Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player

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Amar__ said:
We were discussing who is better and more proven player at the moment and it's a no brainer. It's like saying Ronaldo isn't better than Sterling because Sterling is much younger than him.
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It's not apt comparison. Welbeck is better at the moment, but not by that big of a gap like in your comparison. Morata has 2 years to catch up and if he is a starter for Juve he can surpass him.

JSMHE said:
We got 3 league games.
Hernandez got his 45 mins in the league and played as a starter and in the end it was a disappointment performance. Welbeck got about 20 mins in two league games. I can't see Welbeck received it more time under LVG than Hernandez. Just because he played two games (from the bench) doesn't mean he received it fair. Welbeck got more features but only 10 mins each. Surely that's not fair and enough to impress the manager by scoring goals. And yet he played like our best attackers in those 10 mins each.

Training, If we are talking about Tevez, I'm sure we all know that he was such a terrible trainer since never give 100% in training. And it seems LVG judges him based on goals scoring record in overall of the past without looking where he spent his games time and last season record. I don't think training is enough to show if you are a great or bad goal scorer. Some players score more goals in training but less goals in games. Welbeck is sold without getting fair chances from LVG even though he showed that he was our most dangerous attackers in our recently games.
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Welbeck got 30 and 20 mins respectively in his 2 league games, so it's 50, not 20. He also featured in most of the pre-season games as a starter, while Hernandez was a sub in most of them.

Both Welbeck and Hernandez got full 90 mins against MK Dons and both were underwhelming, resulting both being sold(loaned). I'm sure if we found a buyer for Anderson he would have been sold as well, and if we weren't think in wide areas we'd got rid of Young/Valencia as well.

Welbeck was a fringe player and with Falcao, Rooney, RvP fighting for 1 or 2 spots, depending on formation, he was unlikely to feature in those games, as he's not in the same class as those 3. It's either the bench or sold, and he has made his choice.
 
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Offside said:
Never scores in them though.
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My thoughts at first too, but it turns out he's scored against both City and Madrid away, twice against Arsenal, and twice against Spurs (if you count them as a big team). Not bad, tbh.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Madrid away, City away.
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Over 3 years he's got a couple of goals in big games and put in a few good shifts. He is just an average player to be honest and I can't see Man City having too many issues with him tomorrow.
 
Exclusive - Welbeck's move to Arsenal was surprising, admits Liverpool boss Rodgers

“It’s certainly something Manchester United have not done over the years,” he told the Alan Brazil Sports Breakfast show.

"Arsenal will be delighted with the deal. For £16million he’s a great talent. I saw him play for Manchester United against Real Madrid in the Champions League a few years ago and he was outstanding.

“Arsenal will be happy, they have got a very good player, and Manchester United strategically felt they could let him go.”

http://talksport.com/football/exclu...boss-rodgers-140911113119#zMLpbUHuAQQXLWDF.99
 
ivaldo said:
I unreservedly agree. That said you would expect more than 8 from a whole career. it highlights the problem people had with him - End Product. He displayed the very reason why this stat is so low against Switzerland. Ultimately end product is what it comes down to as an attacking player.
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That's not necessarily correct.
Zidane, for example, had far worse end products than Lampard over his career. But he has other aspects of the game which makes him clearly a far better player. I know we are living in the Messi and Ronaldo era where end products are glorified to it's extreme. But football is just not as simple as you may have thought it is.
 
RedRonaldo said:
That's not necessarily correct.
Zidane, for example, had far worse end products than Lampard over his career. But he has other aspects of the game which makes him clearly a far better player. I know we are living in the Messi and Ronaldo era where end products are glorified to it's extreme. But football is just not as simple as you may have thought it is.
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Was Zidane a striker? There's your difference. His JOB is to finish and create in the final 3rd, as I said previously its not the be all and end all but its pretty atrocious.
 
ivaldo said:
Was Zidane a striker? There's your difference. His JOB is to finish and create in the final 3rd, as I said previously its not the be all and end all but its pretty atrocious.
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How many of those game he had his role is to finish and create though. That's the whole point. According to Fergie himself on Welbeck it seems that is not the role he has been given.
 
In the age of players writing fans letters etc when they leave teams. All Welbeck has said is that he used to see himself playing at Arsenal.Mata was at Chelsea for 2 years and felt he needed to write one for god sake. Danny has been at United since 9? We want a letter Danny!!!
 
FromTheBench said:
Exclusive - Welbeck's move to Arsenal was surprising, admits Liverpool boss Rodgers

“It’s certainly something Manchester United have not done over the years,” he told the Alan Brazil Sports Breakfast show.

"Arsenal will be delighted with the deal. For £16million he’s a great talent. I saw him play for Manchester United against Real Madrid in the Champions League a few years ago and he was outstanding.

“Arsenal will be happy, they have got a very good player, and Manchester United strategically felt they could let him go.”

http://talksport.com/football/exclu...boss-rodgers-140911113119#zMLpbUHuAQQXLWDF.99
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Was there a need for Brenton to use the word strategically ? His continuous use of management text book vocabulary makes him look like a fraud. Anyway I agree that Arsenal got themselves a great deal.
 
RedRonaldo said:
How many of those game he had his role is to finish and create though. That's the whole point. According to Fergie himself on Welbeck it seems that is not the role he has been given.
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As a winger? That's his job.
 
ivaldo said:
As a winger? That's his job.
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Not every wingers role are the same. Welbeck was never a traditional winger anyway, and he was assigned to different roles under Fergie during his time there. I start to wonder how much understanding you have on our team strategy and dynamics between the players role at that time, it appears you only read things based on papers, stats and traditional role and formation, and nothing beyond that.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Not every wingers role are the same. Welbeck was never a traditional winger anyway, and he was assigned to different roles under Fergie during his time there. I start to wonder how much understanding you have on our team strategy and dynamics between the players role at that time, it appears you only read things on papers, stats and traditional role and formation, and nothing beyond that.
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Oh really? Is this where you're going? Grow up.

On occasion Welbeck was employed to do a specific job, usually to track a player, however his primary goal was always in an attacking sense, otherwise a more defensive player wouldve been selected, this was the minority not the majority though.

You can argue until you're blue on the face, you know he hasn't produced where it counts.
 
Empire said:
I'm not sure why such a simple matter you have made into a long discussion, I'll keep my post concise.

- It was quite clear I did not say all Welbeck can do is run therefore there was absolutely no reason for you to suggest that might be something I think to be true.

- You base your notion Ferguson preferred Welbeck over Rooney on two games where Welbeck was selected. This does not in anyway shape or form suggest Ferguson preferred Welbeck as a player centrally to Rooney. Two games...

- The manager had to make a decision before the transfer window finished, he had an assessment on Welbeck to that point and opted for Rooney, RVP, Falcao and Wilson. He had clearly seen enough to know Welbeck is not nor will achieve the level of Rooney, RVP and Falcao.

- I am also sure like SAF if Falcao, Rooney, RVP, Mata or Wilson plays bad they will be dropped. Currently though he clearly wants his best players to get maximum game time so they can learn this system and advance in his process.

- You also admitted SAF didn't think Rooney was the better player. Therefore if 3 managers preferred Rooney and RVP over Welbeck, clearly he is not good enough.
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I wish you can just read my posts properly.

- Read it again! There are two scenarion which I come out. Since I wasn't sure what you meant so I used OR.

- You seem keep missing my point here. try to read this carefully:
Welbeck convince SAF to drop Rooney. Rooney didn't play that good and inconsistent in that season but Welbeck shows up so SAF dropped him and sometime sub him off for Welbeck. It wasn't just two games. And it wasn't just Welbeck. If I remember Hernandez also took a part to be able to convince SAF to drop Rooney.
SAF always give fair chance to his player. But LVG didn't do it on Welbeck. The way how he handle Welbeck was too harsh. Welbeck didn't get any fair chance to prove that he can score for him. Play 10 mins each in two league games only are not enough to judge players. Training isn't the best place to impress the manager. It's not like he is Bebe quality. Welbeck is proven to be a very good player in EPL and he deserves a fair chance to prove himself before being sold.

- If Welbeck isn't good enough then why would SAF plays Welbeck. And it looks to me that SAF has no fear to drop Rooney for both Welbeck and Hernandez and even Kagawa. And I'm sure if SAF didn't retire, he won't hold any hesitation to sell Rooney in 2013/2014 because we have Welbeck, Hernandez and Kagawa which already impressed him in 2012/2013.
 
I'm happy Welbeck is gone, for me he is part of the deadwood that has gotten us in this position. Falcao to us instead of Arsenal and selling Welbeck to Arsenal is about the best move we could make to get into top four.

This move (With a local player) actually gave me more confidence that Van Gaal is really going to take us back to the top.
 
Giggsforever said:
I'm happy Welbeck is gone, for me he is part of the deadwood that has gotten us in this position. Falcao to us instead of Arsenal and selling Welbeck to Arsenal is about the best move we could make to get into top four.

This move (With a local player) actually gave me more confidence that Van Gaal is really going to take us back to the top.
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Our forwards were already the strongest point of our squad though, what do you expect Falcao to give us that Rooney and RVP can't?
 
Giggsforever said:
I'm happy Welbeck is gone, for me he is part of the deadwood that has gotten us in this position. Falcao to us instead of Arsenal and selling Welbeck to Arsenal is about the best move we could make to get into top four.

This move (With a local player) actually gave me more confidence that Van Gaal is really going to take us back to the top.
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Paris and Real, which are both premium paying clubs did appearantly drop out for Falcao´s signing, because they were not ready to meet his wage demands. What makes you think that Falcao to Arsenal was ever a possibility?

It was not Welbeck or Falcao or even another top level striker, it was at that point in time Welbeck or nobody, which would have been a huge problem for Arsenal because they were looking towards several months with Yaya Sanogo as their sole clear cut forward. Even if Welbeck does not step up his game and just performs on the level of the last season, he already immensively improves Arsenal given their otherwise dire situation up front. This is what several people in this thread criticised about this deal. Not the fact that Welbeck leaves, but his destination. You just helped out a direct rival for a CL spot.
 
I get the feeling that whatever happens tomorrow lunchtime, this thread will probably reach 100 pages in the next 24 hours.
 
I do love how the supporters of Welbeck will routinely state how bad Rooney has played over the past year, and will keep using the rather glorious refrain of "6 goals in 7 games" when talking about his magnificent prowess in front of goal during his run up top last year. I love how this is always only using league goals, conveniently leaving out the fact he played 3 cup games during this run, without a goal, thus resulting in a more realistic for our Danny, 6 in 10.

The same Wayne Rooney (one of the highest scorers in the history of our beautiful club might I add) scored 8 goals in 10 games to start last year. Course, this gets swept under the carpet, because it doesn't suit the arguments of the supporters. 8 in 10 is not a stat I hear very often on here. If we throw in cup games during this run for Wayne? Well, 2 against Leverkusen. None against Liverpool. Didn't play against Shakhtar, didn't score against Sociedad (though his work resulted in the og), only played 12 minutes against Norwich, didn't score again against Sociedad, and didn't score against Leverkusen - that makes it 10 in 15 (I'm not including his 12 minutes against Norwich).

So, an over the top Rooney, who was shambolic last year (in the eyes of the Welbeck fans) still has a similar record in front of goal as the mighty Danny during the best purple patch of his career.

The overreaction on here to the Welbeck sale is truly mesmerising. Honestly, if I'm having a bad day at work, I hit this thread and have a read. It instantly cheers me up.

I look above and read a comment that training is not the right place to judge a player! Honest to God. So, where they practice, day in, day out, is not the place to judge someone? Ok, so, we promote a reserve to train with the first teamers, he looks completely out of place ... but we should just fire him into a competitive game because training is apparently not the place to judge someone.

It's brilliant how this same poster then conveniently disregards a cup game against opposition 2 leagues below us in which Welbeck starts when pointing out that he hasn't had a fair crack of the whip. Perhaps Louis gave him his chance, having seen how poor he was in training to go and change his mind .. and he did sweet fark all with it in that game. But hey, we'll disregard that because starting a game doesn't help with our argument as to why Danny didn't have a fair chance.

I just love the cherry picking of the stats and reasoning when it comes to Danny.
 
This thread is going to be a barrel of laughs come 3 o clock tomorrow.
Either he'll be the "see, I told you he was shit" type of player...Or, he'll be the "OMG sack LVG, hire Welbeck" type of player.

I still love how everyone is ignoring the fact that Nicky Butt said he wanted to leave...Amusing!

I've nothing against Welbeck...I always loved him. He was my favourite player here (until last April) but I was always so desperate for him to make it....But, it was quite obvious it wasn't happening.

It makes me wonder if, Fellaini hung around the Arndale in his teenage years and ate gravy and chips every 2nd day, would he be adored so much...
 
.Rossi said:
This thread is going to be a barrel of laughs come 3 o clock tomorrow.
Either he'll be the "see, I told you he was shit" type of player...Or, he'll be the "OMG sack LVG, hire Welbeck" type of player.

I still love how everyone is ignoring the fact that Nicky Butt said he wanted to leave...Amusing!

I've nothing against Welbeck...I always loved him. He was my favourite player here (until last April) but I was always so desperate for him to make it....But, it was quite obvious it wasn't happening.

It makes me wonder if, Fellaini hung around the Arndale in his teenage years and ate gravy and chips every 2nd day, would he be adored so much...
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I agree with this. I'll probably avoid this thread after the City game because people will be irrational (to both extremes). I hope Danny does well though. I think he'll score.
 
From big Louis himself

"It's ridiculous, because I have explained that we let 14 players go. And when you don't buy 14 players, the vacant positions go to the youth players. But they have to take that chance, because it's not in my hands.

"Every player that we let go is a difficult decision. But you have to accept what (Welbeck's) position was. And you have to see the last three seasons and you can see he does not have the record of Rooney or van Persie.

"And if he had stayed, then I cannot give opportunities to the youth, where I think there are strikers that can fit in our profile. Also Danny Welbeck was starting on the bench, and he doesn't want to be on the bench. But we gave him a great gesture by letting him go to another big club, because he did his work for Manchester United, from nine years old.

"So we made a gesture to Danny Welbeck and I think a club like Manchester United has to be like that."
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Sounds very promising for Wilson

But, also more importantly, common sense!! From both LVG and Welbeck!
Breathe it in people....Breathe it in deep!!
 
ZDwyr said:
I agree with this. I'll probably avoid this thread after the City game because people will be irrational (to both extremes). I hope Danny does well though. I think he'll score.
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How can you possibly "think he'll score"? Did you think he would score a header against Real? Or miss a one-on-one against Bayern?
 
manusteve said:
How can you possibly "think he'll score"? Did you think he would score a header against Real? Or miss a one-on-one against Bayern?
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Well I watched Diame give City's defence nightmares with his pace and power last week. I think Welbeck will do the same and have a feeling he will score.
 
Enigma_87 said:
That we need to see more from Morata to make a proper comparison with Welbeck and also he has 2 years on Welbeck in which he'll probably develop some of his abilities.
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What are these abilities that Welbeck has that Morata is yet to develop?
 
JSMHE said:
There is not just 1 game (Real Madrid) only when Rooney is dropped. There are more.
I remember another game was Spurs. Not so sure if dropping Rooney for Welbeck against Spurs means to be because of the immense stamina to stop a specific player. Rooney has a tank stamina as well.
If you think play Welbeck means build a team that can run a lot or if you think all Welbeck does is just "run" then you might need to watch more of him.
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The match vs spurs came when Rooney had just returned from injury. Apart from those two Sir Alex never benched Rooney for Welbeck. As matter of fact after the spurs game welbeck reverted back to the squad role he's always had at the club.
 
ivaldo said:
Oh really? Is this where you're going? Grow up.

On occasion Welbeck was employed to do a specific job, usually to track a player, however his primary goal was always in an attacking sense, otherwise a more defensive player wouldve been selected, this was the minority not the majority though.

You can argue until you're blue on the face, you know he hasn't produced where it counts.
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He has never been given a proper first team starting role here anyway, you think all your judgement based on that is fair? Don't be silly.
Besides, stretching the defence with pace and movement, opening up spaces for his teammates around the box, organizing attack play, playing one-twos, pressuring defenders, doing all the "hardwork" up front etc all counts in the attacking play. He did score a few when given a proper chance mind.
I'd say judge his end products by end of season when given a fair amount of games up front, not by his majority of substitutes appearances while playing out of position and mainly being employed to do other specific role.
 
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RedRonaldo said:
He has never been given a proper first team starting role here anyway, you think all your judgement based on that is fair? Don't be silly.
Besides, stretching the defence with pace and movement, opening up spaces for his teammates around the box, organizing attack play, playing one-twos, pressuring defenders, doing all the "hardwork" up front etc all counts in the attacking play. He did score a few when given a proper chance mind.
I'd say judge his end products by end of season when given a fair amount of games up front, not by his majority of substitutes appearances while playing out of position and mainly being employed to do other specific role.
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Bold equates to 'runs a lot'. You sound like the type of person to appreciates Heskey or Milner.
 
He'll definitely score today. That's just the way football seems to go.
 
A lot of United fans seem unable to forgive him for that miss, even though RvP was guilty of worse in that tie.
 
Dante said:
A lot of United fans seem unable to forgive him for that miss, even though RvP was guilty of worse in that tie.
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RvP missed worse sitters the season before against Madrid. Either way, Welbeck is proving how ABU the media are. Apparently a donkey when he played for us, now the next Henry.
 
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