I really hope this is already the case. Valencia is going to have to earn his way back to first team status. He clearly doesn't create enough on current form to be starting on the wing for a team expected to win most of their matches. Keeping you wing tight is a bonus, but not the job description. He's there to create chances, not cock them up.
David Moyes - The Tactician
- Thread starter amolbhatia50k
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I really hope this is already the case. Valencia is going to have to earn his way back to first team status. He clearly doesn't create enough on current form to be starting on the wing for a team expected to win most of their matches. Keeping you wing tight is a bonus, but not the job description. He's there to create chances, not cock them up.
We were very well organized in defense today, looked very well drilled. Keep building on that and add in some attacking flair over the coming month and we will be looking good.
He's actually becoming more of a park type player these days. I wish he'd go back to actually taking players on. He'd a winger ffs.
I think all these comparisons to Park do the South Korean a disservice. He was very productive for a while, was more than just a worker, and always showed up for the big games.
It's astonishing how indecisive Valencia is at the moment. You can almost guarentee he'll take the conservative option, and take too long to do it. He's constantly responsible for us losing momentum in our attacks. It's like watching a different player to the one that had one trick, but did it damn well and without all the dawdling when he first arrived. Nani can't get fit quickly enough(Or Kagawa left Welbeck right, or anyone else really)
Hard to judge Moyes' tactical acumen at this point. There haven't been particularly notable changes to our playing style. Over the season we'll get a better impression of Moyes' ideas.
Really? Think we've seen a few changes, we're putting higher amounts of pressure on teams, especially in there half. Lot more care at keeping the ball it seems with patientbuild up, especially yesterday.
Like I said, we'll see in a few games. It's not like we saw the kind of organised and regimented pressing scheme that Pochetino installed at Southampton. I'm waiting to see more that's all.
Patient build up? That's been the case for ages man ! Too much patience!
Wierd considering we're averaging significantly less possession than last season with a lower pass success rate.
Sounds like you're just looking for 'changes', when there hasn't been anything major yet at all.
I thought Moyes had the team prepared well for the majority of the match and looked to have a good control of the match. It was the last 20 minutes or quarter hour that might be cause for concern when it appeared both sides seemed content with the draw rather than getting 3 pts. Late in the season, perhaps you could argue the value of playing it safe but this early? Seemed strange at OT.
I think Moyes will in time prefer Young to Valencia. Given a run of games and opportunity to find some form, I think Young will be a more productive and creative player than Valencia.
That said, what we really need is a fit and firing Nani. He's the winger in our squad with the quality to open up defenses like Chelsea last night.
That said, what we really need is a fit and firing Nani. He's the winger in our squad with the quality to open up defenses like Chelsea last night.
I think he didn't want to lose to his first game at Old Trafford, especially considering it was against Mourinho. It would have just brought so much more pressure and scrutiny from the press and probably some of the more casual fans as well.
Even so, there was only one team trying to win that game. We didn't go all out attack but we showed more ambition than Chelsea who really were happy with a point. Given Chelsea were set up well to counter attack I can see why Moyes didn't go overboard and start chucking everyone forward.
A point isn't a disaster to be honest and the performance was encouraging.
Enter Nani.
No doubt I thought the real loser on the evening was Mou who neutered his own team with that lineup & tactics
What I would like to see is how the team reacts when they have gone down and is under pressure? Will the players react the way they used to do under Fergie, going gung ho in the final third, or will there be some change and stuff. That I think would be interesting to see.
I think the selection of the team was justified starting with a 3 attackers. I just thought we could have controlled the game more and find the right pass. All in all the team gave a very good account of themselves.
I don't see how some can say they don't see differences from Fergie's style. Yes, there are alot of similarities but we certainly look alot more fitter now that we have been for the past 2 seasons. Our pressing game has improved. Where previously we might have seen one person close the ball down while the rest watch in awe, now we are pressing as a team with our attackers and midfielders pushing up. Not Barca level yet, but certainly an improvement.
Another difference is that we are playing more narrow. Yesterday, Welbeck was constantly coming inside and almost forming a nice close triangle with Rooney and RVP. Even Valencia wasn't hugging the touchline as much. Evra is crossing from deep alot more as well. Even Rooney was running around more! Rooney! A player who has looked lazy and unfit for some time was closing down and busting his lung despite coming back from injury and not having a proper pre season.
I like what Moyes has done and hope this intensity in our play continues.
Another difference is that we are playing more narrow. Yesterday, Welbeck was constantly coming inside and almost forming a nice close triangle with Rooney and RVP. Even Valencia wasn't hugging the touchline as much. Evra is crossing from deep alot more as well. Even Rooney was running around more! Rooney! A player who has looked lazy and unfit for some time was closing down and busting his lung despite coming back from injury and not having a proper pre season.
I like what Moyes has done and hope this intensity in our play continues.
Suarez
He's a deep lying playmaker.
Advanced playmaker is more precise for him.
Nani, Kagawa, RVP and possibly Zaha.
You are right though, we were missing this yesterday.
Making 'major' changes to the way we play would be suicide, but the small changes he's made are noticeable enough. He's done well, really.
Giggs could do that too, but he was surprisingly playing too deep in midfield.
Oh, the fake Suarez? the real Suarez was a deep lying playmaker
Didn't work for me in the all time draft
Didn't work for me in the all time draft
who's your opponent? I might vote for you, NM. Tbh, I usually voted for managers, not the team .It amuses me how people are suddenly trying to find differences in our game than under Ferguson. Suddenly we take more care in possession, we are more patient in our build-up, Welbeck is playing differently than last season.....and the new favourite the "pressing game" has already been introduced.
The only difference I can see is that the team are perhaps a bit sharper in their fitness, no surprise seen as Moyes is obviously very big on fitness based training. Tactically that is exactly how Ferguson would have sent them out, and they played just like I expected.
The only difference I can see is that the team are perhaps a bit sharper in their fitness, no surprise seen as Moyes is obviously very big on fitness based training. Tactically that is exactly how Ferguson would have sent them out, and they played just like I expected.
I do think we're already seeing signs of being better in possession, for example against Swansea.. we struggled to begin with but as we got into it, we were really strong on the ball and likewise we bossed Chelsea's midfield imo albeit they wren't exactly putting up a fight.. still I see a slight difference in the way Carrick/Cleverley move to receive the ball. In terms of pressing? hard to detect a massive change yet in the games we've seen.
We are no better in possession than under Ferguson. We had some impressive possession statistics last season. Carrick and Cleverley are playing how they did last season. Last night they didn't boss anything, they had more of the ball in the deep midfield positions, but offered next to no penetration. Chelsea were not troubled as the ball was constantly played sideways. This isn't a problem as they have two central defenders who are dominant in the air and dealt with any crosses easily and effectively. Carrick attempted to drill some trademark balls into Van Persie, but Jose was obviously aware how he likes to do this, and his team closed down the space in front of him on more than one occassion.
I thought the tactics were bang on for the start of the game, Welbeck and Valencia tucking in was a big help. I think we could have done better in attack but I thought that was down to the players. Nothing he can do about Welbeck's poor use of the chances that fell his way or Valencia only taking people on when he had clear space to run in to.
I thought the last 15-20 mins we could have pushed a bit harder but I appreciate he was in a tough position. No way he could lose that game, it's different with Fergie, he could throw everything at it because he has nothing to lose aside from the 3 points, Moyes loosing to Mourinho even if it is ultimately the 3 points would clearly have had ramifications in the media which can always spread to the players.
Plus he was limited in chances. A Hernandez would have been perfect had he been around, someone to stretch them a bit more. Young isn't really sharp but Valencia wasn't crossing enough. Guess kagawa was an option but we don't know how sharp he is either. End of the day a draw against Chelsea is a decent result. If they don't add a top striker I don't see any reason we should be overly concerned about them, think there's far more potential in our team.
I thought the last 15-20 mins we could have pushed a bit harder but I appreciate he was in a tough position. No way he could lose that game, it's different with Fergie, he could throw everything at it because he has nothing to lose aside from the 3 points, Moyes loosing to Mourinho even if it is ultimately the 3 points would clearly have had ramifications in the media which can always spread to the players.
Plus he was limited in chances. A Hernandez would have been perfect had he been around, someone to stretch them a bit more. Young isn't really sharp but Valencia wasn't crossing enough. Guess kagawa was an option but we don't know how sharp he is either. End of the day a draw against Chelsea is a decent result. If they don't add a top striker I don't see any reason we should be overly concerned about them, think there's far more potential in our team.
More or less this. The only surprise was the Valencia sub as I don't' think Fergie would have subbed him.
Apart from that, business as usual.
Fellaini. Soon.
Not much of a tactician so far but at the same time SAF always had these weird selection moments.
To be fair, when Fergie made odd selections he was often reluctant to do anything about it. While Moyes might have brought Nani/Hernandez on a little sooner, he at least recognised that they weren't going to step their game up this half and did something about it.
Sorry but a midfield 4 featuring Giggs, Cleverly and Young isn't going to win big games like today's. I worry that its going to be a difficult learning curve for Moyes because he did himself no favours by releasing so many of the previous managers coaching staff. I'm not expecting much this season tbh.
So far he's gone with what is safe. Although I will argue that young, gigs and Valencia as your creative force isn't safe, it's stupid.
But it's only the start for Dave and he's still settling in. Too early to say anything about him as a tactician.
But it's only the start for Dave and he's still settling in. Too early to say anything about him as a tactician.
As far as I understand, Moyes is all about work ethic and discipline and I think our club would look like Everton in a few years time if he does not become more adventurous in his team selection and style of play. He has the opportunity to do that at United because the club has the resources to help him, but he needs to take himself out of the Everton shell and realize the type of players he is coaching and the capability they have. Being a United manager hasn't sunk in yet, with him, just saying
Strangely enough, Everton played more entertaining football than us last season. At least whenever I watched them they did. Lots of fluid football and quick instinctive passing. I hope well see more of that here soon.
Exactly that really. I see comments in the Ozil thread about us playing the likes of Kagawa/Rooney/Ozil (lol) behind RVP but all indications so far is that Moyes will persist with the same style of wing play we got used to under SAF....which is great when your wingers are good and in form.
To me he's just got the whiff of somebody who doesn't want to put his own stamp on the team for fear of upsetting the apple cart.
It's not even about winning trophies. I just want to see us play entertaining stuff again.
Fergie did stuff exactly like what Moyes did today all the time. That doesn't make it any less frustrating though; I thought that was the annoying, complete anomaly of a weakness that we'd not see again with Fergie's departure. The one benefit I could see us having right off the bat, basically!