Don't like it myself and will admit to feeling conflicted. In fact, this cognitive dissonance is one of the reasons I was so pissed off we sold him to Arsenal. It sucks watching a player I spent so long rooting for hoping that he will miss every chance that comes his way. I definitely enjoy those misses far less than I would if it was, say, Ozil spooning shots over the bar. At the end of the day, though, I don't know the guy. He's not my friend. Just a very well paid young man playing the game he loves alongside a bunch of his mates for a club I can't fecking stand. When I remind myself of these facts I feel a little less conflicted about those missed chances.
Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player
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Don't like it myself and will admit to feeling conflicted. In fact, this cognitive dissonance is one of the reasons I was so pissed off we sold him to Arsenal. It sucks watching a player I spent so long rooting for hoping that he will miss every chance that comes his way. I definitely enjoy those misses far less than I would if it was, say, Ozil spooning shots over the bar. At the end of the day, though, I don't know the guy. He's not my friend. Just a very well paid young man playing the game he loves alongside a bunch of his mates for a club I can't fecking stand. When I remind myself of these facts I feel a little less conflicted about those missed chances.
All fair points, and I certainly wouldn't put you in the extreme and thoughtless opinions camp.
Haha, nah not this time, GB. 'Happiest given his realistic talent level' is what I was saying. He isn't good enough to be first choice CF for a top 4 team in the CL, and by the end of the season, this'll be clear to everyone.
There's a big difference between being 2nd choice CF and 4th choice - for example, RvP will very likely soon be our 2nd choice CF, whereas Wilson is our 4th choice (if you include Rooney).
The pressure he'll be experiencing right now will be totally new to him, and judging by his performance last night, he isn't thriving on it - few do.
Welbeck's best case scenario is to be 2nd choice main striker for a club that are trying to win the league and playing in the CL. That's no slight upon Welbeck, he could do a good job in that role. He just isn't cut out to be main man up front at a top 4 club.
I mean, if you look at the 5 teams who actively expect to finish top 4 and see who their main striker is right now it starts to become more clear...
Chelsea - Costa
Man City - Aguero
Man Utd - Falcao
Liverpool - Sturridge
Arsenal - Welbeck
It's important to remember that Arsenal always finish top 4, and the expectation as their 1st choice CF will be to AT LEAST fire them into the CL places. Welbeck is a decent striker and a good lad, but he isn't one of those top 4 first choice CFs, and personally, I don't think he ever will be.
Do you not think, people went overboard when he was sold, saying he is going to bang in shit loads of goals playing as the frontman??..Most on here are not writing him off (yet). They are just reiterating that these sort of inconsistent performances was what he delivered at United as well.
some people went overboard, even in the press. But, he is a local lad, and had shown that he has potential, in the CL and International level. Crucially, he offers a completely different skillset to all our other forwards and this is why I felt we could have kept him, if it werent for the fact that he wants first team football.
This is why i also disagree with Jupiter's post, he is not going to go to Arsenal with it in his mind that he will be happy to be 2nd choice. He wants to be first choice and compete with Sturridge for that England spot. Clearly he could have gone to any other team lower and been first choice, and it wouldnt do his England chances any harm. He has belief that he can be a number 1, you dont go believing that you are number 2, thats silly.
No, not happy to go to Arsenal with that in his mind, of course not. I'm talking about when he realises that he's 2nd choice at Arsenal as well.
Where's he gonna go then?
Everton have a better striker than him, as do Spurs.
Sunderland? Hull? Southampton?
Or will he be happy to remain a 2nd choice CF at Arsenal? If he has any sense it'll be the latter.
But the criticism still stands. He is so inconsitent in front of goal and he has to improve drastically. Pointing it out is called "impatience" now , is it???..
Also, don't keep talking about the CL level. He had one good game against Real and that doesn't equate to being "match the best of the teams" or " shred them to pieces", like you said earlier. All Welbeck supporters just cling to that game like a tick because he has had probably one such game in his entire career with us.
He's poor in front of goal, simple as. It's why he was never first choice, nothing we didn't already know. He is capable of some beautiful finishes though at times, which makes it stranger he's no consistency in front of goal.
I think he would be better off at Sunderland or Hull. He really would be their preferred striker, probably score most of their goals and get a load of confidence. He would enjoy his football. The longer he stays up front at Arsenal, and not scoring, the more the pressure will build. He is already repeating the form he had at United in his first few Arsenal games in missing pretty easy chances. I remember Andrew Cole struggling initally at United due to the pressure to score. Once he got the confidence, the net became a magnet. Danny could quite easily become Arsenal's 3rd choice if Wenger decides to play Walcott up front when he is back.
Maybe you want to believe that Welbeck with be your saviour? Having watched him for many years now, I can tell you that what you have witnessed the past two games, is very much the norm. He's a decent player, but really lacks that clinical edge.
We will have to agree to disagree, I guess. If I was a neutral and my team needed a striker with the choice between Giroud and Welbeck: Giroud would win every single time.
Giroud was fluffing chances when he first got there too.
There probably is a bit of that, but it's because I've had to spend two years watching Giroud gesticulating dramatically at the sky every time he misses a sitter.
I guess I have seen the other side of that coin; Danny missing simple chances and making a mess of things. Anyway, only time will tell. Despite what some want you to think on here, Welbeck isn't half the player that some claim. Maybe Wenger can sort him out? I have my doubts, though.
When Giroud gets the ball in the box, I get the feeling there's a 50/50 chance he may score but when it is Welbeck, I am at least 75% confident he will not only miss, but miss embarrassingly.
I still remember when he went through on goal against Bayern in the UCL and thinking, he'll try a lob or some shit and not score. That's exactly what happened.
I still remember when he went through on goal against Bayern in the UCL and thinking, he'll try a lob or some shit and not score. That's exactly what happened.
My thoughts exactly. He scores some lovely goals but he's not one of those strikers who when bearing down on goal have you thinking it's already in the net. It's a thin line but he's just not a top quality finisher.
The problem with him is that he isnt at his best when he is a lone striker, he likes to drift out wide or drop backs but you cant afford to do that as a lone striker, his linkup play with another striker is also very good, if Ozil continues to flop maybe Arsenal should try a 442, with Wilshere/Ramsey in midfield, Cazorla, Sanchez wide and Welbz, Giroud in center.
He's had that already apparently, that's the excuses for his sub bar goal return, the fact he isn't playing in position.
You dont get that with Welbeck, he he just stares at the heavens when he misses a sitter.
I think he is more likely to end up a priest than a top striker given the amount of time he spends imploring the almighty to help him score.
You dont get that with Welbeck, he he just stares at the heavens when he misses a sitter.
I think he is more likely to end up a priest than a top striker given the amount of time he spends imploring the almighty to help him score.
no need to get silly
The lad has just played his SECOND game for his new club. Thats why i say fans need to be patient. You cannot judge him at this stage.
Yes, his finishing needs work on it. He is inconsistent BUT people also need to look at his record when he was playing in his prefered role.
There are other factors why he doesnt deserve the venom in some of the criticism he's getting. Most people will agree his all round game is pretty good for his age. He is fast and stretches teams.
I see you conveniently left out his international games too. By the way he's got 10 goals in 28 international appearances, not too shoddy!
Does it on the big stage, European Championships
that is why i say people should show a bit of patience. There is history of other strikers not being consistent goalscorers at his age but have gone on to become consistent. He needs gametime, in the position he wants to play in. Last word to the man himself
Why should We (caftards) show any patience??.. I mean he is not our player anymore and people defending him getting beyond ridiculous.
I will be honest, I don't care how he does at Arsenal. I don't care even if he becomes the next Henry, but if criticizing a player on his abilities , (not just on the two games, over the last 7 years) is called impatience, then so be it.
As for all your consistent run of form scores and cherry picking stuff, just go through the number of times he has been a match winner or scored the crucial goal or the quality of the opposition who he scored against and you will know the reason why we are being "impatient"...
how is the fact that people are defending him 'getting beyond ridiculous'?
why do you have so much hatred for him?
btw here are the teams he has scored against, you can look them up yourself to see how 'crucial' they were or were not
Chelsea - 1 (for Sunderland)
Everton - 2 (for Sunderland)
Bolton - 1 (for Sunderland)
Blackburn - 1 (for Sunderland)
For United
Stoke City - 1
Spurs - 1
Arsenal - 1
Basel - 2 (CL)
Norwich - 1
Fulham - 1
Man City - 1
Bolton - 1
Arsenal - 1
Wolves - 1
Villa - 1
Everton - 1
Real Madrid - 1 (CL)
Shakhtar Donetsk - 1 (CL)
Villa - 2
West Ham - 1
Norwich - 1
Swansea - 1
West Brom - 1
why do you have so much hatred for him?
btw here are the teams he has scored against, you can look them up yourself to see how 'crucial' they were or were not
Chelsea - 1 (for Sunderland)
Everton - 2 (for Sunderland)
Bolton - 1 (for Sunderland)
Blackburn - 1 (for Sunderland)
For United
Stoke City - 1
Spurs - 1
Arsenal - 1
Basel - 2 (CL)
Norwich - 1
Fulham - 1
Man City - 1
Bolton - 1
Arsenal - 1
Wolves - 1
Villa - 1
Everton - 1
Real Madrid - 1 (CL)
Shakhtar Donetsk - 1 (CL)
Villa - 2
West Ham - 1
Norwich - 1
Swansea - 1
West Brom - 1
Fecks sake. I've heard it said on here countless times how he's suffered from playing wide or in the hole. And now he apparently also suffers from playing as a lone striker.
No wonder he's having such difficulties stepping up. He has no fecking position.
I guess people defending him in a fair manner isn't ridiculous. But I do think that people overstating his ability and skewing stats is getting beyond ridiculous. I also feel the hysteria about his departure was definitely cringeworthy and beyond ridiculous.
How did he fare against City by the way? Not really to jump on his back myself as I like Danny ( and didn't really like him being sold ) but it's a bit stupid that some people were shaking their fists saying that 'Arsenal will be perfect for him' and he'll show his true ability and now complain that for x, y or z reason he's not showing it.
You could almost say he has no.................iden..
No I wont go there.
He isnt a deep striker, he isnt a lone front man, he needs a strike partner.
He is almost exactly like Heskey in that he flourished with Owen alongside him, but looked awkward and lost with out the right striker partner.
He needs to start using that physique of his and bullying defenders and making space and making it uncomfortable for those he is playing up against.
He would suit a traditional 2 man strike pairing down to the ground, but hes never going to be the main man.
Arsenal are in shambles at the moment. Still his performance overall isnt bad. His movement is good and he got opportunities. The way he plays suits them just fine; he the right mix physicality, mobility and technical ability to fit into Wenger´s idea of football. The only thing that he really needs to do is to convert his opportunities. He has about 3 month (?) until Giroud returns to convince wenger that he should be a regular starter. Its in his own hands now; sink or swim. No reason to jump the gun in one or the other way.
Never has an Arsenal player been defended so vigorously on a United forum.
And I'd loved to have not seen the whole forum littered with posts full of blubbering nonsense and depression when we sold him. Neither were required but both are the case.
As you say one doesn't legitimize the other, however the overreactions of some aren't the players fault and it seem like people are using some of that energy to have a go at him rather than adopting a more measured approach to criticism, hence my opinion.
Rarely have we sold them a good prospect and local lad who came through our youth setup.
Never has Welbeck been defended so vigorously everywhere. I mean the press as a whole are preaching patience with the player after last night's display, when was the last time that happened? These were the same people shredding Rooney from a much younger age.
Whilst i dont disagree with the premise of selling one of our own to arse, it seems that he forced through a sale when the club, and even wenger, wanted a loan.
And hes 24 this year, I think we can drop the term prospect when discussing danny.
Like the ad for the US army says, he already be all he can be.
many players dont hit their peak until 27ish
When Rooney was 23/24 , it was the 09/10 season where he scored those 30+ goals
The way I see it is, that he is now our rivals striker making him a rival, making criticisim of him pretty much fair game as soon as he signed on the dotted line for them.
By the time Rooney was 23 he had already scored 59 in 146 which is over 1 goal every 3 games. Even in Danny's prolific seasons he hasn't gotten close to this.
But then we are talking about two players in completely different classes.
Well exactly. Up until that point nobody had him down as a lethal finisher.
Goes without saying that Rooney was (and will probably always be) a much better striker but his finishing was definitely the focus of a lot of criticism in his early 20s. It was only from that season onwards that he got this reputation as a fox in the box.
I think people are more having a go at the posters / media who have had an absolute meltdown since he left. It's all getting quite provocative from both camps, I feel. It's little to do with Welbeck on a personal level, it's got to do with the way people are carrying on.
It's also normal for people not to want him to turn into the next 'Henry' as he is finished here and gone to a rival.
Priceless. I do love when people claim he tore Madrid to shreds. He had a decent game against them, but it wasn't like he was motoring through their defence, creating chance after chance for himself. He had a good game, doing a very specific job. This game gets talked up to an incredible degree on Danny's threads.
It's a figure of speech get over yourself
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