Was awful against Netherlands. Got shown up by his midfield partner
Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
I’d say Palhinha who Bayern have just bought is slightly better.
Great argument - spoken like someone who is confirming they don't know anything about football and hasn't actually watched Casemiro in his pomp - when they say Rice is Peak Casemiro. I'm sure Madrid fans would find this comment particularly hilarious.
Kante seems the most obvious choice, bit more to offer on the ball. Dont think Rice is a holding midfielder and comparing him to Rodri or Paulinha doesn't make much sense to me. I dont think there's many players better in the role than him, but i think its probably a fairly run of the mill profile with dozens of comparable players. Camavinga is in the ball park but more tuned towards attack i'd say. Think Bellingham could cover a lot of his roll or Gallagher. Caicedo is much closer than them 3, think he could be better but early days and he's had a bad season mostly.
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I think we can critique Rice without taking it to the extreme. He’s not a fraud. He would have elevated this United team. He’s just not worth 105M.
I don't actually. Kind of agree with them in fact. Not about the peak Case comparison, Case was better - until proven otherwise - but they have very similar skillsets and limitations
It probably makes sense to compare him to similar types of player but I was just curious who they thought the best CMs were.
I can't say I've watched him loads but he's seemed pretty limited going forward whenever I have watched him.
Kante is a good shout but he's seemed to have gotten better on the ball as he's gotten older. I don't remember him being this good earlier on on in his career. I also think you're massively underrating Rice's defensive positioning if you think Bellingham or Gallagher could fill his role
Well yeah they'd come up short against him there. Its more covering large spaces, providing a bit of physicality and breaking up play that they could do. In an ideal Rice midfield i'd probably have someone else covering positioning and defensive shape and let him off the leash a bit to press and hound people. He can sit in next to defenders and do that job too but dont think he really excels at it personally.
Thought Kante was very good for Leicester on the ball so don't think its recent. Think Chelsea had a bad balance in midfield at times so theres probably a fair argument somewhere in there.
Ye but a DM priority should be to stay back and protect the defence. I know a lot of people like their DM to be good going forward aswell but if I was a manager I’d like my DM to stay back. Dictate the game and break up opposition play.
I'm not entirely convinced by Palhinha either for the same reasons. But i think hes still a better passer than Rice and a more plausible bet than rice to manage. Its not that hard to see when Kimmich is around and most of their defenders are pretty good on the ball.
Rice's ball carrying ability is his most notable and strong feature on the ball and he cant make much use of it when hes meant to be the deepest midfielder holding defensive shape.
Rice's ball carrying ability is his most notable and strong feature on the ball and he cant make much use of it when hes meant to be the deepest midfielder holding defensive shape.
Rice is a leader in Midfield and one of the leaders in the group.
It looks like Mainoo is really enjoying playing alongside him.
You can see he looks up to him like a big brother.
It looks like Mainoo is really enjoying playing alongside him.
You can see he looks up to him like a big brother.
It always has. If he holds his position he will severely restrict Olmo and Ruiz getting any joy in the half spaces. Allowing the wing back and side CBS to double team the opposing wingers Mainoo, Bellingham and Foden are already a midfield 3 able to harrass Rodri. With a Stones allowed to shuffle around to block who Rice restricts.
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Yeah that annoying big brother you can't wait to leave home but he never doesRice is a leader in Midfield and one of the leaders in the group.
It looks like Mainoo is really enjoying playing alongside him.
You can see he looks up to him like a big brother.
Great leadership to cost his team the first goal yesterdayRice is a leader in Midfield and one of the leaders in the group.
It looks like Mainoo is really enjoying playing alongside him.
You can see he looks up to him like a big brother.
Great leaders aren't human and never make mistakes now?
I find all the hate towards Rice a bit tad much.
He hasn't been as diabolical as some make it out to be.
Saying that I am glad Mainoo is one of us
He hasn't been as diabolical as some make it out to be.
Saying that I am glad Mainoo is one of us
Defensively it works, I feel like that severely impacts us going forward though.
There's genuinely no hate, that's a ridiculous straw man. Every time anyone utters genuine, founded criticism about him, usually recognising other facets of his game, people try to make out like there's a cabal against him or hate or whatever, that's just not true. By and large, even critical posts about him are very measured.
Same applies to almost Southgate's whole team though. Neither Kane nor Foden have had "a single stand out performance against teams they should be dominating" either. So by your logic they aren't the calibre of players some have made out and they can't be "elite" either.
Personally, I think that PoV is a bit limited and doesn't recognize that it's always the case that some players don't play as well for their country as they do for their club and vice versa, some players have exceled for their countries at a higher level than they ever played for their clubs. Henry never played as spectacularly for France as he did for Arsenel. I didn't care and that doesn't negate the great club seasons he's had. As said before, I blame Southgate for the majority of English players look much more shite for him than they do for their clubs.
The only argument I'll accept about this guy is that Arsenal could've just saved 100m by extending Xhaka's contract and not signing Rice. He's a really good player and I would've liked him at United. No point beating him up for Southgate-ball.
I don't know what you people are watching but he's been one of the best English players, very reliable and extremely hard working. Best defensive mid at the Euros.
Dictating play requires a lot of good passing, Rice is very poor at dictating play.
Not been a patch on Rodri.
Even Ngolo "exiled to Saudi" Kante has been better (even though he faded as the tournament went on). And there's probably others of lesser nations that didn't make it as far that I'm forgetting now.
Not a chance. I think Rodri is clearly no 1, but Rice has done no better than a host of DMs this tournament.
Hjulmand, Lobotka, Palhinha, Andrich, Tchouameni and Onana have had just as good tournaments as him. Not better, but certainly not worse.
And thus one of the best players in the tournament. Not up there with the absolute best. But only one or two DM’s have looked better.
It’s an odd one. He was great when England were bad. But asking him to adjust to a back three with mismatched wing backs, a kid as a partner, and Foden/Bellingham playing like Roy of the Rovers… huge ask.
He’s having a solid tournament.
Yep.
Except for Rodri.
Or Kante, Kroos, Paulinha, Xhaka or Hjulmand. Other than those he's definitely been the best.
I don’t think the poster meant the full stop after ‘working’. Rice has been as good as everyone you’ve listed, bar Rodri and Kante. And Rodri had an average group stage, Rice was better than he was in his first three matches.
Shite, at fault for the first Dutch goal. Shite all tournament.
No he wasn't
Am I losing my mind?
Rodri was exceptional in the group stages and Rice has been either military medium or poor throughout.
Rodri was exceptional in the group stages and Rice has been either military medium or poor throughout.
No you're not. I mean, he's been steady to meh, but yes others have been much better. I'd forgotten Lobotka who was great too.
As an Arsenal fan. I saw all the intricate passing between Cesc, Hleb, Rosicky, Nasri, Cazorla ect. To say Rice adds another dimension to our midfield is an understatement. Rice is literal concrete in midfield. You put Rice in your midfield and it just hardens up. And were not talking body checking people and smashing opponents, im talking excelling positioning, ball winning, not allowing anyone past him. You cant control the game if you dont have a hold on the opposition.
As for this talk of Rice ot having Casemiro's eye for goal. Well Rice 7 goals in the season just passed matches Casemiro's best goal scoring season. I fully expect Rice to improve on last season and be capably of 10 goals. So yeah, not exactly sure why Casemiro is being spoken of as a midfielder with an eye for goal. Just looking at his wikipedia stats, and its 1,6,7,4,5,7,1,4,7,5 - and thats all competitions. Looks to Average around 4-5 goals a season.........look out goalkeepers.
As for this talk of Rice ot having Casemiro's eye for goal. Well Rice 7 goals in the season just passed matches Casemiro's best goal scoring season. I fully expect Rice to improve on last season and be capably of 10 goals. So yeah, not exactly sure why Casemiro is being spoken of as a midfielder with an eye for goal. Just looking at his wikipedia stats, and its 1,6,7,4,5,7,1,4,7,5 - and thats all competitions. Looks to Average around 4-5 goals a season.........look out goalkeepers.
Child you are so busy provably spewing ignorant & puerile nonsense and feel entitled for me to engage with it.
A pre-requisite for getting intelligent responses is initially having intelligent questions and responses. You have neither.It should make no difference honestly. Not when you still have 2 tens on pitch plus a natural 8 in Mainoo who is positionally sound. Meaning one can we engage theSpain midfield and push the England defensive line much higher up if they are brave. The whole point is to out number the Spaniards in center midfield. Because they will constantly look to over load the center because their strength lies in combo play. Get a grip of that your overall attacking quality [if they play like the first half vs Netherlands] will tell in a positive way. IMO this is the one match in which Declan Rice's ability to defend should come to the fore. I just have serious doubts Southgate can set up a back 3 formation to over load a 4-3-3.
Interesting take
My personal contention is they should have kept Xhaka in addition to adding Rice. IMO that could have put them at City's level. They missed a coup with that.
Agreed and the players will need to be brave as you've mentioned. I have serious reservations of Trippier up against Lamal as well, so my preference would be for Rice to help over that side in particular and not allow Lamal into the areas he's most dangerous in unchallenged.
Rice always looks absolutely gassed, too much of the Scott Parker, Spitfire captain, roving about the pitch, all fart no poo.