Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player

[Amar__]

If welbeck had sandro's fitness record he would have ended up in a lot worse team than qpr. Its silly to ignore how injury prone sandro is when talking about him as a player.

Well he obviously hasn't got Sandro's fitness, and I wouldn't be talking about him being better than Sandro in that case if he was barely playing any football, so the point stays the same.

If Anderson wasn't injured all the time he would be much better player than he is, right?

That we need to see more from Morata to make a proper comparison with Welbeck and also he has 2 years on Welbeck in which he'll probably develop some of his abilities.

We were discussing who is better and more proven player at the moment and it's a no brainer. It's like saying Ronaldo isn't better than Sterling because Sterling is much younger than him.

 

[ivaldo]

Well I won't use missing great chances as a case to judge a young player. Yes he slipped a lot in the box and has often been ridiculed by fans, but apart from finishing bit he has done better outside the box than our other strikers. Yes finishing is big part for any striker, but he has proved he could finish much better than what you could remember when starting as a striker, as back up by last season stats and his international career.

Yeh those 8 assists all career really highlights his ability around the box

 

[Sassy Colin]

I guess the question on everybody's lips is does @DWelbz19 get a name change to JWilsonz49 now?

 

[DWelbz19]

I guess the question on everybody's lips is does @DWelbz19 get a name change to JWilsonz49 now?

I was a little distraught at first but once I got some much needed reconciliation from @Big Ben Foster, everything was okay.

 

[JazzG]

To be fair, I think Gary was more surprised about the fact we sold him to Arsenal and for only £16m, not that we had sold him.

What he says makes complete sense. We obviously are very short up top so you've helped us in that regard with a player who should fit in well. Considering you're desperate to get back into the CL places and face very stiff competition to get back in, it is a very strange decision by Man Utd to one of the teams standing in your way. If we already had a top striker and bought him in as backup you'd say it doesn't really make a big difference but we were desperately short in that position no matter what Wenger says! I don't think you can blame Man Utd for selling the player in gerneral, end of the day you've bought in a better striker and I don't think Welbeck wanted to stay there. With you being desperate to get back into the CL places you need short term solutions and have plenty of money to throw at them.

I think it is a good deal for us, even if he doesn't become a prolific goal scorer he has a lot of good elements to his game and is very versatile. He's quick and links up well with his team mates. As he has shown with marking Alonso tactically he is switched on as well. With him being English he will also help us fulfil our home grown requirements and also have more resale value if it doesn't work out. Of course Cavani would have been better but he wasn't available and as a backup solution I'm happy with Welbeck.

This doens't make much sense. Even the the very best can have a poor first touch at times. So to use that as the basis for your argument is not very smart.

I was being polite, his first touch and link up play most of the time is not top quality. That is why he was dropped for Origi for Belgium in the World Cup.

 

[MJJ]

Well he obviously hasn't got Sandro's fitness, and I wouldn't be talking about him being better than Sandro in that case if he was barely playing any football, so the point stays the same.

If Anderson wasn't injured all the time he would be much better player than he is, right?



We were discussing who is better and more proven player at the moment and it's a no brainer. It's like saying Ronaldo isn't better than Sterling because Sterling is much younger than him.

I do understand where you are coming from but there is a difference. A fit sandro is better than a fit welbeck unlike anderson which is where I think the distinction needs to be made.

 

[Empire]

Unfortunately we saw some games SAF dropped Rooney for Welbeck. Welbeck has done enough in that season to convince SAF to drop Rooney.

You mean games like Real Madrid where Welbeck's stamina was of immense value. Sorry Louis van Gaal does not want to be David Moyes and build a team that can run a lot.

Welbeck was chosen against Madrid not because he was the better player but because he had the stamina to cause problems to Xabi Alonso whilst also able to get up the pitch for the counter, it was purely tactical. And you can watch SAF's interviews to confirm this.

Nani was also chosen in that game, did SAF come to his senses and realise the greatness of Nani? Or did he simply make a tactical decision for a specific game?

 

[MUFCpiffgawd]

I was being polite, his first touch and link up play most of the time is not top quality. That is why he was dropped for Origi for Belgium in the World Cup.

sorry about that. Thought you were talking about Welbeck. As far as Lukaku, his first touch is missing more often than not.

 

[gasmanc]

To be fair, I think Gary was more surprised about the fact we sold him to Arsenal and for only £16m, not that we had sold him.

After gifting us RVP for 20m we probably felt a discounted price was only fair.

 

[PedroMendez]

how things change. Arsenal fans talking Welbeck up and United fans talk him down.
If I would have asked three weeks ago, if Sandro is better than Welbeck, my account would have been banned.

Replacing Welbz with Falcao is a weird move but there cant be any doubts about who is the better player. Its a great deal for Arsenal so. I think Arsenal needed another forward and Danny is exactly the kind of player Wenger always wanted.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

How could you judge a player stats as a striker when when he spend most of his time in either substitute bench or playing out of position?

The only fair way to judge should be based on the number of starts he made on his preferred position.

And he usually played well in terms of all round play.

So only strikers score goals? Just because he was moved wide does not mean that you can't chip in with a goal. That has been the whole problem with this team. Apart from the strikers there has been nowhere near enough contribution from the other players.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

how things change. Arsenal fans talking Welbeck up and United fans talk him down.
If I would have asked three weeks ago, if Sandro is better than Welbeck, my account would have been banned.

Replacing Welbz with Falcao is a weird move but there cant be any doubts about who is the better player. Its a great deal for Arsenal so. I think Arsenal needed another forward and Danny is exactly the kind of player Wenger always wanted.

I think it is a win win situation for both teams. How anyone can think getting Falcao is bad is nuts.

 

[JPRouve]

how things change. Arsenal fans talking Welbeck up and United fans talk him down.
If I would have asked three weeks ago, if Sandro is better than Welbeck, my account would have been banned.

Replacing Welbz with Falcao is a weird move but there cant be any doubts about who is the better player. Its a great deal for Arsenal so. I think Arsenal needed another forward and Danny is exactly the kind of player Wenger always wanted.

It's only a matter of interpretation but i think that we replaced Welbeck with Wilson and Hernandez with Falcao. Which makes a lot of sense.

 

[JSMHE]

You mean games like Real Madrid where Welbeck's stamina was of immense value. Sorry Louis van Gaal does not want to be David Moyes and build a team that can run a lot.

Welbeck was chosen against Madrid not because he was the better player but because he had the stamina to cause problems to Xabi Alonso whilst also able to get up the pitch for the counter, it was purely tactical. And you can watch SAF's interviews to confirm this.

Nani was also chosen in that game, did SAF come to his senses and realise the greatness of Nani? Or did he simply make a tactical decision for a specific game?

There is not just 1 game (Real Madrid) only when Rooney is dropped. There are more.
I remember another game was Spurs. Not so sure if dropping Rooney for Welbeck against Spurs means to be because of the immense stamina to stop a specific player. Rooney has a tank stamina as well.
If you think play Welbeck means build a team that can run a lot or if you think all Welbeck does is just "run" then you might need to watch more of him.

 

[Amir]

We got Di Maria and Mata and the unfit RVP and Rooney didn't do enough. I understand Rooney didn't get enough service, but when Welbeck came on, he looks way more lively and dangerous than Rooney. And during Burnley game, I'm sure RVP got a some chances from Di Maria to score goals, and I understand RVP was unfit and Welbeck should start in that game.

I think Danny's pace and movement are always going to stretch a defence more when he's off the ball. But his ability on the ball might offset that.

Yeah, RVP did have two chances against Burnley, our only chances, one of them cleared off the line. Never did I think 'Welbeck would have scored one of those'.

 

[JSMHE]

I think Danny's pace and movement are always going to stretch a defence more when he's off the ball. But his ability on the ball might offset that.

Yeah, RVP did have two chances against Burnley, our only chances, one of them cleared off the line. Never did I think 'Welbeck would have scored one of those'.

Yeah. And he might get different situation to score goals since he is a different type of player. Or Welbeck will be more as a support role to play quicker and helping Rooney to score. After all he is unselfish player.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Yeh those 8 assists all career really highlights his ability around the box

I know it's convenient to weight up goals and assists only but football game is more then that. Link up play, pace and movement, stretching defense, one-twos, pressuring defenders and bringing other players into play also plays a big part to the game.

 

[Amir]

Yeah. And he might get different situation to score goals since he is a different type of player. Or Welbeck will be more as a support role to play quicker and helping Rooney to score. After all he is unselfish player.

Definitely. But if he's shown the ability to regularly do that at a high quality, he'd still be at United because there wouldn't be that big question mark over his head. He's still, in some ways, an unknown quantity, a player who has to make a bit of a jump in order to be as good as people think he is.

His last two years were a big waste, under Fergie and then Moyes. If they weren't then maybe in the summer of 2014 there wouldn't have been any questions regarding Welbeck, one way or the other. But those years were wasted and now we found ourselves with a player who is two years older and still not anywhere near the final product (at least I hope so, for his sake). And, the bottom line, just not good enough right now for us.

 

[Sassy Colin]

At the end of the day, if we'd have got the £20 - 25M we should have got in today's market (Lallana went for £25M after all), we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Definitely. But if he's shown the ability to regularly do that at a high quality, he'd still be at United because there wouldn't be that big question mark over his head. He's still, in some ways, an unknown quantity, a player who has to make a bit of a jump in order to be as good as people think he is.

His last two years were a big waste, under Fergie and then Moyes. If they weren't then maybe in the summer of 2014 there wouldn't have been any questions regarding Welbeck, one way or the other. But those years were wasted and now we found ourselves with a player who is two years older and still not anywhere near the final product (at least I hope so, for his sake). And, the bottom line, just not good enough right now for us.

That's a fair assessment of where Welbeck stands right now.

At the end of the day, if we'd have got the £20 - 25M we should have got in today's market (Lallana went for £25M after all), we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Quite possible that.

 

[PedroMendez]

It's only a matter of interpretation but i think that we replaced Welbeck with Wilson and Hernandez with Falcao. Which makes a lot of sense.

this interpretation just doesnt make sense. Chica was always a joker/impact sub/squad player. Falcao will be a nailed on starter. You cant replace on with the other.

Welbeck reached an age, where being a squad player just isnt good enough anymore (understandably) and United didnt trust him to lead the lines - a assessment that I can also understand. Its sensible to allow players to leave, if they are not happy with their situation.
Its not really that big of a deal or that special. It happens all the time.

What makes the situation comical is, that the overwhelming part of the caf always overrated him. The general consensus was, that he was already very good with worldclass potential. Thats obviously bonkers. After he left this assessment changed dramatically. Now he is even worse than fecking Sandro, which is also nonsense.
He is a good player, who isnt good enough to lead the lines for United this year. Arsenal´s style will suit him very well, so joining them was a resonable decision. He´ll surprise a couple of fans. Eventually the fee should have been around 20-23m, but I dont think that would make a big difference.

 

[JPRouve]

this interpretation just doesnt make sense. Chica was always a joker/impact sub/squad player. Falcao will be a nailed on starter. You cant replace on with the other.

Welbeck reached an age, where being a squad player just isnt good enough anymore (understandably) and United didnt trust him to lead the lines - a assessment that I can also understand. Its sensible to allow players to leave, if they are not happy with their situation.
Its not really that big of a deal or that special. It happens all the time.

What makes the situation comical is, that the overwhelming part of the caf always overrated him. The general consensus was, that he was already very good with worldclass potential. Thats obviously bonkers. After he left this assessment changed dramatically. Now he is even worse than fecking Sandro, which is also nonsense.
He is a good player, who isnt good enough to lead the lines for United this year. Arsenal´s style will suit him very well, so joining them was a resonable decision. He´ll surprise a couple of fans. Eventually the fee should have been around 20-23m, but I dont think that would make a big difference.

It makes a lot of sense, if we want 3 prolific strikers, Welbeck isn't one of them, Hernandez isn't good enough to stay. Which means that Welbeck would have been fourth choice, place who i suppose in LVG mind is a place for "juice" players, so Welbeck is eliminated by Wilson.

 

[PedroMendez]

thats exactly what I am saying. Welbeck had to decide whether he wanted to be 4th choice or leave. Van gaal said in the presser, that he has to be honest with the players and talked to welbeck about his future. I think both came to the understanding that its better for him to leave. No hard feelings.
If van gaal wants to play with two central forwards, buying falcao actually makes a lot of sense, because you can have three top class striker for two positions; especially if one of them is injury prone. Welbeck leaving is the logical consequence.

 

[JPRouve]

thats exactly what I am saying. Welbeck had to decide whether he wanted to be 4th choice or leave. Van gaal said in the presser, that he has to be honest with the players and talked to welbeck about his future. I think both came to the understanding that its better for him to leave. No hard feelings.
If van gaal wants to play with two central forwards, buying falcao actually makes a lot of sense, because you can have three top class striker for two positions; especially if one of them is injury prone. Welbeck leaving is the logical consequence.

Sorry then, i misinterpreted this sentence.

Replacing Welbz with Falcao is a weird move but there cant be any doubts about who is the better playe

 

[Turnip]

It's a real shame we lost Danny as a homegrown lad, but at the same time, keeping homegrown talent in the squa dis a bit of a luxury really, and right now we can't afford it if we're meant to be reaching that 3rd place target that keeps being thrown around. Sad to see him go, but its probably for the best from him point of view.

 

[PedroMendez]

Sorry then, i misinterpreted this sentence.

imo: buying falcao implicates, that van gaal wants to use two central forwards. I cant remember that he ever used two CFs, so its fairly uncharacteristic and surprising. I am a bit sceptical of systems with two cfs, but I have no doubt that it can work.

 

[ivaldo]

I know it's convenient to weight up goals and assists only but football game is more then that. Link up play, pace and movement, stretching defense, one-twos, pressuring defenders and bringing other players into play also plays a big part to the game.

I unreservedly agree. That said you would expect more than 8 from a whole career. it highlights the problem people had with him - End Product. He displayed the very reason why this stat is so low against Switzerland. Ultimately end product is what it comes down to as an attacking player.

 

[Amar__]

I do understand where you are coming from but there is a difference. A fit sandro is better than a fit welbeck unlike anderson which is where I think the distinction needs to be made.

Except he isn't.

 

[Empire]

There is not just 1 game (Real Madrid) only when Rooney is dropped. There are more.
I remember another game was Spurs. Not so sure if dropping Rooney for Welbeck against Spurs means to be because of the immense stamina to stop a specific player. Rooney has a tank stamina as well.
If you think play Welbeck means build a team that can run a lot or if you think all Welbeck does is just "run" then you might need to watch more of him.

I said Welbeck is inferior to Rooney, he is not the better player and he was chosen for Stamina against Real Madrid. Tell me where I said I think 'all Welbeck does is just run' and if you can't then stop making stuff to try and prove your point, making stuff up is what noobs do.

Louis van Gaal is not going to include Welbeck over Rooney just because he has stamina, look into Louis van Gaal's philosophy, it differs from David Moyes.

You have now named two games, I'm not even aware of the Spurs one so somebody else would have to confirm whether Rooney was dropped because he was not good enough. But Ferguson was manager of United for more than two games and I've seen nothing to suggest Welbeck was rated over Rooney.

I have stated Welbeck was considered inferior to both Rooney and RVP by three managers now, I'm not quite sure why you seem to think Ferguson felt Welbeck to be better than Rooney.

 

[JSMHE]

I said Welbeck is inferior to Rooney, he is not the better player and he was chosen for Stamina against Real Madrid. Tell me where I said I think 'all Welbeck does is just run' and if you can't then stop making stuff to try and prove your point, making stuff up is what noobs do.

Before you call someone noobs, try not to jump into conclusion first.
noobs is usually when someone just straight away come to conclusion. Read first what I just said before jump into conclusion.

I said:

If you think play Welbeck means build a team that can run a lot or if you think all Welbeck does is just "run" then you might need to watch more of him.

And you said

Sorry Louis van Gaal does not want to be David Moyes and build a team that can run a lot.

So I said "OR" since I don't know what exactly you mean by "build a team that can run a lot" I'm guessing two scenario.
One what you meant was if a manager plays Welbeck means he wants a team that can run a lot
OR
two another scenario is if you think all Welbeck does is just run.

Just because a manager wants Welbeck doesn't mean he wants to build a team who can run a lot.

Sorry but how many times do I need to say this again. You seem don't get my point here. I might need to explain it again. Rooney is dropped for Welbeck not just against Real Madrid! His role was against Real Madrid was indeed to stop Alonso + make a quick counter attack which I knew it already. But I was not just talking about one game only here. What about other games like Spurs and the others where Rooney is dropped for Welbeck. I can't see Dembele or Parker is needed to be stopped by a specific player like Welbeck. I didn't see him does that role against Spurs and the other games when Rooney is dropped. I knew his role against Real. But for other games, his role is different. Rooney is dropped in other games because Rooney played poor.

Louis van Gaal is not going to include Welbeck over Rooney just because he has stamina, look into Louis van Gaal's philosophy, it differs from David Moyes.

You have now named two games, I'm not even aware of the Spurs one so somebody else would have to confirm whether Rooney was dropped because he was not good enough. But Ferguson was manager of United for more than two games and I've seen nothing to suggest Welbeck was rated over Rooney.

I have stated Welbeck was considered inferior to both Rooney and RVP by three managers now, I'm not quite sure why you seem to think Ferguson felt Welbeck to be better than Rooney.

Stop talking about "differs" from Moyes.
You seem have no idea about Moyes. Moyes loves Rooney. He always pick Rooney ahead of Welbeck just like LVG. Sir Alex is the one who likes Welbeck. Not Moyes. Last season when Welbeck was on fire scored 6 goals in 7 games, Moyes benched him straight away for two months because Rooney and RVP were back. When Welbeck played better than Rooney in Munich games and also when Rooney is clearly unfit, Moyes decided to took off Welbeck instead of Rooney the one who had a bad game.

You are missing my point again, you are just repeating my words. This is what I meant the whole time. When a player played bad, that's what the manager needs to do, drop the player and give the other players who want and can do something and impress the manager like Welbeck. That's what Sir Alex had always done to every players for giving them fair chance.
But not for Moyes last season with us and also not what LVG did so far with us. I meant Rooney had a bad game since Sunderland game, and yet he played full 90 mins. RVP was clearly unfit and yet he played starter. Welbeck deserved at least a league starter match before the manager decided to make a judgment to sell him. If he's not good enough after given a fair chance then I understand if he is sold. But he hasn't get the fair enough chance to impress the manager even after only 10 mins in each 2 league games, he played like our best attackers (except for Di Maria).

I have stated Welbeck was considered inferior to both Rooney and RVP by three managers now, I'm not quite sure why you seem to think Ferguson felt Welbeck to be better than Rooney.

I never say Ferguson thought Welbeck is better than Rooney, I said Welbeck convince Sir Alex to drop Rooney for Welbeck. What I meant was when a player played bad (like Rooney) and the other played good (like Welbeck for example) then the manager needs to drop the bad one who play bad for other players who wants to play and can make something happen. And that's what Ferguson always did. He gives for each players fair chances to impress him.

 

[adexkola]

All the arguing is irrelevant. It's up to Welbeck to prove LVG wrong. I hope he does.

 

[JustAFan]

67 pages and he has not even made his debut with them yet.

As I expect him to score a bunch of goals this season mainly because he will get more games upfront for them then he would have gotten at United, this is going to be one of the largest threads in forum history isn't it?

 

[JustAFan]

All the arguing is irrelevant. It's up to Welbeck to prove LVG wrong. I hope he does.

Actually best outcome is for him to prove he is a good player and for LvG to prove that he built a great United side without him.

 

[Seveneric]

All the arguing is irrelevant. It's up to Welbeck to prove LVG wrong. I hope he does.

This. It's what it boils down to at the end, if Welbeck has a subpar time at Arsenal, then LVG's decision would have been vindicated. If he goes on to become prolific at Arsenal(hopefully) and Falcao 'underperforms', then we'll see.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Dwight Yorke: "When you look at players like Lallana, who went for £25 million, it's a little disappointing to only receive £16 million for Danny, who is a far superior player."

 

[Empire]

Before you call someone noobs, try not to jump into conclusion first.
noobs is usually when someone just straight away come to conclusion. Read first what I just said before jump into conclusion.

I said:


And you said


So I said "OR" since I don't know what exactly you mean by "build a team that can run a lot" I'm guessing two scenario.
One what you meant was if a manager plays Welbeck means he wants a team that can run a lot
OR
two another scenario is if you think all Welbeck does is just run.

Just because a manager wants Welbeck doesn't mean he wants to build a team who can run a lot.

Sorry but how many times do I need to say this again. You seem don't get my point here. I might need to explain it again. Rooney is dropped for Welbeck not just against Real Madrid! His role was against Real Madrid was indeed to stop Alonso + make a quick counter attack which I knew it already. But I was not just talking about one game only here. What about other games like Spurs and the others where Rooney is dropped for Welbeck. I can't see Dembele or Parker is needed to be stopped by a specific player like Welbeck. I didn't see him does that role against Spurs and the other games when Rooney is dropped. I knew his role against Real. But for other games, his role is different. Rooney is dropped in other games because Rooney played poor.



Stop talking about "differs" from Moyes.
You seem have no idea about Moyes. Moyes loves Rooney. He always pick Rooney ahead of Welbeck just like LVG. Sir Alex is the one who likes Welbeck. Not Moyes. Last season when Welbeck was on fire scored 6 goals in 7 games, Moyes benched him straight away for two months because Rooney and RVP were back. When Welbeck played better than Rooney in Munich games and also when Rooney is clearly unfit, Moyes decided to took off Welbeck instead of Rooney the one who had a bad game.

You are missing my point again, you are just repeating my words. This is what I meant the whole time. When a player played bad, that's what the manager needs to do, drop the player and give the other players who want and can do something and impress the manager like Welbeck. That's what Sir Alex had always done to every players for giving them fair chance.
But not for Moyes last season with us and also not what LVG did so far with us. I meant Rooney had a bad game since Sunderland game, and yet he played full 90 mins. RVP was clearly unfit and yet he played starter. Welbeck deserved at least a league starter match before the manager decided to make a judgment to sell him. If he's not good enough after given a fair chance then I understand if he is sold. But he hasn't get the fair enough chance to impress the manager even after only 10 mins in each 2 league games, he played like our best attackers (except for Di Maria).




I never say Ferguson thought Welbeck is better than Rooney, I said Welbeck convince Sir Alex to drop Rooney for Welbeck. What I meant was when a player played bad (like Rooney) and the other played good (like Welbeck for example) then the manager needs to drop the bad one who play bad for other players who wants to play and can make something happen. And that's what Ferguson always did. He gives for each players fair chances to impress him.

I'm not sure why such a simple matter you have made into a long discussion, I'll keep my post concise.

- It was quite clear I did not say all Welbeck can do is run therefore there was absolutely no reason for you to suggest that might be something I think to be true.

- You base your notion Ferguson preferred Welbeck over Rooney on two games where Welbeck was selected. This does not in anyway shape or form suggest Ferguson preferred Welbeck as a player centrally to Rooney. Two games...

- The manager had to make a decision before the transfer window finished, he had an assessment on Welbeck to that point and opted for Rooney, RVP, Falcao and Wilson. He had clearly seen enough to know Welbeck is not nor will achieve the level of Rooney, RVP and Falcao.

- I am also sure like SAF if Falcao, Rooney, RVP, Mata or Wilson plays bad they will be dropped. Currently though he clearly wants his best players to get maximum game time so they can learn this system and advance in his process.

- You also admitted SAF didn't think Rooney was the better player. Therefore if 3 managers preferred Rooney and RVP over Welbeck, clearly he is not good enough.

 

[adexkola]

Actually best outcome is for him to prove he is a good player and for LvG to prove that he built a great United side without him.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[JustAFan]

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

That is what I have said a few times. It could turn into a win-win for all involved, just not too much win for Arsenal.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Dwight Yorke: "When you look at players like Lallana, who went for £25 million, it's a little disappointing to only receive £16 million for Danny, who is a far superior player."

I made that point earlier today, Yorkie needs to keep up!

 

[Archie Leach]

I'm looking forward to see him run out tomorrow against City. A tough first test.

Oh Danny boy, the Danny boys are Danny boy.