The funny thing about this is that even Martinez was a club choice, which was a move put forward to ten Hag and he accepted according to The Athletic. According to The Athletic, ten Hag wanted a list of scouted CBs and one of the names put forward by the scouts was Martinez.
De Ligt | €45+5m agreement reached pending medical | Signed!
- Thread starter VP89
- Start date
- Status
He is on £270K a week. He isn't coming here as he would have to take a pay cut.
It's just the usual lazy journalism like last summer when we were linked with Gravenbum because of the Ajax connection.
It's just the usual lazy journalism like last summer when we were linked with Gravenbum because of the Ajax connection.
Daily Mail reported that Brailsford is running recruitment this window.
There’s too much smoke for this to be paper talk. Romano and Ornstein say we’re in for him, that’s about as concrete as it gets.
Interesting. I don’t know whether that’s good or bad to be honest.
So Ornstein, Ducker and now Hirst are just doing lazy journalism. And you can see right through it. Got it.
Didn't we only go for him after Timber decided to stay put though?
Show me one proper journalist who has said that we've agreed terms with the player. It's just that we are interested. That's all. Nothing to say he's certainly coming.
Brailsford is likely involved in some capacity but as has been reported by the more reliable sources, it's Wilcox overseeing the recruitment with support from Matt Hargreaves and Andy O'Boyle. And I'm sure Ashworth will be involved in some capacity without getting involved directly.
We went for Timber initially until Jose Mayorga and Simon Wells took over from the departed scouts in April 2022. As things happened so quick with the transfer window being on the horizon, targets were selected early before Mayorga flew over from Argentina. And once the Timber deal wasn't a possibility, Mayorga and Wells put forward a list to ten Hag with Martinez's name on it. Mayorga is a Argentine national and he knows the South American market, especially in his home country of Argentina.
Timber and Antony were both targets early but we moved away from Antony as was reported in Brazil only for the Glazers to panic with a week left in the window and hence a £120m budget became a £227m outlay in the final days of the transfer window.
The football personnel were working with a budget of £120m and we were signing players on the cheap like Malacia and Eriksen. If they had a bigger budget to start with, they would've gone for a bigger name because the regime from last season already had Mainoo, Garnacho and Amad Diallo to offer the head coach. This was all reported in The Athletic about the Glazers increasing the budget in the final days of the window.
That’s a team well on its way to scoring about 40 goals.
Thanks for the rundown. I think I remember reading that article in the Athletic, then feeling really depressed about how much of a mess the whole thing sounded.
On another note, I'm assuming Mayorga is still at the club? I was hoping we'd start to sign some young South Americans straight from the continent, like City, Brighton, and now Chelsea are doing. We were linked with Anselmino ages ago, but now it sounds like Chelsea are about to sign him.
Staying clear from transfers like this would be smart, but we all know those at united aren't.
He was indeed out with a groin injury for the last games before the championship, which is when All-knowing Koeman made his choice to start with Van Dijk and De Vrij of Internazionale, not a shabby nor inexperienced CB to be honest. De Ligt said he felt in good form before the Poland game and was disappointed not to start.
Stuff like ‘doesn’t even start for Netherland’ and ‘not as good as Maguire’ paints you in a strange light.
Someone's gotta replace Phil Jones.
I think it will happen some point. Sadly we've missed out on a number of players what the scouts have identified early like Caicedo, Kendry Paez and even the young lad at Boca Juniors Anselmino. And all three players have ended up at Chelsea who seem to be stock-piling on wonderkid talents and sending them over to Strasbourg in France.
It all depends on how quickly INEOS can get their act together because I'm pretty sure there'll be a long list of names in South America that will have been put forward to the likes of Jason Wilcox.
The disconnect between Bayern fans and United fans appraisal of him is odd in this thread. I thought he was a very good player, perhaps burdened by unrealistically high expectations of him when he was young.
He's 25 later this summer, he had a few injuries last season. Again, I really like him as a defender overall, but if we are trying to push the whole team further up the pitch, he's not the one really. Last I knew he wasn't blessed with pace, and I'd rather have a player quicker than Martinez at RCB. He'll cost so much (fee/wages) that it's not a squad signing. His agent is Raiola's business partner, so this could be a ploy just using the club's name here. He's also getting more frequently injured, not alarming, but not ideal either given we need players who are very robust. His recent injury record:
We are making moves on and off the pitch, you absolutely love to see it.
Not really, one is currently a fact and the other is a perfectly valid opinion to have without seeing how he'd cope with the pace of the PL.
Posters have wanted pace in our back line and for us to do some proper scouting for years but as soon as an expensive 'big name' is linked who fits neither of those things it goes out of the window.
Depends on how much we have to spend and who leaves to make room for new players. Depending on Hojlund and Amad after an 8th place finish certainly doesn’t evoke confidence for next season.
He is not injured. He lost his spot to former Serie A defender of the year Stefan de Vrij. There is some tactical idea behind it though. Our right back Dumfries is going up and down the right side all game and because of that our right centre back has to cover the area that Dumfries leaves. When Dumfries is going forward we play a back three with de Vrij, Virgil and Ake. Last Euros De Ligt himself said that de Vrij and Timber are better in a three at the back system than he is. He has backtracked on that comment because he wants to play but i think it is true. De Vrij also plays in a three at the back system at Inter which makes him more used to operating in the RCB role than de Ligt.
I also think that Virgil is a bit of problem for de Ligt. De Ligt wants to be the leader at the back and lead his defenders and organise the defense. Virgil does that for our national team so it takes away one of de Ligt his major strenghts. De Ligt does struggle with sitting on the bench and he even talks to psychiatrist about it.
Stefan de Vrij is a good defender and more used to playing in a three men defense and playing in the area of the RB. That is why he is starting right now but it wasnt an easy choice for Koeman. None of this changes the fact that de Ligt is still a very good young defender.
I'm sorry but I don't believe for a second that Antony was a Glazer signing, and that they were suddenly desperate to add to a long list of wingers with an £80m outlay. No chance. And it has been widely retorted that Ten Hag was behind most of these signings. It would be a huge coincidence that both our first cover CB signings were from Ajax. I've read Athletic articles about it in the past and, from what I remember, they just said that Ten Hag insisted on Antony and the budget was increased accordingly.
How is he 1) aerially? 2) when being pressed? 3) the passes he makes when there are few options i.e does he panick or is he at least able to get it into feet to another team mate 4) does he switch the ball, get the ball fast to team mates when there are options? 5) a good penalty box defender? 6) does he press high and get caught out? 7) does he have a good sense of maturity in his game i.e not going too out all, not overcommitting etc? 8) how is his communication and organising of the defence?
Cheers
Whilst I would love for a Yoro-like talent, if that's not an option I feel at a minimum we need a replacement or get close to the things Varane brought us; someone who is an aerial juggernaut and a beast penalty box defender. I get the de Ligt and Branthwaite links. If they are decent and capable of passing out the back and progressive, then I'm fine if they can level us up defensively with the ground/aerial duels and strength in our own half.
He is excellent in the air. It is one of his main strenghts. He comes from the Ajax academy and for Ajax defenders it is more important to be competent on the ball than being good at defending. He is fine when pressed and able to get it to a teammate. He doesnt have the midfielder-like ability on the ball that Lisandro Martinez has but he is fine on the ball. He is an excellent penalty box defender.
At Ajax he pushed up and pressed high because that is how Ajax played. At Juventus he sat deep. He can do both but sitting back obviously is easier. He doesnt turn and accelerate very fast but when he is quite fast when he does reach his top speed.
His leadership qualities and organising of the defense is one of his major strenghts. When he was a teenager, he was made captain of Ajax because he is leader. He already speaks very good German (i think - my understanding of German isnt great) but overall Dutch people are pretty good at communicating in English. ETH his English is a bit of the exception of the rule.... De Ligt seems smart, i think his English will be pretty much perfect so communication wouldnt be an issue and he isnt afraid to lead a defense.
I think de Ligt and Maguire are both very good at defensive heading but the other parts of defending, de Ligt is better than Harry Maguire. They have a little bit of the same weaknesses too but in de Ligt his case those weaknesses arent a total hinderance as they to Maguire. Harry Maguire turns like an oil tanker, de Ligt turns like a small boat. Not a speedboat but he will be turned around fast enough.
At the time de Ligt was probably an even bigger talent than Yoro. de Ligt played well in Italy, Germany and in later stages of the CL and he is still only 24 years old. That is very impressive for a player who hasnt even entered his peak age. One of the reasons some see him as 'failed' is because he isnt the worlds best defender right now which was the expectation when he was the captain of Ajax in the semi final of the CL.
Thank you for the detailed breakdown, quality post.
All things considered, we could do much worse for the reported sums being mentioned.
Would inject a a good deal of quality and leadership into our defense along the manager already being familiar with how to utilize him best and his stengths/weaknesses.
I think he would be an good purchase with some (minor) issues. He is good, still young and fills a need we have. We need a right sides defender who is good in the air and has leadership abilities. Issues are that his wages are very high and he did have some injuries. He also is pretty shit at making his debut. I believe that when he joined Juventus he was punished for multiple hand balls and when he debuted for our national team he was also a total disaster. Not sure how his Bayern debut went though. Maybe he outgrew it.
He might also have allowed a player from fourth division German club TSV Havelse to score against him during a friendly that our national team played last week (to keep the back ups matchfit). The Havelse striker said he outran one of our players and scored. Since the match was played behind closed door, the media are guessing it was de Ligt
I'd be happy with that. The second XI is important too but that doesn't look as good
??
?? - Lindelof - Maguire - Malacia
Casemiro - Eriksen
Antony - Mount - Rashford
Zirkzee
LB/RB: Wan Bissaka's on his way out and Malacia has basically disappeared?? - Lindelof - Maguire - Malacia
Casemiro - Eriksen
Antony - Mount - Rashford
Zirkzee
CM: Casemiro and Eriksen are both done
RCB: Lindelof doesn't exactly fit the role profile.
If we manage to ship AWB, Casemiro, we need two more signings on top to replace. Ideally a pacy defensive LB of the Shaw / Walker mould at LB and an attacking wing back at RB (Trippier like). Maybe McT is serviceable backup at various positions (DM, #8, #10)
Last edited:
Of course ten Hag wanted Antony, I've never disputed that.
But if you see the links posted below and I've also shared references from a tier 1 Sao Paolo based journo in the past who is very reliable on players from Sao Paolo. It's clear that United's football department walked away from a deal for Antony at £40m only for the Glazers to then sign the player after back to back defeats to Brighton and Brentford. So the football department that was working with a budget of £120m for the majority of the window, suddenly found themselves with a extra €100m because the Glazers wanted to be seen as backing the manager in his first transfer window at the club and hence alleviate some of the heat that was coming their way via the media and fans.
https://x.com/DevildetailsMU/status/1738120626093638036?t=nqAEA_elyiVh2FnABIPxig&s=19
https://x.com/lauriewhitwell/status/1565090623740383235?t=4u5F6SoCrJ5mm3CY9T7g8g&s=19
And here's what Maldini said about his time at Milan under their American owners which tells you that the DoF isn't necessarily involved in the contracts or the negotiations. And what he's saying makes me think we have been going through a similar problem with the Glazers.
https://x.com/IFTVofficial/status/1730667352931336212?t=yd37zHlaV4psR0gB_HWNig&s=19
100% he is. De Ligt is awful.
No
He's a good player , I'm not that concerned about his pace , I think bravery and reading the situation are more important . Once a man is past you in a high line , he's gone anyway , recovery is unlikely . It's the injuries that worry me most .
The poster went overboard with using "lazy journalism" to describe Ornstein, but it's not completely without logic. Hasn't he also stated that we wanted to trim the wage bill? So De Ligt's really going to get a wage that really would look out of place at United under the new regime.
Not a fan of him anymore, a few years ago would love to sign him but nah not anymore.
It’s the use of the fact and the base of the opinion that puts you in the strange light, but obviously the perception lighting conditions depend on the eye of the beholder.
I don’t find Maguire a bad CB at all, but one of his weaknesses is being a bit slow on the turn. Possibly a combo of build and (relative lack of) anticipation. I don’t see that issue with De Ligt. He is faster to react, a bit quicker the first yards, but overall more actively anticipating.
Posters gonna post, but De Ligt, if you watch him play, is more than a big name.
Thanks for the response mate!
I've had a quick look at his aerial win rate on fbref (low 60s in Germany and Italy) and it's below Kim and Dier so not sure how I feel about that. It's not the end of the world but for someone, who you say it his main strength it's not exactly elite. Not 'winning' an aerial is not necessarily a bad thing as Martinez is poor in this regard (i.e in stats) but other than in set plays, his aerial effectiveness is good, perhaps really good for me simply because of his reading of the game and not letting attackers do anything with a 'won' aerial. However, considering de Ligt's size and height, I'd thought he'd be well into the high 60's or 70's even (like Kim).
Some of the opinions are quite divided on here so will be interesting to see how this plays out.
He’s still 24 years old CB and at one point was regarded as young best CB. I’m not surprised if he’s actually INEOS choice given his age and his potential.
I’m not too sure how his wages will fit to what INEOS ideology to reduce wages structure. But he’s on around £260k p/w, so he’s not like on £300k or above. INEOS probably wouldn’t mind to offer £240k-£250k max to him and he wouldn’t mind to accept £10k-£30k less if he’s guaranteed more minutes than he would be getting in Bayern.
I’m not too sure how his wages will fit to what INEOS ideology to reduce wages structure. But he’s on around £260k p/w, so he’s not like on £300k or above. INEOS probably wouldn’t mind to offer £240k-£250k max to him and he wouldn’t mind to accept £10k-£30k less if he’s guaranteed more minutes than he would be getting in Bayern.
200k with fat bonus to make it 260-270 if he hits the appearance number seems fine to me.
For 35-45m range, he is the best we can get at this moment ( those who would be open to join us)
For 35-45m range, he is the best we can get at this moment ( those who would be open to join us)
Would normally agree with you, however tend to think there is truth when Ornstein says it's independent of Branthwaite. He is the don of transfers for a reason.
Only thing I worry about is pace but Bayern fans say he's not that slow. After the Maguire (and Martinez to a certain extent) transfers it should be pretty obvious we need some pace in that back line for one v one situations and to move further up the pitch.
Long term club target. Leadership qualities. Once considered the top talent in world football in terms of defending. Scores from corners. Get him in.
Well I got told I was completely wrong last summer when I said Maguire wasn't '5th choice' centre back and that he could soon win his place back. It took about a month. I get far more right than wrong so I'll stick to my 'strange' opinions.
- Status