Darwin Núñez | Liverpool player | Fighter

Maluco said:
He makes their team worse. He is not as good a footballer as Firmino/Mane, so he isn’t anywhere near as involved in build-up. It means you lose output on Salah too.

His pace is exciting to watch, which makes people hopeful, but his complete lack of composure and technique won’t be able to be taught now. It’s too late in his development for that. Even when he is passing someone, he is extremely hit and rush.

Pace and power will always give hope, but he is an overall detriment to the team and has added to their problems instead of resolving anything. They are now actively catering to someone who doesn’t put away chances. It’s extremely inefficient.
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Pogue Mahone said:
Same was true of Werner though?

I do agree that Nunez’ shitty all round game - especially his scattershot passing - gets ignored when you focus on stuff like shots and xG. And top teams can’t/shouldn’t accommodate strikers who give the ball away as much as he has so far this season.
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Nunez has had the worst season of the two finishing wise for sure (underperforming his xG by 47%), but Salah's had a mare of a season himself (underperforming his xG by 30%) and can mostly blame himself for his weak output. Salah with his 17/18 finishing (overperforming by 30%) would be on 13 goals now given his generated xG this season.
Can you guess which one of Nunez and Salah that has been dispossessed or given the ball away most per 90 minutes this season?
Clue: It isn't Nunez.

I agree of courses that Nunez is far from Salah in build up, dribbling and technique, but he is far better at getting into good goalscoring position and he is surprisingly good at setting up his teammates:

Nunez xA/90 (expected assists) this season is 0,36.

Here is Manè, Salah and Firmino's xA/90 numbers since 2018:

Manè: 0,15 - 0,24 - 0,25 - 0,17
Salah: 0,29 - 0,27 - 0,19 - 0,32 - 0,25
Firmino: 0,22 - 0,22 - 0,19 - 0,20 - 0,21
 
troylocker said:
Nunez has had the worst season of the two finishing wise for sure (underperforming his xG by 47%), but Salah's had a mare of a season himself (underperforming his xG by 30%) and can mostly blame himself for his weak output. Salah with his 17/18 finishing (overperforming by 30%) would be on 13 goals now given his generated xG this season.
Can you guess which one of Nunez and Salah that has been dispossessed or given the ball away most per 90 minutes this season?
Clue: It isn't Nunez.

I agree of courses that Nunez is far from Salah in build up, dribbling and technique, but he is far better at getting into good goalscoring position and he is surprisingly good at setting up his teammates:

Nunez xA/90 (expected assists) this season is 0,36.

Here is Manè, Salah and Firmino's xA/90 numbers since 2018:

Manè: 0,15 - 0,24 - 0,25 - 0,17
Salah: 0,29 - 0,27 - 0,19 - 0,32 - 0,25
Firmino: 0,22 - 0,22 - 0,19 - 0,20 - 0,21
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Salah seems to have been forced out wide to accommodate Nunez.

All great goalscorers need facilitators and Salah just doesn’t have that anymore. The chances are all Darwin on the counter and Salah is a lesser version of himself in this setup.

They have created an issue where there wasn’t one. Compound that with an aging and low energy midfield and a formerly top class CB who has lost a step and confidence after injury and they are digging their own hole.

The should have spent that Darwin money on two energetic midfielders to partner Thiago
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yet you have somehow included a lot of shit (well, not very good anyway) strikers in the list above…
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Sometimes "not very good" strikers have fluke seasons were they patch together a good run, but none of them has generated this kind of xG or very good numbers over mulitple seasons. I have included the 4-7 highest numbers for each league the last 9 seasons so you're bound to find some of those players in there.
 
troylocker said:
Sometimes "not very good" strikers have fluke seasons were they patch together a good run, but none of them has generated this kind of xG or very good numbers over mulitple seasons. I have included the 4-7 highest numbers for each league the last 9 seasons so you're bound to find some of those players in there.
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I see Antonio’s name cropping up a lot in your list but, more to the point, has Nunez generated numbers like this over multiple seasons?
 
Maluco said:
Salah seems to have been forced out wide to accommodate Nunez.

All great goalscorers need facilitators and Salah just doesn’t have that anymore. The chances are all Darwin on the counter and Salah is a lesser version of himself in this setup.

They have created an issue where there wasn’t one. Compound that with an aging and low energy midfield and a formerly top class CB who has lost a step and confidence after injury and they are digging their own hole.

The should have spent that Darwin money on two energetic midfielders to partner Thiago
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Darwin has a higher xA/90 than all Salah's former strikepartners (Mane and Firmino). Nunez 0,36 xA/90, Diaz 0,21 xA/90, Firmino 0,21xA/90
Salah's npxG/90 since he came to Liverpool:
0,77 (his record 32 goals season) - 0,54 - 0,57 - 0,46 - 0,65 and 0,59 so far this season and his xA is around average for his time at Liverpool. He's just missing more chances and has lost some of his flair.
Look at his dribbling stat's since 17/18:
Season - Successful dribbles/90 - Attempted dribbles/90 - successrate (%)
17/18 - 2,45 - 3,85 - 63%
18/19 - 2,22 - 4,18 - 53%
19/20 - 1,56 - 2,59 - 60%
20/21 - 1,05 - 2,46 - 43%
21/22 - 1,73 - 4,04 - 43%
22/23 - 1,07 - 3,47 - 31%

He's not the player he was and it's hard to blaim Nunez for his decline.

They are terrible in defense this season (conceded 26 goals the entire season 21/22 and is already on 22 this season), struggles to break down oppo counters and when both Salah and Nunez can't hit the target it's hard to win footballmatches.
They need new players all over the pitch.

Long may it continue like this.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I see Antonio’s name cropping up a lot in your list but, more to the point, has Nunez generated numbers like this over multiple seasons?
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If this is how you read that list, you're doing it wrong.

Antonio had 2 seasons where he averaged 0,64 npxG/90 (That was the peak of his career)
There is literally a 100 names on that list with a higher npxG.

Nunez is on 0,97 npxG right now while also averaging 0,36 xA. It's two completely different worlds.

The list shows you that over the last 9 seasons only Mbappe and Lewandowski and no one in the PL has managed to produce better numbers over a season than Nunez has so far this season. Yet you manage to get tangled up in the fact that there are names among the top 100 players that are not world class? Ignoring the fact that their numbers are miles behind.

If Nunez can do it consistantly is yet to be seen, since this is his first season in a top 5 league.
 
troylocker said:
First: No one is argueing that his finishing has been terrible this season

Second: His ability to get into good scoring positions and make good runs is second to only a handful if any. His 0,97 npxG/90 is just off the charts in the PL, meaning he's getting to more and better chances than anyone who's played in the PL since my sources started calculating xG (2014/2015) season and anyone in the top 5 leagues this season. You don't get these numbers by just being the main man in a top side, he get's them because he has absolute elite movement, spacial awareness and is fantastic at identifying spaces and making/timing runs.

Here's the top npxG/90 (non penalty expected goals) numbers for the top 5 leagues the last 9 seasons (for players with 1000 minutes or more over a season) See if you can find any "main man in top sides" in here:

PL:
14/15 - Aguero 0,73, Cissè 0,65, Costa 0,65, Sturridge 0,54, Bony 0,54 and Kane 0,52
15/16 - Aguero 0,61, Benteke 0,55, Walcott 0,55, Lukaku 0,52, Grioud 0,51, Kane 0,50 and Vardy 0,50
16/17 - Aguero 0,71, Giroud 0,54, KAne 0,54, Afobe 0,51, Ayew 0,48, Zlatan 0,46 and Lukaku 0,44
17/18 - Jesus 0,74, Salah 0,72, Kane 0,71, Aguero 0,70, Auba 0,65, Sterling 0,63 and Niasse 0,62
18/19 - Aguero 0,66, Auba 0,65, Lukaku 0,56, Salah 0,54, Chicha 0,51, Sterling 0,51 and Wilson 0,51
19/20 - Jesus 0,90, Aguero 0,82, Tammy 0,73, Giroud 0,66, Antonio 0,64 Sterling 0,61, Woods 0,60 and Salah 0,57
20/21 - Antonio 0,64, Cavani 0,57, Jota 0,57, DCL 0,57, Kane 0,56, Tammy 0,54 and Iheanacho 0,51
21/22 - Jota 0,65, Salah 0,65, Sterling 0,57, Ronaldo 0,54, Mane 0,53, Welbeck 0,5, Son 0,50, Vardy 0,50 and Kane 0,49
22/23 - Nunez 0,97, Haaland 0,94, Wilson 0,69, Jesus 0,69, Toney 0,68, Firmino 0,60, Awoniyi 0,59, Salah 0,59, Kane 0,53 and Mitro 0,48

LaLiga:
14/15 - Ronaldo 0,88, Messi 0,84, Neymar 0,77, Suarez 0,60...Griezmann 0,53... Benzema 0,48
15/16 - Benzema 0,93 ,Suarez 0,92, Ronaldo 0,82, Agirretxe 0,75, Messi 0,72, Miku 0,70 and Neymar 0,67
16/17 - Suarez 0,75, Messi 0,69, Ronaldo 0,69, Morata 0,65, Benzema 0,63...Neymar 0,46
17/18 - Ronaldo 0,94, Messi 0,78, Suarez 0,76, Ben Yedder 0,67.....Benzema 0,52
18/19 - Messi 0,74, Suarez 0,68, Morata 0,61, Ben Yedder 0,56....Benzema 0,50
19/20 - Suarez 0,60, Morata 0,54, Messi 0,54, Josè 0,52, Isak 0,51, Benzema 0,50
20/21 - Messi 0,68, En-Nesyri 0,62, Isak 0,59, Benzema 0,58 and Suarez 0,55
21/22 - Auba 0,72, Danjuma 0,64, Cunha 0,64, Benzema 0,57 and Vinicius 0,48
22/23 - Benzema 0,94, Lewa 0,89, Torres 0,71, Sorloth 0,66 and Rodrygo 0,55

Bundesliga:
14/15 - Dost 0,67, Ginczek 0,62, Lewa 0,61, Modeste 0,56....Auba 0,46
15/16 - Lewa 0,91, Auba 0,91, Muto 0,54, Müller 0,50 and Werner 0,49
16/17 - Auba 0,91, Lewa 0,85, Petersen 0,57, Reus 0,56....Werner 0,48
17/18 - Lewa 0,94, Auba 0,86, Wagner 0,51....Werner 0,43
18/19 - Lewa 0,92, Alcàcer 0,72, Kramaric 0,63, Jovic 0,62 and Werner 0,59
19/20 - Lewa 0,89, Haaland 0,75, Werner 0,67, Silva 0,62 and Gnabry 0,57
20/21 - Lewa 0,92, Haaland 0,77, Mateta 0,68, Silva 0,66 and Weghorst 0,48
21/22 - Lewa 1,04, Schick 0,78, Haaland 0,59, Poulsen 0,55, Awoniyi 0,54 and Silva 0,53
22/23 - Thuram 0,73, Werner 0,68, Manè 0,66, Gnabry 0,62, Moukoko 0,60 and Nkunku 0,56

Serie A:
14/15 - Klose 0,56, Maxi 0,54 Higuain 0,51 and Icardi 0,50
15/16 - Higuain 0,75, Kalinic 0,58, Dzeko 0,55 and Zapata 0,49
16/17 - Dzeko 0,89, Mertens 0,80, Higuain 0,59 and Icardi 0,52
17/18 - Lasagna 0,54, Icardi 0,53, Cutrone 0,53, Dzeko 0,51 and Immobile 0,51
18/19 - Ronaldo 0,63, Zapata 0,59, Dzeko 0,53 and Milik 0,52
19/20 - Dzeko 0,67, Zapata 0,66, Ronaldo 0,60 and Zlatan 0,60
20/21 - Muriel 0,90, Ronaldo 0,76, Zlatan 0,70, Dzeko 0,66 and Zapata 0,65
21/22 - Martinez 0,77, Zapata 0,68, Dzeko 0,60, Kean 0,58 and Osimhen 0,57
22/23 - Osimhen 0,90, Dzeko 0,68, Tammy 0,61 and Giroud 0,59

Ligue 1:
14/15 - Cavani 0,69, Zlatan 0,54, N'Jie 0,50....Martial 0,46
15/16 - Zlatan 0,84, Cavani 0,73, Lacazette 0,57 and Batshuayi 0,52
16/17 - Cavani 0,93, Plea 0,65, Depay 0,58...Falcao 0,54, Lacazette 0,50, Mbappe 0,50
17/18 - Cavani 0,71, Neymar 0,68, Mbappe 0,59 and di Maria 0,54 (Balanced league?)
18/19 - Mbappe 1,09, Dembele 0,66, Cavani 0,62....Neymar 0,50
19/20 - Mbappe 0,98, Icardi 0,82 and Neymar 0,74
20/21 - Mbappe 0,69, Icardi 0,67, Ekambi 0,57, Kean 0,56 and Neymar 0,55
21/22 - Dembele 0,76, Mbappe 0,65, Icardi 0,64 and Diallo 0,55
22/23 - Mbappe 0,67, Messi 0,66, Openda 0,63 and Neymar 0,55

Only 3 times (Lewa x 1 and Mbappe x 2) has a player in a top 5 league generated more npxG/90 than Nunez has this season since 2014.
When you add his 0,36 xA/90 it is really extraordinary numbers. You don't produce these numbers being a shit striker. Right now he has every tool in his box except the finishing.
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But Liverpool are a top team, they’ll play anybody they have up front into goal scoring positions if they have a bit of pace.
My example is Ronaldo. He’s past it right? not mobile at all, everything that made him special is gone.
Well look at his stats, look at what percentile each stat lies in.
https://footystats.org/players/portugal/cristiano-ronaldo
If you see where we are in the league and how we play without him, we are a top 3 team imo. Having that Ronaldo up front for us is a better example of having a donkey up top in an elite side and seeing how many chances that elite side can afford him. Turns out it’s a lot.
Everything was weighted towards Ronaldo the same way it’s weighted towards Nunez. They aren’t getting chances because of some kind of elite movement, it’s because these teams can find these players in most situations.
Im actually coming around to XG but feck me Nunez is costing them points after points with his erratic finishing is not a way to promote the uses of these stats
 
Even domino’s are getting in on the jokes :lol: ‘Sorry if we’ve missed any orders tonight, we had this guy starting’:lol:
 
troylocker said:
Darwin has a higher xA/90 than all Salah's former strikepartners (Mane and Firmino). Nunez 0,36 xA/90, Diaz 0,21 xA/90, Firmino 0,21xA/90
Salah's npxG/90 since he came to Liverpool:
0,77 (his record 32 goals season) - 0,54 - 0,57 - 0,46 - 0,65 and 0,59 so far this season and his xA is around average for his time at Liverpool. He's just missing more chances and has lost some of his flair.
Look at his dribbling stat's since 17/18:
Season - Successful dribbles/90 - Attempted dribbles/90 - successrate (%)
17/18 - 2,45 - 3,85 - 63%
18/19 - 2,22 - 4,18 - 53%
19/20 - 1,56 - 2,59 - 60%
20/21 - 1,05 - 2,46 - 43%
21/22 - 1,73 - 4,04 - 43%
22/23 - 1,07 - 3,47 - 31%

He's not the player he was and it's hard to blaim Nunez for his decline.

They are terrible in defense this season (conceded 26 goals the entire season 21/22 and is already on 22 this season), struggles to break down oppo counters and when both Salah and Nunez can't hit the target it's hard to win footballmatches.
They need new players all over the pitch.

Long may it continue like this.
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That is a nice post and I appreciate the stats, but there is much more to the game than direct stats and Xg/Xa. There was a lot of hard work and sacrifice from both Mane and Firmino to let Salah get into the right positions at the right moments.

There is definite decline, sure, but he is also being paired with players whose skill sets aren’t set up to maximize his own.
 
Brwned said:
What makes you think he’ll turn out differently to Werner?
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In my opinion, Nunez looks better. And he has already produced better numbers than Werner. Werner only scored 4 &6 goals per PL season, while Nunez, already at 5 goals (0.5/90 min), is pretty much on par with our best goal scorer this season (Rashford, 6 goals, 0.5/90 min).

The reason I think he might become “leathal” is because he creates a lot with his runs and there is not much missing from where he is now goal scoring wise, to be scoring a lot more. It might be he is missing a little of required skills, adapting to the PL, or just needing to get some goals to get in the zone. Or all three.
 
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crossy1686 said:
Liverpool are lobbying for the rules to be changed so from now on it's goal scoring situations that count and not actual goals, that way they win every game by 10 clear 'goals'.

Until that happens however, that stat means absolutely feck all.
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sizzling sausages said:
Vini Jr wasn't hitting shots out for throw ins every game though. He was also about 3 or 4 years younger than Nunez when he was struggling with his shooting.
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Bondi77 said:
You can....I certainly won't :lol:
If goal scoring was about hard effort and getting in positions a lot more would be doing it but the art of finishing is the art of goal scoring and this guy does not have the technique or more importantly the composure for it.
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cyberman said:
Let me ask you ask this and be as truthful as you can, in what way can you coach this?


The technique is so bad that it’s almost from scratch. You may as well take any striker who has a bit of pace about them and teach them how to finish, there’s nothing there that says Nunez will develop in any significant way
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From the bottom of my heart I wish you all to be right, but my instinct is telling me a different story.

Let us hope we can all keep laughing at him.
 
Just Hope said:
From the bottom of my heart I wish you all to be right, but my instinct is telling me a different story.

Let us hope we can all keep laughing at him.
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Did you get the same feeling when you first saw Bebe in action or is that before your time?
 
bringbackbebe said:
Shots resulting in a throw-in is very reminiscent
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Lots of power as well and Bebe did score a lot of goals in it was either the Spanish or Portuguese League not long afterwards so it is not beyond the realms of possibility.
 
In a way he is like Werner, misses so many chances but always ends up getting lot of them. Fluffs lot of shots, scores offside goals.
 
At this point I'm delighted that there are still many fans who think he's a fantastic forward for Liverpool.
 
He’s very quick and misses a load. Law of averages says he’ll start scoring.
 
troylocker said:
Darwin has a higher xA/90 than all Salah's former strikepartners (Mane and Firmino). Nunez 0,36 xA/90, Diaz 0,21 xA/90, Firmino 0,21xA/90
Salah's npxG/90 since he came to Liverpool:
0,77 (his record 32 goals season) - 0,54 - 0,57 - 0,46 - 0,65 and 0,59 so far this season and his xA is around average for his time at Liverpool. He's just missing more chances and has lost some of his flair.
Look at his dribbling stat's since 17/18:
Season - Successful dribbles/90 - Attempted dribbles/90 - successrate (%)
17/18 - 2,45 - 3,85 - 63%
18/19 - 2,22 - 4,18 - 53%
19/20 - 1,56 - 2,59 - 60%
20/21 - 1,05 - 2,46 - 43%
21/22 - 1,73 - 4,04 - 43%
22/23 - 1,07 - 3,47 - 31%

He's not the player he was and it's hard to blaim Nunez for his decline.

They are terrible in defense this season (conceded 26 goals the entire season 21/22 and is already on 22 this season), struggles to break down oppo counters and when both Salah and Nunez can't hit the target it's hard to win footballmatches.
They need new players all over the pitch.

Long may it continue like this.
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This is a very good assessment and I'd say you've nailed it. Our defence and even Salah himself have definitely become a problem for us. We can blame midfield too, but that doesn't change the facts you've just stated.
 
cyberman said:
My example is Ronaldo. He’s past it right? not mobile at all, everything that made him special is gone.
Well look at his stats, look at what percentile each stat lies in.
https://footystats.org/players/portugal/cristiano-ronaldo
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mate, you are bad at interpreting stats. Other than shots taken, every other number and percentile there is *BAD* for a striker

And no, finishing isn't the be all end all of strikers, aside from a few anomalies - Messi, Haaland, Gabriel Jesus - most every player is average at finishing. Lewandowski? Average. Cristiano Ronaldo? Average. Aguero? Average. Etc..

So, yeah, Darwin might be a genuinely bad finisher right now. This might be a bad run, or a deeper technical problem. Bad runs end, and technical problems can be worked through. If the rest of his game holds at this level, you better pray real hard this is a not just a bad run and never improves
 
I wonder how many people in here that are laughing at all Nunez's missed chances and our saying he doesn't add much to the team other than popping in with a few goals are also over in the Rashford thread calling him world class and claiming Mbappe isn't fit to lace his boots.
 
Strootman's Finger said:
I wonder how many people in here that are laughing at all Nunez's missed chances and our saying he doesn't add much to the team other than popping in with a few goals are also over in the Rashford thread calling him world class and claiming Mbappe isn't fit to lace his boots.
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That would be the grand total of zero.
 
Strootman's Finger said:
I wonder how many people in here that are laughing at all Nunez's missed chances and our saying he doesn't add much to the team other than popping in with a few goals are also over in the Rashford thread calling him world class and claiming Mbappe isn't fit to lace his boots.
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Rashford is better than Nunez.
 
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