Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player

[Barca84]

LVG nails it. Not enough goals and not up to the standard required. And for those who haven't been paying attention he has a track record of gving youth a chance and there are squad places up for grabs if any academy products are good enough. Meanwhile Falcao scores with his first touch in training.

A Falcao hattrick v QPR closes this thread I reckon.

 

[Robbie Boy]

6 goals in 7 games. This is going to be the new catchphrase on here. Like the whole "if Ando wasn't injured so much he would have been world class" spiel. People skewing stats in a major way to make 'Welbz (shudder)' appear to be something that he isn't. Why don't we judge him based on his actual stats and actually watching him play.

 

[saivet]

That is fair enough, but the press are playing it as though he is criticising us selling him in the first place, the old local lad angle. That isn't what he said at all.

It's typical of the papers to do that but if you listen to the interview it's been blown out of proportion.

 

[Amar__]

Sandro is still a very good player if he finds form and fitness. Many would agree. At his best he was better than anything we had in midfield at the time I made that post.

Welbeck still won't score many goals and the only reason people are pining for him is because he's a local lad who we produced.

Why don't people pine for the thousands of other academy lads that never made the grade here?

Fact is, the defenders of Welbeck can bang on about him being played out of position but if he was good enough then he wouldn't have been. Van Gaal has been ruthless and I'd much rather that than keeping someone out of sentimentality. Now if he can just get rid of Fletcher and permanently sell Cleverley...

Yeah, and still he finished at QPR, team that will probably be relegated again, with Harry "I will sign anyone" Redknap, while Welbeck end up in team that will play Champions league.

I wonder why Spurs and Arsenal were pining over him, it must be because people working there are Manchester United fans too.

People don't pine about others simply because Welbeck is clearly much better than thousands of other players we produced and sold.

It's just you who is underrating everything that's ours and overrate player of other teams. Must be the thing with cows Fergie was talking about.

 

[Rednotdead]

I understand if LVG does not want to take risk. Moyes took a risk for trusting players and we end up 7th. But again, from all the position we should try to strength is shouldn't be strikers. The thing what I don't understand is he doesn't even give Welbeck enough chance or starter in the league to show what he can do. He gave it to Hernandez, Young and Valencia. But not for Welbeck and not even Tom Lawrence in capital one cup.
And last season Welbeck isn't one of the players which caused us 7th. His goal scoring record last season was very good. 6 goals in 7 games.

If we could sign the best striker like Falcao then I'm sure it won't be too hard to sign the best centre back Hummels especially when last season Klopp said Dortmund is still a selling club. We need experience in defense more than in strikers.

It was better for him to move on but the way how LVG handles some players is pretty much unfair

The top clubs in the world don't put players in the team just "to show what they can do". This isn't a Sunday League team. Players force their way in or prove their credentials at other clubs and we buy them.

 

[Empire]

6 goals in 7 games? I think he took those chances nicely done last season. But Moyes decided to bench him straight away for 2 months when he was on fire in those 7 games.
Unfortunately LVG hasn't give him a single starter in the league to show what he can do. I think it's unfair for LVG and Moyes to treat him. It's odd how he comments on why we sold Welbeck. It's like he was talking about the past and stats without looking at where he spent most of his games and how he plays in those seasons.

Sir Alex always give any players fair chance when you play good. Welbeck was on fire on those 7 games, I'm sure if it's Sir Alex, he won't drop him for two months even with Rooney and RVP come back from injury. We saw what happen in 2005/2006. RVN was still better than Saha, RVN was a world class in that season. But Saha also played well, so he gave Saha a fair chance even if it meant by dropping such a world class player like RVN.

Yeah Sir Alex gave him a fair chance by demanding he plays on the left flank tasking him with a lot of defensive responsibility.

Last month many Arsenal fans wouldn't have rated him but how things change

The reality is Welbeck has not done enough to convince SAF, Moyes and now LvG to give him a consistent run in his preferred position. He has basically been replaced by Wilson since Wilson's potential far exceeds Welbeck's.

Louis van Gaal had a decision to make, Welbeck or Wilson. And he made his decision.

 

[Oneunited26]

And he was played out wide because he wasn't good enough in front of goal to knock rvp or Rooney from the position. It's not unfair because welbeck had his chances and failed to capitalise on them. I think it's simply welbeck wanted to play centrally, he was never going to knock rvp or Rooney out (plus emergence of falcao) and I think lvg was more likely to give Wilson chances in those positions to mature him as a footballer rather than give them to welbeck.

Both rooney and RVP have been poor for a while now, yea they have scored goals (in the past) but their performances this season have been god awful. RVP and rooney combined have scored 1 goal this season, yea that is high standards welbeck has got to reach, who has not started one PL game this season. For me there is some big changes needed to the striker position come next summer

I agree. Found LvG's comments a bit odd. It's not like Rooney or RvP have looked "United quality" this season or for most of last.

Ah but in VG's eyes he has not lived up to these so called standards that Rooney and VP have set, van gaal makes out Rooney and RVP have been in Ronaldo and messi form

 

[JSMHE]

The top clubs in the world don't put players in the team just "to show what they can do". This isn't a Sunday League team. Players force their way in or prove their credentials at other clubs and we buy them.

Yes agree. But when a player like RVP was unfit. Rooney and Mata played bad recently. Top manager should has some balls to drop one of them for other players who is trying to impress the manager. LVG said that every players will get chances to impress him. Unfortunately, Welbeck didn't get the chance to impress him. He gave it to Hernandez, Cleverley, Young and Valencia. But not for Welbeck.

 

[JSMHE]

Yeah Sir Alex gave him a fair chance by demanding he plays on the left flank tasking him with a lot of defensive responsibility.

Last month many Arsenal fans wouldn't have rated him but how things change

The reality is Welbeck has not done enough to convince SAF, Moyes and now LvG to give him a consistent run in his preferred position. He has basically been replaced by Wilson since Wilson's potential far exceeds Welbeck's.

Louis van Gaal had a decision to make, Welbeck or Wilson. And he made his decision.

Unfortunately we saw some games SAF dropped Rooney for Welbeck. Welbeck has done enough in that season to convince SAF to drop Rooney.

 

[Enigma_87]

What exactly is your point?

That we need to see more from Morata to make a proper comparison with Welbeck and also he has 2 years on Welbeck in which he'll probably develop some of his abilities.

 

[Gerald G]

I understand if LVG does not want to take risk. Moyes took a risk for trusting players and we end up 7th. But again, from all the position we should try to strength is shouldn't be strikers. The thing what I don't understand is he doesn't even give Welbeck enough chance or starter in the league to show what he can do. He gave it to Hernandez, Young and Valencia. But not for Welbeck and not even Tom Lawrence in capital one cup.
And last season Welbeck isn't one of the players which caused us 7th. His goal scoring record last season was very good. 6 goals in 7 games.

If we could sign the best striker like Falcao then I'm sure it won't be too hard to sign the best centre back Hummels especially when last season Klopp said Dortmund is still a selling club. We need experience in defense more than in strikers.

It was better for him to move on but the way how LVG handles some players is pretty much unfair

Welbeck was injured for the first league game. He came back from injury for the 2nd league game but RVP started and Welbeck came on for the last 30 mins. He started vs MK Dons in the 4-0 defeat but then was dropped to the bench vs Burnley for van Persie + Rooney.

Van Gaal has seen him in pre-season and in training to form his opinion. He clearly didn't impress him enough. It's that simple.

And the bit in bold, I'm not quite sure it works like that.

 

[Gerald G]

Unfortunately we saw some games SAF dropped Rooney for Welbeck. Welbeck has done enough in that season to convince SAF to drop Rooney.

You mean ONE game vs Madrid. Where Sir Alex got Welbeck to man mark Alonso?

 

[RedRonaldo]

6 goals in 7 games. This is going to be the new catchphrase on here. Like the whole "if Ando wasn't injured so much he would have been world class" spiel. People skewing stats in a major way to make 'Welbz (shudder)' appear to be something that he isn't. Why don't we judge him based on his actual stats and actually watching him play.

How could you judge a player stats as a striker when when he spend most of his time in either substitute bench or playing out of position?

The only fair way to judge should be based on the number of starts he made on his preferred position.

And he usually played well in terms of all round play.

 

[JSMHE]

Welbeck was injured for the first league game. He came back from injury for the 2nd league game but RVP started and Welbeck came on for the last 30 mins. He started vs MK Dons in the 4-0 defeat but then was dropped to the bench vs Burnley for van Persie + Rooney.

Van Gaal has seen him in pre-season and in training to form his opinion. He clearly didn't impress him enough. It's that simple.

And the bit in bold, I'm not quite sure it works like that.

Welbeck did really well in pre season. It seems we look way better in 352 when he played front with Rooney. We looked worse in pre season when Welbeck is injured including this season matches.

Yeah the way how it works is not like that. But you got my point right? We signed Falcao a player who hasn't play in Champion League for 5 years and yet he doesn't mind to choose us. Monaco is willing to let him go for loan as long as we have the money.
As what Klopp said before and also I agree that Dortmund is still a selling club. If we offer enough money to selling club, they will listen.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Yes agree. But when a player like RVP was unfit. Rooney and Mata played bad recently. Top manager should has some balls to drop one of them for other players who is trying to impress the manager. LVG said that every players will get chances to impress him. Unfortunately, Welbeck didn't get the chance to impress him. He gave it to Hernandez, Cleverley, Young and Valencia. But not for Welbeck.

He also booted out two of them and the remaining 2 are perfectly willing to play squad roles in their non-preferred positions. Something Welbeck wasn't fond of doing.

 

[JSMHE]

You mean ONE game vs Madrid. Where Sir Alex got Welbeck to man mark Alonso?

Spurs as well. There are more man. Not just Real Madrid or ONE game.

 

[Enigma_87]

Yes agree. But when a player like RVP was unfit. Rooney and Mata played bad recently. Top manager should has some balls to drop one of them for other players who is trying to impress the manager. LVG said that every players will get chances to impress him. Unfortunately, Welbeck didn't get the chance to impress him. He gave it to Hernandez, Cleverley, Young and Valencia. But not for Welbeck.

Really? Welbeck played in 3 of the 4 official games this season, scoring 0 goals even against MK Dons side in 3rd division.

In the preseason Welbeck started against LA Galaxy, Roma, Inter, Real and missed the last two due to injury. That's seven games.

 

[Kevin]

And the bit in bold, I'm not quite sure it works like that.

Point is, if we wanted him as much as we wanted Di Maria or Falcao, we could have just slapped 60 million bid on him and I am sure Dortmund would have second thoughts.

 

[JSMHE]

He also booted out two of them and the remaining 2 are perfectly willing to play squad roles in their non-preferred positions. Something Welbeck wasn't fond of doing.

He looked like the most lively and dangerous and our best attackers in those games even played less mins. Should deserve a chance for starter in the league ahead of unfit RVP.

 

[Speak]

Point is, if we wanted him as much as we wanted Di Maria or Falcao, we could have just slapped 60 million bid on him and I am sure Dortmund would have second thoughts.

Their circumstances were completely different. But, like you say, money talks.

 

[JSMHE]

Really? Welbeck played in 3 of the 4 official games this season, scoring 0 goals even against MK Dons side in 3rd division.

In the preseason Welbeck started against LA Galaxy, Roma, Inter, Real and missed the last two due to injury. That's seven games.

Yeah about 10 mins for each league games and play 90 mins with kids in Capital One Cup. How can a striker score goals if the service doesn't come for him enough against MK Dons, and yet he was our best player in MK Dons game. And also out best attackers in Sunderland and Bunrley game (except for Di Maria) I'm not sure if it's fair chance he had.

It seems you forgot what is the point of pre season. It's just a fitness game. Nothing more.

 

[Gerald G]

Point is, if we wanted him as much as we wanted Di Maria or Falcao, we could have just slapped 60 million bid on him and I am sure Dortmund would have second thoughts.

Yeah. But Di Maria wasn't wanted at Madrid so they wanted to sell and no-one in their right mind would bid £60m for a centre-back.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He looked like the most lively and dangerous and our best attackers in those games even played less mins. Should deserve a chance for starter in the league ahead of unfit RVP.

We looked a consistently more threatening side in every game Welbeck played under Van Gaal, whether that be pre-season or coming off the bench in the league. The one and only exception being the CC game, where he was surrounded by dross so it's best ignored.

All of which means he probably did deserve to start at least one league game ahead of RvP (consistently our worst striker). Although, to be fair to Van Gaal, RvP has the kind of pedigree where a manager might continue to play him even when not on form, as it's so important to the team that he plays his way back into form. Same has been true of Rooney many times under Fergie.

 

[Amir]

Yeah about 10 mins for each league games and play 90 mins with kids in Capital One Cup. How can a striker score goals if the service doesn't come for him enough against MK Dons, and yet he was our best player in MK Dons game.

The same could be said for Rooney and Van Persie, who haven't received too much service. But we know what they are capable of. Welbeck is still a question mark. And Van Gaal, from his point of view, has just answered it: Not good enough.

 

[Gerald G]

Yeah about 10 mins for each league games and play 90 mins with kids in Capital One Cup. How can a striker score goals if the service doesn't come for him enough against MK Dons, and yet he was our best player in MK Dons game. And also out best attackers in Sunderland and Bunrley game (except for Di Maria) I'm not sure if it's fair chance he had.

It seems you forgot what is the point of pre season. It's just a fitness game. Nothing more.

You do know the manager sees them in training, right?

 

[Enigma_87]

Yeah about 10 mins for each league games and play 90 mins with kids in Capital One Cup. How can a striker score goals if the service doesn't come for him enough against MK Dons, and yet he was our best player in MK Dons game. And also out best attackers in Sunderland and Bunrley game (except for Di Maria) I'm not sure if it's fair chance he had.

It seems you forgot what is the point of pre season. It's just a fitness game. Nothing more.

He received more time than Hernandez for example and featured in most of the games. LvG had 2 months in which Welbeck trained and played part in 90% of the games, others he was injured. He's also not Bebe so he knows about him from the past. He sold him in the last minutes of the window so there was no more time to assess him. With Falcao, RvP and Rooney in our team I don't think Welbeck will play the part he want and he's not good enough compared to them, which is fair as there are not many forwards better than those 3.

Yeah. But Di Maria wasn't wanted at Madrid so they wanted to sell and no-one in their right mind would bid £60m for a centre-back.

David Luiz says hi.

 

[Dante]

Welbeck simply didn't fit LvG's famed philosophy.

Danny is good enough for a club of our standing, but evidently not direct enough for the way the manager wants to play. Van Gaal seemingly likes workers in the midfield and defence, and strikers who come alive in the box. Welbeck operates differently. He'll still get you goals, but is more likely to make a run down the channel or open up space for a teammate than sprint for the near post himself. He's still an extremely talented player, but the skillset he brings obviously isn't what LvG expects of a striker in the top 4. Wenger disagrees.

I reckon that van Gaal would have done the same thing with Tevez and Hughes. Neither was great in the box at United. The fact United's 4 current strikers are all in the same mould tells its own story.

Good enough, but the wrong fit.

 

[JSMHE]

The same could be said for Rooney and Van Persie, who haven't received too much service. But we know what they are capable of. Welbeck is still a question mark. And Van Gaal, from his point of view, has just answered it: Not good enough.

We got Di Maria and Mata and the unfit RVP and Rooney didn't do enough. I understand Rooney didn't get enough service, but when Welbeck came on, he looks way more lively and dangerous than Rooney. And during Burnley game, I'm sure RVP got a some chances from Di Maria to score goals, and I understand RVP was unfit and Welbeck should start in that game.

 

[Sassy Colin]

This guy appears to be the Messiah.

I know it's not his fault, but the press are bigging him up so much and taking the opportunity of bashing United at every opportunity.

If he was really that good, he would have forced himself into the starting 11, the way Giggs/Scholes/Beckham/Gary did all those years ago. Lest be honest, we haven't produced any of the World class quality of them since then.

 

[JSMHE]

He received more time than Hernandez for example and featured in most of the games. LvG had 2 months in which Welbeck trained and played part in 90% of the games, others he was injured. He's also not Bebe so he knows about him from the past. He sold him in the last minutes of the window so there was no more time to assess him. With Falcao, RvP and Rooney in our team I don't think Welbeck will play the part he want and he's not good enough compared to them, which is fair as there are not many forwards better than those 3.


.

We got 3 league games.
Hernandez got his 45 mins in the league and played as a starter and in the end it was a disappointment performance. Welbeck got about 20 mins in two league games. I can't see Welbeck received it more time under LVG than Hernandez. Just because he played two games (from the bench) doesn't mean he received it fair. Welbeck got more features but only 10 mins each. Surely that's not fair and enough to impress the manager by scoring goals. And yet he played like our best attackers in those 10 mins each.

Training, If we are talking about Tevez, I'm sure we all know that he was such a terrible trainer since never give 100% in training. And it seems LVG judges him based on goals scoring record in overall of the past without looking where he spent his games time and last season record. I don't think training is enough to show if you are a great or bad goal scorer. Some players score more goals in training but less goals in games. Welbeck is sold without getting fair chances from LVG even though he showed that he was our most dangerous attackers in our recently games.

 

[JSMHE]

You do know the manager sees them in training, right?

You probably forgot or don't know that Tevez was a terrible trainer. And yet SAF is still giving him fair chances to impress him in the games. And in the games are what we call the place to impress the manager. If Welbeck didn't get enough then it's unfair to judge him for good or not good enough.

 

[Hed Zitin]

Where was he last season when Rooney and RvP were injured and we needed his goals?

 

[sammsky1]

Yeah Sir Alex gave him a fair chance by demanding he plays on the left flank tasking him with a lot of defensive responsibility.

Last month many Arsenal fans wouldn't have rated him but how things change

The reality is Welbeck has not done enough to convince SAF, Moyes and now LvG to give him a consistent run in his preferred position. He has basically been replaced by Wilson since Wilson's potential far exceeds Welbeck's.

Louis van Gaal had a decision to make, Welbeck or Wilson. And he made his decision.

It was the elephant in the room and everyone was walking around Welcbecjk to accommodate him, simply because of his birthplace.

He is no longer the 'youthful local youngster' so cannot take up that slot. Neither was he good enough for the 'super sub' role as his profligacy in front of goal was obvious to even his most ardent supporters. At his age, the likes of rooney, RVP, Falcao etc were forcing their way into teams and being first choices. Wel=beck was far from that status at Old Trafford.

It may be emotionally difficulty to accept, but the fact is our local boy was simply not good enough to be first choice striker. Most of the times, these fairytales never come true. LVG made the right call. And Im glad he never sugarcoated his answer yesterday when asked.

 

[Robbie Boy]

How could you judge a player stats as a striker when when he spend most of his time in either substitute bench or playing out of position?

The only fair way to judge should be based on the number of starts he made on his preferred position.

And he usually played well in terms of all round play.

Well he has had numerous games up front and been awful. People will only use the stats that suit their argument; from both sides.

I remember the 4-4 against Everton in 2012 when Welbeck played brilliantly. My hopes for him back then were high but I feel he has stagnated and never really pushed on like I expected him to.

His finishing when playing out wide has often been horrendous. It makes no difference if he was played out of position; fact is, he often missed great chances that presented themselves to him. He is anything but a natural finisher.

The hysteria on here really is ridiculous. He is an average / good player and no more than that. People that would actually rather Welbeck to Falcao are living in lala land. I like him and I would have rathered a loan move or for him to stay. But it's not the end of the world and it's time to move on. I think Arsenal will invest in a better natural striker next summer and he will find himself in a similar predicament that he was in with us.

Expect plenty of fanfare / media-hype for a few months but it will gradually die down and Welbeck won't be held on this ridiculous mantle for more than a-few months.

 

[MJJ]

Yeah, and still he finished at QPR, team that will probably be relegated again, with Harry "I will sign anyone" Redknap, while Welbeck end up in team that will play Champions league.

I wonder why Spurs and Arsenal were pining over him, it must be because people working there are Manchester United fans too.

People don't pine about others simply because Welbeck is clearly much better than thousands of other players we produced and sold.

It's just you who is underrating everything that's ours and overrate player of other teams. Must be the thing with cows Fergie was talking about.

If welbeck had sandro's fitness record he would have ended up in a lot worse team than qpr. Its silly to ignore how injury prone sandro is when talking about him as a player.

 

[Kaos]

I was just glad to be alive when Danny Welbeck was playing for Manchester United. I'm not old enough to have witnessed Duncan Edwards and George Best, but I'm blessed enough to have seen Eric Cantona, Cristiano Ronaldo and Danny Welbeck play for us.

LGV out.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Well he has had numerous games up front and been awful. People will only use the stats that suit their argument; from both sides.

I remember the 4-4 against Everton in 2012 when Welbeck played brilliantly. My hopes for him back then were high but I feel he has stagnated and never really pushed on like I expected him to.

His finishing when playing out wide has often been horrendous. It makes no difference if he was played out of position; fact is, he often missed great chances that presented themselves to him. He is anything but a natural finisher.

The hysteria on here really is ridiculous. He is an average / good player and no more than that. People that would actually rather Welbeck to Falcao are living in lala land. I like him and I would have rathered a loan move or for him to stay. But it's not the end of the world and it's time to move on. I think Arsenal will invest in a better natural striker next summer and he will find himself in a similar predicament that he was in with us.

Expect plenty of fanfare / media-hype for a few months but it will gradually die down and Welbeck won't be held on this ridiculous mantle for more than a-few months.

Well I won't use missing great chances as a case to judge a young player. Yes he slipped a lot in the box and has often been ridiculed by fans, but apart from finishing bit he has done better outside the box than our other strikers. Yes finishing is big part for any striker, but he has proved he could finish much better than what you could remember when starting as a striker, as back up by last season stats and his international career.

 

[prateik]

Just heard the presser. Ouch.

 

[botond]

I was just glad to be alive when Danny Welbeck was playing for Manchester United. I'm not old enough to have witnessed Duncan Edwards and George Best, but I'm blessed enough to have seen Eric Cantona, Cristiano Ronaldo and Danny Welbeck play for us.

LGV out.

also moyes as manager , don't forget moyes

 

[Robbie Boy]

Well I won't use missing great chances as a case to judge a young player. Yes he slipped a lot in the box and has often been ridiculed by fans, but apart from finishing bit he has done better outside the box than our other strikers. Yes finishing is big part for any striker, but he has proved he could finish much better than what you could remember when starting as a striker, as back up by last season stats and his international career.

Well my point was more that for all the 'stats' that people use to proclaim him as some messiah, there are similar 'stats' to bash him.

He is being overrated beyond belief by some since his departure. The truth lies somewhere in the middle; he's a decent enough player but that's really it. He's not shit, nor is he the second coming of Pele.