Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player

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Twigginater said:
I don't see it as that.

I see it as "60 million on another transfer and keep Welbeck v what we have now2
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Everyone's entitled to their view but really at times don't understand fans. We've signed one of the top strikers in the world and people are unhappy cause we let a Manchester lad who wanted to go from last season leave? I'm not bothered how much he cost cause it's not my overdraft that's paying for it.

Ask Terry or Kompany who they'd rather be marking over 90 mins?
 
I personaly am one of the people that were really against letting Danny go and I haven't changed my stance on the mather. Yes he might not have scored a ton of goals for us, but how many times has he actually been given a decent run in the striker position for us? He was constantly being shifted and played out of position to accomodate others. If you ask me, there's a real danger he might turn out to be "Sturridge 2.0" in that he'll score for fun at Arsenal due to being utilized properly.
And yeah, ok, he's a striker and scoring goals is a priority so it's kind of a silly question...but ask yourself this, apart from goal scoring have people really got much, if anything to complain about when it comes to Welbeck?
 
Wilson Litchmore said:
Everyone's entitled to their view but really at times don't understand fans. We've signed one of the top strikers in the world and people are unhappy cause we let a Manchester lad who wanted to go from last season leave? I'm not bothered how much he cost cause it's not my overdraft that's paying for it.

Ask Terry or Kompany who they'd rather be marking over 90 mins?
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I feel that given a starting role up front as a striker he'll be up there with the best strikers in the league
 
So glad we sold him, we needed to do improve the quality of our squad if we had ambition to compete and he was not good enough.
 
Arsenal already look a more difficult team to play against with Welbeck up there harassing defenders every second of the game. As for the chances he's missed recently many of them were due to his intelligence and positioning, I'm sure he'd have got less criticism if he wasn't even in position to create a chance for himself?

Also people seem to be trying to justify this mistake by acting like a simpleton "Football is about your strikers kicking the ball into the net" yet Hernandez was very good at that and those same people were happy we moved him on too?
 
Manucho the boss said:
Arsenal already look a more difficult team to play against with Welbeck up there harassing defenders every second of the game. As for the chances he's missed recently many of them were due to his intelligence and positioning, I'm sure he'd have got less criticism if he wasn't even in position to create a chance for himself?

Also people seem to be trying to justify this mistake by acting like a simpleton "Football is about your strikers kicking the ball into the net" yet Hernandez was very good at that and those same people were happy we moved him on too?
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TBF I understand your frustration, when Welbeck was sold i was livid. Could not understand how United could make such a foolish move. But as time passed i thought to myself, outside being a product of our youth academy and having outstanding work rate what else does he offer for us? Now i for one believe Falcao will score a load of goals for us and we will notice quickly the vast improvement in our chances to goals conversion stats.

Now i'm not saying without Welbeck we will score over 100 goals in the league but having proven quality in the squad will show everyone how low our expectations from our strikers had become. You might say the view of not scoring enough goals is simplistic but at a top club you have to have both, the ability to score goals and be good outside the box. Thats exactly why Rooney/RvP have been starters for us the last 2 seasons when fit.

Had Welbeck had half the composure in front of goal as those two he would still be at the club. Likewise if Hernandez was half as good as them in the build up play he would still be here. Standards during SAFs later years were allowed to fall dramatically vs a few years earlier, I dont blame him because in that time we serviced the debt (and reduced it dramatically) while still winning things but we (as a top club) shouldnt be content with only having strikers who arent the complete package. Same can be said of our midfield, we spent ages with Cleverley/Fletcher/Anderson that once we got players like Blind and Herrera who can play a forward ball we look a different team.
 
OneUnited24 said:
I still think Veron came to us a few seasons too soon, had he come to us later we probably would have utilised him better.
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He was ahead of his time when you think about it. He came in an era when English football had no idea what to do with a deep lying playmaker. Your deep midfielder was a tackler, and your playmaker was an attacking midfielder. Veron just didn't fit.

Stick Veron in a 4-2-3-1 alongside Blind, with the movement of Di Maria, Mata, Rooney and Falcao up front, and he'd cause absolute havoc.
 
bishblaize said:
He was ahead of his time when you think about it. He came in an era when English football had no idea what to do with a deep lying playmaker. Your deep midfielder was a tackler, and your playmaker was an attacking midfielder. Veron just didn't fit.

Stick Veron in a 4-2-3-1 alongside Blind, with the movement of Di Maria, Mata, Rooney and Falcao up front, and he'd cause absolute havoc.
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What are you saying, Veron was too good for English football?

He had the odd moment of class but ultimately failed here and with Chelsea. Undoubted talent though, sometimes it just doesn't work for some players over here despite their ability, look at Kagawa or further back Forlan.
 
bishblaize said:
He was ahead of his time when you think about it. He came in an era when English football had no idea what to do with a deep lying playmaker. Your deep midfielder was a tackler, and your playmaker was an attacking midfielder. Veron just didn't fit.

Stick Veron in a 4-2-3-1 alongside Blind, with the movement of Di Maria, Mata, Rooney and Falcao up front, and he'd cause absolute havoc.
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Ahead of his time? Try piss poor.
 
Manucho the boss said:
What are you saying, Veron was too good for English football?

He had the odd moment of class but ultimately failed here and with Chelsea. Undoubted talent though, sometimes it just doesn't work for some players over here despite their ability, look at Kagawa or further back Forlan.
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Not sure how you'd extrapolate saying he was 'too good'. He couldn't do what was needed to succeed in the English league. That means not good enough.

However I'm pointing out that the game has changed, and in the current game he'd probably fit really well. The way football is played now would get the most from his strengths, while his weaknesses would be less of a problem.
 
bishblaize said:
Not sure how you'd extrapolate saying he was 'too good'. He couldn't do what was needed to succeed in the English league. That means not good enough.

However I'm pointing out that the game has changed, and in the current game he'd probably fit really well. The way football is played now would get the most from his strengths, while his weaknesses would be less of a problem.
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If he couldn't do it alongside the best CM we've ever had then I don't think (1 game against QPR) Danny Blind would have made that much of a difference.
 
SteveW said:
Raoul suggested Welbeck doesn't strengthen Arsenal. That's what I was responding to. How is Falcao relevant to that?
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You said Falcao was "clouding people's judgment". For me you can't look at a player in isolation. Football is a squad game. A players usefulness depends on what's he's up against.

He strengthens Arsenal because he's better than Sanogo with Giroud injured but no more than that.

He wanted to go and to go to Arsenal. All the club can do is refuse to sell him and keep an unhappy player who knows he isn't going to play. That's the reality. I don't see any point in keeping a player you don't want and causing unrest.
 
RedRover said:
You said Falcao was "clouding people's judgment". For me you can't look at a player in isolation. Football is a squad game. A players usefulness depends on what's he's up against.

He strengthens Arsenal because he's better than Sanogo with Giroud injured but no more than that.

He wanted to go and to go to Arsenal. All the club can do is refuse to sell him and keep an unhappy player who knows he isn't going to play. That's the reality. I don't see any point in keeping a player you don't want and causing unrest.
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It is clouding people judgement. We've just strengthened a direct rival. Usually pretty much every United fan would be annoyed that we have made Arsenal a better team. However at the moment many aren't bothered about that because they're all giddy about getting Falcao.

The reality is we didn't have to sell him to Arsenal. Just in the same way we didn't sell Heinze to Liverpool. We could have sold or loaned him to a different club or even held onto him if he wasn't willing to move anywhere else. It was poor strategy and I sincerely hope it doesn't bite us on the ass at the end of the season.
 
"It's not a question of potential, it is more a nervous problem because in training he scores goals like a real striker.

"He rushed his finishing until now because he didn't score."
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Wenger on Welbeck.
 
He was brilliant against Aston Villa. He dropped deep when needed, linked up really well and his ability to keep possession under pressure from the defender was fantastic. He didn't misplace a pass and seemed to know when to push off after a pass, and ran into dangerous areas.

Hopefully the goal will give him confidence, though he looked like he was playing with some so far.

http://arsenalist.com/f/2014-15/villa-vs-arsenal/danny-welbeck-vs-aston-villa.html
 
MUFCpiffgawd said:
Wenger on Welbeck.
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I recalled a lot of training videos where Welbeck shows quality finishing. I would say that it has more to do with decisiveness and positioning than being nervous as the reason why he can not consistently emulate such finishes in real time matches.

Nevertheless, for all the talk that Van Gaal has about a player not being United standard, I am sure a vast majority of United fans would rather have Welbeck in our starting eleven than Van Persie. If not the vast, the intelligent members of our fans. Watching varney play for leceister, I rather have an industrous striker who is capable of scoring goals, then a striker who is world class in status, but barely works hard for the team. The latter, if the other area of the team is balanced properly.
 
Both Rooney and Van Persie looked as if they were playing in a seniors' tournament.
 
The really bloody annoying thing about selling Welbeck is that the football that LVG seems to be trying to get us to play is the exact kind of football that suits Welbeck's game down to a tee.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
He was brilliant against Aston Villa. He dropped deep when needed, linked up really well and his ability to keep possession under pressure from the defender was fantastic. He didn't misplace a pass and seemed to know when to push off after a pass, and ran into dangerous areas.

Hopefully the goal will give him confidence, though he looked like he was playing with some so far.

http://arsenalist.com/f/2014-15/villa-vs-arsenal/danny-welbeck-vs-aston-villa.html
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peterstorey said:
Both Rooney and Van Persie looked as if they were playing in a seniors' tournament.
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Please go away :(
 
Given that Olly was out til January, Long John Silver would have been hailed as our saviour at centreforward.
 
Falcao wasn't bought(sorry, loaned) because van Gaal didn't trust Welbeck. He must not have trusted Rooney and van Persie to deliver what is needed. Why else would we focus on bringing in a striker rather than defender on deadline day? With all three, Welbeck became surplus.
 
SteveW said:
It is clouding people judgement. We've just strengthened a direct rival. Usually pretty much every United fan would be annoyed that we have made Arsenal a better team. However at the moment many aren't bothered about that because they're all giddy about getting Falcao.

The reality is we didn't have to sell him to Arsenal. Just in the same way we didn't sell Heinze to Liverpool. We could have sold or loaned him to a different club or even held onto him if he wasn't willing to move anywhere else. It was poor strategy and I sincerely hope it doesn't bite us on the ass at the end of the season.
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You keep saying "we didnt have to sell him to Arsenal" - that's obvious. They can't compel us to do anything. The issue you keep ignoring is the fact that a player makes the ultimate choice where he goes.

Danny Welbeck had the chance to move to another team playing in the Champions League. That opprotunity was based on them not having a forward at the moment and being desperate for cover, rather than his being a supreme talent. He is evidently not going to turn down that chance and did all he could to force the move. The truth is, where a player says "I'm only going there and I'm not going on loan" that puts the club in a very difficult, if not impossible position. The only alternative is to keep an unhappy player which causes all sorts of problems.
 
RedRover said:
You keep saying "we didnt have to sell him to Arsenal" - that's obvious. They can't compel us to do anything. The issue you keep ignoring is the fact that a player makes the ultimate choice where he goes.

Danny Welbeck had the chance to move to another team playing in the Champions League. That opprotunity was based on them not having a forward at the moment and being desperate for cover, rather than his being a supreme talent. He is evidently not going to turn down that chance and did all he could to force the move. The truth is, where a player says "I'm only going there and I'm not going on loan" that puts the club in a very difficult, if not impossible position. The only alternative is to keep an unhappy player which causes all sorts of problems.
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As much as it would have hurt Danny, selling him or even loaning him (even worse actually) to Arsenal was to the detriment of United. Arsenal were staring at months with Yaya fecking Sanogo as their lead strker and we handed them a way out.
 
Blodssvik said:
Falcao wasn't bought(sorry, loaned) because van Gaal didn't trust Welbeck. He must not have trusted Rooney and van Persie to deliver what is needed. Why else would we focus on bringing in a striker rather than defender on deadline day? With all three, Welbeck became surplus.
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Well isn't that the 60 million dollar question. Many more games for Arsenal and United like the ones we watched this weekend and it will look like an exceedingly silly decision.
 
akash02 said:
As much as it would have hurt Danny, selling him or even loaning him (even worse actually) to Arsenal was to the detriment of United. Arsenal were staring at months with Yaya fecking Sanogo as their lead strker and we handed them a way out.
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It seems the club wanted him to go out on loan, and also didnt want him to go to Arsenal - if you believe the talk anyway. Clearly the club were left with little option once Arsenal came in and the player explicitly wanted a permanent move there, rather than be frozen out here which was certain to happen with Falcao coming in.

Its easy for fans to say "we shouldn't have sold him to Arsenal" - the reality is the club has to handle a very difficult situation, hopefully to everyone's benefit. He obviously (and understandably) didnt want to go anywhere else. Anyone who thinks he'd be willing to be loaned out to a mid table side is dreaming. For me unhappy players at a club can be toxic so it was the right move to get him off the books.

And if we're relying on finishing top 4 by virtue of other sides not strengthening then we're in bigger trouble than we thought.
 
RedRover said:
It seems the club wanted him to go out on loan, and also didnt want him to go to Arsenal - if you believe the talk anyway. Clearly the club were left with little option once Arsenal came in and the player explicitly wanted a permanent move there, rather than be frozen out here which was certain to happen with Falcao coming in.

Its easy for fans to say "we shouldn't have sold him to Arsenal" - the reality is the club has to handle a very difficult situation, hopefully to everyone's benefit. He obviously (and understandably) didnt want to go anywhere else. Anyone who thinks he'd be willing to be loaned out to a mid table side is dreaming. For me unhappy players at a club can be toxic so it was the right move to get him off the books.

And if we're relying on finishing top 4 by virtue of other sides not strengthening then we're in bigger trouble than we thought.
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Better to keep an unhappy player in your squad than reinforcing your main rival for the season.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
He was brilliant against Aston Villa. He dropped deep when needed, linked up really well and his ability to keep possession under pressure from the defender was fantastic. He didn't misplace a pass and seemed to know when to push off after a pass, and ran into dangerous areas.

Hopefully the goal will give him confidence, though he looked like he was playing with some so far.

http://arsenalist.com/f/2014-15/villa-vs-arsenal/danny-welbeck-vs-aston-villa.html
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I don't think confidence was ever much a problem for Danny. He always tries his little flicks and chips. He isn't scared to push his team forward. The only lack of confidence in him might be in front of goal, but he simply has to play up front more to sort that out.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
He was brilliant against Aston Villa. He dropped deep when needed, linked up really well and his ability to keep possession under pressure from the defender was fantastic. He didn't misplace a pass and seemed to know when to push off after a pass, and ran into dangerous areas.

Hopefully the goal will give him confidence, though he looked like he was playing with some so far.

http://arsenalist.com/f/2014-15/villa-vs-arsenal/danny-welbeck-vs-aston-villa.html
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All-round brilliant match from him I agree. The "issue" is that he's such an all round player who will be found playing as a winger at times, falling deep and generally working too hard for the team. Very often Welbeck was involved with the build up play, or he was looking for the final pass/cross himself. With Welbeck not inside the box, the other has to take the job of entering the box otherwise it is pointless for him to leave it.

He certainly looked to be in a free role up front, so I think the issue was more with the rest of the players not being too used to the fact that the striker dropped out wide as a winger - and they didn't make the run they had to, to take his place inside the box. I think Walcott will be a huge addition in regards to this, as will Sanchez. You don't want Ozil being the one making the runs in to the box as he's so important in his playmaking role.

I can see Welbeck/Walcott/Sanchez all lifting each others levels as two of them loves scoring goals and one is a striker who loves to change position.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
He was brilliant against Aston Villa. He dropped deep when needed, linked up really well and his ability to keep possession under pressure from the defender was fantastic. He didn't misplace a pass and seemed to know when to push off after a pass, and ran into dangerous areas.

Hopefully the goal will give him confidence, though he looked like he was playing with some so far.

http://arsenalist.com/f/2014-15/villa-vs-arsenal/danny-welbeck-vs-aston-villa.html
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Yeah he was fantastic against Villa, he looked sharp and linked up very well with the players around him (Ozil in particular).

Like I've mentioned before has great work rate as well, makes it difficult for them to easy pass out of the back.
 
If Danny Welbeck is a reinforcement for Arsenal, that says a lot about their team than anything else. Welbeck is average at best.
 
girish said:
If Danny Welbeck is a reinforcement for Arsenal, that says a lot about their team than anything else. Welbeck is average at best.
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They needed a striker and got one. Sounds like an improvement to me; doesn't matter how small it seems and it's not like they went out and bought a totally inexperienced player. He's still 22/23 and has a lot more growing to do in his position. Also, given the fact that Wenger does really well with young players like him, he can only get better if he's given the confidence and opportunity to do so. Sometimes all a player needs is a chance and a manager to believe in him.
 
Il Prete Rosso said:
They needed a striker and got one. Sounds like an improvement to me; doesn't matter how small it seems and it's not like they went out and bought a totally inexperienced player. He's still 22/23 and has a lot more growing to do in his position. Also, given the fact that Wenger does really well with young players like him, he can only get better if he's given the confidence and opportunity to do so. Sometimes all a player needs is a chance and a manager to believe in him.
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...and you're basing the improvement on the player. It's about giving a team what they needed and Utd gave them (Arsenal) that...a striker.
 
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