sir Alex disagrees with either, yes he said that they need to do more away from home but, how does that equate to him disagreeing the rest of the team during aways have not been up to par which has affected their performances as well?

Obviously he expects more from them both away from home, we all do - they are the star players but, when you've got the rest of the team struggling to create opportunities, they are hardly going to set the world on fire or do you think SAF disagrees with that assessment?

 

[Ekeke]

We've seen it in several home fixtures this season, e.g. Blackburn, Valencia, Sunderland, Birmingham, Villa. We've scored 18 goals in those games, Berbatov scored 10 and Rooney 2.

The main problem is their partnership in away games. At home they play quite well together.

Thats been Berbatov at his best, and Rooney not that good.

Last season it was Rooney at his best, Berbatov not that good.

I'm not saying we havent seen one of them on fire, with the other as their partner. I'm saying we havent seen what we all hoped when we signed Berbatov, which was both Rooney and Berbatov at their best together.

Its made all the more interesting as Hernandez seems to have been at his best with Berbatov (while Berbatov continued to be in hot form) and now at his best with Rooney also at his best.

 

[Ekeke]

We've not seen them together in home matches either, so your point regarding what SAF said about those two in away matches hardly is relevant.

Not sure what you are saying Sir Alex disagrees with either, yes he said that they need to do more away from home but, how does that equate to him disagreeing the rest of the team during aways have not been up to par which has affected their performances as well?

Sir Alex rarely comes out and says that a combination of starting players arent doing enough. And if he felt the midfield were doing just as bad he'd have said so. He picked Berbatov and Rooney out for a reason. And since that time he's seen fit to change it. It couldnt be more clear what he thinks.

Obviously he expects more from them both away from home, we all do - they are the star players but, when you've got the rest of the team struggling to create opportunities, they are hardly going to set the world on fire or do you think SAF disagrees with that assessment?

Other players and combinations are doing exactly that.

 

[Treble]

Thats been Berbatov at his best, and Rooney not that good.

Last season it was Rooney at his best, Berbatov not that good.

I'm not saying we havent seen one of them on fire, with the other as their partner. I'm saying we havent seen what we all hoped when we signed Berbatov, which was both Rooney and Berbatov at their best together.

Its made all the more interesting as Hernandez seems to have been at his best with Berbatov (while Berbatov continued to be in hot form) and now at his best with Rooney also at his best.

Rooney was fantastic against Blackburn, Valencia and Birmingham. He didn't score but was hugely influential in those games, no less influential than in his recent games.