Same with Maguire last season.
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The notion that he has not been criticized, while the defenders are is laughable. Only a Maguire supporter will say that.
This is often underlooked. 10 years and he's never established himself as a true leader/captain despite us severely lacking leaders during large portions of that period. He had the performances to back the claim but his personality has never been that of a leader.
I don't know about being a leader but it's mad to me to see a goalkeeper who is so quiet on the pitch. At the very least he needs to be a vocal member of the defence. He's the only player who has a permanent view of every opponent and needs to be constantly organising the defenders in front of him. That's not necessarily being a leader for the team as a whole but it's very important. And I just don't see any evidence of that happening whenever I watch him play (most obvious on rare occasions when I'm actually at Old Trafford)
It's not but it fits an agenda. Alisson was way worse a few weeks ago when Madrid put 5 past him yet not a peep from the usual suspects here despite Liverpool having a higher XG than Madrid in that game.
For me communication and leadership go hand in hand. You can't be one without the other.
I remember when he first came he was timid in communicating and at the time it was understandable as he was a rookie keeper being asked to move the likes Rio, Vidic, Evra etc around. However for whatever reason even when he became an established player within the squad and a top performer it was a side of his game that still lacked. The only explanation as to why he's still so quiet on the pitch has to be something intrinsic with him hence why I relate it to him never establishing himself as a leader despite the environment being one that was begging for one within the squad.
Well, Allison is currently the number 1 ranked shot stopper in Europe. So people are indeed more willing to give him a pass when he has the odd shit game.
I find it interesting yesterday was the game that made people realise or comment on him needing to be finally replaced.
Me, orange and jb7 have mentioned it after games he's been worse for us (but people over looked due to pulling of a save that was due to him). Think we also got a group nickname for this
This is why I keep saying criticising a weakness (and mentioning how the cons outweigh the pros) doesn't = agenda. That's been thrown around a lot recently in this thread (the biggest defence in his case seemed to be he makes saves others don't etc)
If arsenal win the title , ramsdale is yet another example of a manager coming in and getting a keeper he feels is more suitable to the style of play and thus benefiting
Pep replaced hart (and bravo)
Klopp replaced mignolet (and karius)
Arteta replaced Leno(and Martinez)
Replacing ddg with the right keeper will have huge benefits in lots of aspects
Well he did let in 7. So ya know, he didn't do 80% of his job very well.
Games like that just highlight how poor he is in other aspects, distribution especially. It was so easy for Liverpool to close down knowing he can't beat the press with a pass through the lines.
Literally cost them the tie.
I'm not sure what you mean? Maguire was horrendous and 99 percent of the people here wanted him replaced as a priority
With the score is 0 for us, would you say Rashford didn't do 80% of his job very well?
And yet most say he's still their player of the season so far. Guess they don't judge players on a single game.
Yeah being at fault for the second and fifth goals in a game that finished 5-2 is him costing them the tie.
And 90% of the time the past 5 years he's been the best goalkeeper in Europe. What's your point? Something is a problem if it happens regularly, if their average level is low. If their average level is elite and they drop the odd clanger... Well that's just normal.
Standard xG and xG on target is pretty irrelevant for a goalkeeper evaluation. Not really a great method, but the best is by far John Harrison on twitter who focuses entirely on goalkeepers and has his own models. But anyway, outside of that guys stuff, publicly available goalkeeper analytics is mostly irrelevant.
That 80% is joking reference to the poster who said 80% of the keepers job is to make saves. He didn't have a great day at the one bit of his job he's apparently the best in the world at.
It only took one game where people saw DDG not making any saves before they start going on about him not being very good at the rest. But, you can be guaranteed as soon as he makes a few saves it'll be forgotten again, he won't be a problem anymore. Until the next drubbing.
Utd need a new keeper, 2 new right backs, a new midfielder and a new striker. For me, a new keeper is top of that list.
They were up 2-1 before his mistake in the second goal and the team completely fell apart after. If they go 2-1 into the break who knows, they might still be in it.
He was terrible for the first half of their 20/21 season, granted scored a crucial goal to get them into the top four later that year but let's not pretend hes been infallible since joining Liverpool and he gets far more leeway than our best player for the past decade. Like I said we should replace De Gea this summer but it's just hilarious how a Liverpool player gets more leeway than a United player in a United forum.
Well this is all highly theoretical. They didn't concede in the 10 minutes before half time after his error, so it's reasonable to conclude they didn't fall apart solely because of a goalkeeping error.
And even if we say that theoretically it is all down to Alisson, I don't really understand your point. He has been their best player by a distance this season. Are you saying that De Gea hasn't cost us games/cup competitions in the past?
Still capable of match winning performances but he has too many weird moments/games over the last 3 years or so for my liking
Maintained all season that we need to upgrade on him before we see Ten Hags vision for United
Maintained all season that we need to upgrade on him before we see Ten Hags vision for United
Joke of a tweet. Keepers, however good, will concede heavily if the team performs disastrously. He’s also totally carried us and saved us from midtable finishes in multiple seasons during his time here, where he was undoubtably one of the best keepers in the world, and they’ve included his whole career at United there.
He’s also been criticised an insane amount from the moment he came.
Interested why you say that? For xG on target anyway, not regular xG.
It’s so amusing to see people continue to defend him. If you know ball you know he’s got to go.
not to stick the boot in but I do wonder who he’d be playing for now if the Madrid deal had happened, I’m assuming not Madrid
Yeah the Caf is just choc full of experts!
Gakpo's goal yesterday a perfect example. XG on target basically just refers to placement of a shot within the frame of the goal... Doesn't usually take into account angle shooting from or speed of the shot or curl. All hard to quantify in a goalkeeper model. Gakpo for example chipped de Gea from a position that de Gea had no business conceding from. It landed in the far corner. Super high xG on target. In reality, de Gea should make himself bigger and save it before it goes all the way to the far post.
I just never fancy him to keep the score down when those type of days happen and keep it from being embarrassing. No one would dispute some of his legendary performances for United but when it goes wrong he just seems another one that gets shell shocked. The third goal (imo) and the Firminho goal shouldn't happen.
I don't think you can reasonably discount a statistical model based on a single data point that still appears to be well within the margin for error. You might well be right in saying that this shot was rated a bit higher than it deserved - even though a point blank shot is always among the hardest to stop - but that's not enough to claim the entire model is irrelevant.
We desperately need a leader between the sticks. Big Pete and VdS were very different personalities but both commanded the box well and communicated with the defence expertly. They could also pull out a show stopper save if it required it. DdG isn’t a leader - too meek, and passive. I’m certain the moment he’s replaced by a goalkeeper with a big persona, these hammerings will be a thing of the past.
That's revisionism. Majority suspected Maguire isn't a good fit for Ten Hag ball and had 1 really poor season, but were content to invest in other priority areas instead (DM, RW, ST, RB then CB). Read the older threads if you have to. Especially regarding the Martinez signing when we hadn't signed any in the priority. I even had to argue with a few who insisted that the RB position is more important than CB.
To me, De Gea falls under the same category. But this time, unlike with Maguire, I'm in the camp that thinks it's critical we bring in a GK - even if De Gea stays on reduced wages.
Oww.. sorry i was out of context. Yeh, DDG can be improved, although it would take 50-70m to get an obvious upgrade on him.
A new keeper as top of the list won't make us won that 7-0 game. I am curious. But yeah, we all have opinions.
Which goal that you think even the like of Alisson would've prevented??
Based on what?
Based on historical recent purchase of Gk. I did say "obvious upgrade".
Such as?
Maignan £15m. Kobel £15m. Sommer £8m. Bounou £3m. Martinez £20m. Ramsdale £20m. Pope £10m. Rulli £8m. Sa £7m.
I'm not suggesting all those would be my first picks but it's a myth that we'd need to spend £70m replacing De Gea with a goalkeeper that would be a better fit.
Both near post finishes could have been saved I felt. I wouldn't say they are DDG mistakes but felt they could have been saved. In fact another day I think DDG saves the Firmino shot.
Said it before, he's a superman goalie. fecking useless at everything else apart from doing something he wouldnt actually need to do if he was a better leader.
It's not a useful model and there are far better out there is my point. There are countless examples. I always post this guy but he explains it better:
This is de geas clanger vs Brentford which his model says is saved 96% of the time, while Opta had only 68% for xG on target. Massive difference.
Neither of these models were built for analyzing goalkeepers. This guys entire focus is goalkeeper analysis and he posts great stuff on twitter, especially when he posts his breakdown of how a goalkeeper does across different metrics and how they compare to others in the league.
Striker is certainty most important. The right one there will also transform our team. Central midfield, keeper and maybe rightback are all fairly even in my eyes.
I don't think 50/70m is true. Plenty available for much less and as the other poster pointed out other teams have done it.
Honestly all the goals were total shit from a collective point of view, I think 3 and 7 were probably the most stoppable. Most keepers stop those.
No matter how many times I watch it, De Gea always comes out as one of the weakest link in our defense. The man is a legend for us and has given some outstanding performances. Best SHot stopper of the world and well deserved. But we have to move on from him. The meta has changed since Pep arrived. Alisson and Ederson have upped the requirements. Its not just the distribution, I think commanding GKs who are good at coming out of their line and take bold risks has become the vogue of successful teams. De Gea is none of this. It adds a lot of pressure on a defense still finding its feet with new additions. I think we should target a new striker next season, but also get a World Class GK. A shite madrid team won the CL final last season thanks to Courtois. I can imagine De Gea making similar blocks, but definitely not strong enough to organize the defense and stem this kinda constant pressure from opposition. Its high time we replace him.
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