One argument which i used often to defend him now i must use against him. Man Utd gk must save something. From 7 shots on target he must pull some save despite how good are shots.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 58
- Clean sheets
- 25
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Like I said I prefer Allisson to De Gea every day of the week. But he really didnt have a great game. We dont excuse Daves bad distribution when it doesnt cost us a goal either.
An actual sensible poster criticising de gea here.
I still think he'll be out no.1 next year. We clearly need a striker and midfielder and a rb and I don't see how they arent prioritised over a goalkeeper by eth. Our depth outfield is shite.
This is again assuming a goal keeper will cost 50 plus mil
It's not just about costing goals.
You cede control of the ball too much when you have a keeper who just boots it aimlessly down field.
If he's still our GK next season, I think our ceiling is limited.
Wow he was so so bad yesterday.
Yeah the issue with DDG is that he's neither. He isn't a great distributor nor is here a big strong keeper who can claim a cross and command his area.
Alisson's performance was nothing special by his standards but you still notice some pretty major differences between him and De Gea (aside from the seven goal difference in the number of goals they conceded).
One massively noticeable difference for me was set pieces. Any set piece taken against Liverpool has to be almost perfectly placed, since their defensive line is set up brilliantly and anything near Alisson is his every time. With United, the defence usually does their bit but De Gea just does not command his area. This is an issue because it means we have to overload the six yard box with defenders, and it then becomes far more difficult to win the second ball at the edge of the area.
Another obvious one is distribution. I happen to agree with both sides of the argument ongoing in this thread on that front. Alisson's wasn't even particularly immaculate yesterday, and it was still considerably better than De Gea's. The main issue here is that De Gea just cannot play against pressure. He always looks panicky when being pressed by an opponent and will nearly always go long. It then becomes much more difficult to slow the game down, and indeed relieve a bit of pressure, since it's very difficult to hold possession from those long kicks. In matches like yesterday, where there were times when we desperately needed to at least slow down their onslaught, that becomes quite a big problem.
I'll be honest, with all this said I'd still like us to keep Dave around next season. However, this comes with the caveat that another keeper is signed who can reasonably compete with him for the starting spot. I think whichever keeper we sign is going to need a grace period where they get used to the pressure of being United's number one, and I think Dave would be very handy in helping bridge that gap. I just don't think we can go on much longer having him as the undisputed number one keeper. There are too many flaws in his game.
One massively noticeable difference for me was set pieces. Any set piece taken against Liverpool has to be almost perfectly placed, since their defensive line is set up brilliantly and anything near Alisson is his every time. With United, the defence usually does their bit but De Gea just does not command his area. This is an issue because it means we have to overload the six yard box with defenders, and it then becomes far more difficult to win the second ball at the edge of the area.
Another obvious one is distribution. I happen to agree with both sides of the argument ongoing in this thread on that front. Alisson's wasn't even particularly immaculate yesterday, and it was still considerably better than De Gea's. The main issue here is that De Gea just cannot play against pressure. He always looks panicky when being pressed by an opponent and will nearly always go long. It then becomes much more difficult to slow the game down, and indeed relieve a bit of pressure, since it's very difficult to hold possession from those long kicks. In matches like yesterday, where there were times when we desperately needed to at least slow down their onslaught, that becomes quite a big problem.
I'll be honest, with all this said I'd still like us to keep Dave around next season. However, this comes with the caveat that another keeper is signed who can reasonably compete with him for the starting spot. I think whichever keeper we sign is going to need a grace period where they get used to the pressure of being United's number one, and I think Dave would be very handy in helping bridge that gap. I just don't think we can go on much longer having him as the undisputed number one keeper. There are too many flaws in his game.
Back-to-back games at Anfield:
13 shots on target
11 goals conceded
7-0 (8 shots on target)
4-0 (5 shots on target)
I hope that puts to bed any talk of De Gea being ‘The best shot-stopper in the World’.
For anyone wanting to defend De Gea’s recent performances at Anfield, I will simply say this:
The sooner we move on from De Gea, the better.
13 shots on target
11 goals conceded
7-0 (8 shots on target)
4-0 (5 shots on target)
I hope that puts to bed any talk of De Gea being ‘The best shot-stopper in the World’.
For anyone wanting to defend De Gea’s recent performances at Anfield, I will simply say this:
- He doesn’t organise his defence
- He doesn’t command his area
- He is easy to beat in one on one situations
- His weak distribution constantly invites pressure onto us
The sooner we move on from De Gea, the better.
Its not even a modern keeper trait. Its a good / great goalkeeper trait. Command of the area and the defence. DDG has been here for so long people forget what it was like to have VDS and Schmeichel here (or they werent around when we had them as its over ten years now).
You can minimize weaknesses by playing to strengths. But DDGs biggest strength used to be pulling of super saves. That is now rare (leicester) vs the norm. People are blinded by loyalty too much to see how much we lose out on other areas and how it piles up.
@Longshanks had a really good post on the other page, where you can see why situations happen due to the way DDG is. Players are defending positions deeper because of DDG (martinez came across DDG twice yesterday to try and defend, Dalot would rather mark the goal line, etc). The Darwin Nunez second goal, you should have your goal keeper pushing the defence out when the ball goes out to Henderson so that it leaves a big space for the goalkeeper to come out and take charge.
Communication, distribution, command of the area and organising the defence. This isnt modern goalkeeper traits. This is what you want from a strong top keeper when youre a top club. One or two might be weaker, but when they are all weak, it leads to things in front being a calamity.
If you’re conceding 7 goals from 8 shots on target then questions have got to be asked of the ‘keeper, regardless of how bad the defending in front of him was.
Been a fantastic servant over the years and I still believe he will be our No. 1 going forward next year, however yesterday he was bad. That goals conceded/ shots faced ratio is shocking.
Been a fantastic servant over the years and I still believe he will be our No. 1 going forward next year, however yesterday he was bad. That goals conceded/ shots faced ratio is shocking.
He needs to go. And I say this as someone with a huge amount of admiration for him. He’s been our best player this past decade and easily so. But he does not suit a progressive in this era.
Well at least people won’t post the we haven’t conceded goals after the first two games stat anymore. That was all taken care of yesterday
That is mental
What worries me is that we waste another season lumping it when pressed
Theres been a lot of talk recently in the media etc about his poor distribution, but thats nowhere near as bad as his lack of presence imo. I watched Liverpool yesterday holding their high line knowing that their keeper will claim every cross in the penalty box and sweep when he needs to. Our goalkeeper stands on his line for 90 mins while balls go into his 6 yard box.
And dont get me started on Liverpools third goal, somehow makes himself look smaller, should be taking Gakpo and the ball there.
And dont get me started on Liverpools third goal, somehow makes himself look smaller, should be taking Gakpo and the ball there.
It will improve our defensive record but we are not dominating teams and winning the league like City, Arsenal and Liverpool with that profile of keeper. Unless the competition weakens.
Thing is, the only people who ever say this kind of nonsense are the people defending De Gea. I've never seen the people who are genuinely critical of him say anything like this; it tends to be about his lack of area control, his inability to properly sweep behind a high line defence to the point that we just don't play a high line solely because of him, his refusal to make himself available when defenders are under pressure, the panic he instills in the defenders etc.
I was probably 10-15 yards behind the goal yesterday and the difference in goalkeepers was night & day, and that was in a game Alisson didn't even play particularly well. Sooner De Gea is moved on the better.
concedes a lot for a ‘world class shot stopper’.
Get rid, been banging the drum for 4 seasons now or so.
Get rid, been banging the drum for 4 seasons now or so.
Sounds harsh but I don't think we should be renewing. Give him the testimonial sendoff and thank him for his time, but he's definitely a weak link.
A GK upgrade is almost as needed as a CF for us if we are to go anywhere.
A GK upgrade is almost as needed as a CF for us if we are to go anywhere.
I don't think it's harsh at all. Every player, no matter how good they were in the past, comes to the end at a club at some point. It's only harsh if the club don't handle it well.
De Gea could potentially leave at the end of the season on the back of a couple of cup wins as the goalkeeper with most appearances in the history of the club, with everyone happily remembering his peak years. And on a free transfer he would inevitably end up at a good-standard club on a nice contract.
I think we're going to renew his contract, but if we didn't it could still be quite a graceful exit.
The world class shot stopper who has a save percentage of 66% this season (6th worst in the league) The only keepers who have saved less are Henderson, Ward, Ederson, Bazunu & Travers. He’s been past his best since 2018. He was never the same after the Russia WC. Spain realised this and promptly moved him on. We’re discussing giving him a new contract.
ouch!
That 3rd goal was bad, you can't get into that situation and make yourself smaller. The last 3 goals I did not even watch.
He needs replacing and that's due to poor form and also being on colossal wages. 350k and he hardly commands his box, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that he isn't value for money.
Needs to be replaced in the summer. If willing to drastically reduce his wages then we should try to convince him to stick around as the backup GK for a season or two, if not willing then give him his testimonial and a big thank you and best wishes for the future. Been a good servant to the club but we have to move on to a more modern and commanding GK.
I don't think we should keep him around as second choice regardless of wages
If our intention is to actually build play up from the back like a modern side then why keep around a backup that requires us to change how we play just to accomodate him?
I've been saying it for about 3-4 seasons. We need to find a replacement for him. People go on about him making saves but that's just part of the job isn't it?
I find it interesting yesterday was the game that made people realise or comment on him needing to be finally replaced.
Me, orange and jb7 have mentioned it after games he's been worse for us (but people over looked due to pulling of a save that was due to him). Think we also got a group nickname for this
This is why I keep saying criticising a weakness (and mentioning how the cons outweigh the pros) doesn't = agenda. That's been thrown around a lot recently in this thread (the biggest defence in his case seemed to be he makes saves others don't etc)
If arsenal win the title , ramsdale is yet another example of a manager coming in and getting a keeper he feels is more suitable to the style of play and thus benefiting
Pep replaced hart (and bravo)
Klopp replaced mignolet (and karius)
Arteta replaced Leno(and Martinez)
Replacing ddg with the right keeper will have huge benefits in lots of aspects
Me, orange and jb7 have mentioned it after games he's been worse for us (but people over looked due to pulling of a save that was due to him). Think we also got a group nickname for this
This is why I keep saying criticising a weakness (and mentioning how the cons outweigh the pros) doesn't = agenda. That's been thrown around a lot recently in this thread (the biggest defence in his case seemed to be he makes saves others don't etc)
If arsenal win the title , ramsdale is yet another example of a manager coming in and getting a keeper he feels is more suitable to the style of play and thus benefiting
Pep replaced hart (and bravo)
Klopp replaced mignolet (and karius)
Arteta replaced Leno(and Martinez)
Replacing ddg with the right keeper will have huge benefits in lots of aspects
Most people know we need to upgrade. Some just don't see it as more important than a striker cm and rb. At least most people anyway
They’d be wrong. Having a keeper suited to your style transforms your team instantly.
We clearly need to upgrade. But the idea that it magically makes our attackers score goals is quite silly when you see the kind of chances they squander. We could have easily had 3 - 4 goals yesterday if our attack wasnt so shite. Bruno and Antony kept giving the ball away, flopping around instead of going for it, and even Rashford was off his game.
We need a new keeper and striker, not either or.
his biggest problem is his personality - timidity, and I do think De Gea's timidity is infectious.
Thought I'd have a look at fbref to see if yesterday was his worst shot-stopping performance in recent times. Over the last 6 season, yep, it was the worst. He conceded 7 against a post-shot xG of 3.9, his worst in 6 years. He's now ranked 18th in the league at shot stopping.
However, I then noticed something else, which is that these bad performances are getting more frequent. I grabbed all his performances since 17-18 in the league and ranked them via post-shot xG. The two worst are both this season (City and Liverpool). 4 of his top 6 worst performances have come already this season, and 90% of his worst performances are in the last 3 seasons.
Looking past this season - between 2017 and 2020 he only underperformed his post-shot xG by more than 1 on 7 occasions. Since 2020 he's done it 25 times. You can dice these stats a lot of ways, but the upshot is pretty much the same, the bad performances are happening more and more often.
Another factor to consider is his best performances. Last season DDG finished with decent stats overall. Below is a count of his best performances by season.
So last season was best described as up and down, with some of his best and some of his worst performances sort of cancelling each other out. Unfortunately, this season the outstanding performances are drying up and the bad days at the office are becoming more frequent.
However, I then noticed something else, which is that these bad performances are getting more frequent. I grabbed all his performances since 17-18 in the league and ranked them via post-shot xG. The two worst are both this season (City and Liverpool). 4 of his top 6 worst performances have come already this season, and 90% of his worst performances are in the last 3 seasons.
| Season | No of performances in lowest ranked 10 |
| 17-18 | 0 |
| 18-19 | 1 |
| 19-20 | 0 |
| 20-21 | 3 |
| 21-22 | 2 |
| 22-23 | 4 |
Looking past this season - between 2017 and 2020 he only underperformed his post-shot xG by more than 1 on 7 occasions. Since 2020 he's done it 25 times. You can dice these stats a lot of ways, but the upshot is pretty much the same, the bad performances are happening more and more often.
Another factor to consider is his best performances. Last season DDG finished with decent stats overall. Below is a count of his best performances by season.
| Season | No of performances in highest ranked 10 |
| 17-18 | 4 |
| 18-19 | 1 |
| 19-20 | 0 |
| 20-21 | 1 |
| 21-22 | 4 |
| 22-23 | 0 |
So last season was best described as up and down, with some of his best and some of his worst performances sort of cancelling each other out. Unfortunately, this season the outstanding performances are drying up and the bad days at the office are becoming more frequent.
This is what I was talking about when I said he will concede some silly goals because he's been on the "lucky" end far too often recently. Was very unlikely that he would continue on this level until the end od the season.
He over performed recently but now is again in bottom 5 goalkeepers on shotstopping alone. Will do well to finish in "average" group.
The less said about the other aspects of his game the better.
He over performed recently but now is again in bottom 5 goalkeepers on shotstopping alone. Will do well to finish in "average" group.
The less said about the other aspects of his game the better.
I know that as a fan I don’t understand the technical aspects of keeping but surely someone needs to tell him to stop grabbing the post
Yeah, that’s a terrible habit he has. But not as terrible as his habit of never taking command of situations when the ball is in our six yard box. Goalkeeping 101.
You guys forced me to rewatch the goals from yesterday(thanks for that, by the way). The only mistake De Gea made was for the 7th goal. The 3rd goal was a 50/50, but Gackpo hit the only space that De Gea couldn't effectively cover from that angle. Had he got his right arm up in time, then it would have been a very good save. Far from a mistake in other words.
You know you've been destroyed when you lose 7-0 and the goalkeeper only was partly to blame for the 7th...
You know you've been destroyed when you lose 7-0 and the goalkeeper only was partly to blame for the 7th...
xG this and xG that.
1st goal (Gakpo): xG: 0,07 - xGOT: 0,55
2nd goal (Nunez): xG: 0,48 - xGOT: 0,73
3rd goal (Gakpo): xG: 0,21 - xGOT: 0,96
4th goal (Salah): xG: 0,30 - xGOT: 0,27
5th goal (Nunez): xG: 0,14 - xGOT: 0,26
6th goal (Salah): xG: 0,32 - xGOT: 0,67
7th goal (Firmino): xG: 0,27 - xGOT: 0,45
If we believe that post-shot/xGOT-stuff then Gakpo's 3rd goal only gives him -0,04 and Nunez' crazy header gives him -0,74, how is that usable stats at all?
1st goal (Gakpo): xG: 0,07 - xGOT: 0,55
2nd goal (Nunez): xG: 0,48 - xGOT: 0,73
3rd goal (Gakpo): xG: 0,21 - xGOT: 0,96
4th goal (Salah): xG: 0,30 - xGOT: 0,27
5th goal (Nunez): xG: 0,14 - xGOT: 0,26
6th goal (Salah): xG: 0,32 - xGOT: 0,67
7th goal (Firmino): xG: 0,27 - xGOT: 0,45
If we believe that post-shot/xGOT-stuff then Gakpo's 3rd goal only gives him -0,04 and Nunez' crazy header gives him -0,74, how is that usable stats at all?
Need a new keeper
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