Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player

Rice plays like he’s modeled his game after blurry Roy Keane YouTube highlights. All the engine and physicality but missed the technique and ability to progress the ball against the best of the best.

That said, the Spain game may play to his strengths. Focus on breaking up play and allow the more technical players dictate the game.
 
Most fans are blinded by what players do in possession. The positions he takes up, his engine and reliability in possession makes him top quality. I know he had his pocked picked for the Netherlands goal, but the general rule is you wont get much change from Rice. Rice is one of the reasons for Arsenals robust defence, one of the reasons we finished the season on 89 points and conceded only 28 league goals in the season - watch us do better this season. I used to watch Arsenal under Wenger & we were great in possession, however out of possession we were often terrible and its the reason Wenger suffered so many heavy defeats in his later years.

HIs dead ball delivery from set pieces was elite for us, his ball striking form distance is always quality. But because he doesn't do any pirouette turns or flick the ball with the outside of his foot, apparently, he lacks technique.

Against Spain, England wont have the ball for majority of the game, therefore having an elite out of possession player like Rice is essential. Football is played in and out of possession. Its one thing ive noticed having seen Arsenals improvement - how much better we are out of possession
 
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WeePat said:
It’s like he looks for the pass, and often sees the run or the open man in the pocket or half spaces but for some reason he hesitates nearly every time and then opts for a safer option.
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He doesn't trust himself to make the pass, and when he does, he more often than not overhits it cos he's terrified of it being intercepted. It's very rare that he puts the right weight on his passes when they are progressive (which is rare).

Honestly I think some are downplaying how much of a mediocre performance it was from the guy yesterday - at HT Koeman made a tactical adjustment to stiffle Mainoo who had been pulling the strings effectively in the first half, which gave Rice a lot more time on the ball. The Netherlands knew he'd do very little with it and were quite happy to give him that time. I think it's insane that a guy of presumably his level and pedigree was incapable of putting down any kind of marker in a game that was there for the taking - even the original pass that then leads to the chance for Watkins's goal was an overhit one to Mainoo.

I hope I'm wrong but I'm extremely worried about him against that Spain midfield.
 
caid said:
I thought he was pretty good, i was just going to moan a bit about not passing it to Mainoo more (just give him the ball). Seems he's getting a bit of stick though.
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Didn’t he cost England big time on the first goal?
 
ArtetaInInIn said:
Most fans are blinded by what players do in possession. The positions he takes up, his engine and reliability in possession makes him top quality. I know he had his pocked picked for the Netherlands goal, but the general rule is you wont get much change from Rice. Rice is one of the reasons for Arsenals robust defence, one of the reasons we finished the season on 89 points and conceded only 28 league goals in the season - watch us do better this season. I used to watch Arsenal under Wenger & we were great in possession, however out of possession we were often terrible and its the reason Wenger suffered so many heavy defeats in his later years.

HIs dead ball delivery from set pieces was elite for us, his ball striking form distance is always quality. But because he doesn't do any pirouette turns or flick the ball with the outside of his foot, apparently, he lacks technique.

Against Spain, England wont have the ball for majority of the game, therefore having an elite out of possession player like Rice is essential. Football is played in and out of possession. Its one thing ive noticed having seen Arsenals improvement - how much better we are out of possession
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But arsenal got worse on the ball.
 
He's had a really poor tournament after a good season with Arsenal.

He's been guilty of a few mistakes which have led to goals.
 
Too hesitant to make the pass into Mainoo when it's on. One of the reasons we lost control in the second half is because the Dutch got much tighter to Kobbie and forced England to play through Rice and he wasn't really up to it. I do like Rice as a player overall but he does have some standout weaknesses.
 
ArtetaInInIn said:
Most fans are blinded by what players do in possession. The positions he takes up, his engine and reliability in possession makes him top quality. I know he had his pocked picked for the Netherlands goal, but the general rule is you wont get much change from Rice. Rice is one of the reasons for Arsenals robust defence, one of the reasons we finished the season on 89 points and conceded only 28 league goals in the season - watch us do better this season. I used to watch Arsenal under Wenger & we were great in possession, however out of possession we were often terrible and its the reason Wenger suffered so many heavy defeats in his later years.

HIs dead ball delivery from set pieces was elite for us, his ball striking form distance is always quality. But because he doesn't do any pirouette turns or flick the ball with the outside of his foot, apparently, he lacks technique.

Against Spain, England wont have the ball for majority of the game, therefore having an elite out of possession player like Rice is essential. Football is played in and out of possession. Its one thing ive noticed having seen Arsenals improvement - how much better we are out of possession
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No one serious knocks him for what he can do off the ball. Its on it we have consistently told folks the notion he was an improvement on someone like Xhaka or "is better as an 8" was always a reach. He is frankly literally a peak Casemiro clone. Without the developed eye for goal.
 
WeePat said:
It’s like he looks for the pass, and often sees the run or the open man in the pocket or half spaces but for some reason he hesitates nearly every time and then opts for a safer option. I’ve seen Mainoo do that too sometimes but he’s been way more willing to drive forward and is much better linking play.

Honestly I think the biggest problem is we’re just too static. Not a lot of movement ahead. Kane coming deep all the time doesn’t help either as it compresses the pitch, whereas we saw the passing lanes Palmer had when Watkins was up front. Bellingham’s best pass of the entire tournament was in the opening game when he had Watkins running the channels.
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Same analysis I see. Kane in general play is becoming a massive issue for England. He's just refusing now to run in behind and stretch the play. Even just being present in the box at times, how many times have we now seen a Saka cutback right in the danger zone with no England player at all in the box?

Rice"s main issue is of course the expectations that come with the massive transfer fee, and the fact he gets compared to Rodri. Rodri is just a different level, he's just on his own in terms of being as fantastic on the ball as he is off it. Rice is elite off the ball, and just decent with it. The good thing is it's a team game though an dhes a vital component for Arsenal.

Hammondo said:
But arsenal got worse on the ball.
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And as I said previously, there's different things have happened than just Rice being added.
 
GoonerBear said:
Same analysis I see. Kane in general play is becoming a massive issue for England. He's just refusing now to run in behind and stretch the play. Even just being present in the box at times, how many times have we now seen a Saka cutback right in the danger zone with no England player at all in the box?

Rice"s main issue is of course the expectations that come with the massive transfer fee, and the fact he gets compared to Rodri. Rodri is just a different level, he's just on his own in terms of being as fantastic on the ball as he is off it. Rice is elite off the ball, and just decent with it. The good thing is it's a team game though an dhes a vital component for Arsenal.



And as I said previously, there's different things have happened than just Rice being added.
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Yes but your central midfield has been the main problem.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
He doesn't trust himself to make the pass, and when he does, he more often than not overhits it cos he's terrified of it being intercepted. It's very rare that he puts the right weight on his passes when they are progressive (which is rare).

Honestly I think some are downplaying how much of a mediocre performance it was from the guy yesterday - at HT Koeman made a tactical adjustment to stiffle Mainoo who had been pulling the strings effectively in the first half, which gave Rice a lot more time on the ball. The Netherlands knew he'd do very little with it and were quite happy to give him that time. I think it's insane that a guy of presumably his level and pedigree was incapable of putting down any kind of marker in a game that was there for the taking - even the original pass that then leads to the chance for Watkins's goal was an overhit one to Mainoo.

I hope I'm wrong but I'm extremely worried about him against that Spain midfield.
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I’m not worried about him in the final because it’s the one game where you want him to be as low risk as poss due to the potential fallout from having someone uncomfortable try to be expansive; so long as his positioning is right and his engine is strong enough to make runs and pressures, I think he’ll be fine.

Other than that, wholly agree with your post as he has been treading water for almost the entirety of the tournament in games against inferior opposition where the need for him to be expansive really highlighted how terrified he is of responsibility and stepping up to be counted. Fear of failure is crippling him and he won’t even make attempts to be progressive in acres of space.

He can be a hero playing a much more reductive role in the final, however, and I think that will suit him down to the ground; the plucky underdog terrier suits his game more than the refined stuff.
 
You cant play two Kobbie Mainoo's together in a double pivot, you can't play two Pirlo's in a double pivot. You cant play two Xavi's in a double pivot. You cant play two Scholes in a double pivot.

Usually one is a dictacting playmaker whilst the other is the destroyer when playing with two midfielders.

Mainoo is our playmaker - overtaking Kalvin Phillips from the last Euros - whilst Rice's duty stays the same.

This has been in football for ages. 1 creator and one destroyer.

Just because Rice isnt Busquets or Rodri he gets nullified as useless when both the players he gets compared against is to two direct players of Guardiola football, not some random player for some random team.

Should he be more like Zubimendi? No one mentions his name even though his passing is better but he is nothing compared to Rice.

At Man City they dont even have a playmaker like Mainoo because Rodri, De Bruyne, Grealish, Doku, Foden, all create as the football is dictated almost through complete possesion of the ball.

People expecting him to play like a Guardiola player under Southgate is mad when neither is in his training portfolio.
 
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Midrich said:
You cant play two Kobbie Mainoo's together in a double pivot, you can't play two Pirlo's in a double pivot. You cant play two Xavi's in a double pivot.

Usually one is a dictacting playmaker whilst the other is the destroyer when playing with two midfielders.

Mainoo is our playmaker - overtaking Kalvin Phillips from the last Euros - whilst Rice's duty stays the same.

This has been in football for ages. 1 creator and one destroyer.

Just because Rice isnt Busquets or Rodri he gets nullified as useless when both the players he gets compared against is to two direct players of Guardiola football, not some random team.

At Man City they dont even have a playmaker like Mainoo because Rodri, De Bruyne, Grealish, Doku, Foden, all create as the football is dictated almost through complete possesion of the ball.

People expecting him to play like a Guardiola player under Southgate is mad when neither is in his training.
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Who is arguing that he must be a deep lying playmaker?

I just don't find him to be a good footballer at all. I'm also not even impressed by his supposed ball-winning qualities. I find him to be slow and naive at times.

I guess he does fine for Arsenal so there's that. But he really has to find an extra gear against Spain.
 
ArtetaInInIn said:
Most fans are blinded by what players do in possession. The positions he takes up, his engine and reliability in possession makes him top quality. I know he had his pocked picked for the Netherlands goal, but the general rule is you wont get much change from Rice. Rice is one of the reasons for Arsenals robust defence, one of the reasons we finished the season on 89 points and conceded only 28 league goals in the season - watch us do better this season. I used to watch Arsenal under Wenger & we were great in possession, however out of possession we were often terrible and its the reason Wenger suffered so many heavy defeats in his later years.

HIs dead ball delivery from set pieces was elite for us, his ball striking form distance is always quality. But because he doesn't do any pirouette turns or flick the ball with the outside of his foot, apparently, he lacks technique.

Against Spain, England wont have the ball for majority of the game, therefore having an elite out of possession player like Rice is essential. Football is played in and out of possession. Its one thing ive noticed having seen Arsenals improvement - how much better we are out of possession
Click to expand...

I'm a fan of Rice but this is a massive exaggeration of his ability. Just the use of the word elite alone is an issue.

Rice is very good at breaking up play and carrying the ball forward. I've also noticed that once he wins the ball for Arsenal, he very quickly plays a great ball that sets you on the counter attack.

However, his ability to impact a game is definitely something that needs questioning. As we've seen several times he has massive deficiencies for the position he plays. He struggles to receive the ball with his back to play, he doesn't dictate play, when given space he can't affect a game or play killer passes, he over/underhits so many of his progressive balls.

He was bang average yesterday and cost England on one occasion and almost did it again in the 2nd half
 
I think he's had a good, sold tournament but last night was his worst game.

Still a good player who always does a decent job. He will be vital if we have any chance against Spain.
 
VorZakone said:
Who is arguing that he must be a deep lying playmaker?

I just don't find him to be a good footballer at all. I'm also not even impressed by his supposed ball-winning qualities. I find him to be slow and naive at times.

I guess he does fine for Arsenal so there's that. But he really has to find an extra gear against Spain.
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Must have not watched the last Euros because the guy was a complete wall whilst Kalvin Phillips did shit all to get us in the final.

People just d*ck ride anyone capable of playing like a Guardiola Player for man City or Barcelona when they choose the players that actually play with him as manager.

Who can Arsenal Bring that can play both like Rice & Jorginho in one?

Who in the England squad can be defensively as good as Rice and dictate play? Adam Wharton who has had half a season in PL football whilst he is nowhere near Rice's defensive ability.

It's like people want Gattuso with Pirlo's ability.

I'll have Gattuso in my team all day long even if he doesnt play like Pirlo.

It's no surprise to me that United only won the CL not when we just had Carrick playing as a CDM but when we actually bought in Hargreaves to play next to him.
 
Hughes35 said:
I think he's had a good, sold tournament but last night was his worst game.

Still a good player who always does a decent job. He will be vital if we have any chance against Spain.
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He hasn't had a single stand out performance against teams he should be dominating - if we're pretending he's a player of the calibre some are making out, or that he's "elite".
 
Rooney in Paris said:
He hasn't had a single stand out performance against teams he should be dominating - if we're pretending he's a player of the calibre some are making out, or that he's "elite".
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Yea, hence why i said "good and Solid", not magnificent or world class.
 
Hughes35 said:
Yea, hence why i said "good and Solid", not magnificent or world class.
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Good is being kind I'd say, he's done nothing of note and was directly responsible for the opposition's goal yesterday, in the semi final, when his main strength is meant to be that he avoids the opposition scoring goals or creating chances. Maybe it's just semantics, but he's miles off "magnificent" or "world class", not even judging him by that yardstick.
 
McLvnsMuse said:
Rice plays like he’s modeled his game after blurry Roy Keane YouTube highlights. All the engine and physicality but missed the technique and ability to progress the ball against the best of the best.

That said, the Spain game may play to his strengths. Focus on breaking up play and allow the more technical players dictate the game.
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A lot of people seem to forget just how good Roy Keane was on the ball. Always looking forward to break the lines with incisive passes to feet. Excellent passer of the ball and he rarely gave it away in dangerous areas.
 
I’m unconvinced with Rice. He looks scared when he plays for England. He doesn’t dominate the midfield, not very creative and is lucky to have Mainoo next to him
 
Oranges038 said:
A lot of people seem to forget just how good Roy Keane was on the ball. Always looking forward to break the lines with incisive passes to feet. Excellent passer of the ball and he rarely gave it away in dangerous areas.
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Yeah abroad especially there's this tendency to summarize Keane's career as being a destroyer and the tackle on Haaland senior, but he was an all-round supremely talented player.

Rice doesn't have to live up to that standard, very few players will, and I doubt he has it in his locker by now anyway. It's just fine to admit he is what he is and to stop pretending he's this amazing midfielder. He's very good at what he does best, but he also has some glaring weaknesses that keep him short of the best CMs in the game.

There's this strawman argument I've seen above that he's being judged against Rodri, and that's why people are being harsh, but that's a fallacy too - Rodri is miles above everyone else currently, and it's got nothing to do with Rice.
 
Midrich said:
But Arsenal got better defensively.

Much much better & lost the title by one point :lol:
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Once City got their main players back, there was no question, you are not really close to them. Also losing to Bayern was far from impressive.
 
Hammondo said:
Once City got their main players back, there was no question, you are not really close to them. Also losing to Bayern was far from impressive.
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Again its comparing them to City :lol:

Ugarte was shit for PSG in some shit league and everyone is wetting their pants about bringing him here but Rice is shit for the 2nd best team in the PL losing by one point.

Utter madness.

Their is people who see football only when the ball is at a players feet - following the ball and get fustrated because the ball isn't going anywhere.

Then theres people who don't follow the ball but follow the players instead which is exceptionally important when seeing how good a player is without the ball because it's arguably a very important role for any club that doesn't play the way Guardiola sets his team up.

Your catogery 1 - fustrated with anyone who doesnt play the ball because your following the ball throughout the 90 mins.

Im category 2 - i watch the players movement both with and without the ball because im not focusing on the ball but the positions they take.

Rice is world class without the ball.

But everyone has decided in their head that every team must play like Guardiola teams and players for them to be useful and to win a league.

Nearly every fan is talking about 'oh brantwaithe isnt good on the ball' or oh but he is not good enough for possesion football - when the matter of fact is that soon as Guardiola leaves the PL - City will lose their ability to play possesion football as seen by Barcelona and then someone like Rice is invariably important because the league isn't won through possesion anymore.

Now Klopp has gone, soon as City lose Guardiola - Arsenal with Arteta will be one of the favourites to win the title because of a player like Rice.

It's no coincidence that one of the main players in both Euro Finals is Rice & why England was regarded to be one of the highest favourite teams to win because without a player like Rice - there will literally be a hole in both the squad and in a match.

Has anyone noticed the position Rice plays for England?

Its LDM.

He is also right footed.

He has no one to pass to at both LB or at LW because their is only trippier & foden there who dont play that position, trippier doesnt get in behind the defence whilst Foden always cuts in to play as a CAM.

Rice has no one to pass to at LDM.

Mainoo at RDM can pick out Saka, Bellingham and Foden from the right -

Rice can pick out Trippier, Foden, Bellingham from the left with two then playing in their worst positions.

He has no one to pass to as a LDM.
 
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Rooney in Paris said:
Yeah abroad especially there's this tendency to summarize Keane's career as being a destroyer and the tackle on Haaland senior, but he was an all-round supremely talented player.

Rice doesn't have to live up to that standard, very few players will, and I doubt he has it in his locker by now anyway. It's just fine to admit he is what he is and to stop pretending he's this amazing midfielder. He's very good at what he does best, but he also has some glaring weaknesses that keep him short of the best CMs in the game.

There's this strawman argument I've seen above that he's being judged against Rodri, and that's why people are being harsh, but that's a fallacy too - Rodri is miles above everyone else currently, and it's got nothing to do with Rice.
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Yeah, Rodri is just the best midfielder in the world at this point, looks like he just does everything with great ease and efficiency. I'd say he's as close as you're going to get to Roy Keane in today's game.

Rice is a very good player, I think his the quality of his passing and range lets him down and I don't think it's something that will get much better. He just doesn't seem to have the vision and awareness to get to a point where he's ever going to be the one dictating the play or playing those line breaking passes that drive you forward. Which is fine, he is what he is, a very good ball winning midfielder who provides you with defensive cover and aggression.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
He simply needs to play like a pure DM vs Spain. No fancy passing of runs. Just protect thr back 4, win the ball and feed it to the Mainoo's
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Spot on. We looked good first half with Mainoo and Foden in particular looking to receive the ball from Rice and the back four. Mainoo and Foden looked a potent threat several times, it will be interesting to see them develop together in this England team.
 
Midrich said:
Again its comparing them to City :lol:

Ugarte was shit for PSG in some shit league and everyone is wetting their pants about bringing him here but Rice is shit for the 2nd best team in the PL losing by one point.

Utter madness.

Their is people who see football only when the ball is at a players feet - following the ball and get fustrated because the ball isn't going anywhere.

Then theres people who don't follow the ball but follow the players instead which is exceptionally important when seeing how good a player is without the ball because it's arguably a very important role for any club that doesn't play the way Guardiola sets his team up.

Your catogery 1 - fustrated with anyone who doesnt play the ball because your following the ball throughout the 90 mins.

Im category 2 - i watch the players movement both with and without the ball because im not focusing on the ball but the positions they take.

Rice is world class without the ball.

But everyone has decided in their head that every team must play like Guardiola teams and players for them to be useful and to win a league.

Nearly every fan is talking about 'oh brantwaithe isnt good on the ball' or oh but he is not good enough for possesion football - when the matter of fact is that soon as Guardiola leaves the PL - City will lose their ability to play possesion football as seen by Barcelona and then someone like Rice is invariably important because the league isn't won through possesion anymore.

Now Klopp has gone, soon as City lose Guardiola - Arsenal with Arteta will be one of the favourites to win the title because of a player like Rice.

It's no coincidence that one of the main players in both Euro Finals is Rice & why England was regarded to be one of the highest favourite teams to win because without a player like Rice - there will literally be a hole in both the squad and in a match.

Has anyone noticed the position Rice plays for England?

Its LDM.

He is also right footed.

He has no one to pass to at both LB or at LW because their is only trippier & foden there who dont play that position, trippier doesnt get in behind the defence whilst Foden always cuts in to play as a CAM.

Rice has no one to pass to at LDM.

Mainoo at RDM can pick out Saka, Bellingham and Foden from the right -

Rice can pick out Trippier, Foden, Bellingham from the left with two then playing in their worst positions.

He has no one to pass to as a LDM.
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red woppit said:
Spot on. We looked good first half with Mainoo and Foden in particular looking to receive the ball from Rice and the back four. Mainoo and Foden looked a potent threat several times, it will be interesting to see them develop together in this England team.
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Think these 2 things are very important.

One thing is of course the player needs to be able to execute the pass, and there are lots of players that are able to do that better than Rice, don't think there's any debate there. But we know he can do it, maybe not at the volume or consistent basis as some others, but he can do it.

The 2nd point is that there needs to be an availability for the players for him to pass to, in terms of their movement, in terms of their positions they take up as well. There was very little of that in England's opening games, we could all see that.

I think the new system Southgate has adopted gets Foden and Bellingham into these areas more often, that and having Mainoo as the foil has helped England's general play, it gets Foden and Bellingham closer to the pockets where they play best.

However, it's still not ideal. Tripper outwide just skews all balance. He doesn't take up the attacking spaces he should sometimes as seen when Saka cuts inside an looks for that out ball. There were other times he was making the run and just running offside. It's not his fault, it's just not his position. Also, a si mentioned earlier, it's the lack of variety on Kanes movement. Constantly coming short condenses the space in that area for the other midfielders, so it's more difficult to pass forward and it's more difficult to receive it as well.
 
Was fantastic for Arsenal but has looked average for England. Lots of passes but not many finding England's danger men in good position and he should have been stronger challenging Xavi Simons. A bad mistake.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
No one serious knocks him for what he can do off the ball. Its on it we have consistently told folks the notion he was an improvement on someone like Xhaka or "is better as an 8" was always a reach. He is frankly literally a peak Casemiro clone. Without the developed eye for goal.
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Have you been drinking? Peak Casemiro was the best DM in the world. Rice is more like a wish.com version if anything. Not that he's not good at certain aspects, but to label him peak Casemiro is wild. He doesn't have his technical ability, passing range or as you say eye for goal.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Yeah abroad especially there's this tendency to summarize Keane's career as being a destroyer and the tackle on Haaland senior, but he was an all-round supremely talented player.

Rice doesn't have to live up to that standard, very few players will, and I doubt he has it in his locker by now anyway. It's just fine to admit he is what he is and to stop pretending he's this amazing midfielder. He's very good at what he does best, but he also has some glaring weaknesses that keep him short of the best CMs in the game.

There's this strawman argument I've seen above that he's being judged against Rodri, and that's why people are being harsh, but that's a fallacy too - Rodri is miles above everyone else currently, and it's got nothing to do with Rice.
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Just out of interest, Rodri aside, who do you think are the best CMs in the game that Rice's limitations are keeping him short of?

Because I'm of the opinion he's one of the best defensive minded CMs in the world, even with his limitations.
 
Mogget said:
Just out of interest, Rodri aside, who do you think are the best CMs in the game that Rice's limitations are keeping him short of?

Because I'm of the opinion he's one of the best defensive minded CMs in the world, even with his limitations.
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CMs and not DMs?
 
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