Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player

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Jev said:
So your point is that because people were being unfair and too quick to write off Kagawa, they should do the same with Welbeck?

I for one am sad that both of them are gone.
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Think his point is that some of the stuff being said about Welbeck is ridiculous. People are making any and every excuse for him, whereas other players that have left, aren't bring afforded those same excuses.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Heh. Moving the goalposts already. Not all that long ago you'd have dropped that figure to 20.

25 goals per season would be a great return for someone whose all-round play brings so much to the team. I can see him getting there or thereabouts. If not this season, in the the next couple.
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Not fussed by how much he will score but I'm just thinking it's a good thing he is at Arse, hehe, because if he ever becomes good enough then he definitely gettable from Arsenal. If we offer a big enough fee Wenger won't resist a substantial profit. It's basically a very costly loan !
Meanwhile Falcao and Di Maria will sell loads of merchandise to American Hispanics whilst scoring enough to get us back to where we need to be. All is not lost, after all.
 
Always nice to see Danny score. Should give him full confidence going into the Citeh game, where you'd expect him to probably start, given that Giroud's out.
 
Orton said:
Welbeck playing out of position: Oh but all he needs is a run of games as a striker and he'll bang them in.

Kagawa being played out of position: Good riddance, isn't cut out for the league.

Both these players played the majority of their games at United, out of their favoured position so to speak. Why is Welbeck being treated as something much more than he'll ever be? Kagawa's form for Dortmund was much better than Welbeck's ever done for us, yet so many were relieved that he's gone.
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People aren't talking Welbeck's performances when they talk about playing out of position. They're referring specifically to his goal return. Not really the same thing so the Kagawa drum banging isn't really applicable.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Think his point is that some of the stuff being said about Welbeck is ridiculous. People are making any and every excuse for him, whereas other players that have left, aren't bring afforded those same excuses.
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You could change the name fom Welbeck to Kagawa and it wouldn't look out of place in the Kagawa thread.
 
Kagawa was average no matter where he played and a coward to boot. Danny's performances out wide were much better than Kagawa's.
 
Jev said:
Quite rightly? You believe that an 18-year-old kid who has played one professional match is currently better than a starting England striker who has just been sold for 16 million?

In terms of the hierarchy, pre-Falcao I'd rate him as our third-best striker, but given his age, movement and mobility, I'd rather have him in the line-up alongside Rooney/RvP than play the both of them.
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Yes, Wilson is a natural finisher whereas Welbeck isn't and if Van Gaal had kept Welbeck Wilson would have been denied chances to play. Wilson will very soon be a better striker than Welbeck could ever dream of becoming.
 
Rednotdead said:
Yes, Wilson is a natural finisher whereas Welbeck isn't and if Van Gaal had kept Welbeck Wilson would have been denied chances to play. Wilson will very soon be a better striker than Welbeck could ever dream of becoming.
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Wow.
 
acnumber9 said:
You could change the name fom Welbeck to Kagawa and it wouldn't look out of place in the Kagawa thread.
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Same for Nani, even Ando at some point. Guess people like to make excuses for some of our players. I prefer to judge them based on what I see on the pitch. It's a much better barometer.
 
Jev said:
Nobody is saying that. It's just quite rare nowadays for a player to break through from our Academy and actually having the quality to play for the first-team. When someone finally does, I don't think we should be selling him.

It's completely fair that you don't believe he would ever be good enough to start for us. I think he has it in him to become a top-class striker. He'll do a Sturridge on us, I believe.
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That story about him doing a Sturridge is becoming really tiresome.

Only way him doing a Sturridge and our decision will bite us in the arse is if we wont get 4th spot this season. If we will and he'll do a Sturridge I'll be glad for him but ultimately I wont care.

I said in few posts we shouldnt have sold him but people are overreacting. Suddenly he outperformed RVP in number nine too, cause he scored 6 goals in 7, 8 games or whatever despite the fact RVP was major factor in our 2013 title and even last year when he was injured a lot and out of form still scored decent amount of goals. Not to mention people banging him being a better overall player than Roponey despite absolutely nothing proving that point (from statistics onwards ).
His decision making is good and he's a good player but he didnt score so much cause he was played out of position. That's a good excuse, but even playing in the wing he used to find himseldf in good positions where he would miss good oportunities. But I guess it's cause he didnt play up front and stuff.
 
Rednotdead said:
Yes, Wilson is a natural finisher whereas Welbeck isn't and if Van Gaal had kept Welbeck Wilson would have been denied chances to play. Wilson will very soon be a better striker than Welbeck could ever dream of becoming.
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Wilson and Welbeck are two different type of players.
 
acnumber9 said:
You could change the name fom Welbeck to Kagawa and it wouldn't look out of place in the Kagawa thread.
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Mostly because a big, brass band of whoppers had a proclivity for talking utter pony in both of their threads. Both good players, both will do well at their new clubs.
 
I love all these Welbeck-is-a-better-no.9-than-Rooney comments. He had numerous seasons to prove it and didn't. Rooney's played all over the pitch and returned way more goals consistently than Welbeck. It was pretty much only in 2009-2010 that Rooney played as an out-and-out no.9 leading the line and he returned 34 goals from 40 something starts and was widely considered the 3rd best player in the world that season.

The revisionists are out in force.
 
Rednotdead said:
Yes they are. Wilson is an out and out striker and Welbeck is a bit of everything but not quite enough of the one thing that really matters.
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hebegebe said:
At the end of the day they are both no9's and the job of a No9 is to stick the ball in the back of the net.
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I wont get dragged into a who's better discussion. I was just pointing out they are different type of players. The weird part is that while they both can play as lone strikers, they fit very well as strike partners rather than direct competitors for the same position. That is something people seem to forget when discussing them. I do hope that Wilson get his chance soon or get send out loan to a team with a good midfield and a manager that won't be afraid to play him.

on welbeck: I remember watching him in a pre-season game(b4 the loan to Sunderland) and he looked the best player on the pitch--both Berbatov and Nani were on the pitch.
 
MUFCpiffgawd said:
I wont get dragged into a who's better discussion. I was just pointing out they are different type of players. The weird part is that while they both can play as lone strikers, they fit very well as strike partners rather than direct competitors for the same position. That is something people seem to forget when discussing them. I do hope that Wilson get his chance soon or get send out loan to a team with a good midfield and a manager that won't be afraid to play him.

on welbeck: I remember watching him in a pre-season game(b4 the loan to Sunderland) and he looked the best player on the pitch--both Berbatov and Nani were on the pitch.
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Wilson will get games this season - I think if Van Gaal had intended to send him out on loan he wouldn't have sold all his other strikers.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
I love all these Welbeck-is-a-better-no.9-than-Rooney comments. He had numerous seasons to prove it and didn't. Rooney's played all over the pitch and returned way more goals consistently than Welbeck. It was pretty much only in 2009-2010 that Rooney played as an out-and-out no.9 leading the line and he returned 34 goals from 40 something starts and was widely considered the 3rd best player in the world that season.

The revisionists are out in force.
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Agree.
 
I'm really sad to see Welbeck leave. His performance for England last night highlights how sad I am to see him leave, especially as he was excellent in pre-season. The games he played up front with Roony, (IMHO) United looked a lot more fluid and dangerous. When Chich came in for the injured Welbeck I think United looked far less dangerous and more predictable. Welbz added a different dimension to United's play. The fact he is homegrown also makes it a little harder to take, as does him leaving for Arsenal. However, Danny asked to leave. If it was a case of jumping before being pushed or not, he still decided to go. He could easily have stayed and fought for his place. Especially when you consider the injury records of our front line and also when you consider his pre-season form. That would have been noted by LvG i'm sure. The fact it was clear United didn't really want him to go is testament to the fact that he was at least considered by LvG, just not as highly as Danny wanted or as Danny himself rated.

Nobody can say if he will do a Sturridge, it could easily go either way. Are people forgetting that Sturridge had an awful 4 years at Chelsea before being loaned to Bolton THEN signing for Liverpool where he turned it all around? I can see Danny doing well at Arsenal, but just as easily I can see him doing very little. Arsenal have an abundance of players who all like to play in the same positions and in the same way. I'm not entirely convinced Arsenal actually needed Danny as much as he needed them. Personally I think they needed a Ruud Van Nistlerooy type striker AND the same as us, they also need a midfield warrior/anchor ala Keane and Viera. There is no doubting Arsenal now have a fantastic and frighteningly quick forward line in Sanchez, Oxlaide Chamberlain, Walcott and Welbeck, but only time will tell if they can all play together or if they will all occupy the same spaces, make the same runs and get in each others way all the time and provide cutting balls and crosses only to find there is nobody there waiting for them.

Danny left and Falcao came in. A top world class striker and many say in the top 3 in the world. Goals are something United have missed recently, especially in the first three games of the season. I think that the Premiership has moved on so far in recent years. Year after year it gets stronger than ever. The top clubs have all bought bigger names and better players, while even the smaller clubs have all strengthened and improved dramatically. I think to compete with the likes of Chelsea and City especially United needed a complete overhaul and some truly world class talent. It's not like the Fergie era where you would be playing against sides with only a couple of truly world class players in them. Now the premier league and certainly the top teams are literally packed with top class world class stars. There really is no room any more for journeymen or slightly above average players just doing a job. No matter what anyone says, Danny, never really did it consistently, if he had he would have forced Rooney or RvP out of the starting line up. We also cannot see what happens on the training pitch so none of our views will ever be completely correct. If Welbz was consistently outperforming players in training then I'm sure he would have been given more chances. But the underlying fact is that for some reason he never really was, and for me that says that he was never really up to it game after game. That's not to say he won't ever be, as of course he has amazing talent and maybe he just needed a move to prove that.

The plain fact of the matter is that he has gone. We can wish him well or we can berate him. I'm trying to be reasonable and fair here as personally I'm always going to be a little biased as he is United through and through and I love to see youth players achieving the top heights in the game. The situation United finds itself in at the moment is different to anything over the last 20 years or so. The sponsors and especially the majority of the fans demand a quick fix. They all say they know it won't be, but they still go apocalyptic after results like the last three in the league. And after those results it's clear United need a MASSIVE improvement and really can't afford to drop any more points. It seems that Welbeck couldn't be relied on to help achieve those goals. A major overhaul of the squad was inevitable, and the replacing of players the manager or we as fans felt weren't good enough with world class big name players or consistent performers is the way LvG has chosen to go. Danny unfortunately was a casualty of that, and many here disagree, but that's why LvG get's paid to make big decisions like that. Only time will tell if it was the right or wrong decision to make. Jumping on the bandwagon after two goals for England though, isn't the best barometer to judge him on. After all Peter Crouch has an outstanding record for England. Danny is obviously one of those players who still truly values and respects playing for his country. Feck. Another reason to keep him. Bollocks!
 
"Danny Welbeck is unique. He reminds me very much of Darius Vassell."

John Barnes is a bit of a tit, ain't he?! Not sure what the hell it's even supposed to mean.

Insult? Or a very strange compliment?!
 
May be he is being sarcastic? Since the move, Welbeck is being touted as some kind of special player; Like how it's a good piece of business by Arsenal and its United is going to regret it.
 
.Rossi said:
"Danny Welbeck is unique. He reminds me very much of Darius Vassell."

John Barnes is a bit of a tit, ain't he?! Not sure what the hell it's even supposed to mean.

Insult? Or a very strange compliment?!
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Vassall was a black forward too.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
I love all these Welbeck-is-a-better-no.9-than-Rooney comments. He had numerous seasons to prove it and didn't. Rooney's played all over the pitch and returned way more goals consistently than Welbeck. It was pretty much only in 2009-2010 that Rooney played as an out-and-out no.9 leading the line and he returned 34 goals from 40 something starts and was widely considered the 3rd best player in the world that season.

The revisionists are out in force.
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Under three different managers too. He didn't do enough to convince them, it's as simple as that.
 
Bargain of the season.

Like so many players, sometimes good players don't get a chance to show their potential by a) not playing / play time and b) played out of position.

If Wenger plays him as CF he will develop into a sensational player for the Arse.
 
sullydnl said:
Under three different managers too. He didn't do enough to convince them, it's as simple as that.
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There's nothing to suggest he didn't convince SAF. In fact there is evidence to the contrary with the big games he featured in and performed well in.
 
Rado_N said:
There's nothing to suggest he didn't convince SAF. In fact there is evidence to the contrary with the big games he featured in and performed well in.
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But not as a central striker. Not as competition for Rooney and RVP in the central role.
 
Rednotdead said:
But not as a central striker. Not as competition for Rooney and RVP in the central role.
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Don't forget his age. SAF was developing him perfectly well, and was pretty obviously ready to boot Rooney out which again suggests he had plenty of faith in Welbeck.
 
Rado_N said:
Don't forget his age. SAF was developing him perfectly well, and was pretty obviously ready to boot Rooney out which again suggests he had plenty of faith in Welbeck.
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Obviously ready to kick Rooney out? Where did that come from?

Fergie never played Welbeck in a central role by choice, it was usually coming off the left. I didn't see any evidence he was being groomed to take over from Rooney or surely he would have played him more in that central role?
 
I was just wondering if it's possible that we have a buyback clause in his contract that hasn't been reported? I'm still rather surprised that Van Gaal wouldn't have seen the value in his contribution, even if he wasn't going to get game time in his preferred position yet.

Anyway, good luck to Danny. He gives his all on the pitch and I don't blame him for wanting to get game time.
 
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