[CoopersDream]

Which if we are being honest is fine is the team is setup to deal with the situation like that. In the dying minutes of games where you are winning 1-0, playing it safe, keeping the ball and running down the clock is the ideal, but not always possible. Long aimless punts that lose the ball just invites more pressure.

We'd all be mad if a player ran up the line and crossed the ball and it came straight back down the other end for a goal.
That forward is not 100% at fault for the goal, but with a bit of cleverness and composure it's avoidable. He could have played for the corner or turned and played back. I see this as no different.

If you look at that clip, Martinez drops out to look for the pass and it should have been played to him, he wasn't under that much pressure. It wasn't and a long needless and aimless hoof down the middle of the field came straight back and cost a goal. He's not 100% at fault for it, but its a situation that is avoidable by him being more composed and playing the easy pass that was on to keep the ball.

Again, I cannot suscribe to the idea that hoofing the ball in 90th minute, even when there is a pass to be made, is anything uncommon for goalkeepers. I've seen that countless of times from certain ball playing keepers.

But yeah, let's just agree to disagree about this. I think the team should be able to defend a ball in the other half when the entire team is behind the ball. The way the outfield players acted in this instance is far more of a concern to me than De Gea hoofing it long.

 

[JeffFromHK]

how would you rank De Gea among 20 PL starting goalkeepers?? Why you give him such a rank?

 

[Dan_F]

Ah right, so De Gea now gets the blame for us conceding in the last minute from a pointless 30 yard free kick into the top corner. We’ve defended several tight leads this season and won lots of games by a one goal margin. You can’t do that every time, it will catch up with you and I was actually thinking at about 80 minutes ‘when was the last time we conceded in the last minute’.

 

[sullydnl]

how would you rank De Gea among 20 PL starting goalkeepers?? Why you give him such a rank?

Tough as some goalkeepers benefit from being in a team whose style of play suits them more even if I don't rate them that highly in general, plus form can vary quite a bit season to season.

I guess if we kept him for two more years I'd probably expect him to average out as being somewhere in the 6th-11th range, performing as an average to above average PL goalkeeper.

 

[Longshanks]

Again, I cannot suscribe to the idea that hoofing the ball in 90th minute, even when there is a pass to be made, is anything uncommon for goalkeepers. I've seen that countless of times from certain ball playing keepers.

But yeah, let's just agree to disagree about this. I think the team should be able to defend a ball in the other half when the entire team is behind the ball. The way the outfield players acted in this instance is far more of a concern to me than De Gea hoofing it long.

I don't think the issue is necceserialy that he chooses to hoof it, it was understandable going into the 90th minute for a player who isn't that confident with the ball at his feet.

The far more concerning issue is the quality of the hoof, it's rubbish, high ,floaty and not very far. That hoof needs to go into the corners for if we're gonna concede safe possession at least concede it as far as possible away from our own goal.

It is one of our Dave's biggest flaws (among many) his long kicks are rubbish and always have been.

A keeper who is good with his feet there launches down the channels towards the corners or plays the pass to Martinez. What he did with it was absolute tosh at this level and one of the many reasons why he needs replacing.

 

[RopersReturn]

I thought he did very well against Palace the other night, nobody could have stopped that rocket of a free kick.

 

[Kostov]

It was a good save in the first half but the freekick we conceded which was ultimately costly, came about because De Gea decided to hoof it long and from the resulting possession loss, Crystal Palace advanced forward and won the freekick. There was a simple pass on but he decided to kick it long.

He's just not a keeper for a coach who wants to implement positional play and dominate the first phase of the build up.

Look at fecking Fred in that instance of play, Rashford not even contesting the aerial ball and somehow you get all the way back to DDG?

 

[Dan_F]

Look at fecking Fred in that instance of play, Rashford not even contesting the aerial ball and somehow you get all the way back to DDG?

One uncontested header, two missed headers, a lost 50/50, then a needless foul 25 yards out. De Gea’s fault though.

 

[Kostov]

One uncontested header, two missed headers, a lost 50/50, then a needless foul 25 yards out. De Gea’s fault though.

Pathetic.

 

[Oranges038]

Again, I cannot suscribe to the idea that hoofing the ball in 90th minute, even when there is a pass to be made, is anything uncommon for goalkeepers. I've seen that countless of times from certain ball playing keepers.

But yeah, let's just agree to disagree about this. I think the team should be able to defend a ball in the other half when the entire team is behind the ball. The way the outfield players acted in this instance is far more of a concern to me than De Gea hoofing it long.

Why? When the easy pass was on? He kicks it right to the opponent when nobody was epxecting him to do it. They weren't set up for it, they set up for him to play Martinez and keep the ball.

A more competent keeper with his feet plays that out to the side, I saw Kelleher vs Wolves control and pass one in his 6 under a lot more pressure the other night, it makes a huge difference. Lots of PL keepers are capable of it except DDG and it kills the whole teams ability to control possession.

If Bruno went for one of his killer balls when the easy pass was on and it went back down the other team scored. It would come back to that pass.

You can go back from any goal to pinpoint a mistake, this one comes back to his decision to give the ball away in the last minute when he had a better option. Yeah, it's a great strike and the wall was too far away and it was 5 or 6 yards closer than it should have been. But it was an avoidable situation.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't think the issue is necceserialy that he chooses to hoof it, it was understandable going into the 90th minute for a player who isn't that confident with the ball at his feet.

The far more concerning issue is the quality of the hoof, it's rubbish, high ,floaty and not very far. That hoof needs to go into the corners for if we're gonna concede safe possession at least concede it as far as possible away from our own goal.

It is one of our Dave's biggest flaws (among many) his long kicks are rubbish and always have been.

A keeper who is good with his feet there launches down the channels towards the corners or plays the pass to Martinez. What he did with it was absolute tosh at this level and one of the many reasons why he needs replacing.

City’s 4th goal last night a good example of what can be achieved with a keeper who can actually pass the ball over a long distance. Allison is excellent at that too.

Having said that, De Gea shouldn’t be blamed for dropped points in the Palace game. With most keepers in the league we’d have conceded long before injury time.

 

[arnie_ni]

City’s 4th goal last night a good example of what can be achieved with a keeper who can actually pass the ball over a long distance. Allison is excellent at that too.

Having said that, De Gea shouldn’t be blamed for dropped points in the Palace game. With most keepers in the league we’d have conceded long before injury time.

The ball that went straight to the spurs player who mis controlled it?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The ball that went straight to the spurs player who mis controlled it?

Yes. That one. Note where the Spurs player was standing when he miscontrolled it.

 

[Jund]

As mostly a lurker, who reads through this forum a lot...I swear, some people just have an agenda against DDG.

 

[Adnan]

Look at fecking Fred in that instance of play, Rashford not even contesting the aerial ball and somehow you get all the way back to DDG?

I went straight to the fire starter and not the players who were then expected to put the fire out.

Because this is a player performance thread and we're discussing De Gea's performance in the game.

 

[Kostov]

I went straight to the fire starter and not the players who were then expected to put the fire out.

Because this is a player performance thread and we're discussing De Gea's performance in the game.

How can you judge DDG’s kick without condemning that Rashford didn’t even bother to contest the header?

 

[Desert Eagle]

How can you judge DDG’s kick without condemning that Rashford didn’t even bother to contest the header?

Maybe because he's in the De Gea performance thread

 

[Adnan]

How can you judge DDG’s kick without condemning that Rashford didn’t even bother to contest the header?

Because this is a player performance thread.

 

[USREDEVIL]

De Gea has been great when needed this year. Except for that one corner-leg debacle.

 

[criticalanalysis]

One uncontested header, two missed headers, a lost 50/50, then a needless foul 25 yards out. De Gea’s fault though.

They're all culpable. It's not rocket science.

 

[Kostov]

Because this is a player performance thread.

Yet nothing on the matter in the Fred thread from you and I highly doubt anyone even questioned why Rashford did not even contest the “hoof” which was followed by couple of total feck ups before the needless foul. It’s needless to say DDG is not Alison or Ederson on the ball but using the “costly” loss of possession to get back to DDG and his ball playing capabilities is overblowing a problem. And if anything missing the real problem of having an actual striker in place of Rashford who will contest duels with CBs and the appalling quality of our CM rotation.

 

[Kostov]

Maybe because he's in the De Gea performance thread

Ok Mr obvious, am I talking about Anders Lindegaard?

 

[Dan_F]

They're all culpable. It's not rocket science.

The difference is that no one is asking to replace the other players because of the mistake. Kicking long in 90th minute is in no way a worse mistake than not bothering to contest a header, or losing a 50/50.

 

[criticalanalysis]

The difference is that no one is asking to replace the other players because of the mistake. Kicking long in 90th minute is in no way a worse mistake than not bothering to contest a header, or losing a 50/50.

There have been plenty of calls from posters to replace Fred, Rashford and Shaw (who I thought after the high of having solid games as CB had an below par game as left back). It's not really based on one mistake but the underlying fundamentals and if you want to be harsh, it's fair criticism for all involved i.e to be replaced or have their performances scrutinised because they've all been at the club for long.

 

[Adnan]

Yet nothing on the matter in the Fred thread from you and I highly doubt anyone even questioned why Rashford did not even contest the “hoof” which was followed by couple of total feck ups before the needless foul. It’s needless to say DDG is not Alison or Ederson on the ball but using the “costly” loss of possession to get back to DDG and his ball playing capabilities is overblowing a problem. And if anything missing the real problem of having an actual striker in place of Rashford who will contest duels with CBs and the appalling quality of our CM rotation.

I don't see what relevance Fred has to what I'm discussing here. I've on many occasions pointed out the issues of Fred and McTominay in the past. And we've actually progressed from both players and have Casemiro and Eriksen occupying those roles now, which has improved us on the ball. But Fred can still potentially play a role for us, as a back up, because we don't really have anyone else.

Fred's mistake in that passage of play was that he lost a physical duel against a opponent who was noticeably bigger than him. Rashford refused to even make a attempt to even challenge for the ball which was pathetic to see, but it wasn't the first time he's done something like that this season.

But it all stemmed from De Gea making two mistakes. The first his refusal to pass to Lisandro Martinez and secondly his decision to kick the ball long into the middle of the pitch where Crystal Palace were always favourites to win the second ball against the likes of Rashford and Fred, who aren't the strongest players in physical duels. That then opens up the straight vertical pass for Crystal Palace into our central half spaces and Shaw ends up conceding a freekick. If you're going to kick it long, kick it towards the corners/side, because then the opponent has to either go long diagonally or has to attempt to recycle the ball and get into a position where the straight vertical pass is a option. But that also would've given United's outfield players the opportunity to press the ball player in a wide area.

The advantages of having a keeper who is capable on the ball is for all to see. And in this day and age where teams are looking to defend from the front with the pressing/counter pressing method, it's even more important to have a keeper who is well rounded and has the ability to help the team progress play. Because the opponent can go man to man on each player but you've still got the free man in the defensive third who is the goalkeeper. And if your goalkeeper can take advantage in the first phase of the build up, then the opponent's high pressure game will come a cropper.

We have a head coach and it's not a secret how he wants to play. And it's about backing his ideas.

 

[calodo2003]

A little nostalgia to put a smile on our faces…

 

[Kostov]

I don't see what relevance Fred has to what I'm discussing here. I've on many occasions pointed out the issues of Fred and McTominay in the past. And we've actually progressed from both players and have Casemiro and Eriksen occupying those roles now, which has improved us on the ball. But Fred can still potentially play a role for us, as a back up, because we don't really have anyone else.

When you overlook 2-3 very basic mistakes from players in the same instance to get back to DDG who kicked a long ball, which was not even bad to begin with, it has relevance to the point being made. And I am pretty sure you are one of the first to always point out how Fred can play a role here, well here it is he played role in this instance and it was very costly, yet you don't go in Fred's tweet to overanalyze it.

Fred's mistake in that passage of play was that he lost a physical duel against a opponent who was noticeably bigger than him. Rashford refused to even make a attempt to even challenge for the ball which was pathetic to see, but it wasn't the first time he's done something like that this season.

Noticeably bigger is 9cm taller than him, and it's Schlupp a guy who is not even a CM and very average player. It's funny how you find an easy excuse for Fred who also constantly does this. Rashford with his current form and impact I can understand why we all forgive him for that, but probably cost us this game the most.

But it all stemmed from De Gea making two mistakes. The first his refusal to pass to Lisandro Martinez and secondly his decision to kick the ball long into the middle of the pitch where Crystal Palace were always favourites to win the second ball against the likes of Rashford and Fred, who aren't the strongest players in physical duels. That then opens up the straight vertical pass for Crystal Palace into our central half spaces and Shaw ends up conceding a freekick. If you're going to kick it long, kick it towards the corners/side, because then the opponent has to either go long diagonally or has to attempt to recycle the ball and get into a position where the straight vertical pass is a option. But that also would've given United's outfield players the opportunity to press the ball player in a wide area.

It all stemmed from our inability to kill the game off, and it was always coming. We've scrapped through games the whole season and we were lucky and saved by DDG's wonder save in the first half to not be a goal down. DDG has been pretty good with his ball playing this whole season, and done that pass you crave to Lisandro or Varane plenty of times. In this instance he chose the long option because he probably felt was the best idea and he kicked it long and hard. And he did it OK, kept the ball in play in the middle, not kicking it out of reach and straight back to Palace. His teammates made a mess. I've seen Alison and Ederson do the same, no need to overanalyze and use the moment to have a dig at DDG.

The advantages of having a keeper who is capable on the ball is for all to see. And in this day and age where teams are looking to defend from the front with the pressing/counter pressing method, it's even more important to have a keeper who is well rounded and has the ability to help the team progress play. Because the opponent can go man to man on each player but you've still got the free man in the defensive third who is the goalkeeper. And if your goalkeeper can take advantage in the first phase of the build up, then the opponent's high pressure game will come a cropper.

We have a head coach and it's not a secret how he wants to play. And it's about backing his ideas.

This keepers you describe who are they? Will they make our 8 wins with 1 goal margin 3:0 games? Will they help us score 15 more goals while also provide the wonder saves that DDG brings? I also understand that there are some better GKs on the ball than DDG. But it's long before a GK should be our priority, DDG is still one of our best players.

 

[Longshanks]

City’s 4th goal last night a good example of what can be achieved with a keeper who can actually pass the ball over a long distance. Allison is excellent at that too.

Having said that, De Gea shouldn’t be blamed for dropped points in the Palace game. With most keepers in the league we’d have conceded long before injury time.

I don't blame De Gea for the dropped points, we should of killed the game of long before that but we let it drift in the 2nd half and were punished the whole team is at fault for that not just one player.

Your second paragraph is kind of a Paradox, if we had conceded long before injury time we probably would of gone on to score again. Having more than 2 minutes to go and score another goal would of been quite useful in hindsight. Although it is very much Whataboutism.

Yet nothing on the matter in the Fred thread from you and I highly doubt anyone even questioned why Rashford did not even contest the “hoof” which was followed by couple of total feck ups before the needless foul. It’s needless to say DDG is not Alison or Ederson on the ball but using the “costly” loss of possession to get back to DDG and his ball playing capabilities is overblowing a problem. And if anything missing the real problem of having an actual striker in place of Rashford who will contest duels with CBs and the appalling quality of our CM rotation.

It dosent matter who you put upfront or in midfield, having a GK like De Gea means we will lose control and end up having to contest more aerial duels and 50/50's in the middle of the park than what we should or need to. That means your going lose more of those duels and 50/50's in the middle of the park which means you going to end up facing more opposition attacks and pressure which will lead to more chances for the opposition less chances for us.

His inability to play out from the back under pressure and his pitiful long distribution have a massive impact on the teams overall play and ability to control football matches.

The example is there for all to see when Dean Henderson had a run of games in 20/21. A GK who isn't necessarily any better with short distribution (but more confident and more willing to do it) but is alot better with long distribution had a very positive impact on the teams overall performance.

 

[arthurka]

DDG never hoofs long it's always high and stops dead little short of the midfield of the pitch. He isn't a good kicker and will never be. Blaming him for the goal is a bit far fetched.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

His distribution and general composure with the ball at his feet is definitely a problem. Overall, though, this has been better this season. Plus he’s only had one really poor performance (Everton) I’ve always thought he could be upgraded but I do worry that this might not be as easy as we think. Dubravka’s performance certainly rocked my confidence a bit. Likewise when Henderson had his chance. For all his flaws, there’s probably a relatively small number of keepers out there who are better than DDG and I’m not sure I trust our recruitment team to sign one.

 

[Desert Eagle]

His distribution and general composure with the ball at his feet is definitely a problem. Overall, though, this has been better this season. Plus he’s only had one really poor performance (Everton) I’ve always thought he could be upgraded but I do worry that this might not be as easy as we think. Dubravka’s performance certainly rocked my confidence a bit. Likewise when Henderson had his chance. For all his flaws, there’s probably a relatively small number of keepers out there who are better than DDG and I’m not sure I trust our recruitment team to sign one.

Brentford was worse than Everton.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Brentford was worse than Everton.

Oh shit, yeah. Two really bad games.

 

[VeevaVee]

It was a good save in the first half but the freekick we conceded which was ultimately costly, came about because De Gea decided to hoof it long and from the resulting possession loss, Crystal Palace advanced forward and won the freekick. There was a simple pass on but he decided to kick it long.

He's just not a keeper for a coach who wants to implement positional play and dominate the first phase of the build up.

Those simple passes would’ve invited immediate pressure anyway. They had nowhere to go with it, which is why it was passed back to him in the first place.

 

[Dorris]

Those simple passes would’ve invited immediate pressure anyway. They had nowhere to go with it, which is why it was passed back to him in the first place.

This is the mentality that’ll stop us against the top teams. You think Ederson or Ramsdale go long there? This will be the sort of thing ETH privately fumes over.

 

[Kostov]

It dosent matter who you put upfront or in midfield, having a GK like De Gea means we will lose control and end up having to contest more aerial duels and 50/50's in the middle of the park than what we should or need to. That means your going lose more of those duels and 50/50's in the middle of the park which means you going to end up facing more opposition attacks and pressure which will lead to more chances for the opposition less chances for us.

His inability to play out from the back under pressure and his pitiful long distribution have a massive impact on the teams overall play and ability to control football matches.

The example is there for all to see when Dean Henderson had a run of games in 20/21. A GK who isn't necessarily any better with short distribution (but more confident and more willing to do it) but is alot better with long distribution had a very positive impact on the teams overall performance.

That's one big load of nonsense. You can put Ederson and Neuer combined regen GK on the ball if you put a crap CM like Fred and no natural striker in the team you will have little control of the game. You all love to blubber about tiki taka, play out from the back, GK involved, yeah we've all seen City, Bayern, Barcelona play some beautiful football, however I am yet to see them do it with crap technical footballers in the middle of the team.

 

[MadDogg]

Wtf is Rashford doing there? It is 90th minute and he decides the best thing is to fully give up on challenging the ball and watch.

The same thing Rashford does literally every time in that position. He never makes an attempt whatsoever to win those balls, or if he does it's a half-arse jump a couple of metres from where the ball actually goes. Basically a worse version of what Lukaku always did.

It's why Rashford should ever be anything more than an emergency option in the striker position. He doesn't come close to winning those launched balls, and even when it comes to balls on the ground he simply has no hold-up play...all he does is just attempt to run in behind the defence over and over and over and over again. Every now and then it'll work, but it's basically impossible to actually build any kind of progressive play as all we can do is try those balls in behind. Even those runs tend to be much more dangerous when he's playing on the left, which is why he normally scores a lot more from the wing than he does when he's playing up top.

 

[Kostov]

This is the mentality that’ll stop us against the top teams. You think Ederson or Ramsdale go long there? This will be the sort of thing ETH privately fumes over.

Ederson had 77% pass success against Spurs and Ramsdale had 32% pass success over the weekend. You are telling us that Ederson and Ramsdale never kick long balls? DDG had 83% against Palace. What in the name of Budha are you talking about?

 

[Kostov]

His distribution and general composure with the ball at his feet is definitely a problem. Overall, though, this has been better this season. Plus he’s only had one really poor performance (Everton) I’ve always thought he could be upgraded but I do worry that this might not be as easy as we think. Dubravka’s performance certainly rocked my confidence a bit. Likewise when Henderson had his chance. For all his flaws, there’s probably a relatively small number of keepers out there who are better than DDG and I’m not sure I trust our recruitment team to sign one.

Spot on. My point exactly, not as easy to upgrade on DDG as some on here are making out, considering that we still rely on him to pull a wonder save here and there.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The same thing Rashford does literally every time in that position. He never makes an attempt whatsoever to win those balls, or if he does it's a half-arse jump a couple of metres from where the ball actually goes. Basically a worse version of what Lukaku always did.

It's why Rashford should ever be anything more than an emergency option in the striker position. He doesn't come close to winning those launched balls, and even when it comes to balls on the ground he simply has no hold-up play...all he does is just attempt to run in behind the defence over and over and over and over again. Every now and then it'll work, but it's basically impossible to actually build any kind of progressive play as all we can do is try those balls in behind. Even those runs tend to be much more dangerous when he's playing on the left, which is why he normally scores a lot more from the wing than he does when he's playing up top.

Off-topic but there’s been games this season where he has been competing for, and winning, headers in those situations. He’s a big, strong, tall lad who has shown he’s capable of it. In those games it’s like he’s suddenly got a fire in his belly. It stands out because it’s such a rarity. Feck knows why he can’t or won’t do that in every match. Or even a few minutes at the end of a tough away game where we’re desperately clinging to a one nil lead.

He’s a strange fish…

 

[VeevaVee]

This is the mentality that’ll stop us against the top teams. You think Ederson or Ramsdale go long there? This will be the sort of thing ETH privately fumes over.

It was passed back to him because they had nowhere to go. Why would he then pass it back to a defender that is now on the backfoot with attackers bearing down on them even more?