Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player

[Amar__]

I just remembered this(should look at few other posts from that "Welbeck to Hull" thread):

Assuming everyone including Welbeck is fit and on top form.

Lloris - One of the world's best goalkeepers
Vertonghen - One of the world's best centre backs
Soldado - Scored at least 20 goals a season for the previous four years before he signed for Spurs. Welbeck will never score 20 goals in a season.
Adebayor - Again, on top form he's brilliant. Capable of scoring 20 goals+ if fit and on form.
Lamela - More impressive for Roma at his best than Welbeck has ever been for us. Will have a good year this year I think.
Eriksen - Same as Lamela. Very talented and capable of showing more. Did well last season given how shit everyone else was.
Sandro - A very good player if not injured.
Dembele - More impressive at Fulham than Welbeck has ever been for us.

Debateables are people like Lennon who a few years back seemed to provide every assist for Defoe, Crouch and whoever else to score. Granted he's usually incredibly frustrating unless he played against Evra and suddenly became the English Messi but his end product was nowhere near as bad as people say when he was on top form.

People need to face it. If he wasn't a Manchester lad who'd come through our academy, Welbeck would be nowhere near a top team. He may eventually turn out to be better than Hull but until he proves himself capable of leading the line up front then everyone but United fans will deride him as being crap.

How do you feel about Sandro signing for QPR and Welbeck for Arsenal?

 

[JohnnyLaw]

I do agree the service was woeful on the night, but when push comes to shove if we were to lose one of RVP and Rooney for a long period of time over the season I wouldnt depend on Welbeck to get us were we need to be at this moment in time, Chelsea and City have over taken us and we have reacted, simple as, It felt terrible to see Hernandez and Welbeck go but with our lack of goals from Midfield we really need our strikers performing this season.

Now we can honestly say all 3 of our strikers would walk in to any other team in the league, and if one of Falcao/Rooney or RVP gets injured not to worry, I do hope Danny proves us wrong as I like him as a player and all that but with whats at stake financially this season we need match winners in our attack, a teamsheet that scares the Citys and the Chelseas, teams cannot come to Old Trafford anymore and think they can get something, Di Maria, Rooney, Mata, Van Persie and Falcao give us that

He didn't do too shabby in the time they were gone last year. But you make an important Point in your post which is our over-reliance on our strikers. I Think that SAF and Moyes are mainly to blame for not strenghtening in the right places for too long. Had we been stronger in midfield we would have also been better prepared to nurture our talents as they wouldn't have as much pressure to perform as they do now. Another example is Januzaj, he shouldn't have had to deal with the pressure and expectations that were put on him last season, and Moyes actually handled him quite well IMO. Last year Danny scored 6 in 6, with more time in his correct position I Think that he could have easily reached around 20 goals in a season. Last year Lewandowski, Mandzukic and Benzema the strikers for the best teams in europe scored 28 (in 48), 26 (in 48) and 24 (in 52) goals in all competitions. The difference is they had players like Reus, Ronaldo, Robben and Ribery scoring around as many or more on their team, with those kind of surroundings Danny's contributions would've well sufficed. But instead of adding world class to our squad have been replacing the wc players that we already have with another wc player, making the difference pretty much +-0, stalling our progress.

 

[Paolo Di Canio]

He didn't do too shabby in the time they were gone last year. But you make an important Point in your post which is our over-reliance on our strikers. I Think that SAF and Moyes are mainly to blame for not strenghtening in the right places for too long. Had we been stronger in midfield we would have also been better prepared to nurture our talents as they wouldn't have as much pressure to perform as they do now. Another example is Januzaj, he shouldn't have had to deal with the pressure and expectations that were put on him last season, and Moyes actually handled him quite well IMO. Last year Danny scored 6 in 6, with more time in his correct position I Think that he could have easily reached around 20 goals in a season. Last year Lewandowski, Mandzukic and Benzema the strikers for the best teams in europe scored 28 (in 48), 26 (in 48) and 24 (in 52) goals in all competitions. The difference is they had players like Reus, Ronaldo, Robben and Ribery scoring around as many or more on their team, with those kind of surroundings Danny's contributions would've well sufficed. But instead of adding world class to our squad have been replacing the wc players that we already have with another wc player, making the difference pretty much +-0, stalling our progress.

Thats pretty much it, you see Arsenal with Giroud up front, City when Dzeko isnt doing it and pretty much Chelsea all of last year when there strikers werent doing it people like Ramsey, Toure, Hazard/Schurlle etc stepped up to get them over the line, last season I dont think our midfields even played a forward pass all season, and Young/Valencia only pop up with goals once in a blue moon. Its very noticeable in our game once one of our top strikers was missing and we needed other players in other positions to step up to the plate it didnt happen.

Danny was rather unfortunate in that last season was such a huge season for him personally being a WC year and RVPs injury record he really needed to step up and show the fans he is ready for the big leagues but the lack of service from midfield made him look worse than he actually is, Hernandez the same, when you play Welbeck in a system that suits him he flourishes i.e pacy counter attacking teams.

I didnt like Van Gaals comments about him today, he could of dealt with the question another way, it was a real spit in the face to him, I dont know whether there was a falling out or whether Van Gaal just is the kind of person to tell it how it is, Id imagine the latter TBH

 

[peterstorey]

Not MUQ

 

[JSMHE]

So LVG said he sold Welbeck because of his goal scoring record. Well, if he doesn't play as a striker and doesn't get fair chance then how can he scores enough goals.

 

[MDFC Manager]

well it's all conjecture at the moment. If he bangs in more than 20 goals for Arsenal this season, well, we will probably start thinking what ifs.. However, I wouldn't blame United or LVG for that. At this moment in time LVG knows and Danny knows that with only the FA cup and league to go for and with a riches up front, Danny was not going to get a lot of games and the ones he would get he'd probably be stuck on the wing. It was a decision right now that is fair to both parties..

...I still think Danny will find himself on the wing more often than not come the new year!!

We can't dwell on it even if he bangs them in for Arsenal. Because he wasn't going to get the chances to do that here anyway.

 

[ZDwyr]

So LVG said he sold Welbeck because of his goal scoring record. Well, if he doesn't play as a striker and doesn't get fair chance then how can he scores enough goals.

I agree. Found LvG's comments a bit odd. It's not like Rooney or RvP have looked "United quality" this season or for most of last.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I don't. I think Welbeck will be a useful player for them, a 'utility' attacker if you will, but he won't keep Giroud out of the team when he comes back.

Giroud is under-rated on here and Welbeck is wildly over-rated (since his sale at least).

It's not very wise to make such judgment without any hard evidence. If I were you I'd better save that comment at least until end of season or this may just backfire you later.

We all know Welbeck situation at United (3rd/4th choice behind regular starters like Rooney, RVP and Falcao), it's not fair to compare that way, just look at players like Sturridge, Pique and Pogba before judging further.

 

[JUPITER]

It's not very wise to make such judgment without any hard evidence. If I were you I'd better save that comment at least until end of season or this may just backfire you later.

We all know Welbeck situation at United (3rd/4th choice behind regular starters like Rooney, RVP and Falcao), it's not fair to compare that way, just look at players like Sturridge, Pique and Pogba before judging further.

I'm basing it on watching Welbeck play for his entire senior career. Like I said, I think he'll be a useful player for them, but he won't keep Giroud out of the team and he won't end up their first choice CF in the long run.

That said, at Arsenal he'll probably be less far down the pecking order than he was going to be here.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I'm basing it on watching Welbeck play for his entire senior career. Like I said, I think he'll be a useful player for them, but he won't keep Giroud out of the team and he won't end up their first choice CF in the long run.

That said, at Arsenal he'll probably be less far down the pecking order than he was going to be here.

I wouldn't think Giroud is such a big obstacles, I think they are more or less in similar level, but lets see.

 

[devilish]

VG was stating what every football fan who has no emotional attachment to Welbeck and England's national team mumbo jumbo would say. Welbeck doesn't score enough goals.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

To me, LVGs comments about Welbeck not having the record of RVP or Rooney seem pretty off the mark.
Welbeck is a young player, and a lot of his appearances at United have been out wide. He has never truly had a run of games as a striker - so to compare him to players who have been consistently played as strikers, and who are in their peak years, seems a really unfair comparison.

From the comments I've read, he's comparing then in terms of their usefulness to us now. People are just taking this in an unduly emotional sense given it's "Welbz".

 

[entropy]

I wouldn't think Giroud is such a big obstacles, I think they are more or less in similar level, but lets see.

You cannot be serious? Giroud was top scorer in the French league before moving to arsenal and scored 20 goals last season. I think welbeck is at a great stage in his career where he can prove himself as a top striker(if Wenger gives him enough opportunities) but he is not better than giroud.

 

[Rednotdead]

The thing about being a striker at any of the top clubs in the world is that you don't get to play in that position just to see if you're good enough - you force your way in by your performances in games and in training. Welbeck never did that. He never convinced Fergie, Moyes or Van Gaal that he deserved to be a first choice central striker.

People say "he never had a chance, if he'd had a run of games as a central striker he may have blossomed" or words to that effect. That would have been too much of a risk. That's not how it works.

He had plenty of chances but never quite made the grade.

 

[RedRonaldo]

You cannot be serious? Giroud was top scorer in the French league before moving to arsenal and scored 20 goals last season. I think welbeck is at a great stage in his career where he can prove himself as a top striker(if Wenger gives him enough opportunities) but he is not better than giroud.

I didn't say he is better either, but just not that far apart as some suggest here. Some Arsenal fans here may confirm their frustration over Giroud at times.

And before you want to use stats to support your view, may I remind you that Welbeck has far better mins per goal ratio last season.

 

[gasmanc]

Gary Neville and co sticking their oar in regarding this transfer, it's embarrassing to be honest.
Yes we've sold him to a rival but if we're in this for the short term then fair enough but we're not, top four isn't the requirement for a club this size we are aiming for top spot here and if we end up consistently competing with Arsenal and Wellbeck for top spot then I will show my arse on Salford Dock.
Yes it might adversely effect us this coming season but we're not here to battle it out for top four in the long run, right ?

 

[Robbie Boy]

You cannot be serious? Giroud was top scorer in the French league before moving to arsenal and scored 20 goals last season. I think welbeck is at a great stage in his career where he can prove himself as a top striker(if Wenger gives him enough opportunities) but he is not better than giroud.

Aye, Giroud is far better, in my opinion.

 

[RedRonaldo]

The thing about being a striker at any of the top clubs in the world is that you don't get to play in that position just to see if you're good enough - you force your way in by your performances in games and in training. Welbeck never did that. He never convinced Fergie, Moyes or Van Gaal that he deserved to be a first choice central striker.

People say "he never had a chance, if he'd had a run of games as a central striker he may have blossomed" or words to that effect. That would have been too much of a risk. That's not how it works.

He had plenty of chances but never quite made the grade.

To be fair few would have a chance when there is Rooney and RVP ahead of you.

Last season he did have a good run of games scoring a lot when RVP was out injured. Once everyone was back he didn't have a chance, no matter how well he performed.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I didn't say he is better either, but just not that far apart as some suggest here. Some Arsenal fans here may confirm their frustration over Giroud at times.

And before you want to use stats to support your view, may I remind you that Welbeck has far better mins per goal ratio last season.

The thing about Giroud though is that he's fantastic at bringing into play the rest of Arsenals attacking players. I don't think Ramsey would have had as good a season last season if it wasn't Giroud up front.

 

[Dante]

Welbeck's one touch play is made for Arsenal. He's probably the most tiki-taka forward in England. He'll bring his teammates () into play plenty.

 

[Archie Leach]

Poor Danny's gonna get it worse than Ozil if he has a bad match.

 

[gasmanc]

To be fair few would have a chance when there is Rooney and RVP ahead of you.

Last season he did have a good run of games scoring a lot when RVP was out injured. Once everyone was back he didn't have a chance, no matter how well he performed.

Falcao will get a chance, that's the difference between a Wellbeck and a top striker, this is coming from a big Wellbeck fan too.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I didnt like the "not good enough comment" but this is how world class teams operate, you think any of City, Chelsea, Bayern etc would go to MK Dons with two senior strikers and not even manage a shot, If we want to be the best we have to be ruthless again, Danny wouldnt of got a sniff in our teams of ghe past, we dropped our standards in the last 5 years and its put up.or shut up time, Welbeck as a starting striker didnt strike much fear into much opposition lets face it

That might have been the game that sealed his fate in a way. LvG would have been expecting more out of him. For all the lack of creativity you would think Danny would have been capable of creating something for himself. He just didn't seem interested.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

To be fair few would have a chance when there is Rooney and RVP ahead of you.

Last season he did have a good run of games scoring a lot when RVP was out injured. Once everyone was back he didn't have a chance, no matter how well he performed.

LvG is getting all the flak for this, but if Moyes was still here, god help us. Danny would have gone as well. SAF didn't trust him as a main striker or he wouldn't have bought RVP. I am just hoping that when James Wilson gets his chance he shows Danny how to make a big impression on the manager. LvG said yesterday it is up to the youth to take their chance when it is given to them. Maybe he didn't think Danny had entirely. Maybe he got the impression from Danny that he thought he was safe because he was a local lad. That should never be the case.

 

[saivet]

Gary Neville and co sticking their oar in regarding this transfer, it's embarrassing to be honest.
Yes we've sold him to a rival but if we're in this for the short term then fair enough but we're not, top four isn't the requirement for a club this size we are aiming for top spot here and if we end up consistently competing with Arsenal and Wellbeck for top spot then I will show my arse on Salford Dock.
Yes it might adversely effect us this coming season but we're not here to battle it out for top four in the long run, right ?

Why is it? He's an ex-United and England player, he's one of England's coaches and is a pundit. He was being interviewed on TalkSport and was asked about Welbeck, what do you want him to say? No comment.

Here's the link where he talks about Welbeck amongst other things.

 

[legball]

You'd think we sold Lionel Messi or Eric Cantona to Arsenal. Before that transfer, almost every one rated him as average, even most United fans too. He goes to Arsenal, suddenly he's world class, we have lost our identity and we will regret it, Christ on a freaking bike, what's wrong with you people, I don't get it. His problem was not being played on the wings, he is/was never clinical, whenever he gets a chance, he either doesn't control the ball well, fluffs his lines or falls over, and he misses easy chances very often. Would any one of you really trust Welbeck to lead your attack and mount a title challenge, I mean seriously? It's a bit like Kagawa, it's the fault of everything else that he didn't do well here, it's never a case of them not being able to apply themselves a bit better. Rooney played out of position to accomodate Ronaldo and he scored goals for fun, even better than he does these days. You know, players can still play out of position and do well. At this point in time, and having replaced him with Falcao, it was absolutely the right decision and kudos to LVG for being decisive with lots of his decisions, in a big job like managing United, you have to be decisive - Welbeck might turn out to score a billion goals at Arsenal in future, but right now, he's simply not that player, good decision by the manager. MOVE THE feck ON.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Why is it? He's an ex-United and England player, he's one of England's coaches and is a pundit. He was being interviewed on TalkSport and was asked about Welbeck, what do you want him to say? No comment.

Here's the link where he talks about Welbeck amongst other things.

To be fair, I think Gary was more surprised about the fact we sold him to Arsenal and for only £16m, not that we had sold him.

 

[badkins]

LVG was spot on.

We sold a nearly 24-year old player who hasn't provided goods as a striker for years, and he really had the time.
I rated Danny as a winger in all those big games, where his movement, work-rate and ability to play in short spaces were crucial.
You can always say "oh, he had Rooney and RVP" upfront, but that's bollocks - if you're young and class, you'll find a way and get chances. If he was all that, SAF wouldn't have signed RVP in a first place. It's not a coincidence Ferguson, Moyes and now LVG didn't rate him as a main striker - and two of them are well known for promoting youth.
Somehow Courtois managed to put Cech out of team, or young Muller convinced Van Gaal to get rid of Luca Toni, such examples can go on, and on.

He also said important thing - if you don't sell, you won't promote any new players - we have those in Januzaj and Wilson, who's 5 years younger and already looks more gifted at finishing. Of course it would be great to keep Welbeck as a squad player, but that's all he could achieve here. He wanted to move on, so he did. Good luck.

So did we, by signing the best "9" in the world in Falcao - that's the level we should be aiming at.

 

[saivet]

To be fair, I think Gary was more surprised about the fact we sold him to Arsenal and for only £16m, not that we had sold him.

That is essentially all he said yet some are annoyed at him.

 

[Gerald G]

ffs.

FWIW, I thought the scenario kag describes was fairly obvious all along.

I was joking on the 'this brought a tear to my eye'. I thought that was obvious.

 

[matherto]

I just remembered this(should look at few other posts from that "Welbeck to Hull" thread):

How do you feel about Sandro signing for QPR and Welbeck for Arsenal?

Sandro is still a very good player if he finds form and fitness. Many would agree. At his best he was better than anything we had in midfield at the time I made that post.

Welbeck still won't score many goals and the only reason people are pining for him is because he's a local lad who we produced.

Why don't people pine for the thousands of other academy lads that never made the grade here?

Fact is, the defenders of Welbeck can bang on about him being played out of position but if he was good enough then he wouldn't have been. Van Gaal has been ruthless and I'd much rather that than keeping someone out of sentimentality. Now if he can just get rid of Fletcher and permanently sell Cleverley...

 

[Rednotdead]

That is essentially all he said yet some are annoyed at him.

LVG didn't rate him therefore it was essentially irrelevant who we sold him to. £16m was the price the club considered fair, given that it freed up both his wages and a place in the squad.

I really don't see the grounds for any criticism by Neville.

 

[JSMHE]

To be fair, I think Gary was more surprised about the fact we sold him to Arsenal and for only £16m, not that we had sold him.

That was also the reason. And 16m is indeed a bargain price especially for English player. But I think he was also surprised how we sold him to our rival for getting Champion League spot. If we didn't sign Falcao, he's obviously doesn't want Welbeck to leave. But with Falcao here, and LVG seems don't wanna take a risk to give players fair chance like Sir Alex then Gary understands why Welbeck wanted to leave and Welbeck deserves to play more games.

 

[JSMHE]

LVG didn't rate him therefore it was essentially irrelevant who we sold him to. £16m was the price the club considered fair, given that it freed up both his wages and a place in the squad.

I really don't see the grounds for any criticism by Neville.

Rooney's wage is 5 or 6 time of his. Not that much and even really worth it for his contribution and lack of fair chances.

 

[saivet]

LVG didn't rate him therefore it was essentially irrelevant who we sold him to. £16m was the price the club considered fair, given that it freed up both his wages and a place in the squad.

I really don't see the grounds for any criticism by Neville.

It's quite simple really. He was citing how right back, average strikers (Long) have been transferred to similar fees, so we should have demanded more. I think that is fair enough.

Secondly, we're strengthening a rival at least up until December. We are likely to be competing with Arsenal for 3rd/4th spot. By selling to Arsenal, they no longer face having to start Sanogo for a few months.

I think both criticisms are perfectly understandable.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

That was also the reason. And 16m is indeed a bargain price especially for English player. But I think he was also surprised how we sold him to our rival for getting Champion League spot. If we didn't sign Falcao, he's obviously doesn't want Welbeck to leave. But with Falcao here, and LVG seems don't wanna take a risk to give players fair chance like Sir Alex then Gary understands why Welbeck wanted to leave and Welbeck deserves to play more games.

I don't think we can afford to take any risks this season. Last season has had some serious repercussions for us. We need to start winning and he doesn't want anyone in the background moaning about game time when games this season are at a premium. It was probably better he moved on.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It's quite simple really. He was citing how right back, average strikers (Long) have been transferred to similar fees, so we should have demanded more. I think that is fair enough.

Secondly, we're strengthening a rival at least up until December. We are likely to be competing with Arsenal for 3rd/4th spot. By selling to Arsenal, they no longer face having to start Sanogo for a few months.

I think both criticisms are perfectly understandable.

That is fair enough, but the press are playing it as though he is criticising us selling him in the first place, the old local lad angle. That isn't what he said at all.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Rooney's wage is 5 or 6 time of his. Not that much and even really worth it for his contribution and lack of fair chances.

He has probably missed too many big chances in important games for his own good. If he had taken the opportunity given to him he wouldn't have been sold. It isn't just LvG who has had doubts about him. Three managers can't all be stupid.

 

[JSMHE]

I don't think we can afford to take any risks this season. Last season has had some serious repercussions for us. We need to start winning and he doesn't want anyone in the background moaning about game time when games this season are at a premium. It was probably better he moved on.

I understand if LVG does not want to take risk. Moyes took a risk for trusting players and we end up 7th. But again, from all the position we should try to strength is shouldn't be strikers. The thing what I don't understand is he doesn't even give Welbeck enough chance or starter in the league to show what he can do. He gave it to Hernandez, Young and Valencia. But not for Welbeck and not even Tom Lawrence in capital one cup.
And last season Welbeck isn't one of the players which caused us 7th. His goal scoring record last season was very good. 6 goals in 7 games.

If we could sign the best striker like Falcao then I'm sure it won't be too hard to sign the best centre back Hummels especially when last season Klopp said Dortmund is still a selling club. We need experience in defense more than in strikers.

It was better for him to move on but the way how LVG handles some players is pretty much unfair

 

[JSMHE]

He has probably missed too many big chances in important games for his own good. If he had taken the opportunity given to him he wouldn't have been sold. It isn't just LvG who has had doubts about him. Three managers can't all be stupid.

6 goals in 7 games? I think he took those chances nicely done last season. But Moyes decided to bench him straight away for 2 months when he was on fire in those 7 games.
Unfortunately LVG hasn't give him a single starter in the league to show what he can do. I think it's unfair for LVG and Moyes to treat him. It's odd how he comments on why we sold Welbeck. It's like he was talking about the past and stats without looking at where he spent most of his games and how he plays in those seasons.

Sir Alex always give any players fair chance when you play good. Welbeck was on fire on those 7 games, I'm sure if it's Sir Alex, he won't drop him for two months even with Rooney and RVP come back from injury. We saw what happen in 2005/2006. RVN was still better than Saha, RVN was a world class in that season. But Saha also played well, so he gave Saha a fair chance even if it meant by dropping such a world class player like RVN.