[sullydnl]

I guarantee you that if De Gea played for Ajax in the Eredivisie then they still would play short most of the time. Teams sit back against Ajax in that league.

I think there's a point to be made that maybe Ten Hag doesn't play the Ajax model because he's in the Premier League.

Why on earth would he change that style of play just because he's moved to the PL?

 

[JB7]

He won the league already so yes, he's good enough to win the league.

I mean the year we won the league with him we conceded the most goals and any title winning team this century & he was dropped for four games not once but twice, so even if we allow for the absolutely ridiculous level of living an entire decade in the past here, it doesn't even necessarily ring true.

Comical from him last night.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Which part do you disagree with? That was a poor performance even by De Gea standards. But none of his mistakes lead to goals. Goalkeepers like Alisson and Ederson do in fact occasionally make costly passing mistakes that lead to goals, but these mistakes are shrugged off because people assume that the overall good passing outweighs these mistakes.

I personally disagree with this. I'd rather the goalkeeper don't try to be an outfield player. Or to make it simpler terms:

Goalkeeper A
- 10 out of 10 when it comes to making saves
- 5 out of 10 when it comes to passing and distribution
- Concedes 0 goals per season due to passing mistakes

Goalkeeper B
- 9 out of 10 when it comes to making saves
- 10 out of 10 when it comes to passing and distribution
- Concedes 1 goal per season due to passing mistakes(or keeping the ball for too long)

I pick Goalkeeper A any day of the week. And I am convinced that he is worth more points as well.

Why do most top-class managers nowadays build their teams around a type-B goalkeeper, then?

 

[Scandi Red]

Yikes, I can't reply to all of you @Solius , @sifi36 , @quadrant , @Longshanks , @Oranges038, @TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

I respect your opinion and I understand where you are coming from. When a certain manager has achieved a lot of success with a certain type of goalkeeper for a long time it is tempting to assume that this should be replicated. I just happen to think that there are many ways of playing football and achieving success. I also think that you can play positive, dominant and attacking football with a goalkeeper like De Gea. At least when he's in form.

In a parallell universe I sit down with De Gea's 3 best seasons and Ederson's 3 best seasons, watch every single minute and try to make a fair conclusion on who has been more valuable for their respective teams. My gut-feeling says that the answer is De Gea, but I cannot prove this of course.

I keep reading that De Gea is incompatible with Ten Hag's football. I don't know enough about Ten Hag's past to dispute that. But if De Gea is as much of a misfit as some of you suggest, then replacing him is surely Ten Hag's first priority. I guess we'll all know the answer after this summer.

 

[Borys]

Which part do you disagree with? That was a poor performance even by De Gea standards. But none of his mistakes lead to goals. Goalkeepers like Alisson and Ederson do in fact occasionally make costly passing mistakes that lead to goals, but these mistakes are shrugged off because people assume that the overall good passing outweighs these mistakes.

I personally disagree with this. I'd rather the goalkeeper don't try to be an outfield player. Or to make it simpler terms:

Goalkeeper A
- 10 out of 10 when it comes to making saves
- 5 out of 10 when it comes to passing and distribution
- Concedes 0 goals per season due to passing mistakes

Goalkeeper B
- 9 out of 10 when it comes to making saves
- 10 out of 10 when it comes to passing and distribution
- Concedes 1 goal per season due to passing mistakes(or keeping the ball for too long)

I pick Goalkeeper A any day of the week. And I am convinced that he is worth more points as well.

Almost every manager now wants to have a goalkeeper who is good with the ball at his feet. De Gea and probably Courtois are the only examples of GKs who are clearly not good with the ball at their feet.

Are you suggesting every manager is wrong here?

Also, there's a weird belief that there is a trade-off to be made that you get worse shot-stopper if you want a good passer. This is not the case apart from some extreme examples.

 

[Solius]

Yikes, I can't reply to all of you @Solius , @sifi36 , @quadrant , @Longshanks , @Oranges038, @TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

I respect your opinion and I understand where you are coming from. When a certain manager has achieved a lot of success with a certain type of goalkeeper for a long time it is tempting to assume that this should be replicated. I just happen to think that there are many ways of playing football and achieving success. I also think that you can play positive, dominant and attacking football with a goalkeeper like De Gea. At least when he's in form.

In a parallell universe I sit down with De Gea's 3 best seasons and Ederson's 3 best seasons, watch every single minute and try to make a fair conclusion on who has been more valuable for their respective teams. My gut-feeling says that the answer is De Gea, but I cannot prove this of course.

I keep reading that De Gea is incompatible with Ten Hag's football. I don't know enough about Ten Hag's past to dispute that. But if De Gea is as much of a misfit as some of you suggest, then replacing him is surely Ten Hag's first priority. I guess we'll all know the answer after this summer.

He's not a misfit but he definitely has big limitations in the modern game. I think we don't realise how much the defence would relax having a keeper who comes out and claims basic crosses instead of retreating onto their line or punching them. So many nervy moments in our games would go away if we had a keeper who just came out and caught the ball.

Simple things like that make a huge difference to the defence and rest of the team. If they know your GK has excellent distribution whether it be kicking or throws, they'll even be wary of lofting a simple ball in for fear the GK starts a counter.

Look at VDS. Not the greatest shot stopper in the world but absolutely oozed control and calm, and we won the lot with him.

 

[Scandi Red]

Also, there's a weird belief that there is a trade-off to be made that you get worse shot-stopper if you want a good passer. This is not the case apart from some extreme examples.

Of course that's not the case.

My point is just that I find the importance of distribution overrated and simultaneously that the negative effects of De Gea's poor distribution is being exaggerated.

To make one thing perfectly clear: if there is an available goalkeeper on the market who has great distribution AND is just as good(or better) at making saves, then I see no reason to keep De Gea apart from sentimental reasons. It wouldn't be my first choice of transfers (I think center forward and central midfield is more urgent now), but I wouldn't be opposed to it either.

 

[Oranges038]

Of course that's not the case.

My point is just that I find the importance of distribution overrated and simultaneously that the negative effects of De Gea's poor distribution is being exaggerated.

To make one thing perfectly clear: if there is an available goalkeeper on the market who has great distribution AND is just as good(or better) at making saves, then I see no reason to keep De Gea apart from sentimental reasons. It wouldn't be my first choice of transfers (I think center forward and central midfield is more urgent now), but I wouldn't be opposed to it either.

That is just all kinds of wrong.

You'll find it very hard to control any game at any level if your keeper keeps giving the ball away 50% of the time, this goes down to around 30% the longer the ball is played.

Regardless if how good his shot stopping is, you will be under pressure from the ball coming back constantly. In the PL, you simply cannot afford to give the ball away that much.

Also to be clear distribution is just one of his many flaws, if it was the only one you might just be able to live with it.

 

[Borys]

Of course that's not the case.

My point is just that I find the importance of distribution overrated and simultaneously that the negative effects of De Gea's poor distribution is being exaggerated.

To make one thing perfectly clear: if there is an available goalkeeper on the market who has great distribution AND is just as good(or better) at making saves, then I see no reason to keep De Gea apart from sentimental reasons. It wouldn't be my first choice of transfers (I think center forward and central midfield is more urgent now), but I wouldn't be opposed to it either.

We're on the same page then. Upgrading on him should be fairly easy, quite a few gks would look better than De Gea with Varane, Martinez, Shaw and Casemiro in front. It'll be more a question of money we can spend, considering we have 0,5 strikers going into next season as things stand.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He had Onana (Cameroon international) in his early 20s for the first few years until he got caught for doping. One of those "tested my wife's gear" situations.

Then he signed 38-year old Stekelenburg, gave him about 30 games (now the backup at Ajax), then he signed 38-year old Pasveer, who is their current goalkeeper.

Onana could have been an interesting signing, but he went to Inter last summer.

He's always struck me as a bit, uh, nuts though:

Sorry I meant, what kind of keepers were these three? I’m trying to understand if ETH ensured his keeper could play ball ball, at Ajax.

 

[quadrant]

Of course that's not the case.

My point is just that I find the importance of distribution overrated and simultaneously that the negative effects of De Gea's poor distribution is being exaggerated.

To make one thing perfectly clear: if there is an available goalkeeper on the market who has great distribution AND is just as good(or better) at making saves, then I see no reason to keep De Gea apart from sentimental reasons. It wouldn't be my first choice of transfers (I think center forward and central midfield is more urgent now), but I wouldn't be opposed to it either.

I guess the starting point here is how good you think DDG is at making saves. You seem to be implying (without going and looking at your previous posts) that you rate DDG as a good shot stopper. But if you look at the stats, the majority of keepers in the league are better than he.

 

[Sylar]

Of course that's not the case.

My point is just that I find the importance of distribution overrated and simultaneously that the negative effects of De Gea's poor distribution is being exaggerated.

To make one thing perfectly clear: if there is an available goalkeeper on the market who has great distribution AND is just as good(or better) at making saves, then I see no reason to keep De Gea apart from sentimental reasons. It wouldn't be my first choice of transfers (I think center forward and central midfield is more urgent now), but I wouldn't be opposed to it either.

DDG isnt making saves that no other keeper cant. Hes not consistently making saves that outweigh all other weaknesses of his game.
People keep saying that he can make saves other keepers cant, but thats not true anymore. When youre conceding 9 goals from 11 shots, then the argument 'no other keeper would have made those saves' makes the whole argument flawed, because if thats the case, you can easily replace DDG with a solid keeper, who will then have strengths in other areas, and automatically the defensive unit increases in strength.

Ive liked DDG, but its been obvious for a few years we should have replaced him. I wouldnt have had a problem if he had gone when Madrid tried to get him. I was ok with him staying. The big problem was when we then gave him a huge contract on increased wages when all top teams had their keeper situation sorted. There was no need for us to do it, because we had no risk of losing him. And if there was, it would have him going down a level or two to get better wages, which would have shown where his mind was.

I do think people need to quit with calling him a clown and such names. Hes given us good service. But we as a club need to move on from him and keep evolving.

 

[caid]

Yikes, I can't reply to all of you @Solius , @sifi36 , @quadrant , @Longshanks , @Oranges038, @TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

I respect your opinion and I understand where you are coming from. When a certain manager has achieved a lot of success with a certain type of goalkeeper for a long time it is tempting to assume that this should be replicated. I just happen to think that there are many ways of playing football and achieving success. I also think that you can play positive, dominant and attacking football with a goalkeeper like De Gea. At least when he's in form.

In a parallell universe I sit down with De Gea's 3 best seasons and Ederson's 3 best seasons, watch every single minute and try to make a fair conclusion on who has been more valuable for their respective teams. My gut-feeling says that the answer is De Gea, but I cannot prove this of course.

I keep reading that De Gea is incompatible with Ten Hag's football. I don't know enough about Ten Hag's past to dispute that. But if De Gea is as much of a misfit as some of you suggest, then replacing him is surely Ten Hag's first priority. I guess we'll all know the answer after this summer.

This argument would have more merit if it was attached to a keeper who's a good shot stopper. De Gea isn't anymore, he hasn't been for years.

 

[Olecurls99]

Alisson launches 23.6% of his goal kicks and Ederson is at 20.5%, both in the league this season. It’s not about the Premier League, it’s about personnel. If we had a possession secure pivot player and a keeper who doesn’t treat the ball like it’ll explode at any moment, we could do the same.

Fair enough but they do give up about 3 or 4 goals a year by letting the ball go under there feet and the like.

I'll take 40% more launching.

Also sometimes a launch leads to a goal. Has anybody considered that. You know, you do bypass about 6 players straight away. If you win the second ball, you're in a strong position.

 

[Sylar]

Fair enough but they do give up about 3 or 4 goals a year by letting the ball go under there feet and the like.

I'll take 40% more launching.

Also sometimes a launch leads to a goal. Has anybody considered that. You know, you do bypass about 6 players straight away. If you win the second ball, you're in a strong position.

Right, I've seen ederson and Allison get assists. How many does ddg have?

 

[JB7]

Fair enough but they do give up about 3 or 4 goals a year by letting the ball go under there feet and the like.

I'll take 40% more launching.

Also sometimes a launch leads to a goal. Has anybody considered that. You know, you do bypass about 6 players straight away. If you win the second ball, you're in a strong position.

Literally making it up as you go along.

 

[Abraxas]

I think he's doing his absolute best. I don't think he grew up as a ball playing keeper, it wasn't a big requirement for Fergie either so he wasn't bought specifically for it, now he's asked to do technical things at the very top level of football that probably had to be ingrained at a much younger age to be natural.

He's still trying to do it because he's asked, but it leads to a frequency of kicking mistakes like last night that you don't see from other keepers. It must be a slightly awkward feeling if you're DeGea to be in that situation where you're basically asked to be an outfield player but all of your skills in your formative years were formed around shot stopping and traditional goalkeeping. That's a really sharp transition at this level with the way pressing has developed. I actually think he's done alright in that context.

I do think we need to thank DeGea for some excellent service and move on pretty sharpish.

 

[fallengt]

Keep him if he reduces his wage to 1/3 and accept rotation. Otherwise bin

 

[sifi36]

Fair enough but they do give up about 3 or 4 goals a year by letting the ball go under there feet and the like.

I'll take 40% more launching.

Also sometimes a launch leads to a goal. Has anybody considered that. You know, you do bypass about 6 players straight away. If you win the second ball, you're in a strong position.

Can you back up your claims of 3 or 4 times a year? Or is it actually once or twice but because they’re such horrendous mistakes they stick in the mind? De Gea has made at least two goal conceding errors from ball playing (Brentford’s second and Leeds’ 1st at home) and several in the last few weeks where his defenders bailed him out. They’re not making any more mistakes despite the fact that they have double the number of touches that De Gea does.

You’re also failing to take into account that moves that start with the goalkeeper playing short are more likely to result in a goal scored or controlled possession (the two most likely ways to effect victory) than a long kick.

City accumulate 0.34 xG per 90 with possessions that include Ederson. That equates to a goal every three games. De Gea is at 0.18 or once every five and a half. If we scored half as many as them you could put it down to the team overall, but we don’t, we create 80% of their xG, yet our goalkeeper is involved in moves that are half of what theirs is.

You’re right about the fact that launches do lead to goals. They have both got multiple assists and pre-assists from their long kicking, I can’t think of a single example of De Gea’s as his long kicking is terrible.

 

[Olecurls99]

Can you back up your claims of 3 or 4 times a year? Or is it actually once or twice but because they’re such horrendous mistakes they stick in the mind? De Gea has made at least two goal conceding errors from ball playing (Brentford’s second and Leeds’ 1st at home) and several in the last few weeks where his defenders bailed him out. They’re not making any more mistakes despite the fact that they have double the number of touches that De Gea does.

You’re also failing to take into account that moves that start with the goalkeeper playing short are more likely to result in a goal scored or controlled possession (the two most likely ways to effect victory) than a long kick.

City accumulate 0.34 xG per 90 with possessions that include Ederson. That equates to a goal every three games. De Gea is at 0.18 or once every five and a half. If we scored half as many as them you could put it down to the team overall, but we don’t, we create 80% of their xG, yet our goalkeeper is involved in moves that are half of what theirs is.

You’re right about the fact that launches do lead to goals. They have both got multiple assists and pre-assists from their long kicking, I can’t think of a single example of De Gea’s as his long kicking is terrible.

City score more goals from plays that include Ederson because.....you know ......City score way more goals.

Can you prove that more goals come from short goalkeeper passing as opposed to the goalie launching it?

 

[Dorris]

Fair enough but they do give up about 3 or 4 goals a year by letting the ball go under there feet and the like.

I'll take 40% more launching.

Also sometimes a launch leads to a goal. Has anybody considered that. You know, you do bypass about 6 players straight away. If you win the second ball, you're in a strong position.

Aye, that’s the way to dominate games, get a target man and feed off him from long balls. So many top teams do that in modern football we’d be fools not to!

 

[Dorris]

Fair enough but they do give up about 3 or 4 goals a year by letting the ball go under there feet and the like.

I'll take 40% more launching.

Also sometimes a launch leads to a goal. Has anybody considered that. You know, you do bypass about 6 players straight away. If you win the second ball, you're in a strong position.

Aye, that’s the way to dominate games, get a target man and feed off him from long balls. So many top teams do that in modern football we’d be fools not to!

 

[RuudTom83]

Dave isn’t immune to feeling nervous, he had to pick the ball out of his net seven times last time out.

You could tell a few of the players were still feeling the pressure from the Liverpool beating.

Plus the weather was awful.

Dave has been fairly decent with his passing this season, so I’ll let him off for last night.

 

[JagUTD]

Clean sheets are a statistical (and not particularly good) measure of team defence, i.e whether a goal was conceded. We're talking about goalkeeper performance, i.e. what the goalkeeper actually did to contribute to that goal not being conceded.

I can't think of any stat that specifically measures De Gea's perfomance within the team that favours him at the moment.

Ah, so like a goal scorers goals are more about the team creating the chances for them?

Unsurprisingly it's par for the course that people will use stats against him but then dismiss any stats that go against. And I hope for everyone's sake there's no such thing as expected saves because if there is, I don't think we can take the amateur statisticians seriously anymore.

 

[JagUTD]

Why do most top-class managers nowadays build their teams around a type-B goalkeeper, then?

No manager builds any team around any goalkeeper. It's never happened.

What even is this?

 

[sifi36]

City score more goals from plays that include Ederson because.....you know ......City score way more goals.

Can you prove that more goals come from short goalkeeper passing as opposed to the goalie launching it?

I addressed your first comment in my post. City accumulate 25% more xG in the league (more in goals but that’s a function of having The Terminator up front and it still doesn’t make up the difference), yet Ederson’s possessions are twice as likely to end in a goal as De Gea’s.

Whilst the data to prove whether short or long kicks are more likely to result in a goal isn’t freely available, there was an analysis posted earlier in this thread that speaks to some of that. Nevertheless, we lose possession 70% of the time we go long, so it wouldn’t be unreasonable to infer that it’s not very likely for us to score from a possession that begins with a long kick from the goalkeeper.

 

[sullydnl]

Ah, so like a goal scorers goals are more about the team creating the chances for them?

Unsurprisingly it's par for the course that people will use stats against him but then dismiss any stats that go against. And I hope for everyone's sake there's no such thing as expected saves because if there is, I don't think we can take the amateur statisticians seriously anymore.

Not really, because the goals scored and clean sheets are fundamentally different stats.

It's rather ironic that you would accuse others of being amateur statisticians given you made a pretty fundamental statistical error in confusing what a clean sheet actually measures.

 

[redcucumber]

Dave isn’t immune to feeling nervous, he had to pick the ball out of his net seven times last time out.

You could tell a few of the players were still feeling the pressure from the Liverpool beating.

Plus the weather was awful.

Dave has been fairly decent with his passing this season, so I’ll let him off for last night.

Has he? He's been the same as usual from my POV for the most part which is markedly subpar, and it's been noticeably diabolical recently. The West Ham and Real Betis games were just horrific.

 

[RedMistyDevil]

ten Hag is definitely working on it now (from The Athletic):

When asked if De Gea can improve on the weakness, Ten Hag replied: “From today I can’t ignore it, but I think we have seen many games he did really well.

“I don’t know what the reason was. There was a lot of wind, a different ball, probably he had some problems with that, but I know we can deal with it and he will do better Sunday.

“We work on that but David is working on that.

“But I think we have seen in this season that he is improving and he will keep improving, I’m sure.”

 

[redcucumber]

What about the one where he's currently 3rd in the clean sheet table, above the converted ball playing keepers like Ederson and Allison?

Also having his best season since 17/18 in terms of shut outs and we've still got quite a few games left, could actually be on for his best ever.

Which goes to show how stats aren't always the best measure of performance. He's had a distinctly average season, relative to his goalkeeping peers and I'd say I'm being generous. He needs to go this summer.

 

[led_scholes]

Which part do you disagree with? That was a poor performance even by De Gea standards. But none of his mistakes lead to goals. Goalkeepers like Alisson and Ederson do in fact occasionally make costly passing mistakes that lead to goals, but these mistakes are shrugged off because people assume that the overall good passing outweighs these mistakes.

I personally disagree with this. I'd rather the goalkeeper don't try to be an outfield player. Or to make it simpler terms:

Goalkeeper A
- 10 out of 10 when it comes to making saves
- 5 out of 10 when it comes to passing and distribution
- Concedes 0 goals per season due to passing mistakes

Goalkeeper B
- 9 out of 10 when it comes to making saves
- 10 out of 10 when it comes to passing and distribution
- Concedes 1 goal per season due to passing mistakes(or keeping the ball for too long)

I pick Goalkeeper A any day of the week. And I am convinced that he is worth more points as well.

I guessed you missed the Brentford game.

The fact that we don't concede every time DDG missplaces a pass that doesn't mean that this is not an issue. We lose at least about 5 minutes of play every game due to DDG passing the ball to the opposition 3-4 times which invites pressure.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Clean sheets are a statistical (and not particularly good) measure of team defence, i.e whether a goal was conceded. We're talking about goalkeeper performance, i.e. what the goalkeeper actually did to contribute to that goal not being conceded.

I can't think of any stat that specifically measures De Gea's perfomance within the team that favours him at the moment.

And it’s not even about a stat that favours him. I’d like to see any individual stat where he is even average? I’m never sure where is the best place to find goalie stats but FBref has 80% of goalkeepers with a better save % (75% for penalties) over the last 365 days. 75% making more defensive actions outside their box and 98% better at intercepting crosses into the box!

Couldn’t find stats on how good he is with his feet but are they really necessary for anyone who’s been watching him these last few years?!

Statistically, the problem isn’t that we have an average keeper that we need to upgrade. If we replaced him with a bang average keeper (or even slightly below average) that would be an upgrade!

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

City score more goals from plays that include Ederson because.....you know ......City score way more goals.

Can you prove that more goals come from short goalkeeper passing as opposed to the goalie launching it?

You are arguing a point no one actually made. Perhaps, that's the problem.

Utilizing your goalkeeper in the build-up as another outfield player allows you to be more progressive with your attacking positioning. And most managers worth their salt nowadays opt for attacking structures that are rather adventurous. To put it simply, having the ball and taking the game to your opponent is the norm now in football.

Whether you want to play through the press or move the ball through the lines, it helps not to have players constantly dropping deep to receive the ball. Ederson doesn't assist goals for City, but he helps the team stay up the field. Alisson is an excellent link when Liverpool switch sides in their build-up quickly to move the ball forward.

ETH uses a rather aggressive 3-1-6 in the build-up. It usually consists of the two centre-halves and either FB. Don't you think that the team would benefit from having a GK able to participate in the build-up so that we can move both FBs or Casemiro further up the pitch? It's about adding options to what you're doing. It doesn't mean that De Gea is worthless and that he should be replaced by the next guy who's walking by OT.

No manager builds any team around any goalkeeper. It's never happened.

What even is this?

I'll just remind you that Guardiola actually kicked Hart (City's captain) out of the training ground to get his preferred choice in. He also created one of the best sides in the world by showing faith to a GK who didn't excel at, pretty much, nothing else other than having good feet and leaving the sticks to sweep. Klopp spent a fortune (70 million Euros) on Alisson. I guess, it mattered to them.

 

[JagUTD]

No, because the goals scored and clean sheets are fundamentally different stats.

It's rather ironic that you would accuse others of being amateur statisticians given you made a pretty fundamental statistical error in confusing what a clean sheet actually measures.

Really? You mean not conceding and scoring aren't the same? My expected surprise is 0.83!

There is however a element of both which requires the rest of the team to ensure both excel in each, while at the same time a goalscorer is capable of creating their own chances and goals, a goalkeeper is also capable of ensuring they keep a clean sheet. De Gea, irrespective of whichever stat someone pulls out their rear might try and suggest, happens to be pretty damn good at the "how did he save that" type save.

 

[TMDaines]

C’mon Erik. Do it. The last sacred cow to be slaughtered.

 

[Pickle85]

You are arguing a point no one actually made. Perhaps, that's the problem.

Utilizing your goalkeeper in the build-up as another outfield player allows you to be more progressive with your attacking positioning. And most managers worth their salt nowadays opt for attacking structures that are rather adventurous. To put it simply, having the ball and taking the game to your opponent is the norm now in football.

Whether you want to play through the press or move the ball through the lines, it helps not to have players constantly dropping deep to receive the ball. Ederson doesn't assist goals for City, but he helps the team stay up the field. Alisson is an excellent link when Liverpool switch sides in their build-up quickly to move the ball forward.

ETH uses a rather aggressive 3-1-6 in the build-up. It usually consists of the two centre-halves and either FB. Don't you think that the team would benefit from having a GK able to participate in the build-up so that we can move both FBs or Casemiro further up the pitch? It's about adding options to what you're doing. It doesn't mean that De Gea is worthless and that he should be replaced by the next guy who's walking by OT.




I'll just remind you that Guardiola actually kicked Hart (City's captain) out of the training ground to get his preferred choice in. He also created one of the best sides in the world by showing faith to a GK who didn't excel at, pretty much, nothing else other than having good feet and leaving the sticks to sweep. Klopp spent a fortune (70 million Euros) on Alisson. I guess, it mattered to them.

I don't think anyone's arguing that goalkeepers aren't important. The point that poster made was that teams aren't build around goalkeepers. Do you think Pep built his team around Ederson? Do you think Klopp built his team around Alisson?

 

[RedMistyDevil]

C’mon Erik. Do it. The last sacred cow to be slaughtered.

This is actually what Erik said:

When asked if De Gea can improve on the weakness, Ten Hag replied: “From today I can’t ignore it, but I think we have seen many games he did really well.

“I don’t know what the reason was. There was a lot of wind, a different ball, probably he had some problems with that, but I know we can deal with it and he will do better Sunday.

“We work on that but David is working on that.

“But I think we have seen in this season that he is improving and he will keep improving, I’m sure.”

 

[TMDaines]

This is actually what Erik said:

Erik is keeping his cool and sharpening his knives for the summer: clean sheet in the Europa League and FA Cup finals, before emptying his locker for him the next morning.

 

[Pickle85]

Erik is keeping his cool and sharpening his knives for the summer: clean sheet in the Europa League and FA Cup finals, before emptying his locker for him the next morning.

Wishful thinking on your part. I bet you a fiver (big money, I know!) that DDG is still our first choice when we start next season.

 

[croadyman]

Wishful thinking on your part. I bet you a fiver (big money, I know!) that DDG is still our first choice when we start next season.

Only because Erik can't get his target now