Agreed. Other than his work rate, he offered nothing out wide. He just doesn't know what to do there.
Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player
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Agreed. Other than his work rate, he offered nothing out wide. He just doesn't know what to do there.
You need only another 15 to get there.
Welbeck himself was open about his unhappiness last summer. Not sure I've seen anything credible about him agitating for a move under Van Gaal, who was pretty unambiguous in his presser:
"We spoke with them before there was a chance of geting Falcao. We had to be fair because in that area we had a lot of youth that could fit in. Welbeck was here since he was nine but he doesn't have the record of Rooney and van Persie and that's the standard. That's why we let him go, because of Falcao and the youngsters."
What it comes down to is goals for LVG. That is why Welbeck wasn't going to play in his position and we weren't about to put him on the wing. He made a big point in pre season about how to finish and I don't think he was convinced. Signing Falcao and Wilsons emergence this season will help us get goals. If it was about being a player, we'd have found the room up top for him. No problem. Always sad to see someone with such promise go, but I think we've lots to look forward too.
This post is spot on. Especially the part in bold. I assume after all the training sessions and game time it seemed Van Gaal didn't rate his finishing at least and seemingly didn't think he could reach the level of van Persie or Rooney.
That's a good unbiased summary of this case. At the end of the day, everyone did what was most appropriate for them. Simple as that.
This is great. Nearly brought a tear to my eye. You should get a like for this.
He's played out wide for England at times and looked decent to be fair
Just watched the presser, LVG got straight to the point and said Welbeck isn't Man United quality. I think that's a bit sad, he wasn't the best striker at the club, but he sure as feck wasn't Ashley Young or Tom Cleverley!
I don't disagree generally but it's apples and oranges. LVG obviously has a standard of striker he wants at United and he believes Welbeck isn't of that quality. In a purely 'balance sheet' I imagine those standards will continue to be raised over the next season or two so that players of the standard of Young and Cleverley won't play such important roles if indeed they can even find a place in the squad.
I would presume he is meaning James Wilson there. I just hope he lives up to his potential. Looks like he is going to be given a chance.
I think the big problem here is that Danny wants to be a forward. If he was happy to play anywhere in the team he would still be here. Unfortunately there are better forwards. As a squad player he is better than some we still have. Danny wanted more than that. I am sure he was worrying about his England place, but Hodgson likes him and I don't think that would have changed. He would still have been picked for England no matter which position he was playing for us.
What difference does that make? What does wanting out last season (when we were doing really shit, and he wasn't getting what he wanted) and wanting out this season (when we are doing really shit, might get better, but he still isn't getting what he wants) change? And why is that a stick to beat the club for selling him? "No, he didn't want out this season. That's a whole other time 4 months ago he wanted out, this time it's not his fault"
Surely it's much of a muchness?
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Fwiw I think he can be a world class forward - or at least something approaching it - if he played up front consistently. But I can also see that LVG has limited time and plenty of pressure, so giving Welbeck games in a position currently occupied by two players he'll probably, even at his very best, be as good as, probably doesn't seem the most sensible tack for him. I'm still gutted he's left, though. Always really liked him as a player.
Well it goes against the idea that he forced his way out of the club this summer, leaving us no option but to sell him to Arsenal. Which is kind of pivotal to a lot of the discussion on here since.
And why is it pivotal? Only when trying to argue that poor old Danny never wanted to leave his boyhood club. But if he did, when isn't really an issue. Especially if it was 4 bloody months ago.
We've let a lot youth players go over time, granted Welbeck also has the local lad thing going unlike a Rossi or Pique who had other top class players in their path and we let them go as well. Welbeck might turn out to be a Pique, the boy did end up at a rival in that stood in our way of one of the big trophies and played a part in that Barca team's success.
The guy hasn't even kicked a ball in anger for Arsenal yet. Let's at least wait till the end of the season to see how a big a deal this individual sale is.
The guy hasn't even kicked a ball in anger for Arsenal yet. Let's at least wait till the end of the season to see how a big a deal this individual sale is.
who cares what LVG said, its up to Danny to prove him wrong. i hope he can have a Eto'O after Madrid like career.
It's pivotal because a lot of people think the decision to sell Welbeck to Arsenal is going to bite us on the arse. In defence of this apparent poor decision it's being claimed that the club had no choice and didn't want him to leave. We now know that this is not the case.
Danny will get more games up front and just more game period at Arsenal then he would have this season at United, so little doubt he will put up better numbers there than he would have at United.
Nah, we obviously were willing to let him go but I don't think that means he didn't want to leave (or, as I said earlier, that he wasn't at least willing to explore it). Had we wanted to keep him I have no doubts he'd still be here.
Kudos to LvG for realising straight away that Welbeck isn't good enough.
Takes two to tango but that last sentence in your post is key. I think we should have wanted to keep him. I may well be wrong. Hopefully I am.
That's only being claimed in response to the hysterial reaction that letting him go was some massive betrayal of identity of the club and will (as you say) bite us on the ass. No one sensible thinks he entirely and individually angled for a move, or that the club forced out a player with no use to them. It was something that happened because it seemed the best for all concerned at the time. It happened 'cos it happend. The only point of this argument is to keep whinging about it by apportioning blame.
If we had qualified for the CL there would be more games to enable LVG to rotate the squad. Last seasons disaster has caused all this upheavel. In a way it is a blessing because it has made the club look at the squad and either get rid of players who were just taking up squad places or set the process in motion. Unfortunately we also need to recoup some money and Danny was our most saleable asset. I am more annoyed that he has gone to Arsenal and for such a small fee. If he had gone abroad or to a midtable team nobody would bat an eyelid. People are saying about Sturridge and Liverpool, they were midtable then. I wish Danny well but not at our expense. He now has to live up to the talent he has. The pressure is now on him, he was sheltered here as there were bigger names who took any flak before him. He is now Arsenal's main man and has to show consistancy he didn't show for us.
Anyone still unhappy about this transfer just needs to get over it now, if Barcelona, Madrid, etc had just got rid of a player with Welbeck's goal stats do you think they'd care too much, especially when you replace him with Falcao, and crucially give Wilson a firm sight on first team football.
We need to be seen to be on a par with these clubs, not giving someone who 'might' come good in 2, 3, 4 years time if we give him the games in his chosen role to improve, we just don't have the time for that if we want to get to the top again anytime soon.
We need to be seen to be on a par with these clubs, not giving someone who 'might' come good in 2, 3, 4 years time if we give him the games in his chosen role to improve, we just don't have the time for that if we want to get to the top again anytime soon.
Ditto. But as I said above, LVG probably has a relatively short run at this job, with plenty of pressure on him to succeed quickly. Without any context, if someone asked whether you'd want Falcao or Welbeck for those three years it's probably a no brainer. As I said, though, that's without any context or eye on the future.
To play devil's advocate, Madrid got rid of, IMO, an inferior player in Morata and they got a good price and some people thought it was a mistake. I don't get the second para. That's exactly what we're doing with Wilson.
Found this article and thought it made some sense.
http://www.ftbpro.com/posts/arjun.menon/1267496/sir-alex-also-to-blame-for-welbeck-s-departure
http://www.ftbpro.com/posts/arjun.menon/1267496/sir-alex-also-to-blame-for-welbeck-s-departure
Right. Because there was a TOP STRIKER available for £30m this summer (no one knows who this TOP STRIKER is, only that he was available) that would have solved all of our problems. 30 goal a season striker and ball winning DM all rolled into one. Guaranteed title win for Arsenal if we'd signed him. But because we've developed a ''small club mentality'' we signed Welbeck for £16m instead.
Is this a good summary of how you think Arsenal's summer went?
In my mind it's a very 'United' thing to look at Welbeck as a better player than Morata. Don't get me wrong, I believe in Welbeck's potential and I think he can be a better player than Morata. But right now, he's not. He's certainly not a better striker. Morata's got a good scoring record. He gets the job done, and he's two years younger. Welbeck is nearly 24 and he's still not the finished product or anything close to that (At least I hope so, for his sake). He's a big question mark, for all his talent. Morata may not have the same variety, but as a goalscorer, it's not really a competition right now.
We're still looking at Welbeck's potential. The rest of the world doesn't care, he's looking at what Welbeck is now. A very mediocre striker.
Not really yet though is, Wilson will be content with been an impact player off the bench for a while, and if he makes the impact Welbeck didn't then he will be first choice before long, if he doesn't step up then he will be gone.
Welbeck was obviously rightly not content with this role anymore, Wilson will be that was my point.
I don't agree. Welbeck has played way more games at the top level than Morata. As a goalscorer, yeah, Morata's probably better, but as a footballer overall I don't see why he'd be rated higher than Welbeck, who has played in league winning sides and in big European games.
Are you looking at the complete context though? I would say that asking Welbeck to go on loan and giving chances to Wilson instead is actually having an eye on the future.
Exactly. Wilson is at an age where the occasional appearance would aid his development nicely. Welbeck is at an age where not playing regularly will ruin him. Additionally, Wilson's will start needing more games just when RvP/Rooney/Falcao start getting on and a seamless transition could be had, contingent on Wilson stepping up. Its all makes sense, for everyone involved.
But that's exactly the point I'm making. On a simple 'Top Trumps' basis then you pick Falcao every day of the week. But there are other factors and solutions, one of which you alluded to above.
You're clutching at straws here. Aside from the fact that teams would usually be looking at goalscoring abilities first when they sign a striker, trying to enhance Welbeck's reputation by stating he's played in league winning sides or in big European games isn't really helping. A couple of good performances against Real won't be making much difference, especially if a team wants to see Welbeck the striker and not Welbeck the tireless worker. Also, I wouldn't say he added much to the title winning side of 2012/13. He had a better season the previous year.
It's mostly us, United fans, trying to seek every positive thing about our player. But we have to realise the world isn't looking for those small points, he's looking at the overall package. Which isn't that great right now.
of course he wasn't so prolific when he was obviously played out of position. I am quite disappointed with this statement. He will outscore 2 of our 3 strikers in Arsenal shirt I am sure of it even they play more as a team and the goals are spread all over the team
You'll read everything on here. Morata is better player than Welbeck even though he barely played 1600 minutes of football at top level at club he had just one(two at times) striker as his competition, and scored around 10 goals in process, in 4 years. Yeah, it's the 'United' way at looking at things. feck me.
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