But Ferguson has to make decisions with long-term ramifications. He has been looking for a midfielder for some time.
David Gill Transfer warchest v2012
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But Ferguson has to make decisions with long-term ramifications. He has been looking for a midfielder for some time.
and Poborsky
Fergie would never, ever criticize any facet of our team no matter how poor it is, ever.
You're the one who brought England up, who are a far worse team than we are. Even though our midfield isn't great it's still better than the shit they have, it was an odd comparison to make.
I really don't see what you're trying to prove here, at all. it's as if you're saying that even though SAF hasn't addressed our midfield problems then we still shouldn't question him because he's such a great manager. Odd.
Very good post.
You certainly can't take Jones/De Gea into account (by this I mean that in Fergie's mind we had to sign these two, so their fee can't be looked at as to why we didn't sign someone else) when determining what kind of spending spree occurred. One was a direct replacement for VDS and one was always going to be signed, it was a question of if, not when.
Any idiot can see central midfield is our major weakness and I think that Fergie is being stubborn in that he's looking for the perfect player for the perfect price (wage). I'm certain he's found the perfect player for a wage he doesn't want to pay and just a good player for a wage he would pay.
The obvious disappointing thing is that the extra money required to sign that perfect player was probably "only" £2-3m a year more than Fergie was prepared to pay, and in the end this cost us the League title and almost certainly getting further in Europe, which would have earned us this extra back.
I don't think Fergie has found his perfect central midfielder for the cost of Ashley Young and isn't prepared to pay the wages required to secure them. It's like saying why would we buy Jones, Powell and Kagawa when central midfield is the problem. It's comparing apples and oranges (a World Class perfect player but at an insane price in Fergie's mind, with good players who are required less but at a much more reasonable price).
We only have one midfielder who has shown any reliability in the last season and a half and can actually play every game.
Scholes only played half a season last season, the one before that he said himself he struggled and he felt his legs had gone so he retired. Without the extra 6 months rest he may well find this coming full season much harder.
I can't believe we will willingly not buy at least 1 CM, it may not be a top drawer CM, but even a good, reliable and reasonably experienced player who can play with either Carrick or Scholes/Ando/Clevs would be a big addition for us.
Scholes only played half a season last season, the one before that he said himself he struggled and he felt his legs had gone so he retired. Without the extra 6 months rest he may well find this coming full season much harder.
I can't believe we will willingly not buy at least 1 CM, it may not be a top drawer CM, but even a good, reliable and reasonably experienced player who can play with either Carrick or Scholes/Ando/Clevs would be a big addition for us.
And yet that reliable MF we got has been slated all the way throughout the glory days when we were playing Barca and saying he wasn't good enough.
To be honest, my only question on SAF is that once he sold Hargreaves, once Fletcher was injured what did he have in mind for a big game MF player who would dominate the MF and protect the back four more ? It certainly was never Carrick to be fair.
I still see 1 more MF option, will it be an M'Vila or a Strootmann, I'm sure something amazing will happen this season.
To be honest, my only question on SAF is that once he sold Hargreaves, once Fletcher was injured what did he have in mind for a big game MF player who would dominate the MF and protect the back four more ? It certainly was never Carrick to be fair.
I still see 1 more MF option, will it be an M'Vila or a Strootmann, I'm sure something amazing will happen this season.
Too many replies to respond to individually so I'll sum it up quickly.
You're all missing the point. We are stacked for numbers in midfield. It's a 25 man squad so we are limited as we are already reaching that.
We have the following options:
1. Buy a top class midfielder. If we do this we need to tell either Giggs or Scholes that they might as well retire. Personally I would like to see Giggs retire but he's still got so much experience to pass on and Scholes is worth keeping for a season after his performances this season.
Then you have Anderson and Cleverley. If both could be sure of 40 games, we would be sorted, but we know that is unlikely. Do we sell one? I think Ferguson feels he has invested too much in both in terms of time and money and is determined to see the fruits of that labour.
Then you have Kagawa and Powell (in time) who as I said before, in a more European 4-3-3 they can both play at the point, offering much creativity but also able to drop back and help the two deeper options in midfield in holding possession which is something we desperately have needed especially against teams that pressed us.
Jones played a good portion of his games in midfield whether you think he's a midfielder or not, Ferguson uses him there as he either sees his future there or it's good for his development. Like it or not he is another number to consider.
We have no idea about Fletcher, it could be that he will come back and play 1 in 4 in order to manage his condition. That's another squad number.
Finally we have reliable Carrick.
So you see, space needs to be made and this is why I put our problems down to injuries rather than quality of clientele. I'm under no illusions that our midfield isn't a problem, it's why we are talking about it. Your idea is that we should just forget Scholes, Giggs, Cleverley or Anderson while my view is that we should give them a last chance this year. Giggs and Scholes will be gone next season so space will be made and if Cleverley or Anderson can't sort themselves out then we will have to look at shipping one of them out too.
Apologies if that seems a bit crazy but I think you'll find the great man agrees with me.
You're all missing the point. We are stacked for numbers in midfield. It's a 25 man squad so we are limited as we are already reaching that.
We have the following options:
1. Buy a top class midfielder. If we do this we need to tell either Giggs or Scholes that they might as well retire. Personally I would like to see Giggs retire but he's still got so much experience to pass on and Scholes is worth keeping for a season after his performances this season.
Then you have Anderson and Cleverley. If both could be sure of 40 games, we would be sorted, but we know that is unlikely. Do we sell one? I think Ferguson feels he has invested too much in both in terms of time and money and is determined to see the fruits of that labour.
Then you have Kagawa and Powell (in time) who as I said before, in a more European 4-3-3 they can both play at the point, offering much creativity but also able to drop back and help the two deeper options in midfield in holding possession which is something we desperately have needed especially against teams that pressed us.
Jones played a good portion of his games in midfield whether you think he's a midfielder or not, Ferguson uses him there as he either sees his future there or it's good for his development. Like it or not he is another number to consider.
We have no idea about Fletcher, it could be that he will come back and play 1 in 4 in order to manage his condition. That's another squad number.
Finally we have reliable Carrick.
So you see, space needs to be made and this is why I put our problems down to injuries rather than quality of clientele. I'm under no illusions that our midfield isn't a problem, it's why we are talking about it. Your idea is that we should just forget Scholes, Giggs, Cleverley or Anderson while my view is that we should give them a last chance this year. Giggs and Scholes will be gone next season so space will be made and if Cleverley or Anderson can't sort themselves out then we will have to look at shipping one of them out too.
Apologies if that seems a bit crazy but I think you'll find the great man agrees with me.
I cant see giggs and Scholes costing us a fortune on the wage bill. When you consider Scholes was on the coaching staff I doubt it cost a fortune to the club when he returned to the playing staff.
Well you got that bit right anyway.
What's that got to do with anything? They are both taking up a squad place and I can't see Ferguson asking either to reconsider retiring now they have both signed a years contract.
Last year sneijder was the player everyone wanted. People wanted Carrick sold.
Amazing what a year does.
Amazing what a year does.
I'd still take Sneijder in a heartbeat.
Did you even read the post? Where do we find space for an extra midfielder? Who goes?
Who the feck wouldn't still want Sneijder here?
Last year most people wanted a midfielder, this year even more people want a midfielder here.
Amazing what a ... oh wait.
Not sneijder though - especially with the arrival of kagawa
Probably Berbatov and Park. Even then we can easily fit an extra player into the 25 man squad, you're just clutching at straws now.
Even if they were both fit for 40 games they are both unproven so we'd hardly be 'sorted.'
what do you mean "we"? you're clearly a City fan
It's a lot tighter than you think, there's no murmurs of Park going anywhere either. We were at 24 last time I counted but that included Berbatov who is out, then there is Jones to register for the UCL which takes us to 26/25. Fabio on loan will be 24/25. So if we signed a Midfielder someone would be dropped for Europe.
Thank feck you weren't managing in 92'.
Wasn't Owen registered? And Fletcher? Park will probably go.
That's excluding Berbatov and Owen. Like I said, nothing to suggest Park leaving. If anything he can be used properly as a "defensive winger" and nothing else now we have Kagawa and Powell to play in a three.
Fletcher we know nothing about, I wouldn't put it past Ferguson to include him though.
I can count on one hand the number of 'good' games Giggsy had last season, unfortunately. He was a shadow of the season before, which was actually pretty useful. But he was woeful most of the season, so if it means him playing an even more bit part role, I'm totally fine with that. A 38 year old shouldn't be playing 90 mins in the middle of the park anyway.
The teams that play the best football have a consistent midfield partnership. It makes sense, and is clearly true. It's also been the case for us - hell we even had a great run a few years ago with O'Shea and Giggs as our two. Fergie has chopped, changed and rotated the central positions to all hell (only partly because of injuries) and we suffer for it.
As others have said, I'm okay with a less than 'world class' option, as long as he can slot in and stay fit, giving us a platform to build on.
The teams that play the best football have a consistent midfield partnership. It makes sense, and is clearly true. It's also been the case for us - hell we even had a great run a few years ago with O'Shea and Giggs as our two. Fergie has chopped, changed and rotated the central positions to all hell (only partly because of injuries) and we suffer for it.
As others have said, I'm okay with a less than 'world class' option, as long as he can slot in and stay fit, giving us a platform to build on.
1 Evra, Patrice Latyr
2 Ferdinand, Rio Gavin
3 Evans, Jonathan Grant
4 De Abreu Oliveira, Anderson Luis
5 Berbatov, Dimitar
6 Rooney, Wayne Mark
7 Giggs, Ryan Joseph
8 Smalling, Christopher
9 Park, Ji-Sung
10 Hernandez Balcazar, Javier
11 Vidic, Nemanja
12 Carrick, Michael
13 Almedia Da Cunha, Luis Carlos
14 Young, Ashley Simon
15 Cleverley, Thomas William
16 Fletcher, Darren Barr
17 Valencia Mosquera, Luis Antonio
18 Lindegaard, Anders Rozenkrantz
19 Kagawa, Shinji
20 De Gea Quinta, David
21 Dias Correia, Tiago Manuel
22 Amos, Benjamin Paul
23 Pereira da Silva, Rafael
24 Pereira da Silva, Fabio
25 Scholes, Paul
26 Welbeck, Daniel
There's probably a name or two I've missed/got wrong but I think those cover it. Berbatov'll be sold, Fletcher probably won't be registered and Fabio is going on loan.
I don't know why I keep indulging you, you really are clueless
Resorting to petty comments again. Grow up.
We need to sign a left back as well with Fabio going out, or Fabio needs to be included.
Where does this extra midfielder of yours fit in again? You can answer or call me an idiot, up to you.
Where's poor Phil Jones?
Scholes. Giggs. Both phased out and played only in case of an emergency. Simple really.
Well Damian just answered that above. There is space.
Also, you call my comments petty yet this all started because of a sarcastic, smart arse post from you.
Also, you call my comments petty yet this all started because of a sarcastic, smart arse post from you.
We also could do without Bebe.
Oh that is simple, maybe the FA and UEFA will let us register them both under one spot.
Damian missed Jones which takes it to 27, - Fabio and Berbatov 25. + Left Back 26. + new midfielder 27.
Two, on top of Fabio and Berbatov, have to leave to accommodate a new midfielder.
Edit - One if we ditch Bebe.
You left out Bebe. Fletcher, unlikely. Park, pretty unlikely. Why are you automatically including a left back, to try validate the argument?
This is quite funny, you make a point, someone makes a mockery of it, so you try and go off on a new tangent instead, which now seems to be squad size for the CL, which is stupid, because nobody can predict who will or will not be included in that squad yet.
This is quite funny, you make a point, someone makes a mockery of it, so you try and go off on a new tangent instead, which now seems to be squad size for the CL, which is stupid, because nobody can predict who will or will not be included in that squad yet.
With Kagawa in, i see no role for Giggsy if am honest. Wouldnt mind him moving on to a coaching role IF there really is no extra slot left.
Because Evra will be out only left back if Fabio goes on loan. Common sense.
Why are you automatically excluding Fletcher and Park? Fletcher said he is targeting the new season and there has been no mention anywhere of Park leaving.
I've only mentioned those who need to be registered in the Premier League squad (those born before 1st January 1991). Phil Jones won't need to be registered for that and neither will Macheda.
Signing a midfielder would be common sense too though, wouldn't it. What if the said left back is under the age? What if the midfielder is under the age? What if Giggs decides to retire? What if Fletcher suddenly comes back and plays 50 games a season again? What if ...
Debating over how to fit players in the 25 man team is ridiculous as you can never predict what will happen between now and then.
people are very quick to discard a player of Giggs quality and experience. Giggs can still make an impact when used correctly.
None of us know how Kagawa is going to settle in yet & besides he is not a winger