Indeed. That is why he is currently the EPL's top scorer with most of his goals coming at OT this season. A ground where domestic opponents always park the bus. Bravo to the observation. They were so wrong weren't they?
Dimitar Berbatov | 2010/11 Performances
- Thread starter Commadus
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Yes. Yes they were.
He's not a superstar, he hasnt scored 25-30 goals a season and he hasnt been the key to breaking teams down.
They couldnt have been much more wrong
As my memory's shit, could you remind me who was up top in our recent couple of away defeats?
Im loving Hernandez' run of form right now, but if there are two things that are 100% certain, its that this form wont last indefinitely and that he will pick up injuries. Same goes for Rooney and Berbatov.
No matter what grumbles some may have about the vintage of this current side vs previous ones, there can be no doubt that we have a great squad with genuine depth. Having top strikers not getting games is part of that deal. Its called competing for places. Its a situation every top club in Europe is desperate for.
Berbatov of all players knows that better than most given that when he signed, we had Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo and Giggs all playing sensational attacking football. Tevez had to make space for him as he is now having to make space for Hernandez.
Tevez of course spat his dummy out (literally) but we had space for him in the squad... just as we do Berbatov but Tevez was not a 'squad' kind of guy. And I don't think Berbatov is a dickhead in the way Tevez is and is mature and team oriented enough to understand that we need a squad to be successful on multiple fronts and that SAF picks what he considers to be the best team for the specific job. Especially this season, Im sure he does not take it personally that SAF is not picking him.
As many have already pointed out, between now and the end of the season, either Rooney or Hernandez will lose form, need resting or worst luck, pick up an injury. Berbatov needs to be ready and waiting to slot right back in and perform.
In summary, I think some fans are making this a bigger issue that it is. Berbatov loves it at United, is genuinely honoured to be at our club and will do whatever it takes to stay with us - That Im sure of.
No matter what grumbles some may have about the vintage of this current side vs previous ones, there can be no doubt that we have a great squad with genuine depth. Having top strikers not getting games is part of that deal. Its called competing for places. Its a situation every top club in Europe is desperate for.
Berbatov of all players knows that better than most given that when he signed, we had Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo and Giggs all playing sensational attacking football. Tevez had to make space for him as he is now having to make space for Hernandez.
Tevez of course spat his dummy out (literally) but we had space for him in the squad... just as we do Berbatov but Tevez was not a 'squad' kind of guy. And I don't think Berbatov is a dickhead in the way Tevez is and is mature and team oriented enough to understand that we need a squad to be successful on multiple fronts and that SAF picks what he considers to be the best team for the specific job. Especially this season, Im sure he does not take it personally that SAF is not picking him.
As many have already pointed out, between now and the end of the season, either Rooney or Hernandez will lose form, need resting or worst luck, pick up an injury. Berbatov needs to be ready and waiting to slot right back in and perform.
In summary, I think some fans are making this a bigger issue that it is. Berbatov loves it at United, is genuinely honoured to be at our club and will do whatever it takes to stay with us - That Im sure of.
I just think of the times when there have been rumours about clubs like Real Madrid sniffing around our best players.
Imagine a club sniffing around Giggs and Scholes back in the day? Beckham. Ronaldo. Evra. Vidic. Rooney. Nani. We tend to get a bit pissed off about it because we don't want to lose these guys.
If a rumour came out that Real Madrid were interested in Berba, I just don't think there would be this "Oh noes!" kind of reaction from most fans. I suspect it would largely be, "How much are they offering? £25million!? Rip their fecking hand off!"
Imagine a club sniffing around Giggs and Scholes back in the day? Beckham. Ronaldo. Evra. Vidic. Rooney. Nani. We tend to get a bit pissed off about it because we don't want to lose these guys.
If a rumour came out that Real Madrid were interested in Berba, I just don't think there would be this "Oh noes!" kind of reaction from most fans. I suspect it would largely be, "How much are they offering? £25million!? Rip their fecking hand off!"
We've been here before. Berbatov has been written off many times so far, even this season, when he failed to score for about 2 months after the Liverpool game. And he scored 13 league goals in the next couple of months.
It's about cycles this season. At one moment it was Berbatov who was making the difference, then it was Nani, then Vidic, Hernandez, Rooney, then Berbatov and Nani once again etc. And at every of those moments fans were eager to come up with sweeping generalisations about who is important, who isn't, who should play, who is a liability etc.
Generalisations in football very often turn out to be groundless, if not stupid.
It's about cycles this season. At one moment it was Berbatov who was making the difference, then it was Nani, then Vidic, Hernandez, Rooney, then Berbatov and Nani once again etc. And at every of those moments fans were eager to come up with sweeping generalisations about who is important, who isn't, who should play, who is a liability etc.
Generalisations in football very often turn out to be groundless, if not stupid.
Hang on, £30 millions a lot of coin and Ferguson clearly thought there was value in the transfer, yet didn't think Tevez was worth £25 mil and also chose not to pursue Benzema over £25 mil or David Villa over a similar amount.
We're talking Berbatov, the best Fwd @ Spuds that season and got into the best 11 in the PL, thats the only reason why Berbs cost 30m.
Clearly Benze and Villa chose other teams over us, if they really wanted to come and SAF saw them in his future plans, we would have gotten them.
Clearly Benze and Villa chose other teams over us, if they really wanted to come and SAF saw them in his future plans, we would have gotten them.
If Rooney gets his customary injury after a great spell of form, then I think there'll be alot more appreciation for Berbatov once again.
Really? Then who are these players Fergie mentions we could have really went after but theres no value in the market? Fergie was clearly after a forward last summer but didn't wanna pay big bucks to get given another dud.
We overpaid because SAF was not going to lose out to City - perhaps it was a pyrrhic victory.
But we have paid the money the best thing to do now is to extend his contract as no one will pay big money for him knowing he has 12 months left.
Berbatov could be top scorer in the league and he'd get still get little appreciation, oh wait.
It's been a very strange season; there's Berbatov on 19, Tevez a goal behind then the next best scorer is Bent way down on 11.
Usually by late March, you'd have a few players in the twenties and plenty others in the high teens.
Whilst wishing not to defame Berbatov's scoring record in black and white, it must be said 11 of these goals came in just three games with another couple of braces meaning 15 goals came in just FIVE games leaving four goals from 20+ games.
Berbatov Man Utd 19
Tevez Man City 18
Bent Aston Villa 11
Carroll Liverpool 11
Nolan Newcastle 11
Hernandez Man Utd 10
Van der Vaart Tottenham 10
Van Persie Arsenal 10
Cahill Everton 9
Campbell Blackpool 9
Dempsey Fulham 9
Drogba Chelsea 9
Elmander Bolton 9
Gyan Sunderland 9
Malouda Chelsea 9
It is a fair point SR but it is also fair to deem it harsh. He did play quite well in some of his non scoring games.
But it reminds me ever so slightly of Andy Cole's debut season. When his 5 goals at home to Ipswich papered over what was a very average 6 months with Utd which continued for the next 2 years too before he got going.
But it reminds me ever so slightly of Andy Cole's debut season. When his 5 goals at home to Ipswich papered over what was a very average 6 months with Utd which continued for the next 2 years too before he got going.
Worth pointing out Hernandez's goals to minute ratio shits all over Berbatov's, which is no slight on the latter, just indicative of what an impact the former has had
Rooney is almost always gunna get the nod because at his best he's untouchable, so its a straight fight for that second striker spot, and that's assuming we're not playing one up front
Tough luck Berba. Two ways of responding, lets hope he chooses the right way against Bolton
Rooney is almost always gunna get the nod because at his best he's untouchable, so its a straight fight for that second striker spot, and that's assuming we're not playing one up front
Tough luck Berba. Two ways of responding, lets hope he chooses the right way against Bolton
Well as I say, I'm not defaming it because the record books will show he scored a good few goals in the 2010/11 season and if we win the league, it won't show we did it pretty unconvincingly as we have been pretty much all season, that's what I'm saying.
There's plenty of grey the black and white don't show.
Regardless, his goal return is still good yes but I don't agree with most that he's had a 'fantastic' season, I agree he's been fantastic in parts of this season but they don't equate to a whole season as there have been several games he has been less than average in.
I've mentioned this before and the usual response is 'so has Rooney, so have the who team to be fair etc' which I totally agree with but we're discussing Berbatov here and can use others as mitigating factors but you look at Hernandez on 16 goals in his debut season with over ten games left to play; currently, he's bettering Solskjaer in his debut season who finished with 19 goals averaging a strike rate of a goal every 2.42 games whereas Chico has one in 2.06 at this point in time.
Berbatov has a current strike rate of a goal every 1.65 games (20 goals in 33 appearances), yet were you to take out the five v Blackburn and the two hat-tricks meaning removing the three games, then you have 9 goals in 30 appearances, or one in every 3.33 games resulting in a significantly lower return in the games in-between.
Of course he DID score these goals so you can't take these away and I don't wish to, I'm using these an example to demonstrate his less than effective areas in the rest of the games.
You'd have to think given more opportunity, Hernandez could've tucked plenty more away in that time and I have good reason to think he'll grab another four or five before the season is out.
Criminal that Rooney can play like a pudding for months, request to leave the club, get a big pay rise, continue to play like a pudding and yet Berbatov who is our leading goalscorer and classiest player and never complains when he is benched gets the piss taken out of him by Ferguson.
Piss poor management.
Piss poor management.
TLDR - If you take out some of the goals that he's scored, Berbatov's stats look less impressive.
I had to Google what TLDR meant, you little Gen Y Test Tube baby...
For the previous post, what constitutes him as our 'classiest' player, becuase he can trap the ball beautifully? He still doesn't and has never yet done the biz against our domestic rivals or in Europe, so whereas Rooney made a complete twunt out of himself, he does do the biz in the big games, as did Tevez, Ronaldo, Saha, Ruud, Cole, Yorke, Solskjaer and Cantona before him.
Someone quite rightly pointed out Rooney and Ronaldo hadn't scored in the CL for years and against Chelsea domestically, but then both scored and took off from there; it was a different comparison though because Ronaldo and Rooney both got their duck-breaking goals against Roma in the QF's when it mattered, and Rooney scored against Chelsea and has done since and Ronaldo scored against them in the CL Final when it truly mattered.
Both also had a great record scoring against Arsenal whereas The Berb hasn't a good record scoring against any of the Big Teams...
I hated Rooney for doing what he did but let's be honest, we're all fickle football fans and the fact is he is doing the biz RIGHT now, when it matters against the big teams and Berbatov isn't and has never done so.
Ferguson's poor management has gotten us into the FA Cup Semis and the CL QF's...
The piss poor management I refer to was not about team selection but the manager laughing about a player behind his back.
Slight exaggeration. Hernández is at a goal every 109 minutes overall I think, and Berba has a goal every 101.5 in the Prem. Considering Berba has only made 7 other appearances (some sub) in other comps with 1 goal, it won't be much of a difference between them. They both legitimately shit all over Rooney this season.
You mean as opposed to screaming in his face, also known as The Hairdryer, which he's dished out to almost each United player since 1986?
I find it amusing Fergie can have a giggle at his playing staff's expense, for whatever reason it was about as we all don't know although suspect it was because Berb look peeved, he might have been laughing as he had a tarantula crawling down the back of his jacket, it could have been his baldy heed, who knows?
What terrible, awful things Ferguson does, smiling at his players behind their backs, awwww......
You're good at manipulating fact; Hernandez has a goal every 2.06 games (or appearances as a good deal were as sub) whereas Berbatov has a goal every 1.65 games (or appearances, as he's been sub also).
These are the plain facts, HOWEVER as I mentioned earlier, you take away the three games in which he scored three or more and you get a goal every 3.33 appearances, which only further decreases if you detract the two braces he scored, meaning he has scored 15 out of 20 in just five games, meaning there have been an actual 23 games he's featured in which he hasn't scored in!
Pretty incredible fact really....
Why would you take them away?
Rooney got 4 goals, a couple of hatricks and several braces as part of his 34 last year if I recall correctly and I didn't hear it said once "yeah well, if you take them away...". I've heard it so much about Berbatov, I'm beginning to think there's some sort of agenda against him....
Rooney got 4 goals, a couple of hatricks and several braces as part of his 34 last year if I recall correctly and I didn't hear it said once "yeah well, if you take them away...". I've heard it so much about Berbatov, I'm beginning to think there's some sort of agenda against him....
What I'm trying to show you is that Berbatov hasn't had a great season - he's had several good games but there's been plenty of games and of which, lengthy periods, he's not scored.
Now I'm aware goals aren't the be all, but I have seen every United match this year and I can tell you there's been plenty of games in which he's not scored where he's also not played well. Not that he's the only one, but we're not talking about others, we're talking about him.
The fact remains Rooney and Hernandez are playing well at this point in time, and scoring.
Do you agree there have been several games in which Berbatov hasn't scored and of those quite lengthy periods as well?
Yes, of course I agree. There was long periods where Rooney didn't score last season too, that doesn't mean he wasn't fecking brilliant in general though. What I would disagree is with your assertion that Berba has had long periods of not playing well - he hasn't. There was the famous time you tried to argue he'd had 10 shite games when he went 10 without scoring, when he'd been excellent in a few, good or decent in most, and poor in just two.
I also disagree with the assertion that he hasn't had a great season, unless your definition of a great season is very, very harsh and limited to the top 2 or 3 performers in the country.
I also disagree with the assertion that he hasn't had a great season, unless your definition of a great season is very, very harsh and limited to the top 2 or 3 performers in the country.
League games
Berbatov also hasn't scored in any of the league cups, FA Cups or Champions League either this season, his other goal to make up the 20 is the goal in the Charity Shield, I didn't even know those were counted in the final figures as they never used to be.
Berbatov also hasn't scored in any of the league cups, FA Cups or Champions League either this season, his other goal to make up the 20 is the goal in the Charity Shield, I didn't even know those were counted in the final figures as they never used to be.
If I recall correctly, the only domestic cup game he played was Liverpool, where he won the game-winning penalty.
Then in the CL, he was decent but isolated against Valencia (still managed to have our only two decent efforts before the goal), poor against Bursa but still set up the breakthrough goal, good away to Rangers, decent at home to Valencia without his finishing boots on, and isolated against Marseille, decent on the ball.
It's really not as bad as you're making out.
Then in the CL, he was decent but isolated against Valencia (still managed to have our only two decent efforts before the goal), poor against Bursa but still set up the breakthrough goal, good away to Rangers, decent at home to Valencia without his finishing boots on, and isolated against Marseille, decent on the ball.
It's really not as bad as you're making out.
I refer you to my last post which shows the length of games Berbatov hasn't scored in this season (periods of 9 games and then 7 being the current drought at this point in time).
Now refer to this link;
2009
You claim Rooney went long periods without scoring; clearly, he didn't, he went three games max right up until getting injured in late March in a game in which he scored.
Please refer to this link;
2008
You will see both Rooney and Ronaldo's names on the scoresheets very consistently with both going no more than four or five games without a goal.
Please refer to this link;
2008
Aside from a few games he was injured, from late September, you will see Ronaldo's name extremely consistently the whole season through.
Again I share your sentiment goals don't mean everything but consistency does to claim it a good season as a whole, whereas Berbatov has been excellent in a handful of games, average to good in more but average to poor in more unfortunately - admit it....
And what else?
I'm not saying no-one else was shining that day because it was a crap game with an average team performance but what can you tell me about that game Berbatov did to great effect?
Criminal that Rooney can play like a pudding for months, request to leave the club, get a big pay rise, continue to play like a pudding and yet Berbatov who is our leading goalscorer and classiest player and never complains when he is benched gets the piss taken out of him by Ferguson.
Piss poor management.
This is the first time I am commenting on this. And I am trying to stay positive. However, laughing behind someone's back is not ethical, not to mention not a proper management.
I hope it is not as bad as it looks, whatever is that they laugh about. It's just that its been used against Berbatov on here and that is the sad thing.
Eh, no. Because it's not true. He's been our best player in more matches than anyone, in the top few performers just as much as anyone and has a handful of poor games. Your agenda is getting tiresome, to the point where your pointing to 12 goal seasons as an example of what he should be like.
Jesus, if you're going to treat everyone as harshly as Berbatov we'd be shipping more than a few out in the summer, Fletcher and Evra would be a disgrace this season under the Johnno rating system. He won the penalty in a 1-0, by memory he had a decent day, 35 points in the caf MotM system so I'd say that vindicates me. Or else we're all spastics, as you've tried to argue before.
Oh dear Lord, you lot are pathetic! If it was against Rooney or Owen or Carrick, everyone would be laughing their heads off, but you can't say a bad word about Berbatov because he's smoother than Sammy the Silkworm's satin pyjamas apparently and our 'classiest' player...
Oh give over, he's most likely just pointing out something humorous about his appearance, maybe his widow's peak, maybe even a joke about someone he looked like at that moment in time. It's practically a daily occurrence to nudge a mate and pointed out something about another's appearance or demeanour, or do you just stay inside all day for fear of upsetting someone?
You'd swear he put a dunce hat on Berba's head and made him dance whilst he, Phelan and the rest of the subs gathered around clapping and poking him with a stick.
Criminal that Rooney can play like a pudding for months, request to leave the club, get a big pay rise, continue to play like a pudding and yet Berbatov who is our leading goalscorer and classiest player and never complains when he is benched gets the piss taken out of him by Ferguson.
Piss poor management.
Ohh fecking come on! You didn't mean that seriously!
Fergie knows what he is doing.
I hope so too. No big deal.
The sad thing is, its being used against Berba and to be laughed at by fans.
This is absolutely spot fecking on!
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