An incorrect figure of speech in this particular context.
Ronaldo (Brazilian) for Madrid at Old Trafford .. that is tearing a team to shreds.
Welbeck doing a decent job against Madrid .. not so much.
Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player
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Ronaldo (Brazilian) for Madrid at Old Trafford .. that is tearing a team to shreds.
Welbeck doing a decent job against Madrid .. not so much.
Seeing him last night fluffing chances just underlines that the time was indeed right for him, he will always create those chances with his pace and movement but unless he starts polishing them off with an almost ratio double of his current then even at a lowly 16m it's not bad business.
So he fluffed some chances and there are some people here gloating. The guys who were mad at this transfer now have to defend him. In a few weeks, he'll score a hat trick and then the guys who were originally mad at the transfer will bump up this thread with 'I told you so'. Now the guys who are gloating will look for reasons to downplay the hat trick (It's only QPR man).
This will go on forever.
This will go on forever.
Well yeah. All of this has been stated numerous times. Various factors have contributed to this thread being stuck in a perpetual loop for the forseeable future.
Didn't he had a goalscoring run last season when Rooney was injuted and he was fairly regularly playing up top?
He did indeed. Started 10 games in a row and knocked in 6 goals.
It's not clear the point if the second-guessing is.
Danny seems destined to be a productive striker in the prem but nothing all that special. Falcao is vastly superior. Given the situation we found ourselves in at the beginning of the season we had to go with known quality over potential.
Who in their right mind would pass up on Falcao because we already had Welbeck? No one.
The greater mystery is why Wenger didn't go for Falcao himself. And why he continues to refuse bringing on an accomplished defensive midfielder.
Danny seems destined to be a productive striker in the prem but nothing all that special. Falcao is vastly superior. Given the situation we found ourselves in at the beginning of the season we had to go with known quality over potential.
Who in their right mind would pass up on Falcao because we already had Welbeck? No one.
The greater mystery is why Wenger didn't go for Falcao himself. And why he continues to refuse bringing on an accomplished defensive midfielder.
That night was an exhibition of top class finishing from the legendary striker.
This is a bit of a misleading stat. People keep telling us he was brilliant and consistently scoring in the run of he games he got to start. The truth is that in 15 games between the 1st of December to the 22nd of Jan, Welbeck started 13, was not involved in one and came on in the other one. In this run of 13 starts in 15 games he scored 6 goals which is just a decent record. He then went on to score 1 goal for the rest of the season and he had around 7 starts in this period.
Ah yeah, I agree. Completely misleading stat. Most people term it as 6 goals in 7 games. I like the depth you've gone into though, nice work!
Myth busted at last.
And it's not misleading at all to say he has 26 goals in 160 (rough numbers, can't remember the exact ones) games even though quite a few of those games involve him being substituted on late in the game?
Thing is Rooney played out of position a lot too just like Welbeck and his goal scoring record was far better. How many times did Rooney play out wide or as a support striker, rather than as a true No. 9?
I like Welbeck and I think he brings a lot of skills to the table, but to me he's better as a 2nd striker and in linking with other creative players rather than as an out and out goal scorer himself. I don't know what the numbers were, but Rooney in particular IIRC had a much better goal scoring record playing with Welbeck over any other striker partner starting from the 11/12 season. I think Welbeck can be a good player from Arsenal, but in supporting a true No. 9, not as the man to fill that void himself.
It's a lot less misleading considering that sample includes the entire 11/12 season in which Welbeck started and finished a number of games as a striker.
Once Giroud comes back and Welbeck is shifted out to the left, the loop will close.
i think he was talking about games started as a Striker. Why don't you lot just go on the fixture list and verify what a poster said before agreeing with him?
The 6 in 10 I quoted were as a striker actually.
Does anyone else momentarily forget he's an Arsenal player now? I keep doing it.
His complex growth spurts were being managed by SAF, could have been a major attacking player, but was cast aside by that gimp ex manaager, he will never progress now. He is a hard working, awkward pile of frustration.
I'm the opposite actually. I was devatated when he left but for some reason I have started to detach any emotional investment quickly and he is starting to just look like any other Arsenal player now.
Chamakh scored something like 10 in his first 15 games at Arenal. Does that mean he's a good player? I'm sorry I'm not overly impressed with Welbeck and his 6 in 10. It's not the norm for him. So all those other games he played - whether it be on the wing or up front - and missed sitters; should they not count?
Cherry picking this little run of form in order to try and claim that Welbeck can do a consistent job up front is pathetic. One run of form means nothing.
This. When Giroud gets back he will be their main striker as he can score goals inside the box. Playing for Arsenal is a good thing, as some may realize his actual qualities and that he's just not good enough, now that he's not playing for United.
Oh by the way I forgot to post the one you can't even prove it wrong
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/39308/History/Danny-Welbeck
What about RVP's? You wanted to do a comparison with him or have you forgotten? I asked not for games played but minutes because Adebayor and Henry were at the club that season, Adebayor played 44 games therefore RVP might have been coming on as a sub a lot.
Also those statistics do not even have minutes played, goals per minutes is far more accurate a comparison.
I've said all this already, I must continue repeating myself however because you simply don't pay attention to the posts. If you want to use statistics then do so reliably, right now from that all it shows is that Danny Welbeck has scored 30 goals in 139 games and in that time gotten only 8 assists.
I'm not sure this is the required standard.
Because, that the only worth contribution worth mentioning, when he was with us over the past 8 years.
Unfortunately plenty on here -including some Arsenal fans (bizarrely) - like to think that Welbeck is a better striker than Giroud. What rubbish.
As I have said: If I supported a neutral team and needed a striker with the choice between buying one of the two - it would be Giroud every single time.
Its not about gloating. Its criticism of a player.
If someone remembers the game where Rooney scored the overhead kick against city, He was so awful through out the game and had just one moment of magic. People criticizing Rooney before the goal are not wrong just because of that one piece of magic.
Similarly, even if Danny goes onto score bucket load of goals in the future, the current criticism is valid. Because a striker of 24 years is not "still developing and learning the trade".
Actually if others remember, Thierry Henry had some obvious weaknesses in his game before and after Arsenal bought him although he always had great potential and was good to have in his previous teams. Under Arsene Wenger's guidance and because of his own work ethic and footballing intelligence, he was transformed at Arsenal into a very clinical striker.
I think Danny is going to develop in such a way as to prove the naysayers wrong. I'd love him to develop along the lines of Henry and come back to United one day.
I think Danny is going to develop in such a way as to prove the naysayers wrong. I'd love him to develop along the lines of Henry and come back to United one day.
I'm sure if we dig up their posts from 6-7 months back when he was still in United shirt that won't be the case. Facetious and all.
I don't think Welbeck is a striker and never will be. He doesn't have the qualities to lead the line. He may do a good job as a supporting striker or even as a winger as he has a pretty good work rate and some other useful qualities, but as a striker as Yoda may say - finish he can not.
It was his achilles heel since academy and IMO hasn't improved all that and he's now 24 years old.
Henry was France's top goalscorer in the 1998 WC still 20 years old. He also had double figures in 2 successive seasons at Monaco in terms of both goals and assists and received numerous accolades in his early 20's. Welbeck is not Henry and never will be.
I love when people bring this shit up as look at Henry he was a later bloomer and had the qualities, so why not Welbeck to turn into the same matter. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. It's easily the same as look at Francis Jeffers, he had 2 years at Everton that looked even better than Welbeck, had more goals per game and even at a younger age. Then again he was playing for Accrington Stanley a year ago.
And believe me there are a lot more Francis Jeffers's in the world and not so many Henry's.
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I think what's more bizarre is that United fans have suddenly started overrating Giroud in an attempt to belittle Welbeck. I watch Giroud every week, I think I know a bit more about his limitations than you do.
Look back through old Welbeck threads: You will see that he has always, and I mean always, been a very divisive figure. He was never universally rated by United fans, so what people are saying, is what they have always said. Maybe some have changed their tune, I don't know. You're only noticing people's opinions now as you are obviously paying more attention.
As far as Giroud goes, I have always rated him and I'm sure if you search, you will find posts clarifying this.
It's funny that Arsenal fans that probably would have said Welbeck is rubbish only a matter of months ago, now want to hold him on a pedestal.
Edit: Yep, a quick search with my username and Giroud will clarify I have always rated him.
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I've been explaining about the RVP one before. And This why you need to learn how to read. @MUFCpiffgawd was right. There is no point to argue with someone like you who is not even bothering reading someone else post. Go read it again and come back when you are done.
It's not even statistic. You are the one who call it stats, so I just follow what you thought. It's just a proof of number goals + number of starter + to make you remember Welbeck came on in 2nd half against Norwich (45 mins) and Welbeck came on for RVP against WBA which the game RVP almost got a red card. I don't use stats to judge players.
@sizzling sausages I can't do anything to stop it now. I tried to stop it by told him that we have two different opinions, so I respect his. And looks like he is still unhappy and disrespect my opinion so he wanted a further argument.
I posted this to end it.
He replied it by laughing at it.
I guess he wanted to see the link of Welbeck number of goals and games. So I give him this:
I posted this to end it.
He replied it by laughing at it.
I guess he wanted to see the link of Welbeck number of goals and games. So I give him this:
Oh by the way I forgot to post the one you can't even prove it wrong
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/39308/History/Danny-Welbeck
fair enough about this point. The point of the scoring record as a striker, conversion rate and SoG % is not to decisively prove that Welbeck can do a job upfront. It's mostly to caution posters and people, who flat out believe that "he's not up to par", to adopt a wait and see approach with the player and judge him more objectively as its the first time he's having a run of games as a striker(starter).
Example:
Poster A : "He's not good enough as a striker and fluff too many chances"
Poster B: "Well that's not exactly true, here's how he performed when given a run of games last season as a striker last season, look at his conversion rate, shot on goal, goal per game, goal per minute....etc"
You can pick all his games he started as a striker in his united career and the point would still stand.
It's simple logic. But people seem to devolve this into "overrating welbeck" or "desperately trying to prove he's top 4 material"...etc. Which is why i aptly said that It's their confirmation bias speaking more than anything else.
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@MUFCpiffgawd. That's fair enough, but it's still evident that Welbeck lacks basic composure. Stats can be skewed / cherry picked by both the pro and anti Welback camps to make their case.
Fact is, due to the media furore about this transfer and the sudden overrating of Welbeck, this thread will go around and around and..........
Fact is, due to the media furore about this transfer and the sudden overrating of Welbeck, this thread will go around and around and..........
You explained with RVP that you took somebody else's numbers but you still used them to do a comparison and make a point, if you want to say that you no longer accept the point then that is fine too.
So I'm not sure what I am supposed to go back and read.
And also, on the topic of going back and reading posts, if you go back and read your posts you will actually find you used the term 'stats of goals'.
Also, you ended the discussion and I laughed at the water and oil thing, it's the first time I've heard it and found it funny. And for some reason you then carried on the discussion, when you said it was wasting your time I (wrongly) assumed that would be the end of it.
So please do make up your mind so I know where you stand.
I can understand you don't want to find the statistics evident by when you said:
I have said there is no need to use them in your arguments.
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Sorry about that, I thought it was stopped because he posted suggesting it was his last post and I accept that's for the best. He wasn't being truthful though, he carried it on and I just replied without thinking about how it's affecting other posters viewing experience.
If he insists on continuing the discussion we could probably do it in PM or something so I will suggest that if he replies again.
Read it again.
I said "probably". So in other words depends how you react. I respect yours while you never respect mine. The fact I already told you we have two different opinions which we never agree each other, so we leave it like that and in that moment I showed my respect on your opinion. But you in the other hand replied it with a disrespectful thing by laugh at it without anything funny.
Now lads, this is getting worse than a Liam Gallager Robbie Williams duet.
I don't used it again after I said I took it from somebody. Go have a look if you don't believe me.
The only thing that I remember I call it stats goals first was about LVG not Welbz. I call Welbz one as stats because you call it stats even though it is never be a stats.
You are just making an excuse. I don't see anything you mentioned "it" only. You mentioned the whole post.
I don't know what's wrong with you but there is nothing funny from it. If you really thing it's funny then from now learn how to think before doing something like laugh at something that isn't even funny. Water and oil never mix together. It makes a lot of sense. Both of us have different opinions and we seem never agree each other, so I respect yours instead to disagree or agree them. I didn't carry the discussion. All I do just post a proof of link that you ask me to prove to show you that I didn't make things up. I can't see it as a carrying discussion. It is proven already in the link. So all you need to is open the link and check it if what I said was right or no. And your response is beyond from it.
I have been saying those the whole time and they are just a fact of Welbeck last season. And also I already told you I never like use stats. I can't see if evident is needed when all I said are a fact from him last season.
Sorry but I didn't read your last long post because the conversation is crazy and nuts just like what everyone said. And after all you are the one who didn't believe it.
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