Sounds like you think he was miles off. Not in my view. Better than RVP as a striker last season IMO and certainly combined better with Rooney. Had a pretty strong case for starting I think.
Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player
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Sounds like you think he was miles off. Not in my view. Better than RVP as a striker last season IMO and certainly combined better with Rooney. Had a pretty strong case for starting I think.
Forget the hypotheticals then. A goal every 161 minutes.21 hypothetical goals
Grasping. At. Straws.
A goal every 161 minutes...
With no penalties or freekicks.
Fair enough, I meant that part in relation to all the people on here who just say shit like sell Rooney because he was ineffective for a couple of games so they say he's past it, despite him being one of the 3 players to go out of last season with any sort of respect. I liked Welbeck too (not as much as everyone else of course) but there was just no way any manager would just drop Rooney, Van persie, Mata, or turn down Falcao just to give Welbeck the starting striker position. That's why he had to leave.
Rooney sets the tempo of the game from the front. Welbeck can't do that yet.
12 goals was his best return for us.
I agree with bosnian_red, had we kept hold of him, he's not as good as a Falcao, or a Rooney or (a fit) RvP, and I strongly believe James Wilson will has PL potential stamped all over him, at best here he'd (Welbeck) would only ever be a squad player.
So the issue is we let him go to Arsenal, the one team who'd play him to his potential with a style of play that would suit him down to the ground, if we'd sold him to a City or Chelsea, I'm sure he'd have done no better than he did here.
So again, the issue for myself is not the fact we've let him go, but we let him leave to Arsenal, particuarly for £16mill, a perfect situation for both the player and club (arsenal).
He's asked to leave once or twice now and forced through a move to Arsenal, so I cant say I feel he's been hard done by here at United.
So the issue is we let him go to Arsenal, the one team who'd play him to his potential with a style of play that would suit him down to the ground, if we'd sold him to a City or Chelsea, I'm sure he'd have done no better than he did here.
So again, the issue for myself is not the fact we've let him go, but we let him leave to Arsenal, particuarly for £16mill, a perfect situation for both the player and club (arsenal).
He's asked to leave once or twice now and forced through a move to Arsenal, so I cant say I feel he's been hard done by here at United.
I don't get why some people are turning this into Welbeck v Falcao. RVP's been injury prone for years and didn't look the slightest bit interested last season. He probably has 1-2 years max left in him at this level. Surely Falcao replacing him would have made more sense?
Football is about building squads that provide different options. Welbeck's athleticism, build up play and tactical flexibility were very useful for us. We tended to be a better team with him than without him. On top of that he had our best conversion rate and goals to minutes ratio (minus pens) last season. So goal scoring was becoming less and less of a problem to him.
And at 23 he still has potentially another 10 years playing at the highest level. Should we really be selling a player like that to Arsenal?? In 2 years Rooney, RVP and Falcao will all be in their 30's. Welbeck will be 25.
Football is about building squads that provide different options. Welbeck's athleticism, build up play and tactical flexibility were very useful for us. We tended to be a better team with him than without him. On top of that he had our best conversion rate and goals to minutes ratio (minus pens) last season. So goal scoring was becoming less and less of a problem to him.
And at 23 he still has potentially another 10 years playing at the highest level. Should we really be selling a player like that to Arsenal?? In 2 years Rooney, RVP and Falcao will all be in their 30's. Welbeck will be 25.
Actually lots of people have said that he is good player but shit striker.
Has anyone else criticised Robbie Keane and Crouch for not scoring enough for England? And apart from that, his goalscoring abilities is the last thing he is good at, so actually it does prove he was very good for England, which many try to deny.
Welbeck was pushing for a move while Moyes was in charge.
I wish people would remember this!
As a sub in large part. The number "12" is irrelevant without context. Goals per minute tells the story of how he actually did when he was on the pitch.
RVP is obviously on the way down but he still scored 18 goals in 28 appearances last season, and the year before he scored 30 and was amazing. His overall game has been better then RvP's for a while, you can make an argument for that, but numbers wise he's nowhere near matching how productive RvP is. He had a 1 to 2 month spell where he was playing well consistently. Other then that he was relatively ineffective that season and you couldn't really say he deserved to start, bar the odd game here and there.
He will score 30 goals. 30 imaginary goals.
Exactly. Add to that Rooney is already past his best and only declining, while RVP's injuries seem to have come back with a vengence.
People keep mentioning Wilson, but wouldn't having Wilson AND Welbeck not be even better then just one of them?
It's true that Wilson is very promising. Main reason I'm not too upset about Danny leaving.
Jesus wept..he is better than Rooney now. Yes Rooney is on the decline but he is still better than Welbeck
Happy for him. I think he'll do really well at Arsenal. If he stays fit, I think he'll keep Giroud out because well Giroud is not Rooney/RVP/Falcao and Welbeck with his ability and work rate, he should become a lot of what Arsenal have missed in a lot of their players - a player that just keeps going.
I think with the squad we have now - we should be fighting for top 3 - let Arsenal duke it out for 4th like usual - hopefully they'll keep the likes of Liverpool and Spurs out.
I think with the squad we have now - we should be fighting for top 3 - let Arsenal duke it out for 4th like usual - hopefully they'll keep the likes of Liverpool and Spurs out.
Of course. It would also have been sensible forward planning. Replacing RVP with Falcao would have been fine given his injuries and likelihood of further decline. Selling Welbeck was just just plain stupid.
That doesn't fit his narrative, thus he will continue to ignore it.
An addendum to the point I highlighted is that managers should also look to build a balance squad. As most fans seems to notice, we played better football when Welbeck plays and his ability complement the likes of Rooney, Mata, and van Persie much better than his counterpart. Individually, people can say Rooney, van Persie and falcao are the better striker, but when they play with each other, some of their abilities diminishes, which then makes Welbeck a much better option to play in our starting eleven. Looking at some of the event that transpired in pre-season, it was not by coincedence that when Welbeck got injuried, we started playing like a team without any sense of direction.
Get over it already. This happened, deal with it.
Yes. And he generally sets it at somewhere around slow-medium.
I can't be the only one here who thinks that Wilson will never be as good as Welbeck? I mean, there's a shit load of variables in there... but that's my prediction.
For you and other Danny fan boys perhaps, not so much for Danny though as he'd still be second choice between the two.
Like he did for Danny's first?
Christ. Welbeck is not better than Rooney. Wise up, lads. Probably not far off where Rooney was at the same age, mind you. Wouldn't be surprised if his goal/game is very close, if not better.
Let's just be happy for the lad, regardless of talent he wasn't going to be first or second choice at United so if he becomes a great player at Arsenal then it's the right move for him. We've not made a mistake letting him go, we'd make a mistake keeping him and not letting him fulfil his potential.
Far too many.
Danny definitely wasn't as big a goal threat at 18, that's for sure.
We don't play with a lone striker though and probably won't for the forseeable future. And RVP and Rooney have proven to be a seriously dysfunctional pairing while we've played much better football when Welbeck and Rooney have played together. After the start they've had together I'd happily drop one of them for Danny, your name can only get you so far.
I just think its too early to say. Wilson is potentially a top class finisher but Welbeck's all-round game is superior at this stage.
Will be interesting to watch.
Maybe we should see if Wilson even makes it here first?
As I say, the likes of Macheda, Gibson and Patrucci were caf favourites at one time or another, and absolute shoe ins to make it at United. In fact I remember a time when Macheda was rated well ahead of Welbeck. That went well.
James Wilson will make it here. Have you even watched him? The guy is already a much better goal scorer than Danny. He is of course a rough diamond right now but give it a few years he'll be ahead of Danny in the England team which I'm sure will still upset a few on here.
The club didn't want him and he got an opportunity to play in a team that obviously does, what should he have done?
Exactly, lets see, instead of calling for LVG's head for selling Welbeck. The ship is sailing two ways in these debates.
Heard the same about so many players on here down the years.
Different types of player, so hard to compare, generally its consensus that the one issue holding welbeck back most over the years is the failure of being quite as clinical as we'd like, either with a final shot or stumbling/failing to trap the odd easy pass etc when capeable of much better outside the pentalty box, whereas Wilsons biggest strength is his directness and clinical edge infront of goal, obviously Dannys all round game is superior and probably will always be, but again, they're too different to compare at present.
I like Wilson though, if you put him in a reserve game against Gillinghams youth and give him a chance he'd take it, similarly, if you, right now.. put him in the world cup final, he'd simiarly score any chance given, he's just that type of forward.
The only thing holding him back at present is he seems to pick up injuries often.
I haven't called for LVG's head. I like him, think he'll be great.
I believe (on the basis of watching Welbeck play in the PL, CL, and WC over the past few years) that he's made a mistake. Basing predictions of Wilson, on reserve team football is not the same.
As soon as he scored two, I knew the Caf' would react like this.
Pff.
Pff.
Rooney is a better goalscorer but I genuinely think the team would have had better balance and more fluidity if you took Rooney out and Welbeck in. Especially when you take into account mata and his role
Well done.
Also, you do realise that people have more to base Wilson on than reserve team football, right? he scored two goals in the PL in one game last season and came on vs MK Dons this season and hit the cross bar/post. Just updating you.
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