David De Gea

prtk0811 said:
35 m for inexprienced keeper who is not in national team, who is epl inexperienced and does not have a huge marketing potential.
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I don't think City give a feck about marketing their goalkeeper tbf.
 
prtk0811 said:
35 m for inexprienced keeper who is not in national team, who is epl inexperienced and does not have a huge marketing potential.
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Just because City have paid massively over the odds doesn't mean other teams will - City, Utd, etc. are happy to throw away cash by massively overpaying for players - I would actually be furious if my club spent that sort of money on a goalkeeper personally.
 
prtk0811 said:
35 m for inexprienced keeper who is not in national team, who is epl inexperienced and does not have a huge marketing potential.
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Three arguments a team like City gives literally zero fecks about. And are people really still paying attention to the "PL experience" argument? Conte didn't have it, Zlatan didn't have it, Sanchez didn't have it, it just does not matter.
 
People are going to eventually realize there are no set rules for how much clubs pay for a transfer. It comes down entirely to what the two clubs negotiate.
 
balaks said:
Of course it matters, you can't compare transfer fees of outfield players to goalkeepers unless you are happy to ignore everything that has occurred in the last 100 years of football.
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Why are defenders going to 50 m? then and possibly more in comming days? that too relatively inexperienced which has not hit top level.
 
BigCaine said:
So say we sell ddg for 60mn what then who replaces him, as far as i know there are only 3 players available who are nearly as good as ddg or atleast will be as good. Neuer, oblak and courtouis and none are going to be available for 60mn. Even getting donarumma for 60mn will be difficult in todays market.

The worst part it is utd fans saying ddg isn't worth it, people want us to pay 50mn each which is apparently cheap in today's market for morata and james when neither player is in top 10 players of the world. Morata isn't even in top 10 strikers of the world but 60mn is big money for the world's best keeper.
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I agree - I don't want Morata or James.

I'm more interested in improving our defence than getting one of the best goalkeepers in the world. I'd be happy with a very good keeper if we get a great CB to pair with Bailly.
 
prtk0811 said:
Why are defenders going to 50 m? then and possibly more in comming days? that too relatively inexperienced which has not hit top level.
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A defender is still an outfield player. A goalkeeper is an entirely different situation.
 
RobinLFC said:
Three arguments a team like City gives literally zero fecks about. And are people really still paying attention to the "PL experience" argument? Conte didn't have it, Zlatan didn't have it, Sanchez didn't have it, it just does not matter.
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Loris karius is a prime example himself.
 
balaks said:
Of course it matters, you can't compare transfer fees of outfield players to goalkeepers unless you are happy to ignore everything that has occurred in the last 100 years of football.
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You can if your goalkeeper is on the level of De Gea to where he is literally a game changer. Clubs pay world record fees for game changers, a goalkeeper is no different.
 
balaks said:
Yeah really. Goalkeepers do not go for nearly as much as outfield players - that's just how it is. We signed him for about £12 million I think.
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Wasn't the £12mil a bit of a touchy subject though? I seem to remember Lyon being really unhappy about it, and when we were apparently interested a couple of seasons before Spurs signed him the quoted price was about £30mil. Was he in the last year of his contract or something?

I get your point though, outfield players are always going to cost more. I was listening to talksport last night and they were having a big argument about how no matter the importance of a GK, you would rather lose them over one of your best outfield players. It's true.
 
balaks said:
Just because City have paid massively over the odds doesn't mean other teams will - City, Utd, etc. are happy to throw away cash by massively overpaying for players - I would actually be furious if my club spent that sort of money on a goalkeeper personally.
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The early transfers sets the price/expectations for the rest of the transfer period. So the clubs will be saying that Ederson is uncapped, playing in a inferior league costs 34squllions,... then a player considered to be Top 3 in the world... Prices are always set based on relativity for that transfer period.
 
prtk0811 said:
Why are defenders going to 50 m? then and possibly more in comming days? that too relatively inexperienced which has not hit top level.
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A quick google search shows that only two defenders have gone for more than £35m, actually, both bought by sugar daddy teams. If you pay £50m for a defender, you're either getting ripped off or paying massively over the odds.
 
prtk0811 said:
Loris karius is a prime example himself.
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People fail, people succeed - whether they have PL experience is hardly a factor in that process. There are plenty of examples of "PL proven players" who failed after a switch as well.
 
M4YON said:
You can if your goalkeeper is on the level of De Gea to where he is literally a game changer. Clubs pay world record fees for game changers, a goalkeeper is no different.
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He is only a goalkeeper - he may be one of the very best in the world but at the end of the day a goalkeeper has much less impact on a game than an outfield player generally.
 
balaks said:
£60 million for a goalkeeper is absolutely insane - £40 million at most for the very best imo in the current market. Mind you, if you do sell him and manage to extort £60 million from Madrid then you will be laughing.
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I have never understood this argument - "for a goalkeeper".

Are you supposed to just value players by goals and assists? How about the actual number of points a player gains for you during a season?

Goalies have been way underpriced for decades.
 
RobinLFC said:
For all the talk of £45m, City has apparently bought him for £35m. I stand by what I said last night, £50m would be a fair price for De Gea if he wants to leave. If not, he's not going anywhere regardless of the price.
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£35mil is still a ridiculous amount for a GK with only a couple of seasons in Portugal under his belt, don't you think?

I would expect nearly double that for DDG. £60mil is the minimum I would expect to sell him for, regardless of whether he wants to leave or not.

Unless we want to take a huge step down in quality he'll be so expensive to replace too.
 
balaks said:
He is only a goalkeeper - he may be one of the very best in the world but at the end of the day a goalkeeper has much less impact on a game than an outfield player generally.
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Only if your team are good enough to prevent any shots whatsoever.
 
The Cat said:
I have never understood this argument - "for a goalkeeper".

Are you supposed to just value players by goals and assists? How about the actual number of points a player gains for you during a season?

Goalies have been way underpriced for decades.
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No they havent. Goalkeepers have a limited impact on games - yes the really good ones can make saves at a higher rate than an average one but they all let goals in, they have little or no impact on the actual flow of a game - they are by far the least impactful position in the game. This is just a fact and they are priced as such.
 
balaks said:
He is only a goalkeeper - he may be one of the very best in the world but at the end of the day a goalkeeper has much less impact on a game than an outfield player generally.
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Untrue, especially in the latter stages of the CL where games are much more closely fought. If the game is a walk in the park a goalkeeper does nothing, if a game is difficult a goalkeeper becomes your most valuable asset.

Personally think Real Madrid are nuts, Keylor Navas is a fantastic goalkeeper.
 
De Gea has won us as many points as any of our attackers in the last 4-5 seasons, therefore his worth is the same. 80m and we'll talk
 
balaks said:
No they havent. Goalkeepers have a limited impact on games - yes the really good ones can make saves at a higher rate than an average one but they all let goals in, they have little or no impact on the actual flow of a game - they are by far the least impactful position in the game. This is just a fact and they are priced as such.
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That is not a fact at all. A great goalkeeper can mean the difference between winning and losing the league.

Did Schemichel's save against Bergkamp have no impact on the flow of the game when Giggsy ran up the other end to knock Arsenal out?
 
balaks said:
He is only a goalkeeper - he may be one of the very best in the world but at the end of the day a goalkeeper has much less impact on a game than an outfield player generally.
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True, but you've only got to look as far as Bravo to see how much of an impact poor goalkeeping can have on your team. City have already spent over 50m replacing Hart.

We shouldn't forget the long road to finding Van Der Sar too. We got a bit lucky with De Gea; who would've thought 6 years later that he'd be as good as he is right now?
 
M4YON said:
Untrue, especially in the latter stages of the CL where games are much more closely fought. If the game is a walk in the park a goalkeeper does nothing, if a game is difficult a goalkeeper becomes your most valuable asset.

Personally think Real Madrid are nuts, Keykor Navas is a fantastic goalkeeper.
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You are massively overinflating it - goalkeepers can make important saves and can start moves if they have good distribution but outside of that they have no impact on a game. When choosing a team would you rather have the best goalkeeper in the world or the best defender in the world? I'd rather have the best defender in the world with a decent goalkeeper behind him - that is more likely to be successful than the best goalkeeper in the world sitting behind an average defence.
 
By the way - I'm not saying De Gea wont go for £60 million plus - he may well do. I just think it's stupid money to pay for a goalkeeper, any goalkeeper.
 
A goalie is worth what someone is willing to pay.. this whole argument, outfield player vs goalkeeper is nonsense to me.

Why wouldnt De Gea be worth what a midfielder is worth? He is the best (or near best) in the world vs a midfielder who is nowhere near that level.

It comes down to people who think Goalkeepers are not as important to a team than an outfield player. But I for one would be willing to pay for De Gea than have someone like Callabero in goal. Having world class players in as many positions as possible should be our ultimate aim.

Also the figures bandied about for Mbappe (£100m +) shows that £60m is not that ridiculous and in a year or two could look cheap.
 
prtk0811 said:
No its not an entirely different situation in the modern game. Not one bit.
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Of course it is. I'll ask again - would you rather have the best GK in the world behind an average defender or the best defender in the world in front of an average GK?
 
balaks said:
You are massively overinflating it - goalkeepers can make important saves and can start moves if they have good distribution but outside of that they have no impact on a game. When choosing a team would you rather have the best goalkeeper in the world or the best defender in the world? I'd rather have the best defender in the world with a decent goalkeeper behind him - that is more likely to be successful than the best goalkeeper in the world sitting behind an average defence.
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If so whyis madrid even after de gea when they have such a good goal keeper themselves?
 
balaks said:
You are massively overinflating it - goalkeepers can make important saves and can start moves if they have good distribution but outside of that they have no impact on a game. When choosing a team would you rather have the best goalkeeper in the world or the best defender in the world? I'd rather have the best defender in the world with a decent goalkeeper behind him - that is more likely to be successful than a the best goalkeeper in the world sitting behind an average defence.
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Schalke 04 Vs Manchester United 2011.

Ended 0 - 2 to United the game was more one sided than I've seen in a long time, it should of been 10 easily but Neuer made save after save. The pure impact of that goalkeeper kept it at that score.

That impact is important in the CL its the kind of impact Barcelona could of done with against PSG away, against Juventus and its worth just as much as some of the best outfield players in the world.
 
We should only sell De Gea when he is not doing the job and we know we can get someone better. We should not just sell him because a team offered a lot of money. We do not need the money and we should never intentionally weaken the squad.
 
balaks said:
Of course it is. I'll ask again - would you rather have the best GK in the world behind an average defender or the best defender in the world in front of an average GK?
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Is keylor navas an average keeper?
 
CL winning GK since 2000

Keylor
Ter Stegen
Iker(past it)
Neuer
Cech
Victor Valdes
Julio Cesar
Victor Valdes
Van Der Sar
Dida(past it)
Victor Valdes
Dudek
Vitor Baia
Dida
Cesar/Iker(played last 20 mins in the final)
Kahn
Iker(19 yo)
 
JJ12 said:
Thanks for the history lesson but you forgot Ronaldo.

Not once have I suggested we are a selling club. 60m for a goalkeeper is ridiculous for a goalkeeper who only 2 years ago nearly signed for them for far less.
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He has 2 years+1. When a club doesn't want to sell, you have to pay through your nose and bring them on to the table or feck off.

When a club is ready to sell then the value is negotiable. Don't think United will negotiate. Any sane person wouldn't compare it to the season when he was in last year of his contract. At that time anyone can pull any clubs underwear.
 
M4YON said:
Schalke 04 Vs Manchester United 2011.

Ended 0 - 2 to United the game was more one sided than I've seen in a long time, it should of been 10 easily but Neuer made save after save. The pure impact of that goalkeeper kept it at that score.

That impact is important in the CL its the kind of impact Barcelona could of done with against PSG away, against Juventus and its worth just as much as some of the best outfield players in the world.
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Exactly.
 
giorno said:
CL winning GK since 2000

Keylor
Ter Stegen
Iker(past it)
Neuer
Cech
Victor Valdes
Julio Cesar
Victor Valdes
Van Der Sar
Dida(past it)
Victor Valdes
Dudek
Vitor Baia
Dida
Cesar/Iker(played last 20 mins in the final)
Kahn
Iker(19 yo)
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Great teams have great goalkeepers, or what's your point exactly?
 
prtk0811 said:
You are trying to make a point in one direction and i am in reverse direction.
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No you are not answering my question because you know and I know that having a world class defender is worth more than having a world class goalkeeper which reinforces my position that a goalkeeper has less of an impact than an outfield player and therefore is worth less in terms of transfer fees. I'd guess that most people would agree with me. To agree with me is no slight on De Gea by the way.
 
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