Except it wasn’t. It was poor play from AWB. I’d still get a new keeper because his lack of command of the 6 yard box costs us all the time.
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Except it wasn’t. It was poor play from AWB. I’d still get a new keeper because his lack of command of the 6 yard box costs us all the time.
what can you say?
This 'punch' is something you'd get peltered for while playing football with you school friends, let alone on the biggest stage in a derby.
For all his mistakes to say their 1st goal started with his bad distribution is a big stretch. AWB lost the ball and there's about 15 seconds more of playing till the corner.
De Gea plays A.W.B into trouble, A.W.B should do better but also watch De Gea after he makes the pass, goes back towards his line, he must see the A.W.B is in trouble he could make an angle for a pass back to him but he just reverts to his line no interest in helping his teammate.
It's the unseen with De Gea that does the damage, more corners against, more defensive pressure less time with the ball to build attacks all because he is so passive.
We have been playing a high defensive line the majority of this season, and DDG has not hindered that. Then you have games like City and Arsenal where we were played out of the part because of our lack of quality in the middle and in attack, very little to do with DDG. And this "going" on for decades is pure bullshit. DDG has been the best Manchester United player on consistent basis the last 10 years, and like majority of his teammates has adapted to different manager way of playing. He is also a PL winner and one of the best GK of the world whether you statistic back that or not is your problem and that of you short and selective memory.
The chaos he creates
He usually sweeps and cleans the chaos created in front of him by regularly sub par teammates. Non existing midfield control and shite defense. And that goal against Palace perfectly describes how a sub par striker a shit midfield play goes all the back to blame DDG "hoof". Yeah Neuer and Ederson have 100% long passing accuracy according to the likes of you.
Well I'd say he doesnt have shit defense thing going for him anymore.We have been playing a high defensive line the majority of this season, and DDG has not hindered that. Then you have games like City and Arsenal where we were played out of the part because of our lack of quality in the middle and in attack, very little to do with DDG. And this "going" on for decades is pure bullshit. DDG has been the best Manchester United player on consistent basis the last 10 years, and like majority of his teammates has adapted to different manager way of playing. He is also a PL winner and one of the best GK of the world whether you statistic back that or not is your problem and that of you short and selective memory.
The chaos he creates
He usually sweeps and cleans the chaos created in front of him by regularly sub par teammates. Non existing midfield control and shite defense. And that goal against Palace perfectly describes how a sub par striker a shit midfield play goes all the back to blame DDG "hoof". Yeah Neuer and Ederson have 100% long passing accuracy according to the likes of you.
His sweeping qualities have been a bit better but he's still glued to the line most of the game. For example he should have gone for the ball before their 1st goal, ball was flying along his 5 meters line and he just watched it.
Basically sums up my feelings about him as well.
"I don't have to show anything, I have shown already for many years my qualities. I know people love to talk, but I'm used to that," he affirmed ahead of the trip to North London which proved to be United's first league defeat in eight games. "I'm just performing as well as I can, helping the team and trying my best all the time. Experience makes it easier to block out the noise.
"I live a lot of things, I get through many, many difficult moments. I don't care to be honest, I just focus on my games, on my training and on my team. I'm feeling great, I'm feeling really well. I'm helping the team, training well, feeling confident. Like the whole team, we're playing well."
It's no surprise to learn that De Gea is willing to take a pay cut in order to stay at Old Trafford beyond June. Mirror Football understands that the former Athletic Bilbao starlet is expected to put pen to paper on reduced terms, as he's currently earning an eye-watering £375,000 per week.
" Yeah, I'm very relaxed [about the contract], just focussed on training, performing as best as I can. But, for sure, it's going to end in a good way," De Gea recently stated. "I was saying this is my club, I've been here many, many years and it's a huge honour to be here and I’m so happy here."
"I live a lot of things, I get through many, many difficult moments. I don't care to be honest, I just focus on my games, on my training and on my team. I'm feeling great, I'm feeling really well. I'm helping the team, training well, feeling confident. Like the whole team, we're playing well."
It's no surprise to learn that De Gea is willing to take a pay cut in order to stay at Old Trafford beyond June. Mirror Football understands that the former Athletic Bilbao starlet is expected to put pen to paper on reduced terms, as he's currently earning an eye-watering £375,000 per week.
" Yeah, I'm very relaxed [about the contract], just focussed on training, performing as best as I can. But, for sure, it's going to end in a good way," De Gea recently stated. "I was saying this is my club, I've been here many, many years and it's a huge honour to be here and I’m so happy here."
Are you seriously trying to tell me that dealing with crosses into the box, communicating with your defenders, dealing with balls in behind defenders, taking the sting out of the game etc hasen't been part of a goalkeepers job for decades? Christ I should probably go back 20/25 years and stop doing those things when I played and coaching those elements to the all the lads I've trained because some muppet on the internet says they're not part of the goalkeepers job.We have been playing a high defensive line the majority of this season, and DDG has not hindered that. Then you have games like City and Arsenal where we were played out of the part because of our lack of quality in the middle and in attack, very little to do with DDG. And this "going" on for decades is pure bullshit. DDG has been the best Manchester United player on consistent basis the last 10 years, and like majority of his teammates has adapted to different manager way of playing. He is also a PL winner and one of the best GK of the world whether you statistic back that or not is your problem and that of you short and selective memory.
The chaos he creates
He usually sweeps and cleans the chaos created in front of him by regularly sub par teammates. Non existing midfield control and shite defense. And that goal against Palace perfectly describes how a sub par striker a shit midfield play goes all the back to blame DDG "hoof". Yeah Neuer and Ederson have 100% long passing accuracy according to the likes of you.
And yeah, the chaos he creates. He instills panic, that's not to say those in front of him haven't done that over the years but he contributes. He regularly puts rebounds back into problematic areas and doesn't deal with balls that are the goalkeepers to take, which in turn allows the opponents to keep attacks alive. And no, neither Ederson nor Neuer have 100% long passing accuracy, but if you can't see that a long pass wasn't needed in that instance v Palace because Martinez had dropped into a very simple passing option 10-15 yards from De Gea then I don't really know what to say. The other issue with his hoof is that's exactly what it was, when a goalkeeper like Ramsdale for example is pressed and has to hit the ball upfield, he will generally aim to turn the defenders; more often than not not even aiming for a team-mate, he's aiming to hit the ball over the top of the opposition full backs; De Gea literally just kicked the ball high into the air in the dead centre of the pitch.
Jonathan Greening is a Champions League winner, maybe we should get him back too?
De Gea is a legend, but some times the manager have to take tough choices for the benefit of the team. There is no way Ten Han is able to really play the football he wants until a modern keeper comes in. In all honesty I think De Gea has improved his short passing and willingness to sweep behind the defence, but a lot of that is down to a better plan from the coaching staff aswell. If De Gea really loves the club, like I think he does, he should sign a new deal with a reasonable salary, accepting a role as second choice gk, but that won’t happen.
Are you seriously telling me that DDG the PL winner, one of the best GK in the world for the past 15 years doesn't communicate or do the basics of GK good enough for you the famous GK trainer that shades light on us on the redcafe? You are telling me that Sir Alex, LVG, Mourinho and now ETH have zero clue about GK and haven't addressed this? Christ what were these people doing in the football industry.
You blubber so much bullshit I am not going to waste my time after this.
So much overelaborating in this thread and you go and mention Ramsdale. Ramsdale had a pass success of 64% against us while DDG was on 67%. The previous game against Spurs, Ramsdale had 32%. As I said you are so full of shit it's pathetic
Well he doesn't have a shit defense in front of him but neither is he Scott fecking Carson is he now? There is always goals where maybe the GK could have done better but how are we blaming the GK when Shaw was at RB and AWB at LB leaving Nketiah to have a clear header?
Sure, AWB lost his man but nevertheless DDG should have claimed it.
Not sure what Scott fecking Carson has to do with it.
Despite some evident flaws, DDG once again this year has been one of our best players. Some on here are making him look like he is in some Hugo Lloris form slump or decline. DDG has been pretty solid for the entire season.
He's in our top eleven.
But just Barely.
Bit weird quoting managers that haven't managed De Gea for ten, seven and five years, especially given that in those five years his performances have clearly dropped off substantially, and then adding the most recent manager who by all accounts wanted to sign Yann Sommer in the summer before we overspent in other areas. We'll sign a goalkeeper this summer, I guarantee it.
You haven't even read what I wrote regarding Ramsdale so to go talking about his pass percentage to prove some kind of point pretty much sums up your level of understanding; which to be clear is absolutely clueless, keep enjoying his Youtube saves and ignoring the actual football game.
Disagree, he had some good games but cause of his evident flaws he let some of the goals in world class keeper really shouldn't. Even a very good one.
I think you arer missing the point here entirely.
He is a good keeper, was one of the best in the league. But he no longer suits the style that the team requires. He's basically become Ben Foster, a good goal line stopper but not a keeper for a team that wants to keep possession and play front foot football. Just like Maguire, Ronaldo etc and just like Keane, Beckham, RVN had to leave in the past. Sometimes players just don't suit the direction the team is going and he's one of them.
I've posted this many times in relation to DDG. Big Pete explains it nicely.
The other point when we argue that "De Gea has done okay this season" is that his performances have been within a tactical set-up where we go long a lot against good teams who try to press us high. Which ameliorates the impact of his mediocre distribution but also limits what we can do as a team.
If we want to develop past that to the point where we're actually able to play out from the back successfully against a high level press, he can't be the goalkeeper. It just isn't within his skillset.
If we want to develop past that to the point where we're actually able to play out from the back successfully against a high level press, he can't be the goalkeeper. It just isn't within his skillset.
I have no problem if we are serious of replacing DDG in the summer with a better younger GK that will suite the style ETH wants to play. Just pointing out the obvious bullshit of some that claim that they understand the football so much and overelaborate on DDG while pointing out GKs like Ramsdale. Or that finding a GK that will be good enough for Manchester United while also suiting a certain style is some walk in the part and will be done so easily.
I disagree, bar a few instances DDG has been pretty fine and adapting nicely to ETH way of playing.
ETH has actually made more allowances for DDG than he has improved. Defenders drop deeper to clear crosses, he doesn't play high enough that he's required to sweep a lot, he's not being given the ball by his defenders as often as he could. Part of that is that he doesn't actually look for it when he should.
A keeper with a more rounded skillset would be better for the team. Already seen that with Henderson, who is viewed as an average PL keeper, with him defensive performances improved by almost every metric. His detractors like to point out the Salah goal and that he played against worse teams during his run. But, overall when he played on average more clean sheets, less shots faced, less goals conceded and more wins.
It just proved that a decent keeper with a better all round skillset is better for the team than DDG standing on his line waiting for shots.
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Now correct me if am wrong but isn’t the basic principle of high line to have your duels further away from your goal and in less dangerous positions? We have been doing this successfully with Casemiro in the midfield and DDG on goal. Yes DDG is not coming enough for crosses and should improve but how is it his fault when for example we concede 23 crosses compared to having 10 against Arsenal? Where is the root of the problem? The goalie or the basic lack of control in midfield? What would have Neuer done differently when you get overrun on the wings and in the midfield area? Passed them out of the park with short square passes to Martinez and Shaw?
I would very much like a new GK but not David fecking Raya or some other sub par GK like Henderson. People are getting carried away thinking that a world class GK in the mould of Neuer or Allison is waiting on the corner block and that is the quality needed. Until we find that kind of talent I’d rather have DDG at goal than some Kepa like clown.
out of interest which side has two keepers ahead of him on crosses stopped?
21st on crosses stopped so someone’s second choice goalkeeper is better than DDG at that.
That’s the problem, the side wouldn’t concede so many chances or panic when they’re hanging on to a lead if they had a proactive goalkeeper. A goalkeeper that pushes the defence up even 5 yards would give a lot more steel for the defence.
But no, we have DDG who plays the floor is lava with the goal line
so someone’s second choice goalkeeper is better than DDG at that.That’s the problem, the side wouldn’t concede so many chances or panic when they’re hanging on to a lead if they had a proactive goalkeeper. A goalkeeper that pushes the defence up even 5 yards would give a lot more steel for the defence.
But no, we have DDG who plays the floor is lava with the goal line
In the interests of fairness it's % of crosses into the box dealt with by the goalkeeper; Chelsea are the club with both goalkeepers ahead of him. Only Bournemouth's reserve goalkeeper is behind him in the list (2.4%). The list only includes goalkeepers to have played more than 3 games.
That said, it doesn't get any better if you look at the raw numbers either, of those 22 goalkeepers, only the Bournemouth reserve, Mark Travers, has dealt with less crosses than him; 5 in 10 games. De Gea has dealt with 8 crosses in 20 games; there are four other goalkeepers that have dealt with 8 crosses.
However while De Gea has faced 305 crosses to deal with his 8, the other four have faced 290 (Pickford), 215 (Alisson), 167 (Kepa) and 117 (Mendy).
The overall affect that De Gea has on the team is very similar to the affect that Ronaldo had on the team. World class in parts but so one dimensional and selfish that they drag the team around them down.
Even replacing De Gea with a average PL GK who reasonably proactive and capable with the ball at his feet would have a very positive affect on the overall teams performance. Much like the way even a half fit Martial has helped to improve the attacking output of the team in place of Ronaldo without necceserialy doing anything particularly outstanding.
Just an average GK doing the basics will improve the defence. There may be the odd occasion where you will go De Gea might of saved that, but on the whole we will be conceding less chance and having better control in games.
Christ, that is bad for a side that has ambitions of wanting to the best in this league.
What other goalkeepers out there can we realistically get in the summer to challenge De Gea?
De Gea’s passing isn’t good enough and his ability to claim crosses is non-existent. We’d concede far fewer corners/shots if he were better at those things because we’d retain posession.
However, I think a lot of people are drastically underestimating how difficult it is to be a Manchester United goalkeeper. We had massive problems replacing Schmeichel and it took De Gea a few years to find his feet when replacing van der sar. Dealing with the endless critique online, in the media and the pressure of playing in front of 75,000 every week aren’t things that are easy to scout for. Whoever we bring in next will be a risk no matter their price tag and if we just let de Gea go, we have no fall back option if things don’t work out initially.
De Gea has been a good servant to the club and has carried us through some really poor periods in the last decade. Yes the modern game has started to pass him by but he still has something to offer and deserves a bit of loyalty in return. I think the club is doing the right thing by extending de Geas contract. If he takes a 50% pay cut we could bring in a top young goalkeeper and pay them both less than he was on before whilst still making the new GK one of the best paid in the world. The new guy gets to settle and we are safe in the knowledge that if things don’t go well we can revert to de Gea for a few games. There’s absolutely no harm in having a battle for the number 1 shirt next season and then having de Gea on the bench on 200k or less for the next two. Lets not forget we had De Gea, Henderson and Romero at one point so its not like we’ll be breaking the bank.
However, I think a lot of people are drastically underestimating how difficult it is to be a Manchester United goalkeeper. We had massive problems replacing Schmeichel and it took De Gea a few years to find his feet when replacing van der sar. Dealing with the endless critique online, in the media and the pressure of playing in front of 75,000 every week aren’t things that are easy to scout for. Whoever we bring in next will be a risk no matter their price tag and if we just let de Gea go, we have no fall back option if things don’t work out initially.
De Gea has been a good servant to the club and has carried us through some really poor periods in the last decade. Yes the modern game has started to pass him by but he still has something to offer and deserves a bit of loyalty in return. I think the club is doing the right thing by extending de Geas contract. If he takes a 50% pay cut we could bring in a top young goalkeeper and pay them both less than he was on before whilst still making the new GK one of the best paid in the world. The new guy gets to settle and we are safe in the knowledge that if things don’t go well we can revert to de Gea for a few games. There’s absolutely no harm in having a battle for the number 1 shirt next season and then having de Gea on the bench on 200k or less for the next two. Lets not forget we had De Gea, Henderson and Romero at one point so its not like we’ll be breaking the bank.
Damning. He invites so much pressure on the defense in and around the box and offers little to nowt in terms of distribution.
I disagree. Ronaldo nowadays is past it winger turned to striker, who couldn't even put away sitters.
That's proper delusion right here, thinking and average Joe from the Premier League will come at Manchester United and perform like it's a walk in the park. And I am not sure what half fit Martial has brought into the team. A half fit Martial was hooked at half time against City after being even worse than Antony, try a different point next time.
And to point out just the obvious, DDG is still facing much more shots compared to the GKs of Arsenal and City. Or in number Ederson has had 49 shots against while DDG has had 78. Are you going to tell me this is all because he does not claim enough high balls or sweeps enough?
The player who affects your highline the most is your keeper. DDG sucks the defence deeper because he is unwilling to sweep and doesn't command his area. If he pushes the defence 5/10/15 yards higher then the opposition doesn't get close enough to the goal to get crosses in or get as many shots on goal. A keeper can prevent chances from being created by simply talking, organising and commanding his area.
Having a keeper who forces the defence away from the goal and is commanding of his area makes a massive difference. This was Schmeichel's way of playing. This is exactly what Allison has done for Liverpool. What Klopp did was identify the keeper that suited his style and went and got him.
That's what ETH needs to do.
You are right, the GK does affect the high line, but so does a capable defense and most of all a functioning midfield who actually controls tempo and the majority of the ball. Against City and Arsenal we were not pinned in our box because of DDG and him not sweeping or commanding the area, we were overrun and outplayed by teams with much better midfield and attack. How was DDG going to affect the game with sweeping and commanding the area when your opposition has 70% possession like we did against City? Or like against Arsenal when your midfield had a pass comp. of 74%.
I perfectly realize that a GK can prevent goals with cross collecting, more authority and organizing, but it's hardly our biggest problem. DDG is not fecking Schmeichel, but who exactly is? And no a regular Joe from the PL will not cut it here. Find me an Allison or Schmeichel like talent I am all about replacing DDG.
Klopp nearly won the CL with Karius at goal, he was having Liverpool play aggressive football with loads of goals and destroying teams by attacking prowess we are light years behind. Bar 2 total howlers by Karius, Klopp would have made him a CL winner. DDG is hardly Karius is he.
You do know using the example of Karius is proving peoples point about an average goalkeeper being a better fit for a team than a goalkeeper not suited to the players in front of him? Karius wasn’t good but he enabled Liverpool to play the high like Klopp wanted to because he started high, swept behind the defenders and looked to deal with crosses into the box.I have seen a dozen of your messages here but I can hardly see you back up your defence of De Gea with any stats (which you think are trash) or any proper arguments apart from the rhetorical that "how can you be sure that an "average PL GK" like Raya/Sa & co. will do better than De Gea?", which no one can firmly answer since no one has a crystal ball to predict the future, but that "fear of unknown" mentality is the reason why Man Utd has been reluctant to make necessary changes in recent years and fallen behind so much.
Dean Henderson is a very average goalkeeper at PL's standard but we conceded less goals per game with him in the goal in 20-21 (12 goals conceded in 13 games) than when we had De Gea in the same season (32 goals conceded in 26 games). Noting you may say Henderson faced lesser opponents, may I reply with the fact that the average end-of-season league position of opponents faced by Henderson was 10.62 and that faced by De Gea was 11.34 in 20-21.
Sergio Romero has never been considered an elite goalkeeper, but during his time for Man Utd, Romero conceded just 9 goals in his 23 appearances for Man Utd in the Europa League.
You may reply "of course, you face random John Doe teams in Europa League!"
Unfortunately, De Gea has conceded 25 goals in his 22 appearances for Man Utd in the Europa League.
It is the real delusion if one thinks that an "average PL GK" is incapable of withstanding the weight of the shirt of United when we have 2 real life examples that it isn't really the case. To the contrary, De Gea is kinda bad at withstanding pressure and most of his blunders are in big games or big tournaments like World Cup, Champions League knock out, Europa League final or FA Cup Semi-final. De Gea has been a great servant for us and he kept bailing us out in the sour period of 2014-2018, but let's call a spade a spade, De Gea has now regressed to be just another "random average" PL GK and we should replace him, right in this summer, if we are anything close to a serious club.
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Dubravka was average and it was a disaster.
Henderson I just dont want at the club. He is a toxic cnut like Ronaldo and should never play for us again.
Could we upgrade De Gea? Absolutely. But it needs to be the right player.
Diogo Costa looked good until we saw him on the big stage at the world cup where he crumbled like a freshly baked cookie.
Raya and Sanchez are both premier league proven and I expect both would be a upgrade. Sanchez even more so given some of the fantastic saves he has made this season. He seems to have some of Dave's ability to save "unsavable" shots, while at the same time being better at pretty much every other aspect. He would be my personal favourite if we go for a premier league proven keeper.
Young talent I had hoped we would be in for a Vandevoordt but alas Red Bull already have their claws in him, and he is also unproved on the big stage.
perhaps Dubravka is not an "average level PL goalkeeper" that Kostov (or other members here) are referring to? It is more like the 8th to 12th best goalkeeper in PL, which De Gea himself may be at that level. Dubravka hardly makes top 20 GKs in PL.
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