Heh the last bit is exactly how I feel. Were a drag to watch these days.
But I think it's too early to judge moyes too seriously. Him being safe early on is understandable. Hopefully it's not a sign of things to come.
David Moyes - The Tactician
- Thread starter amolbhatia50k
- Start date
But I think it's too early to judge moyes too seriously. Him being safe early on is understandable. Hopefully it's not a sign of things to come.
I've noticed a two major changes under Moyes.
1. We somehow look fitter, and as a result we're also better defensively. When we don't have the ball, we're constantly bothering the opponent, making it extremely hard for them to create anything. Think about it; how many chances did Swansea, Chelsea and Liverpool actually create against us, apart from a couple of sloppy long-shots? I think we're going to concede way fewer goals this season. In other words; this is an obvious plus.
2. We've become impatient. The "slow-montion-zombie-passing"(or whatever the hell you guys used to call it) is none-exsistent now. We're trying out a more direct playstyle. I'm not a fan of this, because we're not mobile and talented enough in the attacking third to rely on this sort of attack. But we're also too good to only go for crosses!
So we've improved our defensive mobility(and fitness?), but it has affected our attack severely. Carrick and Cleverley are awesome in their defensive roles, but they need a star in front of them who can keep the ball when things look rough, while also creating a natural path down the center, instead of just relying on the wingers. We need to create more clear cut chances! Enough with the silly crosses and "pin-balling" in the box.
In true FM fashion(I've never played the game though), I'd suggest the following solutions.
1) Sign a CM and an attacking midfielder/winger who can play on the left.
2) Let Kagawa play behind the striker.
The CM will either take Cleverley's spot and make sure that we're a bigger threat going forwards down the center, or work as a natural impact sub. But preferably the former. The winger/AM on the left will provide something we haven't seen for a while now: flair and unpredictability! Let Valencia/Nani fight over the RW spot, while Zaha gets the odd appearance. Young and Giggs will only work as subs when the real stars are injured.
In short; the ideal signings are Ronaldo and Gündogan. But we're not gonna get either of them, so we're gonna have to luck elsewhere.
The Kagawa point speaks for itself.
1. We somehow look fitter, and as a result we're also better defensively. When we don't have the ball, we're constantly bothering the opponent, making it extremely hard for them to create anything. Think about it; how many chances did Swansea, Chelsea and Liverpool actually create against us, apart from a couple of sloppy long-shots? I think we're going to concede way fewer goals this season. In other words; this is an obvious plus.
2. We've become impatient. The "slow-montion-zombie-passing"(or whatever the hell you guys used to call it) is none-exsistent now. We're trying out a more direct playstyle. I'm not a fan of this, because we're not mobile and talented enough in the attacking third to rely on this sort of attack. But we're also too good to only go for crosses!
So we've improved our defensive mobility(and fitness?), but it has affected our attack severely. Carrick and Cleverley are awesome in their defensive roles, but they need a star in front of them who can keep the ball when things look rough, while also creating a natural path down the center, instead of just relying on the wingers. We need to create more clear cut chances! Enough with the silly crosses and "pin-balling" in the box.
In true FM fashion(I've never played the game though), I'd suggest the following solutions.
1) Sign a CM and an attacking midfielder/winger who can play on the left.
2) Let Kagawa play behind the striker.
The CM will either take Cleverley's spot and make sure that we're a bigger threat going forwards down the center, or work as a natural impact sub. But preferably the former. The winger/AM on the left will provide something we haven't seen for a while now: flair and unpredictability! Let Valencia/Nani fight over the RW spot, while Zaha gets the odd appearance. Young and Giggs will only work as subs when the real stars are injured.
In short; the ideal signings are Ronaldo and Gündogan. But we're not gonna get either of them, so we're gonna have to luck elsewhere.
The Kagawa point speaks for itself.
Sir Alex left Moyes great squad, all positions well covered except for the midfield.
His only real task this summer was to address that problem and buy quality CM at all costs since we don't need strenghtening any other departmant.
Support your manager and all that shit, but this was pathetic summer when it comes to our transfers.
His only real task this summer was to address that problem and buy quality CM at all costs since we don't need strenghtening any other departmant.
Support your manager and all that shit, but this was pathetic summer when it comes to our transfers.
But who's to blame for the that? Ed or Moyes? I haven't got a clue how things work at United but I think with SAF and Gill, the manager would pick a player and the CEO would go away and work out a deal.
Don't think he just points to the player and the rest is someone else job.
Sir Alex used to give call to players he was interested in, Gill would do the money side.
Moyes and Woodwark didn't do anything positive when it comes to transfers whole summer, expect us either not to buy anyone or go with panic buy and overpay player since we didn't act on time.
So far he has had Cleverley and Carrick playing so withdrawn and without freedom it's a bit frightening. Cleverley toward the end of the game was just trying to be everywhere and it worked somewhat with the movement from Chicharito but it still just doesn't look right.
Cleverley could play a number 10 and get game time but the biggest factor at the moment looks to be the balance of the player beside Carrick. It was a vintage 'put pressure on Michael Carrick and he goes to water' performance. A couple of good touches early but when he's getting swamped he just doesn't return serve. He gets more and more adventurous and tries to pass his way out of trouble more and more. Instead of inviting players into the space in midfield and then getting past them either with good feet or quick passing with Cleverley he still tries that mid-range pass to get out of trouble which isolates players and spreads play too thin.
To me it looks as though it's a rigid and compact setup but too many players are trying to bypass everyone when the setup is such that there are easy and quick passes around them they don't trust? Or don't want to quick move and take responsibility or something? It's bizarre.
We desperately need some left wing left footed balance with deep in swinging delivery across the face and deep cutbacks. The danger zones is like a crescent moon from the right corner flag to the edge of the area on the left. Nothing even remotely dangerous in behind the back four on the left.
Cleverley could play a number 10 and get game time but the biggest factor at the moment looks to be the balance of the player beside Carrick. It was a vintage 'put pressure on Michael Carrick and he goes to water' performance. A couple of good touches early but when he's getting swamped he just doesn't return serve. He gets more and more adventurous and tries to pass his way out of trouble more and more. Instead of inviting players into the space in midfield and then getting past them either with good feet or quick passing with Cleverley he still tries that mid-range pass to get out of trouble which isolates players and spreads play too thin.
To me it looks as though it's a rigid and compact setup but too many players are trying to bypass everyone when the setup is such that there are easy and quick passes around them they don't trust? Or don't want to quick move and take responsibility or something? It's bizarre.
We desperately need some left wing left footed balance with deep in swinging delivery across the face and deep cutbacks. The danger zones is like a crescent moon from the right corner flag to the edge of the area on the left. Nothing even remotely dangerous in behind the back four on the left.
I picked three problems (I might post more) that were constant throughout the match.
Liverpool dominated our midfield. Lucas ends up passing the ball to Sturridge, who was excellent at finding space, and gave Liverpool a 4 v 2 situation, overloading the middle.
Here's another situation where Liverpool had a man behind our midfield, but this one could have been prevented had Cleverley marked Coutinho, subsequently making the triangle bigger. The organisation was almost perfect; Carrick picking up a man and Welbeck picking up a man, but Giggs fails to press Agger.
Attacking wise, we had no #10. Welbeck hasn't matured enough just yet to be deemed as a reliable figure to lead our attack. Kagawa was the perfect player to make use of the space between the lines and break Liverpool's midfield. Welbeck was too far apart. The organisation was average. Thanks to ghaliboy for adding the lines and circles in the graphic above - a professional look.
Obviously, it's too early to look at tactics, but one things I have noticed is that Carrick presses higher. IMO, it's a big risk, and there were one or two times Liverpool could have exposed our midfield when this happened. Just my take on it, doesn't mean I'm right.
Liverpool dominated our midfield. Lucas ends up passing the ball to Sturridge, who was excellent at finding space, and gave Liverpool a 4 v 2 situation, overloading the middle.
Here's another situation where Liverpool had a man behind our midfield, but this one could have been prevented had Cleverley marked Coutinho, subsequently making the triangle bigger. The organisation was almost perfect; Carrick picking up a man and Welbeck picking up a man, but Giggs fails to press Agger.
Attacking wise, we had no #10. Welbeck hasn't matured enough just yet to be deemed as a reliable figure to lead our attack. Kagawa was the perfect player to make use of the space between the lines and break Liverpool's midfield. Welbeck was too far apart. The organisation was average. Thanks to ghaliboy for adding the lines and circles in the graphic above - a professional look.
Obviously, it's too early to look at tactics, but one things I have noticed is that Carrick presses higher. IMO, it's a big risk, and there were one or two times Liverpool could have exposed our midfield when this happened. Just my take on it, doesn't mean I'm right.
That's a very impressive post.
Moyes is negative in his approach, he still thinks he has an Everton squad. Cleverley is not great defensively and offensively he is ok. I would rather we play Carrick and Kagawa in the middle with Rooney plus two others in a 4231 and RVP up top.
It's not rocket science but it seems Moyes is too cautious in his approach.
It's not rocket science but it seems Moyes is too cautious in his approach.
When? We had greater possession and they posed very little threat from open play
There definitely is a mental block going on with Moyes when it comes to playing big teams. Saying that I was surprised when he brought on Hernandez near the end of Liverpool game. Would be done that at 0-0 though? He doesn't really like a gamble and like it was said earlier he needs to realize he isnt at Everton anymore.
When they had the ball, they had a numerical advantage (mostly in the first half). Personally, I think a draw was a fair result, as Liverpool, apart from the goal, didn't do much. The thing is, that was probably one of our better displays against Liverpool. In past seasons, we've been much worse IMO.
This numerical advantage didn't do much for them given how little of the ball they had. Tacticaly there was little wrong yesterday, a duff bit of defending aside we'd have come out with a comfortable draw at Anfield
I'm really disappointed with Moyes' decision not to bring on a substitute at the beginning of the second half against Manchester City. At times, City's midfield was disorganised, and not for the first time this season - it's a common theme in the Fernandinho/Touré partnership. There were several moments where Rooney and Welbeck found a lot of space between the lines - and with the exception of two moments, where we looked to attack centrally, we looked for options down the wings. In the image below, Rooney receives ball in an intelligent position. City's block is not compact, but we end up playing the ball down the left wing. Forget needing to bulk up... Kagawa would have been a perfect fit. Moyes needs to add more variety in our transition attacks because at the moment, we look clueless down the wings.
The main issue was not dealing with Nasri, who played as an interior. Pellegrini's 4-2-2-2, similar to what Manchester City are currently playing, relies a lot on the interiores to move centrally and not only create a creative spine in the centre of midfield, but it is also to ensure that the there is a numerical advantage in the middle. Add to that Aguero, who dropped off, and you're in danger. Nasri moves inside and drags Fellaini with him. City form a diamond in midfield: 4 v 3, with Toure not being marked. I would genuinely want to know why Moyes didn't play it safe and opt for a 4-3-3. Fellaini received a lot of criticism for his performance and rightly so because he looked languid, but the tactics were ultimately to blame. Even if Cleverley started, we would have still experienced the same problem because this is Pellegrini's philosophy, which is not only much more attractive than Mancini's, but it represents how great a tactician he is.
The main issue was not dealing with Nasri, who played as an interior. Pellegrini's 4-2-2-2, similar to what Manchester City are currently playing, relies a lot on the interiores to move centrally and not only create a creative spine in the centre of midfield, but it is also to ensure that the there is a numerical advantage in the middle. Add to that Aguero, who dropped off, and you're in danger. Nasri moves inside and drags Fellaini with him. City form a diamond in midfield: 4 v 3, with Toure not being marked. I would genuinely want to know why Moyes didn't play it safe and opt for a 4-3-3. Fellaini received a lot of criticism for his performance and rightly so because he looked languid, but the tactics were ultimately to blame. Even if Cleverley started, we would have still experienced the same problem because this is Pellegrini's philosophy, which is not only much more attractive than Mancini's, but it represents how great a tactician he is.
I'm thinking he might be being a bit reserved with his changing things around which is why we haven't really seen the right subs/changes at the right times.
In time he will change things up quicker.
We need a bit more rotation to make those changes possible also. His options are somewhat limited because a lot of the bench hasn't really played much.
In time he will change things up quicker.
We need a bit more rotation to make those changes possible also. His options are somewhat limited because a lot of the bench hasn't really played much.
I really hope we can attack down the middle more often. It requires Rooney to improve his intelligence, which I am certain he is capable of doing. I'm getting overly frustrated with crossing the ball. Even when perfect crosses are hit, we still can't connect with them and score.
This type of movement is what we need more of IMO. I don't know who said that Nani was anonymous until the end of the second half, but this is the sort of thing that he does off the ball. Nani drags the defensive midfielder out of position. Beforehand, Carrick's options were very limited - Nani wasn't in the picture. Two options: pass the ball to Jones or square, to Anderson.
West Brom lose their compact shape, after the defensive midfielder has gone down to close down Nani. By creating a passing angle, Nani has not only offered himself as an option for Carrick, but he's also opened up space for Carrick to make a vertical pass to Rooney/Anderson.
Carrick makes the vertical pass to Rooney. Four West Brom players are taken out the game with this movement and pass. Rooney passes the ball to Anderson, who finds Hernández. We ended up having a 2 v 1 situation in the box, but Hernández shoots...
This type of movement is what we need more of IMO. I don't know who said that Nani was anonymous until the end of the second half, but this is the sort of thing that he does off the ball. Nani drags the defensive midfielder out of position. Beforehand, Carrick's options were very limited - Nani wasn't in the picture. Two options: pass the ball to Jones or square, to Anderson.
West Brom lose their compact shape, after the defensive midfielder has gone down to close down Nani. By creating a passing angle, Nani has not only offered himself as an option for Carrick, but he's also opened up space for Carrick to make a vertical pass to Rooney/Anderson.
Carrick makes the vertical pass to Rooney. Four West Brom players are taken out the game with this movement and pass. Rooney passes the ball to Anderson, who finds Hernández. We ended up having a 2 v 1 situation in the box, but Hernández shoots...
Good posts MoneyMay.
Great post MM, that is stuff that a lot of football viewers don't take in to consideration at all. Nani's movement is absolutely world-class and even when he is quiet he is often the one to create the passing opportunities someone else gets 100% of the credit for.
I think Kagawa has a similar ungrateful role as he has to make up for Rooneys inability to help the midfield dominate possession and control. Kagawa/Nani has shown some glimpses of great play whenever they start roaming 100% freely over the pitch. So Nani can provide width both on the left and the right side and Kagawa at the same time can find those impossibly tight areas which for him is a piece of cake to handle.
I think Kagawa has a similar ungrateful role as he has to make up for Rooneys inability to help the midfield dominate possession and control. Kagawa/Nani has shown some glimpses of great play whenever they start roaming 100% freely over the pitch. So Nani can provide width both on the left and the right side and Kagawa at the same time can find those impossibly tight areas which for him is a piece of cake to handle.
The Nani love-in is priceless
Why post a poor post? If crediting a player for his movement immediately constitutes to a "love-in", then - my word - I must be an idiot.
Yeah, while Rooney is certainly a productive player for us, the way he interprets playing in behind the striker can often be a hindrance to us attempting to control games.
As much as everyone praised him for being our best player against City, I thought him not dropping into midfield was one of the reasons City were putting us under so much pressure.
As much as everyone praised him for being our best player against City, I thought him not dropping into midfield was one of the reasons City were putting us under so much pressure.
That circled area is definitely the problem area. It's not the only one mind you, but even Van Persie doesn't try and force the issue with link up play and movement there as much as he can do. Rooney hasn't done that properly (and consistently) for about 2 and a half years and our wingers don't run in behind from the sides when players do have the ball there. Was half wondering at one point whether the answer was to give Nani more of a central/free role because he provides almost everything as a player that we currently lack there - consistency of technical ability, a dribbling threat, a top class first touch, a good turn, etc...
The other answer, obviously, is Kagawa, but then I think we'd miss Rooney dropping deeper if he wasn't playing there. Frustrating situation. It's like every player in and around that area has got "Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit!
" running through his head.
The other answer, obviously, is Kagawa, but then I think we'd miss Rooney dropping deeper if he wasn't playing there. Frustrating situation. It's like every player in and around that area has got "Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit!
" running through his head.I wouldn't blame Rooney too much. He's played lots of consecutive games and needs a rest imo. You can only sustain a certain level for so long and we have played pretty much every three days since the international break. It's hard to maintain 100%. You can't fault his effort but yesterday his passing was sloppy around the box. Playing one-two's that didn't come off when he should have shot. He'd have been sharper if he had missed one game. Might have been the right time to play Robin behind Chicharito or Kagawa behind Robin since he had a two game rest being injured. Wise after the event maybe?
The thing with Nani is that , while it can be beneficial to have a player roaming and dragging players out of position, it could also backfired as there's no consistency in the tactical department.
Imagine if the defender didn't close him down, United loses the ball, and we could be outmanned in the flank with fullback and winger marauding forward.
It's always a tit for tat, and at this instance MM got it right, but a more disciplined team like barca / Bayern (especially when they have more men in the midfield) can nullify this and punish us on the counter.
Imagine if the defender didn't close him down, United loses the ball, and we could be outmanned in the flank with fullback and winger marauding forward.
It's always a tit for tat, and at this instance MM got it right, but a more disciplined team like barca / Bayern (especially when they have more men in the midfield) can nullify this and punish us on the counter.
Great posting MoneyMay. Brilliant stuff. The caf needs more of this imo.
Brwned's response
. I mean more debate on tactics and not moaning and doom mongering.
Brwned's response
. I mean more debate on tactics and not moaning and doom mongering.Ayee, agree completely. Love the effort he puts in
Good post MM. A lot of our attacking issue's boil down to a lack of movement. We seem very static. After the first 10 minutes of the City game I thought Moyes had told the players to pace themselves since there was no movement, thinking we'd pick it up as the game went on...
Neville also made a few good points on MNF last night. Showing how deep the back 4 is and the lack of pressing when usually we'd be taking the initative.
Neville also made a few good points on MNF last night. Showing how deep the back 4 is and the lack of pressing when usually we'd be taking the initative.
A little bit late with this. I was impressed with Moyes' tactics in the Champions League against Shakhtar Donetsk. In the first half, Shakhtar found it hard to build play. We played with a 4-1-4-1. Van Persie would only press when the centre-backs had the ball. When the goalkeeper had the ball, we didn't press him, but Van Persie and Valencia would press his options, thus he had to hoof the ball. The 4-1-4-1 enabled us to have midfield dominance. It meant Shakhtar couldn't play through the middle and, if you noticed, most of their attacks came from the wings... I'm no fan of Fellaini's technical skills, but I am also no fan of the bashing he has received. No tackles/interceptions isn't indicative of a poor performance at all, and it certainly doesn't mean no defensive work was accomplished. It's a misleading stat, at times. To maintain a compact shape and close down options, is enough for me. We didn't really need to make tackles/interceptions - the only time we needed to do that was when Shakhtar were on the wings, or they got past Cleverley and Fellaini because of the duo being high up the pitch.
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Attacking wise, we did outnumber Shakhtar's players. Welbeck played as an interior IMO, drifted in when we had the ball to give us an extra man. Just being that extra man made us more dangerous, but our passing was poor in the final third. Look, Shakhtar are tough opposition, but after reviewing the match, we should have scored two or three goals. Interestingly, when we did use width down the left, Fellaini was often playing as a centre-forward, alongside Van Persie. I quite enjoy that, as his chest control and technique to bring ball down is arguably the best in our squad. That was the first half really - not the best in terms of entertainment. Will have a look at the second half, as I firmly believe Giggs broke our compact shape.
Love your work MoneyMay. Last picture highlights the way our current left sided players who aren't Young drag a lot of the play inside and isolate Evra as a lone source on the left hand side which means if we turn the ball over he is way out of position.
It's amazing that we have Welbeck in a free role when we have the ball. When he doesn't have the ball, he is one of the most disciplined youngsters in the teams - he knows what's around him. When he does come inside, it gives us options. It allows us to break the opposition's midfield, but as you alluded to, more onus is on Evra to provide width. Very similar to how Arsenal played vs. Tottenham earlier this season, with Cazorla playing as the interior.
Top postA little bit late with this. I was impressed with Moyes' tactics in the Champions League against Shakhtar Donetsk. In the first half, Shakhtar found it hard to build play. We played with a 4-1-4-1. Van Persie would only press when the centre-backs had the ball. When the goalkeeper had the ball, we didn't press him, but Van Persie and Valencia would press his options, thus he had to hoof the ball. The 4-1-4-1 enabled us to have midfield dominance. It meant Shakhtar couldn't play through the middle and, if you noticed, most of their attacks came from the wings... I'm no fan of Fellaini's technical skills, but I am also no fan of the bashing he has received. No tackles/interceptions isn't indicative of a poor performance at all, and it certainly doesn't mean no defensive work was accomplished. It's a misleading stat, at times. To maintain a compact shape and close down options, is enough for me. We didn't really need to make tackles/interceptions - the only time we needed to do that was when Shakhtar were on the wings, or they got past Cleverley and Fellaini because of the duo being high up the pitch.
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Attacking wise, we did outnumber Shakhtar's players. Welbeck played as an interior IMO, drifted in when we had the ball to give us an extra man. Just being that extra man made us more dangerous, but our passing was poor in the final third. Look, Shakhtar are tough opposition, but after reviewing the match, we should have scored two or three goals. Interestingly, when we did use width down the left, Fellaini was often playing as a centre-forward, alongside Van Persie. I quite enjoy that, as his chest control and technique to bring ball down is arguably the best in our squad. That was the first half really - not the best in terms of entertainment. Will have a look at the second half, as I firmly believe Giggs broke our compact shape.
Thanks, RICTR.
Sunderland were very good in the first half. I didn't expect to see a high-block with O'Shea at the back, but it certainly did work. Overall, Sunderland maintained a good shape throughout the match, but unless you train on pressuring opponents in training vigorously, then you're going to find it hard to maintain high-block and make the space compact.
Sunderland set up really well. Most of the first half, our build-up play from the back lacked fluidity. At times, it was up to Jones and Vidić to bring the ball forward because of Sunderland's high pressure. While this was a good way of bringing the ball from the back, it also proved to be a tactic we've seen before this season, against Liverpool, where long balls are aimed forward.
Here we have Sunderland forcing Manchester United back. Cleverley passes the ball to Jones, who takes a touch and thinks he has lots of space. It's this mentality that needs to stop. I'd rather play in La Liga because there is less space to work with, it's a better challenge, but in the Premier League, you are afforded as much space as you like. Fábregas said it not too long ago, and in truth, it's one of the reasons why Modrić struggled last season in La Liga, but that's another story. Gardner pressures Jones into a mistake. While Jones takes a touch, Evra moves slightly forward. Giaccherini, contrary to Evra's motion, moves forward and Sunderland now have a 3 v 1 situation. Fortunately, Jones makes a great recovery challenge, but I think we'd be talking about Evra's positioning if Sunderland scored from this counter.
Another defensive failure in our team is the wingers not tracking back. Januzaj fails to track Čelůstka. With all that space behind Evra, this simply can't be allowed. More has to be done to sort this out. It was the same vs. Shakhtar, too, where Valencia was partially at fault for the equaliser. It was the same with Valencia and Young vs. Manchester City. Passing a man onto a centre-back won't always work.
Attacking wise, it was a very frustrating half. Sunderland countered our threat down the wings by having two players, to stop us from overloading flanks. When the ball was shifted from the wings to a more central position, there was no figure to link play up.
In the image above, Rooney and Van Persie are making the exact same runs. That's what we want Van Persie to do, but in a high pressure game like this, is that what Rooney's role is? IMO, it's not his role. It creates an unbalanced division in the side. Carrick's options become limited and he certainly isn't the type who will make a risky pass behind Sunderland's defence.
And again, United building from the back, but the shape of the team is disorganised. Rooney and Van Persie playing next to each other. As opposed to the position Rooney has taken, he should be slightly deeper to connect play. It does look like it's a Moyes' plan - if you scroll up, there's a similar picture with Welbeck involved vs. Liverpool. The difference, however, is that Nani drops infield.
Once more, Rooney's heading into the box. Tactic from Moyes to Evra is to cross the ball, but it would be better if the team used the large space in front of Sunderland's defence. Crossing the ball is easy, but it is really annoying for a striker to contest for headers, when you know that most of the time, it's futile.
To sort the problem of no Rooney linking play up, Januzaj drifted infield and took up positions that a #10 would take. This did create problems for Sunderland.
Here we have Januzaj picking up the ball between the lines. Sunderland's defence and midfield is narrow, which is the most dangerous position a defence can be at. The Sunderland's midfield is broken by a perfect Carrick pass. Januzaj executes an excellent move, whereby he looks at Carrick - with Cattermole thinking that he'll pass the ball. He feints and takes a shot. Obviously, you have little time to think about your decision, but passing the ball would have been a better option. There is space between Sunderland's two centre-backs and Rooney makes the run. Promising stuff, nonetheless.
Sunderland set up really well. Most of the first half, our build-up play from the back lacked fluidity. At times, it was up to Jones and Vidić to bring the ball forward because of Sunderland's high pressure. While this was a good way of bringing the ball from the back, it also proved to be a tactic we've seen before this season, against Liverpool, where long balls are aimed forward.
Here we have Sunderland forcing Manchester United back. Cleverley passes the ball to Jones, who takes a touch and thinks he has lots of space. It's this mentality that needs to stop. I'd rather play in La Liga because there is less space to work with, it's a better challenge, but in the Premier League, you are afforded as much space as you like. Fábregas said it not too long ago, and in truth, it's one of the reasons why Modrić struggled last season in La Liga, but that's another story. Gardner pressures Jones into a mistake. While Jones takes a touch, Evra moves slightly forward. Giaccherini, contrary to Evra's motion, moves forward and Sunderland now have a 3 v 1 situation. Fortunately, Jones makes a great recovery challenge, but I think we'd be talking about Evra's positioning if Sunderland scored from this counter.
Another defensive failure in our team is the wingers not tracking back. Januzaj fails to track Čelůstka. With all that space behind Evra, this simply can't be allowed. More has to be done to sort this out. It was the same vs. Shakhtar, too, where Valencia was partially at fault for the equaliser. It was the same with Valencia and Young vs. Manchester City. Passing a man onto a centre-back won't always work.
Attacking wise, it was a very frustrating half. Sunderland countered our threat down the wings by having two players, to stop us from overloading flanks. When the ball was shifted from the wings to a more central position, there was no figure to link play up.
In the image above, Rooney and Van Persie are making the exact same runs. That's what we want Van Persie to do, but in a high pressure game like this, is that what Rooney's role is? IMO, it's not his role. It creates an unbalanced division in the side. Carrick's options become limited and he certainly isn't the type who will make a risky pass behind Sunderland's defence.
And again, United building from the back, but the shape of the team is disorganised. Rooney and Van Persie playing next to each other. As opposed to the position Rooney has taken, he should be slightly deeper to connect play. It does look like it's a Moyes' plan - if you scroll up, there's a similar picture with Welbeck involved vs. Liverpool. The difference, however, is that Nani drops infield.
Once more, Rooney's heading into the box. Tactic from Moyes to Evra is to cross the ball, but it would be better if the team used the large space in front of Sunderland's defence. Crossing the ball is easy, but it is really annoying for a striker to contest for headers, when you know that most of the time, it's futile.
To sort the problem of no Rooney linking play up, Januzaj drifted infield and took up positions that a #10 would take. This did create problems for Sunderland.
Here we have Januzaj picking up the ball between the lines. Sunderland's defence and midfield is narrow, which is the most dangerous position a defence can be at. The Sunderland's midfield is broken by a perfect Carrick pass. Januzaj executes an excellent move, whereby he looks at Carrick - with Cattermole thinking that he'll pass the ball. He feints and takes a shot. Obviously, you have little time to think about your decision, but passing the ball would have been a better option. There is space between Sunderland's two centre-backs and Rooney makes the run. Promising stuff, nonetheless.
And again, United building from the back, but the shape of the team is disorganised. Rooney and Van Persie playing next to each other. As opposed to the position Rooney has taken, he should be slightly deeper to connect play. It does look like it's a Moyes' plan - if you scroll up, there's a similar picture with Welbeck involved vs. Liverpool. The difference, however, is that Nani drops infield.
Hope I have the right picture with the right comment. It all depends on what you are wanting to happen going forward with respect to Rooney and RVP playing next to each other. In this situation if we are looking to supply either our wide players or our fullbacks getting forward then Ronney and RVP are where they should be with respect to our play being in the middle third. Timing of runs is crucial and in this photo by being central they are keeping the CB's away from being able to quickly support their fullbacks if the ball is to be played to our wide players in the final third. Look at the space on the opposite side for our RW to attack if the ball was headed that way. This shows why when we are in the middle third with the ball that Rooney and RVP are playing closer. If they play closer at this point it creats more space for the wide players.
I see the point that MoneyMay is making. Traditionally a number #10 would drop into the 'hole' and on both that picture and the one beneath it that big space is completely vacant. It would allow us to switch up the play instead of the predictable ball to the wingers and easily anticipated cross in, it'd allow some play through the middle at times.
Great posts, MoneyMay. I made this point the other day about Rooney playing too far forward against Sunderland leaving a hole in the place he should be dropping into to link play in the space between their defence and attackers. Nani and Januzaj often dropped deep into that area but personally I dont see a need for two men so far forward and neither is it helpful for the wide players to constantly come so central. Maybe sometimes to make an extra number but not by default.
Yeah, MoneyMay's on the "money".
We should rest RvP and give Kagawa/Rooney a chance. With Januzaj and Nani on the wings
Yeah, MoneyMay's on the "money".
We should rest RvP and give Kagawa/Rooney a chance. With Januzaj and Nani on the wings
Rvp doesn't need rest. Just a couple of games post injury to get his groove back.