Ok mate. Glad you aren't scouting for my team.
Dele Alli - Performance Thread 2017/18
- Thread starter IrishRedDevil
- Start date
Ok mate. Glad you aren't scouting for my team.
Why? You would have had Lingard over Alli this season and who's been better?
Lindgard is having his best season as a 25 year old, Alli is having his worst as a 21 year old, despite this he has 2 more goals and 2 more assists in 2 more games this season.
Stats are not everything, and I didn't think Lindgard would have a season as good as he's been having and fair play to him, but I'd have Alli everyday.
Alli is a very good player, but he's overrated at the same time imo. Very good but not world class, that's all.
You’re absolutely embarrassing yourself. He played his 100th league game yesterday and has 36 goals and 26 assists. That’s better than hazard, piers, mata, Ozil. It’s more goals in his first 100 games than Lampard, gerrard, scholes.
Lingard’s a good player no beef with him. But read your quote again and reassess. Take the blinkers off and assess without the bias. You’re letting yourself down.
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Alli will be 22 in 10 days. Lingard played 1400 mins, Alli played 2500 mins. Lets not abuse stats by talking about number of games when Lingard started only 16 games whereas Alli started 29.
I applaud you.
He hardly drops very deep when they lose the ball and he isn't exactly a creative genius like Eriksen, so if he's not a second striker then I don't know what he is. Don't get me wrong he's not a bad player and clearly has ability, he's just not that great when he isn't scoring. And he's also a complete turd.
As a neutral I would say Alli is much better than Lingard. And I despise him so I'd love to agree that he's average but he isn't.
Average is me being generous. He is clumsy, he doesn't know where his feet are half the time. Every so often something comes off for him and then he's suddenly a world beater again after being crap for months.
He's has shown more ability than Lingard but it doesn't mean he's that much better. The goal he scored yesterday is one that Jesse could score,no doubt.
His work rate isn't above Jesse's and he's not as quick. The thing is that he's playing in a side that's geared up to attack
that's absolutely ridiculous, he's gonna lose the ball every now and again because he's an attacking player and he's gonna try more risky passes (quite like Sanchez actually, *I'm sure you think he's a bit better than average....)
there's just no way you watch him on any sort of regular basis. His passing is excellent and his weight of pass at times is fantastic. He's decent in the air, he's got a brilliant knack of being in the right place to pop up with a goal. i can't believe on here arguing he's better than average.. he's scored 18 league goals last season, he's 21 FFS
That's fine, Lindgard has had a very good season, often coming up with important goals, he has surprised me. Can I ask why you think he isn't starting more games or playing more minutes? Does he contribute to a lot outside of goals and assists in your opinion?
Didn't mean to 'abuse stats' I just quickly checked games v goals/assists. My point was that it's unfair to suddenly compare a young player who is having a slower season with a player much older who is having his best season. There are certainly arguments for Lindgard having a better season if that's the point people are making.
Afraid I disagree. If Alli is a 'second striker' then so is Lindgard, Sanchez, Martial or whoever 3 players you have behind Lukaku on any given day. In possession Alli usually takes up more advanced positions than Eriksen because they have different qualities. But once we lose the ball Alli is expected to work hard to win it back and his work rate is great. He is part of the first line of defense who will chase balls and press the ball high, and if that press is beat he does drop deep to defend. In fact, one of the reasons Poch is sticking with him is because he is a player who can have a good game, also when he isn't scoring. That's just my opinion and one that differ from yours which is fine.
He has not had a fantastic season, that's fair to say, but thats' compared to the high standards he set previously.
They are both good players.
What a crock of shite
Alli has had a good season and is a better player than Lingard. I'd take Alli every time thanks.
Alli is better than Lingard for my money too but Alli has been average this season especially in terms of performances. Lingard has had the better season this season no doubt.
And who would Spurs have had the two seasons prior? See, this game is fun. Wait until the perceived evidence is in your favor and then claim the prognosticative glory. And even still Alli's numbers are better (same goals, more than double assists and key passes) than Lingards so your point has tenuous standing at best.
http://www.squawka.com/news/how-del...ue-greats-after-their-first-100-games/1026054
Shall we compare Lingard's first 100 games or are you just wisely willing to concede the point and slink back to you corner?
Allis is an annoying scrote, but a very talented annoying scrote.
8 goals and 9 assists is not terrible, nothing compared to his returns last season but definitely not bad. And still only 21, so much time to improve his game and become more consistent. Lingard is good, very good, but he's also 25 and should probably be compared with someone like Son from Spurs who is also 25 and plays a very similar role.
8 goals and 9 assists is not terrible, nothing compared to his returns last season but definitely not bad. And still only 21, so much time to improve his game and become more consistent. Lingard is good, very good, but he's also 25 and should probably be compared with someone like Son from Spurs who is also 25 and plays a very similar role.
Alli is obviously a very good player who's potential is higher than Lingard but Jesse is having a better season right now.
Judging on that plus the fact that he was one of England's best players in both of the friendlies right now, I'd say that he deserves to start over Alli at World Cup.
Plus there's also a fact that unlike the PL referees, Alli's general cuntishness would be gone unnoticed by the referees at the WC.
Judging on that plus the fact that he was one of England's best players in both of the friendlies right now, I'd say that he deserves to start over Alli at World Cup.
Plus there's also a fact that unlike the PL referees, Alli's general cuntishness would be gone unnoticed by the referees at the WC.
That's fine, Lindgard has had a very good season, often coming up with important goals, he has surprised me. Can I ask why you think he isn't starting more games or playing more minutes? Does he contribute to a lot outside of goals and assists in your opinion?
Didn't mean to 'abuse stats' I just quickly checked games v goals/assists. My point was that it's unfair to suddenly compare a young player who is having a slower season with a player much older who is having his best season. There are certainly arguments for Lindgard having a better season if that's the point people are making.
Afraid I disagree. If Alli is a 'second striker' then so is Lindgard, Sanchez, Martial or whoever 3 players you have behind Lukaku on any given day. In possession Alli usually takes up more advanced positions than Eriksen because they have different qualities. But once we lose the ball Alli is expected to work hard to win it back and his work rate is great. He is part of the first line of defense who will chase balls and press the ball high, and if that press is beat he does drop deep to defend. In fact, one of the reasons Poch is sticking with him is because he is a player who can have a good game, also when he isn't scoring. That's just my opinion and one that differ from yours which is fine.
He has not had a fantastic season, that's fair to say, but thats' compared to the high standards he set previously.
Sanchez and Martial are 2nd strikers if they play down the middle yes. Except they mostly play wide so its a bit irrelevant. Dont really know why anyone would consider them midfielders when they're central. Lingard is more adaptable perhaps but he does also play 2nd striker sometimes. Not really sure I get your point. 2nd strikers should still defend, running around doesn't mean you're not a forward. Being good at winning the ball and keeping possession in the midfield makes you a midfielder.
I don't care about their first 100 games, how is that even relevant. We are talking about the players as they are now. Alli isn't good now and he never will be. When he plays poorly it's always down to his 'age or inexperience', when he's 28 people will have to come up with a new excuse.
I didn't wait until the perceived evidence was in my favour, I have been saying Dele Alli is crap for 3 seasons. It's only this season that others had started to realise how average his is. Now hes gone and scored 2 good goals against Chelsea and suddenly he's world class again. Play me as a second striker every game of the season and i'll score a couple of decent goals here and there.
Really? Last season as a 20 yr old he achieved 18 goals and 7 assists, who anywhere has done that at such a young age in a top league? This season he isnt as bad as people are making out, 8 goals and 9 assists. Inconsistencies are always going to be a thing for young players. It was the general consensus about Eriksen when he was younger, going missing or having extended poor form. There wouldnt be too many teams in world football who would turn down Eriksen if he became available nowadays.
I mean just watching his first goal vs Chelsea you can see the guy has some real quality. But I agree Lingard has had the better season out of both players.
Arguing with BNB about Dele is like arguing with Glaston about anything. A complete waste of your time.
Listen, I only get 3 posts and if you are going to dig your heels in then this is useless.
I'm pretty sure you would be elated if Lingard scored 2 against Chelsea. This board was all aflutter when Rashford did it v Liverpool. I'm sure Spurs' supporters didn't feel the need to slag him off. That would be small time. Rashford is a good young player learning his trade in a good team and doing well. Lingard is all of that except young.
Well, it's clearly relevant as it gives a wider context. But if you say a wider context/100 games isn't relevant who am I to argue with such perspicacity. Were I a cynic I would say a person would want to ignore the wider context because it doesn't fit the narrative he's trying to sell. But luckily I'm not the cynical type.
Sure, we can talk about the players as they are now and I did exactly that when I said:
That's present day season tally to week 32. Can I even be more in the 'now'? Whose numbers are better? Goals scored: 8 each, Assists: 9 to 4 , Key passes: 51 to 20. I will let you figure out who owns which numbers. I will give you a hint: he doesn't play in red.
No need to stamp your feet it's just a discussion. I will say though that an absolute statement of certitude such as this does not portend success in having rational debate with someone on the other side. Still, we soldier on.
The point here is tough to make out. Are you implying, and boldly I might add, that when he indeed did play poorly he wasn't in fact young or inexperienced? Considering that he is now only 21 (22 this month) it would take a very bold person to claim that facts in evidence are indeed wrong. Are age and inexperience invalid explanations for poor performances in a 19, 20, and 21 year old? And even with his poor performances he is outpacing your claimed better player in Lingard (26 in December).
No one knows what will happen when he is 28. No need for the shade.
Congratulations sir, you have been wrong for 3 seasons! I admire your persistence in swimming against the tide. Again, does not bode well for having a rational debate with you.
Never was world class, if that has any objective meaning. Just a productive player learning his trade on a team growing and doing well. Some people enjoy that and don't get into measuring contest of who is world class, big club, blindly slagging other teams' players off, etc.
I'm pretty sure you would be elated if Lingard scored 2 against Chelsea. This board was all aflutter when Rashford did it v Liverpool. I'm sure Spurs' supporters didn't feel the need to slag him off. That would be small time. Rashford is a good young player learning his trade in a good team and doing well. Lingard is all of that except young.
Apparently you overrate you footballing abilities in the same manner and magnitude in which you do your rhetorical skills in replying to my previous post. As I said earlier I only get 3 posts and this is my 2nd.
Wish I had seen this before I replied. I kinda got the feeling that this was the type of poster that would not be persuaded by reason. Call it hunch I guess.
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You are wasting your time and feeding a troll all at the same time. Leave him to his ignorance.
If Lingard keeps up this level of performance then we may have a fair argument. Lingard has been a better player this season so far but it's not saying much as Alli has had one to forget for the most part.
I think Lingard suits the England team much more than Alli does. Keeps the ball moving, his movement is better, 1 touch, 2 touch is good, keeps possession under pressure and does a much better job defensively. Alli has had a very underwhelming international career so far but that's not to say he can't improve.
I do like Alli, but I can understand fan criticisms of him. He will need to understand the fundamentals of the game better to keep his place/win his place back in the England team. We can't afford such inconsistency and carelessness in a position on the pitch which is vital in terms of creativity and transitioning from midfield through to the attack.
I think Lingard suits the England team much more than Alli does. Keeps the ball moving, his movement is better, 1 touch, 2 touch is good, keeps possession under pressure and does a much better job defensively. Alli has had a very underwhelming international career so far but that's not to say he can't improve.
I do like Alli, but I can understand fan criticisms of him. He will need to understand the fundamentals of the game better to keep his place/win his place back in the England team. We can't afford such inconsistency and carelessness in a position on the pitch which is vital in terms of creativity and transitioning from midfield through to the attack.
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Kudos - you could post this soliloquy in many places throughout this forum, and it would be much needed. Your jib is cut well and bonus points for using the word perspicacity in such a sarcastic manner.
Keep up the good work!
He's one of those that isn't anything special and won't seem like he's influencing the game but will pop up with a goal or assist. His off the ball movement and picking up goalscoring positions is probably his best quality, which isn't a bad thing, just that I don't think he'll ever be too. He's kind of like a Muller. Never a midfield, plays a roaming role in attack and is productive. Dont think you'll ever see someone like Pep or Klopp go for him for a super flowing or attacking team, and while he is good, I dont think he'll ever quite reach a top level that'll push Spurs up a level or make a bigger team go for him. Kind of just at his level now.
Compared to lingard.... alli will be more productive long term probably, while lingard will influence the game more and his movement and play will improve others around him more while Alli's movement is more for picking up more scoring positions and getting those stats.
Compared to lingard.... alli will be more productive long term probably, while lingard will influence the game more and his movement and play will improve others around him more while Alli's movement is more for picking up more scoring positions and getting those stats.
Coincidentally, a friend of mine proffered the exact same discription of him apart from a few more profanities and a robust opinion on his diving and other on-field ‘antics’. I’m inclined to agree with you both and he must play with Kane in the World Cup for England to have the best chance of doing something.
Disagree on the last point... Think Lingard suits the others around him in that system better (particularly Sterling and Rashford). Also can suit Kane well. Alli obviously has a good understanding with Kane, but I think England needs more Lingards skill set for that position then Alli's, as they'd have Rashford, Kane and Sterling to get loads of goals themselves.
I understand your thinking but I feel in these one-off games Ali will more likely pop up with a crucial goal or assist than either Lingard, Sterling or Rashford. His temperament is a concern, though.
Thing is you have Kane to be a reliable goalscorer. Sterling is having a great season and pops up with goals. Rashford on the other wing also has shown a knack in big games. Alli is competing for the #10, and there, I'd say England need more of a creator who will make space rather then another scorer. You dont just throw goalscorer on the pitch everywhere... need people who will make space for them. Definitely more lingard
Thats a big warning sign for me. In the pressure of a world cup, if things dont go our way, you just know he's the one who could flip and get sent off (cos refs at a world cup wont let him get away with the shit he does in the PL). We'll see anyway, pretty sure Southgate is going to start him.
That’s the big fear, agreed, but he could be the kind of player that scores 5 goals in the tournament as England finally...*wakes from ridiculous dream!*
Lingaard is in a good form but Alli is a more talented player with more potential. The normal thing to happen is than he will be a better player than Lingaard.
He is a big game player who thrives off pressure. He will be fine.
I dont believe that to be the case for one second but we'll see!