Dimitar Berbatov | 2010/11 Performances

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Starkie_1 said:
Berbatov bashing is beyond the point of being embarrassing, those expecting him to score 20+ and run around chasing the ball back like a Smith/Tevez are the same kind of fans who would have you believe a prime Terry or Butcher is a better a defender than a prime Ferdinand or Nesta. It all comes to down to footballing preferences, some like to see desire, determination and effort whereas others (myself included) much prefer the technical skill based side of football.

Rooney is our main goalscorer, the team is built around the fact he can get us 20-30+ goals a season. Berbatov and now hopefully Hernandez are expected to chip in with 10-20 a season as a secondary source of goals. If you look at Berbatov's positions and main areas of possession in a game over the last 3 years its clear to see he hasn't been asked to be the type of player who receives the ball back to goal, holds it, lays and bombs into the box. His job is to create space, retain possession in difficult attacking areas of the pitch ( a job he is very good at, not often do you see him barged off the ball ) and release the ball to our wingers or an advancing midfielder and with the space created by a run or a full back having to go out wide to a winger Berbatov is then able to drift into the free areas. The problem we have is that we don't have a midfielder making those runs, opening up gaps. Scholes has tried to remedy this lately, a lot more than he has done in previous years, which has seen Berbatov's performances improve.
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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: What a load of rubbish. Don't patronise us, we understand the game as well as any person on this forum.

No one here was complaining about ronaldo never tracking back and acting like a drama queen every time he got foul. WHY?

Because he was an outstanding player.

Berbatov on the other hand doesn't score goals and doesn't work hard for the team. He's a luxury player who isn't moblie enough to lead the line and at times needs to be carried through games. He's a poor mans Sheringham or Cantona.
 
Sunny Jim said:
he scored the only goal against the Toffies and was argualby our best player on that day. Shame the rest of the team was below par.
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Well to say he made a difference in a game we lost 3-1 and we're outplayed for 80 minutes is laughable at best and delusional at worst.

P.S. His goal was a tap in from 2 yards out after a great run from valencia, if he isn't going to score those then whats the point.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Only he does score goals and does work hard for the team.

Carry on, though, don't let minor details like that get in the way of your rant.
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But not enough at this level. I'm sure he tries his very best every time he put on a united shirt. You can see it on his face that he really wants to do well, but he just doesn't know how.
 
Ruud_boy_10 said:
Well to say he made a difference in a game we lost 3-1 and we're outplayed for 80 minutes is laughable at best and delusional at worst.

P.S. His goal was a tap in from 2 yards out after a great run from valencia, if he isn't going to score those then whats the point.
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Someone claimed that Berbatov only scores meaningless goals in games we're running away with.

The goal against Everton is proof that this is not true. Ditto the goals against Sunderland, and Blackburn.

Dunno why this rattles your cage so much.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Only he does score goals and does work hard for the team.

Carry on, though, don't let minor details like that get in the way of your rant.
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But I think its more influencing games is what he does not do often enough. I would prefer that that from him rather than high scoring tally's.

I am trying not to compare his role to Eric. But honestly I thought that was the point of his purchase. Cantona was not overly prolific in the goal scoring stakes (best league total was 18 in a 42 game season). But he managed to stamp his mark on the majority of games he played in.

And that is not something we have seen from Berba. When has he ever walked off the pitch and everyone has been unanimous in praise saying if it were not for him we would not have won that game.

I will be slated for comparing him to Eric, but they have similar styles and should have similar end results. Also Eric was hardly flavour of the month when he joined us and there was a lot of doubters in regards to his signing. He turned that around in a matter of weeks.
 
Ruud_boy_10 said:
But not enough at this level. I'm sure he tries his very best every time he put on a united shirt. You can see it on his face that he really wants to do well, but he just doesn't know how.
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He averaged a goal every second start last season. For someone who was signed mainly to help us retain possession a bit better in the final third that's hardly a disastrous return. There's no doubt we haven't seen the very beat of Berbatov at United and that's disappointing. There's also no doubt the contribution he HAS made is getting under-played by a lot of fans.

Anyhoo, I'm not gonna get sucked into a monstrous Berba-debate again this season. I think it's a shame that some people can't recognise the decent start he's made to this season, or the role he played in helping us continue putting weak teams to the sword last season, despite losing both Ronaldo AND Tevez in the same summer.

It's a shame but it's gonna carry on regardless. Oh well, such is life.
 
Randall Fag said:
But I think its more influencing games is what he does not do often enough. I would prefer that that from him rather than high scoring tally's.

I am trying not to compare his role to Eric. But honestly I thought that was the point of his purchase. Cantona was not overly prolific in the goal scoring stakes (best league total was 18 in a 42 game season). But he managed to stamp his mark on the majority of games he played in.

And that is not something we have seen from Berba. When has he ever walked off the pitch and everyone has been unanimous in praise saying if it were not for him we would not have won that game.

I will be slated for comparing him to Eric, but they have similar styles and should have similar end results. Also Eric was hardly flavour of the month when he joined us and there was a lot of doubters in regards to his signing. He turned that around in a matter of weeks.
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Does Berbatov really need to match what Cantona achieved to provide an important contribution to the team?

Totally agree he hasn't come close to matching the expectations when we signed him (and Cantona massively exceeded his) but that doesn't mean Berbatov has been the complete flop many are painting him as.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Someone claimed that Berbatov only scores meaningless goals in games we're running away with.

The goal against Everton is proof that this is not true. Ditto the goals against Sunderland, and Blackburn.

Dunno why this rattles your cage so much.
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This doesn't rattle my anything. You made a point and I disagreed with you. Thats all. Don't read too much into it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Does Berbatov really need to match what Cantona achieved to provide an important contribution to the team?

Totally agree he hasn't come close to matching the expectations when we signed him (and Cantona massively exceeded his) but that doesn't mean Berbatov has been the complete flop many are painting him as.
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He does not need to match exactly what Cantona did. But I still don’t think it is unfair to ask for a much bigger contribution.

I don’t think he has been a total flop either (certainly not on Shevchenko proportions), but I just find it so frustrating that we have a player who if he was fully on his game on a very consistent basis Fergie would not even dream of dropping him.

I hope I eat my words, because coming up even at this early stage we have 3 vital games

Everton a
Liverpool h
Bolton a

And we need him to do the business in each of them
 
With the form and determination Berbatov has started - if the rest of the team play well, he'll be a force in all those games.

But, he can't do it all by himself. People are saying he faded yesterday but, Berbatov fades when we stop dominating midfield and aren't able to get him the ball consistently.

Happens to Rooney as well - they can't influence the game if we aren't getting the ball to them. Berbatov is a creator but, he is not a CM player who is going to get involved in the middle of the park constantly. If we are spreading the ball to the wings or unable to get balls to the strikers - then obviously he is going to fade.

The comments that he is alive when we are on top - that's true because when we are on top, we are able to get the ball to him and play off of him. When we aren't, when we are defending a lot or just working the ball out of the back - then obviously he isn't going to be as influential.

Even then the game yesterday when we were able to get him involved after he "faded" - he was still as positive and influential.

He isn't the Drogba, Torress type striker that can be anonymous through out a game and have a few good moments or get one shot, one goal and be deemed great. But, nonetheless he is a striker and for them to influence the game they need to see the ball, Berbatov more than any of the others because he is best when he is seeing the ball. He isn't best at trying to run defenders or cause problems with his movement.
 
Ruud_boy_10 said:
Well to say he made a difference in a game we lost 3-1 and we're outplayed for 80 minutes is laughable at best and delusional at worst.

P.S. His goal was a tap in from 2 yards out after a great run from valencia, if he isn't going to score those then whats the point.
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1. we weren't out played - i made the very same mistake, stats proved me wrong

2. no, he didn't make a significant difference. it's hard to win a game on your own though

3. his goal was a tap in? so what? Ronaldo, RvN scored gazillions of those. do they not count?

4. I'm not a fan of Berbatov, frankly i was hoping he would be sold after his first season but i am able to give credit where it's due. He played very well in that game against Everton, there's no question bout that.
 
Randall Fag said:
He does not need to match exactly what Cantona did. But I still don’t think it is unfair to ask for a much bigger contribution.

I don’t think he has been a total flop either (certainly not on Shevchenko proportions), but I just find it so frustrating that we have a player who if he was fully on his game on a very consistent basis Fergie would not even dream of dropping him.

I hope I eat my words, because coming up even at this early stage we have 3 vital games

Everton a
Liverpool h
Bolton a

And we need him to do the business in each of them
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If his record is anything to go by, he will do nothing agains teams like Everton, Liverpool and Bolton.

Give him time and space against team like Newcaste and he can do a job.
 
gaffs said:
If his record is anything to go by, he will do nothing agains teams like Everton, Liverpool and Bolton.

Give him time and space against team like Newcaste and he can do a job.
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Scored against Everton, (match-winning) goal against Bolton, assist against Liverpool.

More of the same would do just fine, thanks.

EDIT: make that two goals vs bolton, thanks olly.
 
Shimo said:
With the form and determination Berbatov has started - if the rest of the team play well, he'll be a force in all those games.

But, he can't do it all by himself. People are saying he faded yesterday but, Berbatov fades when we stop dominating midfield and aren't able to get him the ball consistently.

Happens to Rooney as well - they can't influence the game if we aren't getting the ball to them. Berbatov is a creator but, he is not a CM player who is going to get involved in the middle of the park constantly. If we are spreading the ball to the wings or unable to get balls to the strikers - then obviously he is going to fade.

The comments that he is alive when we are on top - that's true because when we are on top, we are able to get the ball to him and play off of him. When we aren't, when we are defending a lot or just working the ball out of the back - then obviously he isn't going to be as influential.

Even then the game yesterday when we were able to get him involved after he "faded" - he was still as positive and influential.

He isn't the Drogba, Torress type striker that can be anonymous through out a game and have a few good moments or get one shot, one goal and be deemed great. But, nonetheless he is a striker and for them to influence the game they need to see the ball, Berbatov more than any of the others because he is best when he is seeing the ball. He isn't best at trying to run defenders or cause problems with his movement.
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I agree with some of that, but if he find he is not getting the ball, then he should go and get himself involved in the game. That doesn't mean that he should go running back and defending, it means making himself available in different areas of the pitch. At the very least, it drags the defender around and makes space for others.

He cant afford to switch off during games just because things are going against us. If a player does "relax" for 10 mins, then its very hard to get back into the rhythm of the game again.

He started ok on Sunday, then we had a tough period in the middle of the game. After that, he didn't look at the races.
 
He won't even play against Liverpool most likely. Considering how successful City have just been with the 433 we'll probably line up similar with Nani and Valencia in support of Rooney. Could well do the same with Everton considering they beat us 3-1 last season.

He's had an excellent pre-season and he's looked much better in his first two games. Scored 1 and assisted 1. Agree there is still room for improvement from him, but anytime he ever does something of note it's downplayed because he's not done it against a brilliant team.
 
He scored the only goal against Bolton the season before last, and also against Middlesborough. Without his goals in those games, in which we struggled, we would not have won the league that season...
 
kouroux said:
It's time to decide what Berba should be judged on ? Goals or performances ? Or both ?
If he scores (winning goals)and plays like shit then it's fine by me.You can't have everything
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well he's not a goalscorer so performances. A goalscorer like Ruud will always score so not many people complained about his general play, which to be fair was quite limited.

Berbatov is supposed to be a creative force, so his actual performances truly matter.
 
Sunny Jim said:
1. we weren't out played - i made the very same mistake, stats proved me wrong

2. no, he didn't make a significant difference. it's hard to win a game on your own though

3. his goal was a tap in? so what? Ronaldo, RvN scored gazillions of those. do they not count?

4. I'm not a fan of Berbatov, frankly i was hoping he would be sold after his first season but i am able to give credit where it's due. He played very well in that game against Everton, there's no question bout that.
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1. SAF claimed Everton were the better side, but that is besides the point.

2. He hasn't done anything significant in a united shirt.

3. Of course they count. The difference is that Ruud and Ronaldo scored about 30+ tap ins.

4. Thats just your opinion, its not a fact.
 
Boss said:
well he's not a goalscorer so performances. A goalscorer like Ruud will always score so not many people complained about his general play, which to be fair was quite limited.

Berbatov is supposed to be a creative force, so his actual performances truly matter.
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If that creative force wins you a match why the criticism (not saying it's from you Boss)?
 
I think Berbatov is generally very good with the ball at his feet, although at times he does hold on to it far too long and eventually give a pass he could have given 10 seconds earlier without someone pressuring him. The problem for me is off the ball, his movement seems to mainly be effective in the middle of the park. I'd love to see more movement off the ball in a more advanced position far more often (although the last two games he has slightly improved so fingers crossed). There was an instance which epitomised my frustration with him vs Fulham, he was ambling back from an offside position when someone won the ball and it arrived at his feet offside.

I sometimes wonder what he'd be like in an advanced midfield position, given how he seems to have more freedom when he drops very deep.

/edit: Another problem is that I always think he's a genius against the lower teams when we're already winning, which isn't much use (I know sometimes he may have scored in other situations but I mean generally). The great thing about the likes of Ruud/Ronaldo/even Tevez is that it seemed a lot of their goals came at important times.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
:wenger:
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http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={671CF63E-EAF1-4231-AD3D-8A37AEDE301C}&pollid=2779

The fact that only 1 in 5 supporters think he should be in our first 11 kind of supports his view. Also with over 70% thinking a player who has played 1 Premier League game should be preferred.
 
finneh said:
http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={671CF63E-EAF1-4231-AD3D-8A37AEDE301C}&pollid=2779

The fact that only 1 in 5 supporters think he should be in our first 11 kind of supports his view. Also with 70% thinking a player who has played 1 Premier League game should be preferred.
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That poll says more about the average IQ of internet football fans than it does about anything else.
 
Ruud_boy_10 said:
This doesn't rattle my anything. You made a point and I disagreed with you. Thats all. Don't read too much into it.
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I like this response.

Berbatov has had tendency to do it when it least matters, or do it more often when it doesn't. There's a reason why Tevez in his first season despite not scoring bucket loads was thought of as having made a good impact at OT, and Berbatov in his two years the opposite. Because Tevez was making an impact at United whereas Berbatov was just moping around, once in awhile scoring a goal that more often than not wasn't all that important or at an important time.

I must clarify that I use this only to highlight a point. PLEASE do not begin any long drawn out comparisons between the two. I'm regretting saying that!

But he's looking good this season. I don't think he's ever going to be a player who has a lot of bottle. He's probably more likely to score at 0-0 than at 0-1. But when the team is playing well, he can be brilliant, and that's a good asset to have.

I still think this will a good season for him.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That poll says more about the average IQ of internet football fans than it does about anything else.
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Exactly.

Berbatov has played well in the 3 games this season. My only criticism is that he needs to be more clinical. He had a number of half chances at 1-0 yesterday and he really needs to be taking at least 1 of those.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That poll says more about the average IQ of internet football fans than it does about anything else.
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I don't know about that, if you asked the same question about every team in the league I bet 95% of the time the fans views of their own players would be similar to that of pundits/managers.

/Edit: Also to be fair if Berbatov had performed as he has for 2 seasons for a lot of other big clubs in Europe (eg Barce/Real/Chelsea/Inter) he'd have almost certainly been shipped out by now. I like that we stick with our players, but he certainly hasn't even close to justified his place in the team.
 
finneh said:
I don't know about that, if you asked the same question about every team in the league I bet 95% of the time the fans views of their own players would be similar to that of pundits/managers.
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They would decide some random new signing - who'd never kicked a ball in the Premier League - should walk straight into the first XI?

Nah, that particular brand of idiocy is restricted to internet football fans. Which is why, funnily enough, the results of that poll have had feck all to do with the teams actually selected by SAF.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
They would decide some random new signing - who'd never kicked a ball in the Premier League - should walk straight into the first XI?

Nah, that particular brand of idiocy is restricted to internet football fans. Which is why, funnily enough, the results of that poll have had feck all to do with the teams actually selected by SAF.
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I'd say the reason that they feel he should walk straight into the first team is that apart from Rooney they don't see any real firepower up front. If Rooney doesn't score as many as last season most fans don't feel confident that Berbatov could even close to fill the void. The pundits I've heard on MUTV already expect Hernandez to score more than any of Berbatov's totals for Utd.
 
finneh said:
I'd say the reason that they feel he should walk straight into the first team is that apart from Rooney they don't see any real firepower up front. If Rooney doesn't score as many as last season most fans don't feel confident that Berbatov could even close to fill the void. The pundits I've heard on MUTV already expect Hernandez to score more than any of Berbatov's totals for Utd.
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Berbatov will never be a prolific goal-scorer but was central to some of our best team performances last season.

As for the pundits/poll I think we all saw at the weekend that dropping him for Hernandez would be insane.
 
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