Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player

He's having a fine tournament and unsurprisingly looks better alongside Mainoo who complements him far better than a RB or a clogger. Hasn't set the world alight, but he's playing for a Southgate England side.

I'm not quite sure what the overlap is between those slagging him off here and those who want Ugarte or Onana, but Rice possesses more quality on the ball than most of the destroyers knocking around we've been linked to. Seems strange to me how many United fans are willing to overlook their deficiencies whilst slamming Rice for his.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Interesting take
My personal contention is they should have kept Xhaka in addition to adding Rice. IMO that could have put them at City's level. They missed a coup with that.
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Agreed, unfortunately though Xhaka wanted to a fresh challenge. Arteta already talked him into staying an extra year, we probably wanted to respect his wishes after doing so.

We are being linked now to Merino, not sure what people think about him as a potential partner for Rice?
 
GoonerBear said:
Agreed, unfortunately though Xhaka wanted to a fresh challenge. Arteta already talked him into staying an extra year, we probably wanted to respect his wishes after doing so.

We are being linked now to Merino, not sure what people think about him as a potential partner for Rice?
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Merino plays much more like a Rice than a Jorginho anyway. Zubimendi would seem the more obvious partner for Rice. Both good players.
 
Ichabod Ferguson said:
He's having a fine tournament and unsurprisingly looks better alongside Mainoo who complements him far better than a RB or a clogger. Hasn't set the world alight, but he's playing for a Southgate England side.

I'm not quite sure what the overlap is between those slagging him off here and those who want Ugarte or Onana, but Rice possesses more quality on the ball than most of the destroyers knocking around we've been linked to. Seems strange to me how many United fans are willing to overlook their deficiencies whilst slamming Rice for his.
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He really isn't. He has been misplacing passes all tournament, his first touch has been sloppy and he takes too long on the ball. That dispossession before the Xavi Simons goal was absolutely criminal.
 
GoonerBear said:
Agreed, unfortunately though Xhaka wanted to a fresh challenge. Arteta already talked him into staying an extra year, we probably wanted to respect his wishes after doing so.

We are being linked now to Merino, not sure what people think about him as a potential partner for Rice?
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In my opinion he would be the perfect Xhaka replacement. Similar vision and style. Plus he has a better defensive positional sense. He'd be a nice upgrade on Jorginho, plus a decent long term Partey replacement because he can also operate deeper in a pivot role. Allowing Rice to continue hos development as a box to box combative ball carrier.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Decent enough sums him up as a player altogether.
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8th most expensive player of all time, the world has gone bonkers. The English media done a fantastic hype job on him, it has to be said. Such a bang average footballer. Mainoo is an infinitely more talented player.
 
Robbie Boy said:
8th most expensive player of all time, the world has gone bonkers. The English media done a fantastic hype job on him, it has to be said. Such a bang average footballer. Mainoo is an infinitely more talented player.
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In fairness, there is a hype job about Mainoo too - most media outlets are running with that pass completion stat, he's getting loads of plaudits... And while I agree with the talent part (it's pretty obvious), it's no guarantee he'll have as good a career as Rice, still very early days. I'd rather we just let him develop progressively as he is without ridiculous hype.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
In fairness, there is a hype job about Mainoo too - most media outlets are running with that pass completion stat, he's getting loads of plaudits... And while I agree with the talent part (it's pretty obvious), it's no guarantee he'll have as good a career as Rice, still very early days. I'd rather we just let him develop progressively as he is without ridiculous hype.
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Rice is 25 and has won a solitary ECL. Not sure he's achieved anything of note so far in his career. Mainoo is being hyped because his talent at 19 years of age is crazy. Rice never had that and the hype job always felt quite forced.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Rice is 25 and has won a solitary ECL. Not sure he's achieved anything of note so far in his career. Mainoo is being hyped because his talent at 19 years of age is crazy. Rice never had that and the hype job always felt quite forced.
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Such strange comparisons to make. Rice and Mainoo are both totally different types of players. What Rice excels at is different from Mainoo and vice versa.

As for what he's achieved in his career so far, Rice up until last season played for West Ham, what were you expecting him to achieve?
 
GoonerBear said:
Such strange comparisons to make. Rice and Mainoo are both totally different types of players. What Rice excels at is different from Mainoo and vice versa.

As for what he's achieved in his career so far, Rice up until last season played for West Ham, what were you expecting him to achieve?
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He's replying to someone that mentioned the chance of Mainoo having a career as good as rice has had. How are you meant to debate that if you can't bring up Rice's career to date?
 
Robbie Boy said:
Rice is 25 and has won a solitary ECL. Not sure he's achieved anything of note so far in his career. Mainoo is being hyped because his talent at 19 years of age is crazy. Rice never had that and the hype job always felt quite forced.
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Yeah yeah, I mean I think it's likely Mainoo will have a better career than Rice and will go on to be a better player than him, but massive potential youngsters not going on to fulfill their potential are numerous. Also, while Rice's career isn't exactly the stuff dreams are made of, it's still more than decent, he's an established PL player in a big side with one European (minor title). You could argue that in terms of titles, Mainoo and his FA Cup is already in front of him, but we'll see in the long run how it goes for him anyway!
 
Ichabod Ferguson said:
I'm not quite sure what the overlap is between those slagging him off here and those who want Ugarte or Onana, but Rice possesses more quality on the ball than most of the destroyers knocking around we've been linked to. Seems strange to me how many United fans are willing to overlook their deficiencies whilst slamming Rice for his.
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Those players won't cost 1.5 billion like Rice did, I think that's what you're missing?
 
P-Nut said:
He's replying to someone that mentioned the chance of Mainoo having a career as good as rice has had. How are you meant to debate that if you can't bring up Rice's career to date?
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RobbieBoy brought up Mainoo in the first place in the post previous (post 1768).
 
RedC said:
Those players won't cost 1.5 billion like Rice did, I think that's what you're missing?
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It's largely irrelevant to the question of their individual quality. They would both be being bought to be starters as Rice was for Arsenal. You don't get a +20 boost to your passing ability because you happen to have been cheaper.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Yeah yeah, I mean I think it's likely Mainoo will have a better career than Rice and will go on to be a better player than him, but massive potential youngsters not going on to fulfill their potential are numerous. Also, while Rice's career isn't exactly the stuff dreams are made of, it's still more than decent, he's an established PL player in a big side with one European (minor title). You could argue that in terms of titles, Mainoo and his FA Cup is already in front of him, but we'll see in the long run how it goes for him anyway!
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Thing is, the hype around players in general these days is generally completely OTT. However, with someone like Mainoo, you can see why there's hype. With someone like Rice, it's always felt really forced from the English media. He didn't look anything remotely special when he was breaking through, yet you would be led to believe he was some world class talent. He's simply a decent player - who has been completely overrated - and end up costing far more than he should have.
 
Ichabod Ferguson said:
It's largely irrelevant to the question of their individual quality. They would both be being bought to be starters as Rice was for Arsenal. You don't get a +20 boost to your passing ability because you happen to have been cheaper.
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Let's just get rid of money in the transfer market so, if it means nothing relative to performance. We can all just swap players around teams.
 
RedC said:
Let's just get rid of money in the transfer market so, if it means nothing relative to performance. We can all just swap players around teams.
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Of course transfer fees matter. But only so far as it comes to your ability to strengthen other areas of your team or not.

When it comes to the individual quality of the team, and whether destroyers with limited passing are good enough to be starters at clubs with title aspirations or not it's completely irrelevant.
 
Ichabod Ferguson said:
Of course transfer fees matter. But only so far as it comes to your ability to strengthen other areas of your team or not.

When it comes to the individual quality of the team, and whether destroyers with limited passing are good enough to be starters at clubs with title aspirations or not it's completely irrelevant.
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Spending 105m on a player and then saying that passing is in some way irrelevant when judging them is ridiculous.
 
Rice was obviously ridiculously over priced. Yet I'd never use it as a stick to bash him with. It isn't his fault and not his business. His job is to perform consistently at the top of his known ability to help his team consistently win matches. No one can claim he hasnt added that to Arsenal. Nor hasn't consistently been key in English tournament deep runs in recent time at international level. IMHO its unfair to ask him for more. But its not unfair to point out t his fans he isn't as high up in ability as some pretend he is
 
He's fine. Palhinha is probably a good comparison actually. Rodri is a significantly better footballer though, as are the likes of Kroos and Kimmich. Needs to let Kobbie receive the ball from the defence, and move it on quicker when it comes to him, though as he'll get caught if he dawdles against Spain.
 
ArtetaInInIn said:
As an Arsenal fan. I saw all the intricate passing between Cesc, Hleb, Rosicky, Nasri, Cazorla ect. To say Rice adds another dimension to our midfield is an understatement. Rice is literal concrete in midfield. You put Rice in your midfield and it just hardens up. And were not talking body checking people and smashing opponents, im talking excelling positioning, ball winning, not allowing anyone past him. You cant control the game if you dont have a hold on the opposition.

As for this talk of Rice ot having Casemiro's eye for goal. Well Rice 7 goals in the season just passed matches Casemiro's best goal scoring season. I fully expect Rice to improve on last season and be capably of 10 goals. So yeah, not exactly sure why Casemiro is being spoken of as a midfielder with an eye for goal. Just looking at his wikipedia stats, and its 1,6,7,4,5,7,1,4,7,5 - and thats all competitions. Looks to Average around 4-5 goals a season.........look out goalkeepers.
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Even the goal threat a side. Notice his game template: His passing isn't the type to dictate play. Rather He is better at launching attacks with switches of play just like Casemiro. It's only the line breaking long pass a Casemiro staple he hasn't yet mastered. He is adept at picking runs from deep that break lines in similar fashion. He is just as good in the air and winning the ball on the move as he is being stationary. Plus tracking runs. Its frankly easy to miss the stylistic similarity he has to a Casemiro because he operates mostly in a heavy possesion based side at Arsenal, that are not as vertical in play as a Real Madrid or ETHs side when Case was at his best are.

That is why I often marvel at people who think Rice could ever excel as an 8. If he didn't have a deep lying playmaker 6 like a Jorginho alongside him. They plain conflate his attack oriented number 6 style with being an 8.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
He really isn't. He has been misplacing passes all tournament, his first touch has been sloppy and he takes too long on the ball. That dispossession before the Xavi Simons goal was absolutely criminal.
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Thought I was going mad for a second until I read your post.
He's had some really nervy times probably not helped by changing partner 3 times early on.
 
The only thing that has concerned me about him this tournament is when he drops deep and receives the ball deep in our half with his back facing our goal. He's been dispossessed a few times and in general looks pretty nervous with it in those positions.

Unsure if it''s just nervousness and Southgate tax, or if he's just a bit shite under the press like that.
 
Ekeke said:
Was fantastic for Arsenal but has looked average for England. Lots of passes but not many finding England's danger men in good position and he should have been stronger challenging Xavi Simons. A bad mistake.
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For Arsenal he's usually had someone else holding behind him, letting him run forward with the ball, which we don't need him to do for England. He needs to go back to being West Ham Rice, holding his position and just letting the more creative players get on with creating. He made Mainoo look bad against Iceland when if he'd just played defensively the massive midfield gaps wouldn't have opened up allowing them to score. That performance is probably why Mainoo didn't play the group games.
 
As much as I hate him over what happened with him and Ireland, he's clearly a superb midfielder, he might not be in the handful of those who are the best in the world but it's also the case there aren't all that many who are better either.

He isn't a playmaker but that's fair enough.
 
DWelbz19 said:
The only thing that has concerned me about him this tournament is when he drops deep and receives the ball deep in our half with his back facing our goal. He's been dispossessed a few times and in general looks pretty nervous with it in those positions.

Unsure if it''s just nervousness and Southgate tax, or if he's just a bit shite under the press like that.
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No, I think this is a fair criticism. I would say this is his biggest weakness and what separates him from the likes of Rodri. He’s much better receiving the ball on the half turn and driving up the pitch. That’s why he was fantastic going forward in the since January this year when we moved Havertz up front with Jorginho or Party holding. He’s a remarkably complete box to box midfielder - but is pretty average when asked to be a deep-lying playmaker.
 
Shinjch said:
Merino plays much more like a Rice than a Jorginho anyway. Zubimendi would seem the more obvious partner for Rice. Both good players.
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Rice as the 8 and Merino as the 6 in possession. Out of possession 4-4-2 with Odegaard joining the striker in the press. A box 4 of Saliba, Gabriel, Rice, Merino with Calafiori and White on the flanks with the wide players working hard in defence - it was hard for teams to break Arsenal down last year. If you add another Rice into the team and sort that left back out, then imagine how tight the Arsenal defence can be next season.

Arsenal conceded 28 goals in the league last year, & only 9 in the last 18 games were the Arteta tweak from the beginning of the season started to come into effect at the midway point. There is a possibly this Arsenal team could go the season conceding less than 20 goals in the league if standards are maintained.

Arteta is a defensive minded manager and the idea is to create many chances while locking the other team out. No end-to-end football where chances flow for both teams. Some teams in their effort to create chances allow chances to flow at their end - Tottenham the best example. But for Arteta who is a top manager in the making, there should not be a trade-off - we want to create chances but not at the expense of conceding them. We are also lowkey one of the most physical and imposing teams in the league. A fact that's lost on many as they still associate Arsenal with the Wenger days of intricate football with nifty technicians in midfield. Arteta also loves players who can win their 'duals'. That is players who can win the ball in one-on-one contests. If you have 11 players on the pitch who not only fight for the ball, but can win the majority of their duals on the ground and in the air, then those little victories will add up over the course of a match.

This is why all the concerns about Rice's passing range leave me amused, as there is more to winning a midfield battle that having a progressive passing range. When Arsenal play Man United, and hypothetically we line up with a back 6 of Calafiori, Saliba, Gabriel, White, Rice, Merino. And Man United have Shaw, De Ligt, Martinez, Dalot, Mainoo, Casemiro - in terms of pace, power, strength, endurance, the Arsenal back 6 is more built for the hard weather.
 
So consensus after 45 pages after the transfer.... ridiculously overpriced (40-60%), a bit overpriced or priced just about right (+-10%)?
 
IrishRedDevil said:
Probably worth about £75m. So £30m overpaid.
I think Arsenal originally wanted him for £70/75m, so about right.
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That is pretty much where I put it. About 70-85 for me. I do rate him a bit higher because he seems very durable, a positive influence in the dressing room and brings more leadership. On pure football abilities, it is closer to the 65-70 mil mark.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Decent enough sums him up as a player altogether.
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Yeap, he is probably, maybe a 70million player, in an inflated market. Paying 105 for him was nuts. He is not a galactico, and he certainly is not a revolutionary player
 
Good age
No fitness issues
Good on the ball and elite defensively
Offers good number of goals and assists for his position
Excellent character

Anywhere from 75 to what they paid seems alright to me. 100 is high for any player but I'd definitely rather have him than most of the players who have gone for over 80 mill.
 
Can go back to being cute for Arsenal again but a nothing player in an England shirt. Spain were cutting through England with relative ease.
 
Changeisgood said:
So consensus after 45 pages after the transfer.... ridiculously overpriced (40-60%), a bit overpriced or priced just about right (+-10%)?
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Almost worth the money for Arsenal - 2 points off City. If they won it he would have been worth it. But for England he certainly didnt play like a superstar
 
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