[stw2022]

How many keepers comparable to the style of a Schmeichel are around today? It doesn't seem to be many. It's not because they're not out there but because what people were looking for in the 80s was different to the 90s, which was different to the 00s, etc etc

Neither Schmeichel nor De Gea necessarily have the attributes that seem to be valued by managers today. Schmeichel would have struggled with being asked to play out from the back with his feet, possibly more than De Gea has. Its never been a skill I've ever associated with him. Pretending that Schmeichel had all the attributes we see required at keepers at top clubs in 2023 is simply a lie. Evidenced in part in the fact a keeper like him really doesn't exist any more. This fact doesn't take not one iota away from how great a keeper he was.

 

[Remember the geese]

I don't see force of personality being particularly high on the agenda. There's no denying Schmeichel is a legend but pretending the game hasn't moved on from that style of keeper is ridiculous. There are far more keepers like De Gea in the game as the suited the way teams played for much of the last 15 years. Now it's moved on again.

Pretending the game doesn't move on because we like to think our childhood heroes would with just as well in 2023 as they did 1993 just because you're a bit annoyed someone said they like one player more than the other, doesn't work.

Personality is huge in football. Another word for it is 'character'. De Gea is passive. You would never see Schmeichel fear physical contact when coming for a cross or racing off his line to beat a striker to a loose ball.

Talking about the game moving on is all well and good. However, De Gea doesn't struggle solely due to being out of touch with the 'modern game'. The reason he struggles is because he has always been weak in the fundamentals and his one strength no long compensates for it, as it deserted him 5 years ago.

 

[gajender]

Why didn't you answer any of the questions in his post? You made a laughable and trollish claim of De Gea being our greatest keeper. Even if Schmeichel isn't suited to this era which isn't true anyway, he's still a far greater keeper than De Gea.

Put it this way Peak Schmeichel would be far more suited to current Era than De Gea has ever been that's even before we actually go into the goalkeeping attributes where Great Dane wipes the floor with De Gea on almost every category barring Shot Stopping even there he is on par with peak De Gea .

 

[Remember the geese]

On another day he saves it.

It's not about another day. That day was yesterday. Excuses. Always excuses.

 

[Oranges038]

Personality is huge in football. Another word for it is 'character'. De Gea is passive. You would never see Schmeichel fear physical contact when coming for a cross or racing off his line to beat a striker to a loose ball.

Talking about the game moving on is all well and good. However, De Gea doesn't struggle solely due to being out of touch with the 'modern game'. The reason he struggles is because he has always been weak in the fundamentals and his one strength no long compensates for it, as it deserted him 5 years ago.

This is the key part that's lost on most people.

There was someone on here a while who tried to claim not coming for crosses was better than coming for them in case you missed it, leaving an open goal.

Put it this way Peak Schmeichel would be far more suited to current Era than De Gea has ever been that's even before we actually go into the goalkeeping attributes where Great Dane wipes the floor with De Gea on almost every category barring Shot Stopping even there he is on par with peak De Gea .

A much better shot stopper too, he rarely ever put the ball back into the danger zone, which is something DDG does way too often.

 

[gajender]

This is the key part that's lost on most people.

There was someone on here a while who tried to claim not coming for crosses was better than coming for them in case you missed it, leaving an open goal.



A much better shot stopper too, he rarely ever put the ball back into the danger zone, which is something DDG does way too often.

When you mention this I can recall it happens quite often with De Gea in the goal but also with our defenders who also seem to struggle to Direct their headers better and ball more often than not ends up in danger zone .

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Gea had a poor game but criticism is over the top.

First goal: you lot want DeGea to dive for an unsaveable volley. Get a grip.

Second goal: he could have saved it, but it is not an easy one. It goes through the legs of someone, he expects it to get blocked, it bobbles and bends away towards the far post. On another day he saves it.

To call that second goal a big mistake is harsh. Bigger mistakes were made by the defense. Both goals were flukes.

Distribution: switch Ortega and DeGea and the numbers look much the same. You cannot compare the performance of both when they are playing with different players and different tactics.

Can we use an upgrade on DeGea? Yes, but the hate here is mental. Will it fix all our problems with playing out the back? No sirs.

There’s very little ‘hate’ in here. Just some posters can’t see the wood for the trees. He’s an absolute liability these days and I struggle to believe there are still people willing to defend him. Also “on another day he saves the second” this was the biggest game of our season against one of our biggest rivals and yet again he’s dropped a howler. If he’s going to be as bad as he is at all other facets of the game, the one thing he simply has to do is be out of this world at saves. That’s how he used to be, but now he’s just a big standard keeper who lacks anything like the attributes we need.

 

[iammemphis]

Nowhere near good enough. He's about as useful as a wet carrot.

 

[stw2022]

Absolutely nobody has defend him. Indeed the whole premise of my post, that's evidently been so triggering, is the acknowledgement the game as moved on and he's no longer fit for purpose.

 

[Licha M]

Just in case anyone wants to look at this again. He's not been good enough for a while now and he has always been piss poor at collecting crosses or coming off his line. He along with Martial should be really leaving in the summer. Their time has come to an end sadly.

Leipzig away at the end of 2020 was it for me, and it's shown in the video at 1:55.

An absolute cowardice performance in that match. I love Erik, and of course a striker is a priority, but if he's willing to die on the De Gea hill by not bringing in someone that can legitimately challenge him (shouldn't be all that difficult) then it'll cost him, he'll get given the bullet and he'll deserve it for not taking action.

With that being said, it's reassuring and refreshing to hear ETH talk about the goalkeeping position being an area we need to improve on. However this complete wet wipe has outlasted and seen off 4 permanent managers during the most chaotic time at the club in recent memory.

We couldn't have been handed a better situation. His contract is up in a months time. Why would we tie ourselves to this dinosaur of a goalkeeper any longer? Use it as a get out of jail free card. Let him go and start raising the standards of what's expected of a Manchester United player. I don't think there's a single club in the top 10 of the Premier League that would swap keepers with us, he's an embarrassment.

 

[CM]

Gea had a poor game but criticism is over the top.

First goal: you lot want DeGea to dive for an unsaveable volley. Get a grip.

Second goal: he could have saved it, but it is not an easy one. It goes through the legs of someone, he expects it to get blocked, it bobbles and bends away towards the far post. On another day he saves it.

To call that second goal a big mistake is harsh. Bigger mistakes were made by the defense. Both goals were flukes.

Distribution: switch Ortega and DeGea and the numbers look much the same. You cannot compare the performance of both when they are playing with different players and different tactics.

Can we use an upgrade on DeGea? Yes, but the hate here is mental. Will it fix all our problems with playing out the back? No sirs.

Did you actually watch the game? De Gea spent the majority of the 90 minutes punting the ball back to City or into touch. His distribution is shockingly bad and we've been exposed several times in big games this season as a result.

The second goal is saved by most goalkeepers at this level. It definitely isn't a fluke, De Gea let in that pea roller at West Ham too. He's made a habit of making big mistakes, with his shot stopping and his distribution. I'm sure he'll be great for Elche or a club of equivalent standing, but not for Man Utd.

 

[Pat Cat]

Gea had a poor game but criticism is over the top.

First goal: you lot want DeGea to dive for an unsaveable volley. Get a grip.

Second goal: he could have saved it, but it is not an easy one. It goes through the legs of someone, he expects it to get blocked, it bobbles and bends away towards the far post. On another day he saves it.

To call that second goal a big mistake is harsh. Bigger mistakes were made by the defense. Both goals were flukes.

Distribution: switch Ortega and DeGea and the numbers look much the same. You cannot compare the performance of both when they are playing with different players and different tactics.

Can we use an upgrade on DeGea? Yes, but the hate here is mental. Will it fix all our problems with playing out the back? No sirs.

You really don't have a clue do you mate? Not one single scooby dooby doo, what a sorry sight you are

 

[Idxomer]

Mendes should find him a club in Saudi Arabia because that's the only league where he will get wages comparable to his current contract. It's not like he needs to play in Europe to keep his place in the Spanish squad.

 

[Remember the geese]

Indeed the whole premise of my post, that's evidently been so triggering, is the acknowledgement the game as moved on and he's no longer fit for purpose.

It's because hiding behind "the game has moved on", just let's him off the hook. The reason he "isn't fit for purpose" is because his one previous strength doesn't compensate for his many, many, weaknesses. It isn't just down to distribution and it isn't a new problem with him, but some like yourself are only just waking up to it.

 

[stw2022]

The game HAS moved on. Now, for both. Pretending it hasn't because you've got some angry divorced Dad energy not liking that someone rates two things in a different order than you do, doesn't change that.

Guardiola wouldn't have 1994 Schmeichel as first choice in his 2023 City side. He wouldn't have De Gea either.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

I respect him for the service he's given to the club but yeah time to go. I genuinely don't want to see him start a game for us ever again..

 

[Remember the geese]

The game HAS moved on. Now, for both. Pretending it hasn't because you've got some angry divorced Dad energy not liking that someone rates two things in a different order than you do, doesn't change that.

Guardiola wouldn't have 1994 Schmeichel as first choice in his 2023 City side. He wouldn't have De Gea either.

You're completely missing the point. You seem to think that the only reason De Gea isn't up to scratch is because he can't pass a football well enough. This is wrong.

 

[HTG]

Absolutely nobody has defend him. Indeed the whole premise of my post, that's evidently been so triggering, is the acknowledgement the game as moved on and he's no longer fit for purpose.

I disagree with that sentiment as well. The game might have moved on, but De Gea was also an issue ten years ago. Having no command over the box was an issue ten years ago. The inability to sweep and his inability to play even simple passes, too.
The issue is not that the game suddenly passed him. It’s that he was never fit for the modern game to begin with and instead of working on his weaknesses in order to adapt, he basically stagnated while the only ability he was ever world class in, his shot stopping, declined further and further.
To me it’s not a coincidence that De Gea happens to be the one big constant during your years of turmoil. The opposite is the case, really. De Gea has always been a symptom of the underlying issues holding your club back. And him not showing any improvement whatsoever in his weakest areas fits perfectly into the picture your club has been painting.
Ever since he arrived at your club he had significant weaknesses in areas that are key to success in the modern game. And he has done nothing to improve while your club has rewarded him for mediocrity and a complete lack of ambition and hunger to improve. And this last part, his lack of ambition and so on, that is the worst thing. Because your club not only allowed this, it was actively rewarded by making him the highest paid keeper in the league.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

How many keepers comparable to the style of a Schmeichel are around today? It doesn't seem to be many. It's not because they're not out there but because what people were looking for in the 80s was different to the 90s, which was different to the 00s, etc etc

Neither Schmeichel nor De Gea necessarily have the attributes that seem to be valued by managers today. Schmeichel would have struggled with being asked to play out from the back with his feet, possibly more than De Gea has. Its never been a skill I've ever associated with him. Pretending that Schmeichel had all the attributes we see required at keepers at top clubs in 2023 is simply a lie. Evidenced in part in the fact a keeper like him really doesn't exist any more. This fact doesn't take not one iota away from how great a keeper he was.

VDS could play out from the back no problem. Could also command the area and rarely made blunders. He did lack reflexes and was prone to long shots.

 

[SAFMUTD]

No news about him signing a new contract lately, I guess that's good news. I don't recall any player delaying so long so sign a contract.

I mean he's still under contract until January 30 but for practical reasons his contract has expired. I mean there's no more training nor games until preseason which is until July. So maybe we're finally getting rid? One can only hope

 

[Lentwood]

I recall an interview with Mark Bosnich of all people who made a point about DDGs goalkeeping that I thought was very interesting.

Bosnich argued that DDG has struggled because of his tendency to save low shots with his feet, and the way in which he collapses backwards to lead with his feet - which prevents him springing sideways to save with his hands.

We see with shots above waist height he is still fairly adequate and his reflexes are OK, but it seems to me that low shots that are away from his body are conceded at a disproportionately high rate because he isn't great at going low with his hands.

The 2nd goal yesterday and the goal conceded vs West Ham are good examples. He should definitely have been across quicker and reached the Gundogan shot, unsighted or not. The West Ham goal was just a technical error. Sure that can happen, but it's happening too often with DDG.

When we add in his passive defensive play, his weakness aerially, his poor distribution and his nervousness, you're left with a very poor goalkeeper overall

 

[Adnan]

Schmeichel was from a era that didn't place emphasis on playing out from the back. But if he was a up and coming keeper around the time De Gea started his career, then who's to say that he wouldn't have worked on improving his ability to be the plus 1 in possession? Schmeichel was a far superior goalkeeper and was proactive in his play. De Gea has been indulged too long and that made him believe he was better than he actually was. The clip below from Bastian Schweinsteiger perfectly sums De Gea up who thought he was better than he actually was. A goalkeeper cannot be world class if he's only good at saving shots.





And the positional play ideas are not modern but rather they've been around for a very long time. It's just that those ideas which were brought to the world stage by Rinus Michels in the 1970s have now become mainstream.

And a striker has to actually beat the opposing goalkeeper, consistently to score a goal to even have a chance of winning the golden boot. A goalkeeper can get a clean sheet by not making a save.

 

[Silas]

It's like if we'd have kept Barthez as our number 1 keeper up until about 2007.

It's madness he's been allowed to stay as number 1 all these years when he's been so poor. This all started at the 2018 World Cup.

It's been 5 years of this. He should have been sold ages ago.

It’s insane.

 

[johnnyteutonic]

I disagree with that sentiment as well. The game might have moved on, but De Gea was also an issue ten years ago. Having no command over the box was an issue ten years ago. The inability to sweep and his inability to play even simple passes, too.
The issue is not that the game suddenly passed him. It’s that he was never fit for the modern game to begin with and instead of working on his weaknesses in order to adapt, he basically stagnated while the only ability he was ever world class in, his shot stopping, declined further and further.
To me it’s not a coincidence that De Gea happens to be the one big constant during your years of turmoil. The opposite is the case, really. De Gea has always been a symptom of the underlying issues holding your club back. And him not showing any improvement whatsoever in his weakest areas fits perfectly into the picture your club has been painting.
Ever since he arrived at your club he had significant weaknesses in areas that are key to success in the modern game. And he has done nothing to improve while your club has rewarded him for mediocrity and a complete lack of ambition and hunger to improve. And this last part, his lack of ambition and so on, that is the worst thing. Because your club not only allowed this, it was actively rewarded by making him the highest paid keeper in the league.

Well said.
He's emblematic of the mediocrity on display at the club over the last decade.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I disagree with that sentiment as well. The game might have moved on, but De Gea was also an issue ten years ago. Having no command over the box was an issue ten years ago. The inability to sweep and his inability to play even simple passes, too.
The issue is not that the game suddenly passed him. It’s that he was never fit for the modern game to begin with and instead of working on his weaknesses in order to adapt, he basically stagnated while the only ability he was ever world class in, his shot stopping, declined further and further.
To me it’s not a coincidence that De Gea happens to be the one big constant during your years of turmoil. The opposite is the case, really. De Gea has always been a symptom of the underlying issues holding your club back. And him not showing any improvement whatsoever in his weakest areas fits perfectly into the picture your club has been painting.
Ever since he arrived at your club he had significant weaknesses in areas that are key to success in the modern game. And he has done nothing to improve while your club has rewarded him for mediocrity and a complete lack of ambition and hunger to improve. And this last part, his lack of ambition and so on, that is the worst thing. Because your club not only allowed this, it was actively rewarded by making him the highest paid keeper in the league.

Spot on

 

[thebelfastboy]

What particularly impressed you about Schmeichel with the ball at his feet?

Schmeichel's ability to command his box is completely unrivalled in the modern game, nobody comes close. He could throw a ball further and with more accuracy than De Gea can kick it and was behind so many quick United counter attacks.

You really think if ETH had the option to sign a prime Schmeichel to play behind Varane and Martinez etc with people like Rashford, Bruno ahead he wouldn't be interested?

Schmeichel would be a beast in any era of the game, past or present. I suggest you go back and watch some clips of him.

P.s: I was responding to this crazy point that you made "Not convinced peak Schmeichel or VDS in this era would necessarily be keepers sought after by the top managers as neither played the game like top managers today seem to want keepers to do"

 

[Sylar]

People are being very disrespectful to schmeichel and vds. Especially the former who launched many of our counters in the 90s through a kick or a huge throw which got us going, either finding Giggs or Sharpe or kanchelskis or latter Beckham or Blomquist

Generally as a shot stopper he is still one of the best around

I read this so often but what evidence is there to support this? Either game wise or stats? Anything to suggest this, because he's not being beaten by worldies and only worldies every week.

Gea had a poor game but criticism is over the top.

Second goal: he could have saved it, but it is not an easy one. It goes through the legs of someone, he expects it to get blocked, it bobbles and bends away towards the far post. On another day he saves it.

To call that second goal a big mistake is harsh.

Distribution: switch Ortega and DeGea and the numbers look much the same. You cannot compare the performance of both when they are playing with different players and different tactics.

The issue is this isn't one game so the criticism is a compound of all issues we see from him. If he didn't have the mistakes of Brentford, Everton, Sevilla, west ham etc, then yesterday people would be more lenient to him.

Also if we're saying he saves it another day, then it's a savable shot meaning he should be saving it in the big game, which he didn't thus a mistake.

Also the distribution thing , there is nothing to suggest ddg would play out the same way Ortega did and the proof is when ddg had options yesterday and even with time and no pressure and still loft floated it to the half way line. This isn't a one game issue again.

 

[Amar__]

A good proportion of these keepers and keepers in general what not stand up any better under the scrutiny De Gea gets. He’s not good enough for us, I agree, but that’s as much as it’s possible or necessary to say. Stick these other keepers in a Utd shirt, put them in cup finals or high profile games and a lot of them will fall apart, the rest will certainly make mistakes that everyone will see.

Well the yesterday's one looked completely fine, especially with passing under pressure. And de Gea has had many bad tight games himself.

 

[Sylar]

Schmeichel's ability to command his box is completely unrivalled in the modern game, nobody comes close. He could throw a ball further and with more accuracy than De Gea can kick it and was behind so many quick United counter attacks.

You really think if ETH had the option to sign a prime Schmeichel to play behind Varane and Martinez etc with people like Rashford, Bruno ahead he wouldn't be interested?

Schmeichel would be a beast in any era of the game, past or present. I suggest you go back and watch some clips of him.

P.s: I was responding to this crazy point that you made "Not convinced peak Schmeichel or VDS in this era would necessarily be keepers sought after by the top managers as neither played the game like top managers today seem to want keepers to do"

Apologies,didn't see your post so I've said the same thing but agree with the counter attacks. Schmeichel could kill an opponent's cross into our box, and have us on the counter and a goal within seconds. There were points where teams were not spamming our box with crosses knowing it was useless because our keeper would either come and get it, or we had the defensive line, which didn't have to drop deep to compensate for it

 

[OrcaFat]

Well the yesterday's one looked completely fine, especially with passing under pressure. And de Gea has had many bad tight games himself.

I know.

 

[groovyalbert]

Sad to see as he has been a great servant to the club through a really tough period, but he is growingly unsuited to the modern game. Hard to see how we take the next steps forward to competing with him as number 1.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[OrcaFat]

Personality is huge in football. Another word for it is 'character'. De Gea is passive. You would never see Schmeichel fear physical contact when coming for a cross or racing off his line to beat a striker to a loose ball.

Talking about the game moving on is all well and good. However, De Gea doesn't struggle solely due to being out of touch with the 'modern game'. The reason he struggles is because he has always been weak in the fundamentals and his one strength no long compensates for it, as it deserted him 5 years ago.

He still makes some great saves. He makes mistakes but didn’t he always?

He doesn’t like coming for crosses etc but he’s not scared of contact it’s just not his game.

I think his main problem is coping with the modern high press game. His footwork and passing was always limited but now he is under so much pressure and lines to all his outballs get closed off. The game has evolved and he has not been able to, sadly.

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Him watching the first goal go in was disappointing, felt like he could have made some sort of attempt. 2nd goal I don’t see how we can assign any blame to him. Sees it late as it’s coming through bodies and swerves away from him in to the corner. Blaming him there is like blaming Varane for not lifting his knee higher.

As for the not playing out from the back, people do remember City play 1 up top with a bank of 4 behind him and 2 others that are all really good at pressing/closing the space. You would think if you’re going to find space it’s beyond that 3 lines to challenge up against the back 3.

Something we failed miserably at and never got near any 2nd balls. Do think at times he should have been more adventurous and even when he was trying to clip it over his delivery was quite poor. He didn’t play well in that respect but seems like a bit of an over reaction to his performance.

 

[MadDogg]

Now, yes. His style and attributes are far going out of fashion with the modern game and how successful clubs ask of their keepers. There's no denying that. Doesn't change my view that for 8 or 9 years he was brilliant for us

8 or 9 years? How? He's been here 12 years. The last five have been poor. His first was poor. That leaves six at most where he was great.

His style and attributes were 'out of fashion' all the way up to the early-to-mid 2000's. Any earlier than that and his other weaknesses (physical weakness, scared of contact and inability to handle crosses) would have been targeted even more by opposition teams, and he would have been bullied off the park. Then there was about a decade where goalkeepers started getting a huge amount of protection and before sweeping and distribution became super important. That decade was about the only time in the last 50 or so years where De Gea could have shone. This idea that he would have been great until this 'modern' style came in really isn't the case.

 

[Irwin99]

I hope this isn't true. To be honest the scary thing is we probably need two goalkeepers because i don't think we've placed a lot of faith in our reserve keepers at all this season.

I'd settle for that Bayern goalkeeper we were linked with a bit back.

 

[OrcaFat]

Him watching the first goal go in was disappointing, felt like he could have made some sort of attempt. 2nd goal I don’t see how we can assign any blame to him. Sees it late as it’s coming through bodies and swerves away from him in to the corner. Blaming him there is like blaming Varane for not lifting his knee higher.

As for the not playing out from the back, people do remember City play 1 up top with a bank of 4 behind him and 2 others that are all really good at pressing/closing the space. You would think if you’re going to find space it’s beyond that 3 lines to challenge up against the back 3.

Something we failed miserably at and never got near any 2nd balls. Do think at times he should have been more adventurous and even when he was trying to clip it over his delivery was quite poor. He didn’t play well in that respect but seems like a bit of an over reaction to his performance.

I think you’ve misread the room a bit there.

The complaints about his poor play from the back are not based on yesterday in particular - these are long-running concerns. He mainly smashes it upfield regardless of the opposition.

I don’t really blame him for the goals yesterday. Some people are blaming him but their comments are born of frustration, I think. It seems to me there is now a majority in favour of replacing him and with that sentiment we’re bound to get a load of unfair criticism thrown in.

 

[edgecutter]

People will lose their minds, but I don't think much money needs to be spent to up grade De Gea, hes been so far off it even Dean Henderson would be worth keeping

 

[Berbaclass]