David Gill Transfer warchest v2012

golden_blunder said:
people are very quick to discard a player of Giggs quality and experience. Giggs can still make an impact when used correctly.

None of us know how Kagawa is going to settle in yet & besides he is not a winger
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Thank you for a bit of sense.

Sweet Jesus, some of the people here amaze me.
 
Cina said:
Signing a midfielder would be common sense too though, wouldn't it. What if the said left back is under the age? What if the midfielder is under the age? What if Giggs decides to retire? What if Fletcher suddenly comes back and plays 50 games a season again? What if ...

Debating over how to fit players in the 25 man team is ridiculous as you can never predict what will happen between now and then.
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its also ridiculous trying to second guess who Ferguson is going to buy

I'd say considering we have all been shouting about a CM for the past 3 seasons and Fergie hasnt bought, then Pexbo is probably closer to being right than the rest of you arguing the other point.
 
golden_blunder said:
people are very quick to discard a player of Giggs quality and experience. Giggs can still make an impact when used correctly.

None of us know how Kagawa is going to settle in yet & besides he is not a winger
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From what I read he's more of a winger (the role he plays with Japan) then a CM. His natural role is that of trequartista.
 
Damien1990 said:
1 Evra, Patrice Latyr
2 Ferdinand, Rio Gavin
3 Evans, Jonathan Grant
4 De Abreu Oliveira, Anderson Luis
5 Berbatov, Dimitar
6 Rooney, Wayne Mark
7 Giggs, Ryan Joseph
8 Smalling, Christopher
9 Park, Ji-Sung
10 Hernandez Balcazar, Javier
11 Vidic, Nemanja
12 Carrick, Michael
13 Almedia Da Cunha, Luis Carlos
14 Young, Ashley Simon
15 Cleverley, Thomas William
16 Fletcher, Darren Barr
17 Valencia Mosquera, Luis Antonio
18 Lindegaard, Anders Rozenkrantz
19 Kagawa, Shinji
20 De Gea Quinta, David
21 Dias Correia, Tiago Manuel
22 Amos, Benjamin Paul
23 Pereira da Silva, Rafael
24 Pereira da Silva, Fabio
25 Scholes, Paul
26 Welbeck, Daniel

There's probably a name or two I've missed/got wrong but I think those cover it. Berbatov'll be sold, Fletcher probably won't be registered and Fabio is going on loan.
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Amos may be loaned while Dias Correia Tiago Manuel may end up sold/loan.

BTW Hernandez middle name reminds me of one of Disney's films typical villains.
 
devilish said:
Amos may be loaned while Dias Correia Tiago Manuel may end up sold/loan.

BTW Hernandez middle name reminds me of one of Disney's films typical villains.
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That's not his middle name. Balcazar is his mother's surname.

Given name + family name(father's surname) + mother's surname. That's how a Spanish name forms.
 
westlife4ever said:
That's not his middle name. Balcazar is his mother's surname.

Given name + family name(father's surname) + mother's surname. That's how a Spanish name forms.
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I didn't knew that. Thanks.
 
golden_blunder said:
people are very quick to discard a player of Giggs quality and experience. Giggs can still make an impact when used correctly.

None of us know how Kagawa is going to settle in yet & besides he is not a winger
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Giggsy isnt a winger either. Not anymore. And am not against using Giggsy anyways, he might still have something to offer. Pexbo's post let me to believe that if we got a CM, we'd have no room in the squad for both Scholes and Giggs, if it comes to between either of them, the choice is simple for me.

Its about long term really, there comes a time when you have to phase out the older guard to give others a chance and build for the future.

Reapersoul20 said:
Thank you for a bit of sense.

Sweet Jesus, some of the people here amaze me.
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Whats so ridiculous about what i said?

Giggsy is a legend, yes, but there comes a time when we have to plan for the future. Neither of him or scholes are going to be around next season, it'l be stupid to let them both leave at once with a new player brought in to take over immediately.

A much more sensible solution would be to keep one of them(If we really have to pick 1 because of the squad limit), if not both around while getting a new CM so as to give the new guy ample time and also have an insurance in case things go wrong.
 
I think the whole situation is pretty simple, we won't win the league or the champions league with our current midfield.
 
Giggs and scholes have been written off by some people for years not but they just keep going. We are really (yes we actually are) getting to the point where they are going to retire soon, it just has to happen whether we like it or not. We really shouldny wait until the last minute to introduce a successor. We bought Anderson as a replacement about 5 years back and he still hasn't proved he is capable (yet at least). The moral is that we just can not afford to expect someone to step up to the plate immediately and must give them time to bed in. A CM this summer is a must in my eyes
 
westlife4ever said:
That's not his middle name. Balcazar is his mother's surname.

Given name + family name(father's surname) + mother's surname. That's how a Spanish name forms.
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That's still a middle name to me, g.


Hellboy said:
I think the whole situation is pretty simple, we won't win the league or the champions league with our current midfield.
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This, will be difficult to really believe anything will change going into next season and will be oh so wrong.
 
Hellboy said:
I think the whole situation is pretty simple, we won't win the league or the champions league with our current midfield.
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We're not in a Champions League winning stage of this squads development anyway. Signing a world class midfielder isn't going to change that. The experienced players are that little bit past their best, we only have 4 players peaking and the rest are about 3 years off being in the peak stage of their career. I'm not saying its impossible, of course, but I'd rather see this squad develop organically and grow into a team like Barca did than try a quick fix cookie cut player like Madrid generally do.
 
Pexbo said:
We're not in a Champions League winning stage of this squads development anyway. Signing a world class midfielder isn't going to change that. The experienced players are that little bit past their best, we only have 4 players peaking and the rest are about 3 years off being in the peak stage of their career. I'm not saying its impossible, of course, but I'd rather see this squad develop organically and grow into a team like Barca did than try a quick fix cookie cut player like Madrid generally do.
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Barca usually spend more money then we do.
 
Pexbo said:
We're not in a Champions League winning stage of this squads development anyway. Signing a world class midfielder isn't going to change that. The experienced players are that little bit past their best, we only have 4 players peaking and the rest are about 3 years off being in the peak stage of their career. I'm not saying its impossible, of course, but I'd rather see this squad develop organically and grow into a team like Barca did than try a quick fix cookie cut player like Madrid generally do.
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I'll jump in before you get howled down, and say yeah, I agree.
 
Pexbo said:
We're not in a Champions League winning stage of this squads development anyway. Signing a world class midfielder isn't going to change that. The experienced players are that little bit past their best, we only have 4 players peaking and the rest are about 3 years off being in the peak stage of their career. I'm not saying its impossible, of course, but I'd rather see this squad develop organically and grow into a team like Barca did than try a quick fix cookie cut player like Madrid generally do.
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If Berbatov, Hargreaves and Anderson had worked out as expected, and we'd held on to Ronaldo and Tevez, we'd be challenging for the CL no problem.

Our present position is more due to bad luck and bad judgement than the 'stage of development' of the squad.
 
Will Absolute said:
If Berbatov, Hargreaves and Anderson had worked out as expected, and we'd held on to Ronaldo and Tevez, we'd be challenging for the CL no problem.

Our present position is more due to bad luck and bad judgement than the 'stage of development' of the squad.
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You're not wrong, but I think he's talking about how it is, rather than how it could have been.
 
Pexbo said:
We're not in a Champions League winning stage of this squads development anyway. Signing a world class midfielder isn't going to change that. The experienced players are that little bit past their best, we only have 4 players peaking and the rest are about 3 years off being in the peak stage of their career. I'm not saying its impossible, of course, but I'd rather see this squad develop organically and grow into a team like Barca did than try a quick fix cookie cut player like Madrid generally do.
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And if this organically grown team fails to win major trophies in the next 3 years....what then?
 
Our squad is easily good enough to win the Champions League. With Vidic back we have the one of the best defence's in Europe, the best set of wingers with Nani and Valencia and Rooney, Kagawa, Hernandez and Welbeck is as good a set of attackers in the competition.

If we signed a quality central midfielder to partner Carrick I'd say only Barca and Real have a better chance at winning the Champions League.
 
Hellboy said:
I think the whole situation is pretty simple, we won't win the league or the champions league with our current midfield.
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We were ON THE SAME POINTS as the winners last year with us having our BEST defender out all season, and THREE MIDFIELDERS suffering season threatening injuries.

Are some of you people insane? Have you literally just forgot what happen 3 months ago?

feck me.
 
Also Chelsea just won the CL with a squad about 10 times worse off than ours. The other finalists Bayern Munich aren't exactly a million miles away.

Have you all forgotten this?
 
mightberight said:
It's not just a shitty site because of its pop-ups, mate. Most of the writers on it are volunteer, wannabe hacks and know absolutely feck all about anything going on in the football world.
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They are worse than a sizeable proportion of the posters on here tbf
 
Cina said:
I had completely forgotten!

While you're at it, how'd we do?
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To be fair to him Pexbo said this which a few were agreeing with,

Pexbo said:
We're not in a Champions League winning stage of this squads development anyway. Signing a world class midfielder isn't going to change that.
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which is just bollocks. If we signed a central midfielder then we definitely have a good enough team to win the Champions League.
 
Regardless of how close we are it doesn't mean we shouldn't address a clear weakness. Barca have been top of the pile for a long time now yet they still invest considerably year on year. Real do. Chelsea are rebuilding, they'll be stronger next year. You'd imagine city will build on next year. We're not far off personally and that's shown in how well we did last year with injuries. However there is still a weakness in the middle and simply put we lack a other midfielder in their physical peak, who is reliable fitness wise and personally for me has a solid defensive game. Getting in an additional player in this mould for me would solve so many issues. Firstly it gives us cover and an alternative to carrick . But also it gives us a player who can come in with carrick for games where we need to be more solid as well as an option if the likes of clev and ando do t improve on their injuries or step up.

I think unless fletcher is a guarantee to return at full fitness or even as a reliable option then not addressing this situation will be a big problem and if carrick does get injured I think our chances of success in the big two completions will be majorly hurt. It doesn't make sense not to get someone in unless they're certain about fletch and I would be suprised if they could be.
 
Will Absolute said:
If Berbatov, Hargreaves and Anderson had worked out as expected, and we'd held on to Ronaldo and Tevez, we'd be challenging for the CL no problem.

Our present position is more due to bad luck and bad judgement than the 'stage of development' of the squad.
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we probably would've won it again and be up there or thereabouts every single season
 
Theon said:
To be fair to him Pexbo said this which a few were agreeing with,



which is just bollocks. If we signed a central midfielder then we definitely have a good enough team to win the Champions League.
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umm, not sure our team could even win La Liga, let alone win the Champion's League tbh
 
Member 5225 said:
umm, not sure our team could even win La Liga, let alone win the Champion's League tbh
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-------- De Gea ------
Rafael--Rio--Vidic--Evra
-----Carrick--Modric----
Valencia--Kagawa--Nani
----- --Rooney------

Isn't good enough to win the Champions League? You must be joking...

Did you see who won it this year?

Only Barca and maybe Madrid have a better team than that. Although if we signed Modric I think we would be ahead of Madrid.
 
Damien1990 said:
1 Evra, Patrice Latyr
2 Ferdinand, Rio Gavin
3 Evans, Jonathan Grant
4 De Abreu Oliveira, Anderson Luis
5 Berbatov, Dimitar
6 Rooney, Wayne Mark
7 Giggs, Ryan Joseph
8 Smalling, Christopher
9 Park, Ji-Sung
10 Hernandez Balcazar, Javier
11 Vidic, Nemanja
12 Carrick, Michael
13 Almedia Da Cunha, Luis Carlos
14 Young, Ashley Simon
15 Cleverley, Thomas William
16 Fletcher, Darren Barr
17 Valencia Mosquera, Luis Antonio
18 Lindegaard, Anders Rozenkrantz
19 Kagawa, Shinji
20 De Gea Quinta, David
21 Dias Correia, Tiago Manuel
22 Amos, Benjamin Paul
23 Pereira da Silva, Rafael
24 Pereira da Silva, Fabio
25 Scholes, Paul
26 Welbeck, Daniel

There's probably a name or two I've missed/got wrong but I think those cover it. Berbatov'll be sold, Fletcher probably won't be registered and Fabio is going on loan.
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With Berba probably leaving, Bebe and Fabio getting loaned out, and the likes of Jones and Powell being exempt from registration, that would realistically put us at 23 with space for two more players, even including the assumption that Fletch will return and Park will remain with us for another year.

That suggests there is enough room for the alleged two more players we're interested in. Naturally if Fergie doesn't get the player(s) he wants, then we may see Berba staying with us until at least the winter window. Something tells me Fergie won't give up on Pogba until he physically signs with Juve.

If the two players on the table (let's say) Baines and Modric, were to become available, we could sign them, even with a glut of midfielders returning from injuries last year.
 
Twigginater said:
Also Chelsea just won the CL with a squad about 10 times worse off than ours. The other finalists Bayern Munich aren't exactly a million miles away.

Have you all forgotten this?
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Have you forgotten how many times we were humiliated last season? Continually in europe and pasted 1-6 by our biggest rivals at OT.

We failed to win a single game last season when we went behind. Sorry mate, we have gotten away for too long not sufficiently strengthening the midfield, and we are in danger of doing it again next season.

Whether Vidic comes back or not, we still have issues that are not being addressed. Having Vidic back would have helped our domestic form, but can you explain to me how his presence would have prevented us from being continually outplayed by every European team we faced bar Golati?
 
apotheosis said:
Have you forgotten how many times we were humiliated last season? Continually in europe and pasted 1-6 by our biggest rivals at OT.

We failed to win a single game last season when we went behind. Sorry mate, we have gotten away for too long not sufficiently strengthening the midfield, and we are in danger of doing it again next season.

Whether Vidic comes back or not, we still have issues that are not being addressed. Having Vidic back would have helped our domestic form, but can you explain to me how his presence would have prevented us from being continually outplayed by every European team we faced bar Golati?
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Why's that?
 
Raoul said:
With Berba probably leaving, Bebe and Fabio getting loaned out, and the likes of Jones and Powell being exempt from registration, that would realistically put us at 23 with space for two more players, even including the assumption that Fletch will return and Park will remain with us for another year.

That suggests there is enough room for the alleged two more players we're interested in. Naturally if Fergie doesn't get the player(s) he wants, then we may see Berba staying with us until at least the winter window. Something tells me Fergie won't give up on Pogba until he physically signs with Juve.

If the two players on the table (let's say) Baines and Modric, were to become available, we could sign them, even with a glut of midfielders returning from injuries last year.
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I agree with that. Don't think we'll sign Modric but a left back and a midfielder look likely and if what you say happens then there'll just about be enough space for two more signings and Pogba will be announced as a Juve player early next week finally putting an end to the saga.
 
apotheosis said:
Have you forgotten how many times we were humiliated last season? Continually in europe and pasted 1-6 by our biggest rivals at OT.

We failed to win a single game last season when we went behind. Sorry mate, we have gotten away for too long not sufficiently strengthening the midfield, and we are in danger of doing it again next season.

Whether Vidic comes back or not, we still have issues that are not being addressed. Having Vidic back would have helped our domestic form, but can you explain to me how his presence would have prevented us from being continually outplayed by every European team we faced bar Golati?
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Yes. We wold have had a good defender in there with whom perhaps we wouldn't have conceeded 3 goals multiple times.

We'd have won the league last year if Vidic was fit. Europe was a blip.
 
apotheosis said:
Have you forgotten how many times we were humiliated last season? Continually in europe and pasted 1-6 by our biggest rivals at OT.

We failed to win a single game last season when we went behind. Sorry mate, we have gotten away for too long not sufficiently strengthening the midfield, and we are in danger of doing it again next season.

Whether Vidic comes back or not, we still have issues that are not being addressed. Having Vidic back would have helped our domestic form, but can you explain to me how his presence would have prevented us from being continually outplayed by every European team we faced bar Golati?
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The sad part is that this is the bitter truth. Compared to our nearest rivals we are way behind in quality in the midfield department. What is there more to say who haven't been said?
 
Theon said:
-------- De Gea ------
Rafael--Rio--Vidic--Evra
-----Carrick--Modric----
Valencia--Kagawa--Nani
----- --Rooney------

Isn't good enough to win the Champions League? You must be joking...

Did you see who won it this year?

Only Barca and maybe Madrid have a better team than that. Although if we signed Modric I think we would be ahead of Madrid.
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Theon you are missing the point a bit here mate. Do you know why Chelsea won the CL? Because they defended en masse, had huge slices of luck against Barca, and had Drogba in the unplayable mood when they needed him.

We showed in Europe against Bilbao and others that we simply cannot defend like that with only one defensive minded midfielder in the whole squad. Nor do we have a striker like Drogba who when he is in the mood, no team can stop him.

I predict we have no more chance this year in the CL, than we had last season where it was fairly evident early on that we would struggle. Only Carrick yet again for the defensive role means we will again be playing 4-4-2, as any other formation requires someone else to defend alongside Carrick to free up a midfielder to support the attack through the middle. Otherwise we are solely dependent on service from the wings as we were last year, which is too predictable and easy to nullify, especially when the 2 most likely partners for Carrick are nearly 40!

People may claim that Anderson or Clev will come in, but neither are reliable, nor have they proved themselves effective in Europe. The bottom line is we still have only Carrick as an effective defender in midfield, and Scholes is still the only player we have who can dictate the pace of the game. Sorry but that is not enough to convince me we are going to fare any better this year, than we did last season. We need more.
 
I don't think you can use those games in the cl to get an idea of where we really are. We didn't play our strongest teams either as a result of injuries or fergie changing things. To me they weren't indicative of our true strength. That team theon has picked in my eyes is strong.

What those games have shown us is that we can't afford to keep changing things around and getting players to do jobs they're either not suited to or can't do. Additionally it showed then need for me for us to realise at times we need to play closer together etc, sometimes in a similar vain to England out players are to set in their positions. It also showed that we need another midfielder who can give us some defensive stability in there.


But either way that team is good, and certainly good enough to challenge on all fronts. As I've said I think we need another midfield option, they don't need too be a world beater or anything though.
 
Twigginater said:
Yes. We wold have had a good defender in there with whom perhaps we wouldn't have conceeded 3 goals multiple times.

We'd have won the league last year if Vidic was fit. Europe was a blip.
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So winning only 3 games out of 10, 2 of those against Golati. 3 clean sheets out of 10 and 2 of those against Golati was a blip.

That means we conceded 15 goals in 7 games. We lost 4 out of our last 5 games. We should have conceded even more in the games against Basel and Bilbao at OT.

That is not a blip Twig, it is a culmination of 2 or 3 seasons of making do in the midfield, when we should have been strengthening. It finally came back to bite us on the arse last year, and many of those results and performances were quite telling as to where this midfield currently stands in europe, against even average opposition.

Additionally our repeated failure to turn games around when we were behind should also indicate the lack of belief within the team itself. Rarely have i witnessed a Utd team who accepted defeat so readily. 1 point we managed all season from all the games we were behind in. 1single solitary point, which can only be attributed to a lack of belief, leadership and character.

So i see a pattern there myself Twig, and it is one that has been entirely predictable for those of us who do not walk around looking through rose tinted specs. It doesn't make you less of a fan to admit we may have issues that need addressing, it just makes you a less deluded one is all.
 
Ash_G said:
I don't think you can use those games in the cl to get an idea of where we really are. We didn't play our strongest teams either as a result of injuries or fergie changing things. To me they weren't indicative of our true strength. That team theon has picked in my eyes is strong.

What those games have shown us is that we can't afford to keep changing things around and getting players to do jobs they're either not suited to or can't do. Additionally it showed then need for me for us to realise at times we need to play closer together etc, sometimes in a similar vain to England out players are to set in their positions. It also showed that we need another midfielder who can give us some defensive stability in there.


But either way that team is good, and certainly good enough to challenge on all fronts. As I've said I think we need another midfield option, they don't need too be a world beater or anything though.
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So what you are saying in effect that we have to play our strongest team throughout the season, especially in europe? Probably true, but entirely unrealistic. Again we have only Carrick and Scholes who are proven effective in Europe as a defensive playmaker and a dictator. We have no others who can do what they do.

European games are won and lost in midfield and that is why we failed to win in the vast majority of them. So in effect what you are suggesting is that the squad itself is not strong enough. We cannot play Scholes and Carrick in every game, we paid a heavy price for doing exactly that at the end of last season in the league.

It's a squad game and a club of our standing should be able to swap and rest players against certain opposition, in order to save our first choice for the bigger games. The fact we cannot tells it's own story. It is what cost us last year, and even when we played our first choice it was far from good enough against the likes of Bilbao, never mind Barca.
 
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