Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player

Rooney in Paris said:
Do you genuinely feel this is something the media have been careful or conscious of in other similar cases?
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It’s not something anyone needs to “genuinely feel”, it’s legally black and white. I’m not making a moral judgement about it (I’m actually personally very uncomfortable about the issue) but any media organisation that broached the subject would be immediately opening themselves up to legal action.

EDIT - I’ve re-read your post more carefully (I was on the move when I first read it). Your point seems to be more about other similar cases. What cases are you talking about? I’m not being facetious, I can’t think of other cases that are similar in terms of disclosure.

Antony and Manchester United made public statements, Greenwood was charged by the Crown Prosecution Service, Ronaldo was sued in Nevada, Mendy was tried in Chester Crown Court.

Media organisations are legally free to discuss public statements and filings. But in the absence of that, there is massive legal exposure in discussing an individual who hasn’t had charges pressed against them.
 
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Rooney in Paris said:
I find it genuinely insane how quiet the media has been about this one.

Selective outrage indeed.
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Because there is a court injunction/gag where noone, not even the club, is allowed to name the defendant. Its a simple point which noone is grasping re: the media.
 
Daydreamer said:
It’s not something anyone needs to “genuinely feel”, it’s legally black and white. I’m not making a moral judgement about it (I’m actually personally very uncomfortable about the issue) but any media organisation that broached the subject would be immediately opening themselves up to legal action.

EDIT - I’ve re-read your post more carefully (I was on the move when I first read it). Your point seems to be more about other similar cases. What cases are you talking about? I’m not being facetious, I can’t think of other cases that are similar in terms of disclosure.

Antony and Manchester United made public statements, Greenwood was charged by the Crown Prosecution Service, Ronaldo was sued in Nevada, Mendy was tried in Chester Crown Court.

Media organisations are legally free to discuss public statements and filings. But in the absence of that, there is massive legal exposure in discussing an individual who hasn’t had charges pressed against them.
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Yes, that sums it up, That's why we do not discuss the ongoing case even here.

But the media needs to stay out of it at least for now. Everything they get should be through court filings made available to the public.

It protects the player and the victim. We don't need to see it. And we could be getting the whole story completely wrong. As far as I know there is no specific charge let alone a court date. We seen to be quite far off if we ever get there.
 
He's an incredibly dull midfielder but that's what England need (and needed in the past alongside Gerrard/Lampard), the problem is they haven't found the right midfielder to partner him. Mainoo plays deeper and there's still question marks on whether he can be the key playmaker from deep or does he need someone else to take that duty (it's a question for United as well).

The bigger issue though is Bellingham as the CAM. He doesn't have the playmaking abilities of a true CAM but is rather a second striker, like for Real. If England play with Foden/Palmer as a CAM with Rice and Mainoo at the back, I guarantee they'll play better in possession. Ofcourse no one is going to drop Bellingham though.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
He's an incredibly dull midfielder but that's what England need (and needed in the past alongside Gerrard/Lampard), the problem is they haven't found the right midfielder to partner him. Mainoo plays deeper and there's still question marks on whether he can be the key playmaker from deep or does he need someone else to take that duty (it's a question for United as well).

The bigger issue though is Bellingham as the CAM. He doesn't have the playmaking abilities of a true CAM but is rather a second striker, like for Real. If England play with Foden/Palmer as a CAM with Rice and Mainoo at the back, I guarantee they'll play better in possession. Ofcourse no one is going to drop Bellingham though.
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Foden is no different from Bellingham in that regard. There is this projection people have of him as this great creative attacking midfielder, and he has *never* been that in his career. He's a second striker with good dribbling, shooting and movement, who combines well in tight spaces and can occasionally pick a pass

Foden is Stoichkov, not Laudrup
 
Watching Rodri on the ball…it’s hard to call Rice a 100M player. He’s athletic but technically capped.

Great option to have in your team but not a player I’d build around.
 
giorno said:
Foden is no different from Bellingham in that regard. There is this projection people have of him as this great creative attacking midfielder, and he has *never* been that in his career. He's a second striker with good dribbling, shooting and movement, who combines well in tight spaces and can occasionally pick a pass

Foden is Stoichkov, not Laudrup
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I think its hard to make a call on what he is. I think Guardiola has most of his wingers playing a very disciplined game almost to the point of being scripted. I dont think he can or should try to play that game for England, it needs more initiative and creativity on his part.
I think you sum up the City player well but he could be more for England. Not the right time to be testing theories like that anymore though.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
He's an incredibly dull midfielder but that's what England need (and needed in the past alongside Gerrard/Lampard), the problem is they haven't found the right midfielder to partner him. Mainoo plays deeper and there's still question marks on whether he can be the key playmaker from deep or does he need someone else to take that duty (it's a question for United as well).

The bigger issue though is Bellingham as the CAM. He doesn't have the playmaking abilities of a true CAM but is rather a second striker, like for Real. If England play with Foden/Palmer as a CAM with Rice and Mainoo at the back, I guarantee they'll play better in possession. Ofcourse no one is going to drop Bellingham though.
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I mean... He's like 6 months into his professional senior career. There's probably going to be question marks around that for a few more years and that's absolutely fine.
 
caid said:
I think its hard to make a call on what he is. I think Guardiola has most of his wingers playing a very disciplined game almost to the point of being scripted. I dont think he can or should try to play that game for England, it needs more initiative and creativity on his part.
I think you sum up the City player well but he could be more for England. Not the right time to be testing theories like that anymore though.
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Eh I think we've seen enough of Foden to realize he's more of a goalscorer than a creator. Which is fine, because his feet inside the box and ball striking is fantastic. But he's never going to thread passes through tight windows, it's just not really in his locker nor is it his style.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Eh I think we've seen enough of Foden to realize he's more of a goalscorer than a creator. Which is fine, because his feet inside the box and ball striking is fantastic. But he's never going to thread passes through tight windows, it's just not really in his locker nor is it his style.
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Yeah your probably right. I think even in that support striker role with all his work done around the edge of the box he needs to do more for England than City. Just because he doesn't have the movement around him that he'd get at City.
I think someone will need to start picking up some of De Bruyne's slack for City too actually. He always seemed to be given much more freedom than others.
 
caid said:
Yeah your probably right. I think even in that support striker role with all his work done around the edge of the box he needs to do more for England than City. Just because he doesn't have the movement around him that he'd get at City.
I think someone will need to start picking up some of De Bruyne's slack for City too actually. He always seemed to be given much more freedom than others.
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City certainly are miles duller as a side without Rodri or KDB.

I think Foden can work for England, but it's going to take a far more creative manager that sets up a team that plays more towards his strengths instead of just shoehorning him next to Kane with Jude behind.
 
McLvnsMuse said:
Watching Rodri on the ball…it’s hard to call Rice a 100M player. He’s athletic but technically capped.

Great option to have in your team but not a player I’d build around.
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Rodri is the best midfielder on the planet in a world in which a lot of players in this position are selling for 100m or close. So he's not really a fair standard.

Rice is one of the best tacklers in the world, has one of the best engines in the world, has enough technical ability to play in a possession based side, can impact the game in the final third (15 g+a in the league last year), strikes the ball well enough to take right footed set pieces for his club, has an excellent injury record, willingly follows any kind of tactical plan, and is universally viewed as an excellent teammate.

He's not a bad passer at all but he's not the guy you want to be picking the ball up from the CBs and progressing it forward by himself. In a functional club side he doesn't have to do that anyway, as he can just be paired with another midfielder with better progressive passing skills or put into a system in which a fullback inverts into midfield to share the load while the rest of the team has an actual clue how to progress the ball so it doesn't need to rest on a single midfield ball progresser anyway.

People who know ball rate this player. Two of the best managers in the world in Arteta and Guardiola wanted to spend 100m or close on him last summer. Tuchel almost certainly would have done the same if Bayern had the money. A few weeks ago Bernardo Silva did an interview and was asked what three (non-City) players in the world he would add to Portugal if he could and chose Mbappe, Rice, and Saliba. If that's not a 100m player in today's game, I don't know what would be.
 
Powderfinger said:
Rodri is the best midfielder on the planet in a world in which a lot of players in this position are selling for 100m or close. So he's not really a fair standard.

Rice is one of the best tacklers in the world, has one of the best engines in the world, has enough technical ability to play in a possession based side, can impact the game in the final third (15 g+a in the league last year), strikes the ball well enough to take right footed set pieces for his club, has an excellent injury record, willingly follows any kind of tactical plan, and is universally viewed as an excellent teammate.

He's not a bad passer at all but he's not the guy you want to be picking the ball up from the CBs and progressing it forward by himself. In a functional club side he doesn't have to do that anyway, as he can just be paired with another midfielder with better progressive passing skills or put into a system in which a fullback inverts into midfield to share the load while the rest of the team has an actual clue how to progress the ball so it doesn't need to rest on a single midfield ball progresser anyway.

People who know ball rate this player. Two of the best managers in the world in Arteta and Guardiola wanted to spend 100m or close on him last summer. Tuchel almost certainly would have done the same if Bayern had the money. A few weeks ago Bernardo Silva did an interview and was asked what three (non-City) players in the world he would add to Portugal if he could and chose Mbappe, Rice, and Saliba. If that's not a 100m player in today's game, I don't know what would be.
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He's got a lot of good qualities but they're qualities England have in abundance so makes it hard to shine imo. Bellingham, Walker, Stones bring a lot of energy and physicality in similar areas. A lot of ball carrying ability. They dont have a holding midfielder so he gets shoe horned into a role he can play but wont excel in. Gallagher is kind of in the same ball park and he looks completely redundant in amongst all them players.
Its not just the forward line that has a bad mix of qualities.
 
Imho he had a superb game, and among the top two best England players. He's exactly the type of DM that United need. Fergie would have him in his midfield.
 
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Powderfinger said:
Rodri is the best midfielder on the planet in a world in which a lot of players in this position are selling for 100m or close. So he's not really a fair standard.

Rice is one of the best tacklers in the world, has one of the best engines in the world, has enough technical ability to play in a possession based side, can impact the game in the final third (15 g+a in the league last year), strikes the ball well enough to take right footed set pieces for his club, has an excellent injury record, willingly follows any kind of tactical plan, and is universally viewed as an excellent teammate.

He's not a bad passer at all but he's not the guy you want to be picking the ball up from the CBs and progressing it forward by himself. In a functional club side he doesn't have to do that anyway, as he can just be paired with another midfielder with better progressive passing skills or put into a system in which a fullback inverts into midfield to share the load while the rest of the team has an actual clue how to progress the ball so it doesn't need to rest on a single midfield ball progresser anyway.

People who know ball rate this player. Two of the best managers in the world in Arteta and Guardiola wanted to spend 100m or close on him last summer. Tuchel almost certainly would have done the same if Bayern had the money. A few weeks ago Bernardo Silva did an interview and was asked what three (non-City) players in the world he would add to Portugal if he could and chose Mbappe, Rice, and Saliba. If that's not a 100m player in today's game, I don't know what would be.
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I don’t necessarily disagree with how you’ve framed his qualities. I’d have him at United in a heartbeat. I still don’t think he’s a 100m player (most aren’t). Reminds me of Casa at the peak of his Madrid powers. Great at the defensive stuff. Some technical limitations but a solid foundation for Kroos et al to build on - A critical cog in a great side.

Regardless, Perez would not have paid a world record fee for him.
 
He's a beast physically and good defensively. Plus for Arsenal can run forward powerfully.

On the ball there's a definite clunkiness to his game..the way he sort of turns with the ball, takes half a second too long then punts it a few yards horizontally most of the time. Never get the impression he can take a ball on the turn or with back to play with any degree of nimbleness.
 
Abraxas said:
He's a beast physically and good defensively. Plus for Arsenal can run forward powerfully.

On the ball there's a definite clunkiness to his game..the way he sort of turns with the ball, takes half a second too long then punts it a few yards horizontally most of the time. Never get the impression he can take a ball on the turn or with back to play with any degree of nimbleness.
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Pretty much spot on description. He is the best midfielder on the planet defensively. Not great on the ball though.
 
Abraxas said:
He's a beast physically and good defensively. Plus for Arsenal can run forward powerfully.

On the ball there's a definite clunkiness to his game..the way he sort of turns with the ball, takes half a second too long then punts it a few yards horizontally most of the time. Never get the impression he can take a ball on the turn or with back to play with any degree of nimbleness.
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Yet the Dutch goal was because of him.
 
Irwin99 said:
Thought he recovered really well after the early mistake.
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He did actually. It’s been an awkward tournament for him but I think by and large he’s been pretty good, if only a bit limited on the ball. I’ve been happy with him in midfield.
 
I don't like him, he's a weak link and will be chasing shadows against Spain. There is zero inventiveness in his play. Not that he's required to be Pirlo but there's never a turn/feint/flick that creates some space and danger.

He's just a fit athlete with decent physicality but he's shit at actual football. In an England shirt anyway.
 
WeePat said:
He did actually. It’s been an awkward tournament for him but I think by and large he’s been pretty good, if only a bit limited on the ball. I’ve been happy with him in midfield.
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Annoyingly I don't think he is that limited on the ball. It's weird, at other tournaments he's been willing to drive a bit more.

Very strange considering this is his first tournament after moving to a side who dominated the ball more.
 
Must get paid for every overhit pass this tournament
 
VorZakone said:
I don't like him, he's a weak link and will be chasing shadows against Spain. There is zero inventiveness in his play. Not that he's required to be Pirlo but there's never a turn/feint/flick that creates some space and danger.

He's just a fit athlete with decent physicality but he's shit at actual football. In an England shirt anyway.
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Yeah he's going to stand out like a sore thumb in the final. If he can't have a good performance against this Netherlands team, there's really no hope (beyond his physicality and athleticism).
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Annoyingly I don't think he is that limited on the ball. It's weird, at other tournaments he's been willing to drive a bit more.

Very strange considering this is his first tournament after moving to a side who dominated the ball more.
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It’s like he looks for the pass, and often sees the run or the open man in the pocket or half spaces but for some reason he hesitates nearly every time and then opts for a safer option. I’ve seen Mainoo do that too sometimes but he’s been way more willing to drive forward and is much better linking play.

Honestly I think the biggest problem is we’re just too static. Not a lot of movement ahead. Kane coming deep all the time doesn’t help either as it compresses the pitch, whereas we saw the passing lanes Palmer had when Watkins was up front. Bellingham’s best pass of the entire tournament was in the opening game when he had Watkins running the channels.
 
I also think he is set up for the fall in the final. The Spain midfield will be too good for him and i think he will really struggle.
 
I like Rice but he’s far better than he’s shown this tournament. He’s obviously got less freedom than at Arsenal but he’s been all over the place at times and has been poor on the ball.
 
I thought he was pretty good, i was just going to moan a bit about not passing it to Mainoo more (just give him the ball). Seems he's getting a bit of stick though.
 
VorZakone said:
I don't like him, he's a weak link and will be chasing shadows against Spain. There is zero inventiveness in his play. Not that he's required to be Pirlo but there's never a turn/feint/flick that creates some space and danger.

He's just a fit athlete with decent physicality but he's shit at actual football. In an England shirt anyway.
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He's more like the English Palhinha rather than Rodri. That English version would probably go for £150M.
 
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