David Gill Transfer warchest v2012

You can't look at it as black and white as that. In the early group stages we had to use a lot of young inexperienced defenders, coupled with a brand new inexperienced goalie and due to injuries we missed a lot of midfielders.

We made mistakes in Europe no doubt a do some players got found out as maybe needing to look at themselves form wise ie evra or maybe need to be moved on ie park.

But still we missed a lot of players due to injuries and that on boost had an effect.

Do you think the team theon suggested couldn't get through the group stage?

I've said before but context is hardly ever fully applied when talking about football. We were poor in Europe no doubt and we should have learnt something's from the season just gone but we also ha plenty of issues. Some of our losses or draws in the league were bad as well but there were times ie Blackburn where we were forced to put out a shadow team but that's barely ever mentioned.

The teams isn't that far away, if everyone were to stay fit for the the bulk of the season I don't think we'd have too many issues. But because of fletchers condition we do need extra cover in the middle both to give us that sort of option there but also as cover if ando and clev don't sort themselves out.
 
Ash_G said:
Do you think the team theon suggested couldn't get through the group stage?
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Of course, but it also has modric in it, which we don't! Getting past the group stage is hardly much of an expectation for a club of our standing, so that says it all really.

I am also not a fan of Rooney up front. Too slow, too small, can't dribble, and not particularly effective at holding the ball up. So all he can do with any regularity is drop deep to lay the ball off to a midfielder on the half way line.

The teams isn't that far away, if everyone were to stay fit for the the bulk of the season I don't think we'd have too many issues. But because of fletchers condition we do need extra cover in the middle both to give us that sort of option there but also as cover if ando and clev don't sort themselves out.
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Well that is the point Ash, we do need an alternative to Carrick, but we haven't got one, and that's the problem. Without it, we are simply not going to be able to play him in every single game, and when we don't play him the effectiveness of the team will suffer as a result.

I said exactly this last summer when everyone was shouting for Sneijder, and i am still saying it now. After the way the season panned out, surely what i suggested last summer was borne out over the course of the season.

Why should next year be any different, if the same detrimental issue is not addressed?
 
apotheosis said:
Of course, but it also has modric in it, which we don't! Getting past the group stage is hardly much of an expectation for a club of our standing, so that says it all really.

I am also not a fan of Rooney up front. Too slow, too small, can't dribble, and not particularly effective at holding the ball up. So all he can do with any regularity is drop deep to lay the ball off to a midfielder on the half way line.



Well that is the point Ash, we do need an alternative to Carrick, but we haven't got one, and that's the problem. Without it, we are simply not going to be able to play him in every single game, and when we don't play him the effectiveness of the team will suffer as a result.

I said exactly this last summer when everyone was shouting for Sneijder, and i am still saying it now. After the way the season panned out, surely what i suggested last summer was borne out over the course of the season.

Why should next year be any different, if the same detrimental issue is not addressed?
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Crap didn't realise it had modric in it, thought he had one of the other midfielders we have in there. Well I meant that a team of the current players we have is good enough to allow us to challenge, but that relies on certain key players keeping fit. I agree with you though that we need an alternative to carrick, more so than we need modric.
 
KingMinger22 said:
We don't need cover for MF we need first team starters for that position
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We don't need much imo. At the start of last season TC and Ando showed quite clearly how creative and prolific our attack can be. Unfortunately those 2 on their own were great going forward, but we conceded far too many chances to the opposition.

I would like us to change formation first and foremost. But to do that effectively we need more than Carrick. Another like him, say Sahin just for an example, would give us not only an alternative to Carrick, but we would have far more variety and flexibility with our tactics.

Last season's 4-5-1 attempts, away at Bilbao, then at Eastlands, indicated strongly how much goal threat we have to sacrifice when we try for a more solid look. We cannot release a midfielder to join the attack, because we have only Carrick who can be relied upon to track runners and screen the defence.

We have to change this if we are to improve. We need an all rounder, but not a whole midfield. Another Carrick alternative would ease most of our concerns and Sahin is my pick. He passes like Scholes, screens like Carrick and has proven himself capable of regularly dictating the play for a winning team. His age and his current situation at Madrid, plus his familiarity with Kagawa, make him the ideal target imo.
 
I'm expecting more of the "no one fits the bill, so we are happy with the squad" bullshit over the coming weeks.

Watching teams walk through and totally dominate our midfield was so depressing last season.
 
Getting ready for the 'no value in the market' spiel.... any... day... now
 
apotheosis said:
Of course, but it also has modric in it, which we don't! Getting past the group stage is hardly much of an expectation for a club of our standing, so that says it all really.

I am also not a fan of Rooney up front. Too slow, too small, can't dribble, and not particularly effective at holding the ball up. So all he can do with any regularity is drop deep to lay the ball off to a midfielder on the half way line.



Well that is the point Ash, we do need an alternative to Carrick, but we haven't got one, and that's the problem. Without it, we are simply not going to be able to play him in every single game, and when we don't play him the effectiveness of the team will suffer as a result.

I said exactly this last summer when everyone was shouting for Sneijder, and i am still saying it now. After the way the season panned out, surely what i suggested last summer was borne out over the course of the season.

Why should next year be any different, if the same detrimental issue is not addressed?
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Deary me. What on earth are you on about?

Statements like this just make me cringe.
 
apotheosis said:
Theon you are missing the point a bit here mate. Do you know why Chelsea won the CL? Because they defended en masse, had huge slices of luck against Barca, and had Drogba in the unplayable mood when they needed him.

We showed in Europe against Bilbao and others that we simply cannot defend like that with only one defensive minded midfielder in the whole squad. Nor do we have a striker like Drogba who when he is in the mood, no team can stop him.

I predict we have no more chance this year in the CL, than we had last season where it was fairly evident early on that we would struggle. Only Carrick yet again for the defensive role means we will again be playing 4-4-2, as any other formation requires someone else to defend alongside Carrick to free up a midfielder to support the attack through the middle. Otherwise we are solely dependent on service from the wings as we were last year, which is too predictable and easy to nullify, especially when the 2 most likely partners for Carrick are nearly 40!

People may claim that Anderson or Clev will come in, but neither are reliable, nor have they proved themselves effective in Europe. The bottom line is we still have only Carrick as an effective defender in midfield, and Scholes is still the only player we have who can dictate the pace of the game. Sorry but that is not enough to convince me we are going to fare any better this year, than we did last season. We need more.
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What am I missing the point of? I think that team would be, at worst, third favourites to win the Champions League. It's incredibly strong and one of the best United teams in recent years.

I agree about Anderson and Cleverley, which is why I had Modric in the team. The whole point was that if we sign a central midfielder, in this case Modric, then we would be one of the favourites for the CL.
 
I really hope we sign a midfielder, if only so those posters who resort to posting over and over that we need a midfielder in every single thread can finally shut the feck up and discuss something else.
 
apotheosis said:
We don't need much imo. At the start of last season TC and Ando showed quite clearly how creative and prolific our attack can be. Unfortunately those 2 on their own were great going forward, but we conceded far too many chances to the opposition.

I would like us to change formation first and foremost. But to do that effectively we need more than Carrick. Another like him, say Sahin just for an example, would give us not only an alternative to Carrick, but we would have far more variety and flexibility with our tactics.

Last season's 4-5-1 attempts, away at Bilbao, then at Eastlands, indicated strongly how much goal threat we have to sacrifice when we try for a more solid look. We cannot release a midfielder to join the attack, because we have only Carrick who can be relied upon to track runners and screen the defence.

We have to change this if we are to improve. We need an all rounder, but not a whole midfield. Another Carrick alternative would ease most of our concerns and Sahin is my pick. He passes like Scholes, screens like Carrick and has proven himself capable of regularly dictating the play for a winning team. His age and his current situation at Madrid, plus his familiarity with Kagawa, make him the ideal target imo.
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So, you'd be a fan of 4-5-1 with a better midfield, if we had someone who can do a similar job to what Carrick does but can also pass and dictate? Did I understand it correctly?

In that case I would ask who would be your 1? You're not a fan of playing Rooney there... so... Hernández? Welbeck? Also, would you really drop Rooney? Or you basically don't want us to deviate from 4-4-2?
 
Siorac said:
So, you'd be a fan of 4-5-1 with a better midfield, if we had someone who can do a similar job to what Carrick does but can also pass and dictate? Did I understand it correctly?

In that case I would ask who would be your 1? You're not a fan of playing Rooney there... so... Hernández? Welbeck? Also, would you really drop Rooney? Or you basically don't want us to deviate from 4-4-2?
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No not a 'fan' of 4-5-1. What i am suggesting is with another carrick alternative, we would at least be able to play 2 solid midfielders and release another through the middle to support a lone striker, something we couldn't do last season.

None of those formations are ones i would want to stick to rigidly every week, the whole point would be to give us more variety in the systems we choose. Instead of the ridiculously predictable 4-4-2 we have to play now to maintain any attacking threat. Welbeck would be my one atm.
 
Theon said:
What am I missing the point of? I think that team would be, at worst, third favourites to win the Champions League. It's incredibly strong and one of the best United teams in recent years.
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In the sense that Chelasea didn't just win it because they had a strong team. They won it through the tactics they employed, huge slices of luck when needed, and Drogba's contribution helped them keep an attacking threat on the counter. We have no Drogba, only one DM of any description, and are not particularly effective playing so defensively.

I wasn't knocking the team, simply pointing out what tactics Chelsea employed, and that few teams win the CL playing anything other way. Teams tend to win the CL playing tight, defensive tactics with a counter attacking threat. After watching our campaign last season, it would be hard to see how we could replicate that.

I agree about Anderson and Cleverley, which is why I had Modric in the team. The whole point was that if we sign a central midfielder, in this case Modric, then we would be one of the favourites for the CL.
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We are always one of the favourites Theon. But based on last year our problems were not being able to stop our opponents creating chances, we did ok when we had the ball. Stopping the opposition scoring was our problem. Both Bilbao and Basel at OT could have had 6 goals apiece, and they are hardly the greatest of teams.

A CM would help but it would depend what type imo, if it is one good enough to help alleviate the issues we suffered from last season, then great. buying another winger or AM, will probably not help imo.
 
Its July the first today

Gill is either:

(a) Sat in the warchest, bundling together the notes for the Modric transfer
(b) Working away at the lock with a chisel and penknife
(c) Still looking for it, probably somewhere in the Urals by now
(d) Tweaking his 'we're happy with our squad' speech having given up on trying to get it open / find it altogether
(e) Sat browsing the caf and laughing at muppets like me who are wondering what he is doing
 
Comsmit said:
Deary me. What on earth are you on about?

Statements like this just make me cringe.
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NoLogo said:
All he can do is layups everyone knows that. The 35 goals last season were just a fluke. :wenger: :lol:
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FFS! Read some more of the thread to get the correct context, not just pick one piece out of one post to shake your head at! :rolleyes:

Ash and i are discussing Theon's team he offered a page back. I am referring to Rooney playing up front on his own with his back to goal, you know like the 4-5-1 we played away at Bilbao, and the game at Eastlands. Not up front generally, so cringe and :wenger: yourselves!
 
apotheosis said:
FFS! Read some more of the thread to get the correct context, not just pick one piece out of one post to shake your head at! :rolleyes:

Ash and i are discussing Theon's team he offered a page back. I am referring to Rooney playing up front on his own with his back to goal, you know like the 4-5-1 we played away at Bilbao, and the game at Eastlands. Not up front generally, so cringe and :wenger: yourselves!
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I have been reading the thread, and your pointless spiel over the past few pages (although I do concur with you about Sahin, he's class). So I am aware of the "context" if that's what you want to call it.

Truth is I really don't care about that. I just felt I needed to register my utter contempt for that ridiculous paragraph you gave us.
 
Comsmit said:
I have been reading the thread, and your pointless spiel over the past few pages (although I do concur with you about Sahin, he's class). So I am aware of the "context" if that's what you want to call it.

Truth is I really don't care about that. I just felt I needed to register my utter contempt for that ridiculous paragraph you gave us.
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Why is it ridiculous to suggest i don't like Rooney playing up front on his own? He had a great season there a few years ago, but i think he can contribute far more generally playing in the position he played this season, rather than getting kicked to feck with his back to goal. What's so wrong with that?

Tell you what though don't even bother replying, because i really don't give the slightest feck about your opinion anyway, almost every post i read of yours has the intention to put down or belittle whoever you are responding to. So you can take your contempt and shove it far up your own self indulgent, arrogant and condescending arse! Gimp!
 
Crustanoid said:
Its July the first today

Gill is either:

(a) Sat in the warchest, bundling together the notes for the Modric transfer
(b) Working away at the lock with a chisel and penknife
(c) Still looking for it, probably somewhere in the Urals by now
(d) Tweaking his 'we're happy with our squad' speech having given up on trying to get it open / find it altogether
(e) Sat browsing the caf and laughing at muppets like me who are wondering what he is doing
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Lol it's probably (d)
 
apotheosis said:
Why is it ridiculous to suggest i don't like Rooney playing up front on his own? He had a great season there a few years ago, but i think he can contribute far more generally playing in the position he played this season, rather than getting kicked to feck with his back to goal. What's so wrong with that?

Tell you what though don't even bother replying, because i really don't give the slightest feck about your opinion anyway, almost every post i read of yours has the intention to put down or belittle whoever you are responding to. So you can take your contempt and shove it far up your own self indulgent, arrogant and condescending arse! Gimp!
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Wow. Your vitriolic putdown has really put me in my place for sure. I've been spending the last 24 hours pondering the error of my ways. I can't help being this terrible bully don't blame me its a symptom of an indulged upbringing.

Although just a few things before I go.

You are quite entitled to suggest you don't like Rooney as a lone striker, it's just your reflection on his capabilities in that role that is complete rubbish. Also the games you mention were notable for the complete lack of support he received going forward. He can't really do much about that can he?

Secondly I think you do give a feck about my opinion otherwise you would not have bothered replying in the first place. I'm not trying to belittle anyone merely question opinion, if I come across like that to you well tough. I actually agreed with your promotion of Nuri Sahin as our missing midfield piece but i'm quite prepared for someone to put me in my place if its justified. I'm not being funny but to me you are the self-indulgent one. I've noticed you like to litter threads with posts that are mainly repetitive. Just get to the point I reckon.
 
The truth is, we don't had a clue how Rooney can play as a lone striker with someone as creative as Kagawa behind him. The last time he had someone consistantly creating chances for him and he built up a rapport it was Valencia and that resulted in a record goal tally for him.

For neither United not England has he had any sort of creativity directly behind him.
 
there is a possibility that another potential signing may depend on Berbatov and if we can get him off the wage bill - clubs could play hardball with United as he has 1 year left and it could drag on well into August

the later we buy the more we save - buying a player on 1st of August saves a months wages (maybe 600k) which is a cynical but realistic

either way the muppets amongst us should prepare themselves for a long frustrating summer
 
''I am also not a fan of Rooney up front. Too slow, too small, can't dribble, and not particularly effective at holding the ball up. So all he can do with any regularity is drop deep to lay the ball off to a midfielder on the half way line.''

You think you've seen it all.
 
JakeC said:
''I am also not a fan of Rooney up front. Too slow, too small, can't dribble, and not particularly effective at holding the ball up. So all he can do with any regularity is drop deep to lay the ball off to a midfielder on the half way line.''

You think you've seen it all.
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Indeed.
 
Pexbo said:
The truth is, we don't had a clue how Rooney can play as a lone striker with someone as creative as Kagawa behind him. The last time he had someone consistantly creating chances for him and he built up a rapport it was Valencia and that resulted in a record goal tally for him.

For neither United not England has he had any sort of creativity directly behind him.
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Which i have to point out, is exactly why i made the statement i did. Directly in response to Theon's claim that if Chelsea can win the CL then so could we, with the team he suggested. Rooney imo, cannot play the role that Drogba played for Chelsea. He was a huge reason why Chelsea were as regularly effective as they were in the CL.

Having a player like that up front makes it a lot easier to defend en masse, knowing that when the ball goes forward they have a player who can hold the ball up the majority of the time. In contrast when we play 4-5-1 with Rooney as the lone striker, we don't support him through the middle, he hasn't the pace for balls over the top or into the channels, nor has he the size to hold the ball up against 2 CB's. Which usually leaves him the option i suggested of dropping deep to lay the ball off to our fairly deep midfield.

Kagawa may help in that regard, but to presume his arrival will transform us into CL winners is a bit hasty at this point. On top of that i felt we were fairly poor without the ball, even when we adopted a 4-5-1 against both Bilbao's clever movement and runs from deep areas.
 
Its amazing how people will react without reading the context of the post. For all the rolleyes and lol smileys, do any of you really think Rooney can play the Drogba role? :confused:
 
Sir Alex Ferguson has revealed there could be more signings during the transfer window as the club continues to work behind the scenes in that area.

The United boss suggested in an exclusive interview with MUTV that Shinji Kagawa and Nick Powell may not be the only arrivals this summer if his plans bear fruit. Despite intense media speculation, the Reds will continue to conduct any negotiations in private and it often proves to be a lengthy business.

When asked if he is hoping to make further additions, he replied: "Yes, there's a possibility. We’re working on one or two things but there’s nothing really to tell you to be honest.

"We always try to get our work done at the end of the season – we spent a good deal of time sorting the deal with Shinji and we’d agreed a deal with Nick Powell before the play-offs which was a good move by us because the boy had an outstanding final at Wembley.

"When you don’t get deals done immediately and you’re negotiating with a club over a long period, then you can’t expect to just snap your fingers and get it done."

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...gnings-possible-mutv-exclusive-interview.aspx
 
I think our main business is done, a couple of promising youngsters a la Jones and Smalling could be on the cards though.
 
wr8_utd said:
Sir Alex Ferguson has revealed there could be more signings during the transfer window as the club continues to work behind the scenes in that area.

The United boss suggested in an exclusive interview with MUTV that Shinji Kagawa and Nick Powell may not be the only arrivals this summer if his plans bear fruit. Despite intense media speculation, the Reds will continue to conduct any negotiations in private and it often proves to be a lengthy business.

When asked if he is hoping to make further additions, he replied: "Yes, there's a possibility. We’re working on one or two things but there’s nothing really to tell you to be honest.

"We always try to get our work done at the end of the season – we spent a good deal of time sorting the deal with Shinji and we’d agreed a deal with Nick Powell before the play-offs which was a good move by us because the boy had an outstanding final at Wembley.

"When you don’t get deals done immediately and you’re negotiating with a club over a long period, then you can’t expect to just snap your fingers and get it done."

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...gnings-possible-mutv-exclusive-interview.aspx
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:drool:
 
Must. Buy. Left back.

(I've given up all hope of us ever having a young, dynamic midfield again)
 
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