David Moyes - The Tactician

In that telegraph article Rene Meulensteen said:

"There’s no point putting all these high balls in because they’re very strong in the air with John Terry, Gary Cahill and Petr Cech. Low, hard balls and cutbacks hurt Chelsea".

Maybe this was a missed trick, considering we scored from two cutbacks in the league game at the bridge last season...
 
Moriarty said:
I didn't see the game because of work but your comment is intriguing. Did the midfields cancel each other out? Did we keep their young and athletic players quiet at the expense of attacking options? Just curious as I thought we'd beat them at home.
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We cancelled each other out really. We sacrificed forward runs from Cleverley (who had an understated and very good game in my opinion) and Carrick to null the forwards of Chelsea.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Do people actually notice any difference from last season?
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We would've been far more open defensively in the midfield in this fixture last season. Not much has changed so far in attack, but its early days for Moyes.
 
Kid Cunto said:
I know it's extremely early but I've enjoyed the 4-2-3-1 formation. I know we lined up like that sometimes last season but it nearly always became a 4-4-1-1 under Ferguson with no definite shape.
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Didn't see much difference myself, just seemed the same shape as last season
 
Kid Cunto said:
We cancelled each other out really. We sacrificed forward runs from Cleverley (who had an understated and very good game in my opinion) and Carrick to null the forwards of Chelsea.
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I suppose that was always on the cards. So who was our best attacking midfielder?
 
LR7 said:
In that telegraph article Rene Meulensteen said:

"There’s no point putting all these high balls in because they’re very strong in the air with John Terry, Gary Cahill and Petr Cech. Low, hard balls and cutbacks hurt Chelsea".

Maybe this was a missed trick, considering we scored from two cutbacks in the league game at the bridge last season...
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It's harder to pull off cut-backs when they pile so many players into their box. We were playing into a wall of blue, at times.
 
Brightonian said:
It's harder to pull off cut-backs when they pile so many players into their box. We were playing into a wall of blue, at times.
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Wasn't something we were really looking to do on the few times we counter attacked either.
Just an observation because nothing we tried broke them down. We did on the counter with cut backs last season.
 
LR7 said:
In that telegraph article Rene Meulensteen said:

"There’s no point putting all these high balls in because they’re very strong in the air with John Terry, Gary Cahill and Petr Cech. Low, hard balls and cutbacks hurt Chelsea".

Maybe this was a missed trick, considering we scored from two cutbacks in the league game at the bridge last season...
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Valencia barley got that deep into their box to be fair.
 
This new high pressing game and wingers that cut inside all the time and stuff has turned us into a completely different team, it really has.
 
beergod said:
We would've been far more open defensively in the midfield in this fixture last season. Not much has changed so far in attack, but its early days for Moyes.
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Not sure about that. Vidic being inured was a big reason for our defensive instability last season.
 
I dunno, I think the 4-2-3-1 formation has been more rigid and consistent during the two games. During last season it'd become a more familiar fluid 4-4-1-1 with our wide players a bit deeper in receiving possession. It's an extremely small difference, and of little significance.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Moyes isn't going to change much in 2 months.

What one can deduce though is those who predicted that Moyes would be playing hoofball, as expected were clueless.
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It was never actually going to happen. Not our current personnel anyway. Who are we going to hoof to?
 
Brwned said:
This new high pressing game and wingers that cut inside all the time and stuff has turned us into a completely different team, it really has.
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I knew his was coming, I don't actually have a proper opinion on this yet, but had we played that way you would qhve said it was fergie's plan all along, right? Covering all based quite well mr. Brwnd :)
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I knew his was coming, I don't actually have a proper opinion on this yet, but had we played that way you would qhve said it was fergie's plan all along, right? Covering all based quite well mr. Brwnd :)
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If it were in a one-off game - like Liverpool last year, as van Persie himself mentioned - then yeah, I think I would have. If on the other hand there was a clear, consistent gameplan to press high throughout the game while getting the wide players to tuck in and act as midfielders then it would be pretty difficult to deny the change in set-up. Not sure that's ever going to happen though.
 
Cleverley's shot was from a low Jones cut-back actually. There may have been more but I don't think I can watch that game back again.
 
Moriarty said:
I didn't see the game because of work but your comment is intriguing. Did the midfields cancel each other out? Did we keep their young and athletic players quiet at the expense of attacking options? Just curious as I thought we'd beat them at home.
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Our midfield did win the ball back quite a bit from Chelsea. They just weren't able to use the ball well when they did win it back. They were solid defensively too but just coulnd't manage much creativity all game and I was suprised not to see some killer over the top balls from Carrick.

Chelsea's midfield didn't create much but they were able to hold on to possession nicely a few times but if you ask me we won the midfield battle throughout simply because of the amount of times we pressured them into caughing it up in the middle of the park
 
Brwned said:
If it were in a one-off game - like Liverpool last year, as van Persie himself mentioned - then yeah, I think I would have. If on the other hand there was a clear, consistent gameplan to press high throughout the game while getting the wide players to tuck in and act as midfielders then it would be pretty difficult to deny the change in set-up. Not sure that's ever going to happen though.
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But you said it was fergie's plan all along to play that way. So when do you expect moyes to carry that through?
 
Yes. We are a different side. We press more higher up the pitch. And we were very organized and compact compared to last season. I thought we would be outnumbered in midfield today but that did not seem the case at all. We had control, but lack of creativity and poor delivery is the reason we didn't win.

Also, both teams seemed incredibly nervous for the first 15 minutes. I can't believe it took both teams an entire half to size eathother up.

It was like it was just too early in the season for such a big game. That and Jose doesn't have any balls.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
But you said it was fergie's plan all along to play that way. So when do you expect moyes to carry that through?
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Don't think we'll see that until Vidic and Rio drop out of the team no matter who the manager is (unless they're an idiot like AVB at Chelsea). People like Januzaj coming into the team and Welbeck and Cleverley establishing themselves further will help too, you'd think.
 
We seem to lack a genuine counter attacking threat and that's just not Manchester United. How long is Nani out because we really need someone out there comfortable with the ball at his feet running at pace.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
Our midfield did win the ball back quite a bit from Chelsea. They just weren't able to use the ball well when they did win it back. They were solid defensively too but just coulnd't manage much creativity all game and I was suprised not to see some killer over the top balls from Carrick.

Chelsea's midfield didn't create much but they were able to hold on to possession nicely a few times but if you ask me we won the midfield battle throughout simply because of the amount of times we pressured them into caughing it up in the middle of the park
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Thanks for that. I'll try and find the highlights on the web. Did Kagawa play any part? From what your saying, his creative spark might have made a difference.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
Our midfield did win the ball back quite a bit from Chelsea. They just weren't able to use the ball well when they did win it back. They were solid defensively too but just coulnd't manage much creativity all game and I was suprised not to see some killer over the top balls from Carrick.

Chelsea's midfield didn't create much but they were able to hold on to possession nicely a few times but if you ask me we won the midfield battle throughout simply because of the amount of times we pressured them into caughing it up in the middle of the park
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He wasn't poor, but he was surprisingly low-key today. His characteristic through-balls were also missing. I thought Cleverley was more dominant for us in midfield today, he just doesn't set attacks off enough unfortunately..
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
Yes. We are a different side. We press more higher up the pitch. And we were very organized and compact compared to last season. I thought we would be outnumbered in midfield today but that did not seem the case at all. We had control, but lack of creativity and poor delivery is the reason we didn't win.

Also, both teams seemed incredibly nervous for the first 15 minutes. I can't believe it took both teams an entire half to size eathother up.

It was like it was just too early in the season for such a big game. That and Jose doesn't have any balls.
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There's no difference so far man.
 
The lines seem to be more closely compact. I think the defense has moved up a nudge leaving less space between midfield and defense.
Tonight United seemed a bit frustrated by Chelsea's defensive tactics. I think the passing in the final 3rd could have been better, a few wasted opportunities. I'm sure Moyes will be working to improve that.
 
I'm seeing that we'll be harder to beat than under Fergie. We can't say for certain but I have a feeling that we'd have pressed on a bit more with 10 minutes to go under Fergie than we did tonight. We almost looked as happy to settle for the draw as Chelsea. Valencia in both games I've noticed seems to be playing a bigger role defensively. He's tucking in more than he did before, and it congests the midfield.

I don't know how Moyes will fare in Europe against the top sides and managers, but I also have a feeling that if he does adapt quickly, we could actually do better than Fergie. How many times have we gone out on away goals? I don't think we'll do that as much now.
 
I think there are some noticable changes yeah.

In terms of our wide play, I definitely feel that the fullbacks are being encouraged to put in an early ball like we would often see from Baines. I think Valencia was told to be less predictable, to sometimes come inside and not always hog the touchline and go outside.

I think Cleverley seemed to concentrate his energy a bit more and it made him more effective. That was a definite tactic tonight, however - if that's something they have been working with him on generally, I'm not so sure.. Perhaps it's just a case of being more cautious, and not having Cleverley all over the pitch and leaving gaps.

I agree that we could do well in Europe under Moyes.. For all people talk about the European game being less boring and more 'beautiful', a lot of it is tactical discipline.

We have nothing to complain about.. I'm not sure why anybody would want any big changes from him, we've got the same team as last season and it's very effective - I'm not really sure what we could possibly want from him. except a midfielder
 
Brightonian said:
We were more defensively solid. And Rooney looked in great form, although I'm one of those who thought that he was good for large parts of last season too.

Mostly similar, but in a good way.
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We're also able to start with our first choice back 5. When did we last manage to do that in the beginning of a season? 3, 4 years ago?

There is a change in defense though. More solid like you say. The team is defending better as a whole and pressing more cohesively. We've seen that before though but it's been some time.
 
Kid Cunto said:
We still haven't, Rafael. :lol:
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We did though. He played against Wigan. He's the player that we can most easily replace defensively out of the back 5. Rio and Vidic are still the best pairing and De Gea and Evra are much better than the 2nd choice in their respective positions. Jones however can defend even though he's not overall as good as Rafael.
 
We lack a player who can dribble in tight space, and disrupt Chelsea defensive structure.
 
Isotope said:
We lack a player who can dribble in tight space, and disrupt Chelsea defensive structure.
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100% correct last night Valencia was brilliant defensively but a few times he got one on one at the edge of the box. He hesitated and the moment was gone.
 
Lawman said:
100% correct last night Valencia was brilliant defensively but a few times he got one on one at the edge of the box. He hesitated and the moment was gone.
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Exactly what I was thinking. In those few times, I sighed when imagining if only it were Ronaldo with the ball in that position and space; he would just dribble and sweet whack it in no time. Not fecking looking up to pass or cross the ball around.
 
Isotope said:
Exactly what I was thinking. In those few times, I sighed when imagining if only it were Ronaldo with the ball in that position and space; he would just dribble and sweet whack it in no time. Not fecking looking up to pass or cross the ball around.
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I wouldn't care if he lost the ball but Valencia is got to start getting more positive or he will become a squad player instead of one of our best players.
 
Isotope said:
Exactly what I was thinking. In those few times, I sighed when imagining if only it were Ronaldo with the ball in that position and space; he would just dribble and sweet whack it in no time. Not fecking looking up to pass or cross the ball around.
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You still haven't accepted that Ronaldo isn't one of our players anymore :eek:;) ? Denial isn't good my friend.
 
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