Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've never seen a player's stock rise as quickly as Welbeck's following his move. Honestly, before his move, outside United you'd have thought the lad was the second coming of Heskey, whereas he's now being talked about as a potential heir to Henry.

Don't get me wrong, there was obviously a lot of nostalgia attached to him being a local youth product, but here's a lad who's played nearly 200 club games in his career and is averaging a goal every five games. Whether he's played wide or not, it doesn't excuse some of the sitters he's missed over the years.

I happen to think he'll become a pretty decent player for Arsenal. I see no reason why he can't at least match Giroud's productivity levels, but he's not going to become top drawer. I'm quite happy because this purchase will prevent Arsenal from signing the truly top striker they need.

It has been fecking hilarious reading all the revisionism from Gooners after this transfer though - they're working really hard to convince themselves.
 
JazzG said:
Our stadium debt is not mostly paid off actually. Your Chevloret deal is worth almost as much as our Puma & Emirates deals put together, we simply can't compete with your lot when it comes to top end wages. But unlike before we can go for much better players
Click to expand...

Their current shirt deal is actually only worth about 8m more a year than ours. In a couple of years when their Adidas one begins they'll pull ahead.
 
JazzG said:
£20m for one season to loan him is what it is costing. You can dress those figures up however you want. There is a reason why no other club apart from for yours actually matched that.
Click to expand...

Why do people lump in Falcao's wages when discussing the fee? That's not the way football transfers are ever discussed, but it's being used as a stick to beat United with.

By the same token, Arsenal are paying around £45m for Welbeck, a striker with a club career strike rate of one every five games.
 
Feed Me said:
It has been fecking hilarious reading all the revisionism from Gooners after this transfer though - they're working really hard to convince themselves.
Click to expand...
It just goes to show you that fans hate the team a player represents way more than the player himself. I remember getting banned from a lfc forum for telling that both Welbeck and Hernandez were better than Andy Carroll. But they kept telling themselves that Carroll was the second coming of Drogba and Zlatan :lol:
 
Archie Leach said:
Their current shirt deal is actually only worth about 8m more a year than ours. In a couple of years when their Adidas one begins they'll pull ahead.
Click to expand...

I thought it started at £47m and then goes up to over £50m? Remember reading on here that the guy who sanctioned the deal at Chevloret got the sack after doing so!

Feed Me said:
Why do people lump in Falcao's wages when discussing the fee? That's not the way football transfers are ever discussed, but it's being used as a stick to beat United with.

By the same token, Arsenal are paying around £45m for Welbeck, a striker with a club career strike rate of one every five games.
Click to expand...

I thought the deal is you pay £20m and then Monaco pay his wages tax free?

As for Welbeck's career strike rate, I'll judge him on how he does for this club rather than being used as a utility player at your club.
 
Feed Me said:
Why do people lump in Falcao's wages when discussing the fee? That's not the way football transfers are ever discussed, but it's being used as a stick to beat United with.
Click to expand...

Just like how United signed 3 left backs this window, as well.

Anything to try and make United's transfer window look silly.



Clueless United, with their 3 left backs, and £20million loanee. Lolol
 
Rossa said:
Not sure I understand the bolded part, but I would imagine that you should be quite happy with the signing. How he came to be 5th choice at United is beyond me.
Click to expand...

Or Shane Long, I'm guessing it is supposed to say.
 
Arsenal can't offer the sort of wages Falcao id on, they just can't compete financially with us. You can't just sign a player on wages over 50% your next highest earner and not expect some to be unhappy.
 
He could develope into the player that we all wanted him to at United purely because he will be played in the position he has always wanted. However, there is an obvious risk...that at the end of the day, he will continue to bambi, scuff and mishit the critical shot enough to make it quite clear he is not a top six club player.
 
togg said:
He could develope into the player that we all wanted him to at United purely because he will be played in the position he has always wanted. However, there is an obvious risk...that at the end of the day, he will continue to bambi, scuff and mishit the critical shot enough to make it quite clear he is not a top six club player.
Click to expand...
You know in your heart how it's gonna go...
 
I think the only problem with the Welbeck signing is that both he and Giroud are probably perfect 2nd choice strikers for a team that plays a lone striker and is trying to compete on all fronts. For depth, nothing wrong with having them as #2 and #3, especially since Welbeck is reasonably versatile, both have had some injury questions and maybe Wenger will end up moving Welbeck wider as he sometimes does change players' careers in that way.

Ideally you'd want a top, top striker who can be counted on to go 2 in 3 and then you have Welbeck or Giroud as the backup. Wouldn't shock me if this move eventually leads to, in 2-3 years, Giroud leaving and Arsenal signing an Ozil/Sanchez level star, but this time a scary goalscorer. They tried with Suarez. I'm not sure they won't try again once Madrid move on from Benzema or if another one becomes available in a year or 2.

But for now, maybe they can get pretty damn good results by using Welbeck when they need to press and teams play a high line and Giroud when teams are sitting back against them and the plan is to bank passes off him for 1-2's and hit crosses into the box.
 
Well the big idea is that Danny Boy (who has all the tools) turns into a monster
 
JazzG said:
I thought it started at £47m and then goes up to over £50m? Remember reading on here that the guy who sanctioned the deal at Chevloret got the sack after doing so!



I thought the deal is you pay £20m and then Monaco pay his wages tax free?

As for Welbeck's career strike rate, I'll judge him on how he does for this club rather than being used as a utility player at your club.
Click to expand...

Utility player or not, Welbeck has spurned a number of good chances. He needs to become far more clinical. At the moment, he's a 10 a season player.
 
Feed Me said:
Utility player or not, Welbeck has spurned a number of good chances. He needs to become far more clinical. At the moment, he's a 10 a season player.
Click to expand...

While Giroud is out until January he has his chance to nail down that position upfront for himself. Like I said we will get a better idea of how good or bad he is during this time. Worst case scenario he becomes a decent backup player who can play more than one position and best case scenario he could develop into a very good striker. A few players of his age have moved club and looked out sorts only to develop into fine players. He is only 23, if he was 26 I'd be a bit more worried but we'll find out what kind of level he is capable of in the next season or two.

Being more clinical can be down to confidence, RvP never looked a 30+ league goal scorer in his early days but as he got more confidence in front of goal and an extended run he developed into that player. Not saying Welbeck will but you can't write him off nor can you say he is destined for greatness.
 
JazzG said:
While Giroud is out until January he has his chance to nail down that position upfront for himself. Like I said we will get a better idea of how good or bad he is during this time. Worst case scenario he becomes a decent backup player who can play more than one position and best case scenario he could develop into a very good striker. A few players of his age have moved club and looked out sorts only to develop into fine players. He is only 23, if he was 26 I'd be a bit more worried but we'll find out what kind of level he is capable of in the next season or two.

Being more clinical can be down to confidence, RvP never looked a 30+ league goal scorer in his early days but as he got more confidence in front of goal and an extended run he developed into that player. Not saying Welbeck will but you can't write him off nor can you say he is destined for greatness.
Click to expand...

I'm certainly not writing him off. I believe he has good ability. Was just commenting on how astonishingly overhyped he's become since moving. He was a figure of ridicule before he buggered off to Arsenal.
 
@JazzG not that it particularly matters to me, or United, but where are you getting your figures from as they seem vastly inflated compared to the more reliable sources in the media? It sounds likeFalcao was only really interested in United or Madrid regardless of money.
 
TheReligion said:
@JazzG not that it particularly matters to me, or United, but where are you getting your figures from as they seem vastly inflated compared to the more reliable sources in the media? It sounds likeFalcao was only really interested in United or Madrid regardless of money.
Click to expand...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29011493
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ited-pay-24-million-for-season-long-loan.html

It was all over twitter from reliable journalists days before he joined that the total cost for a year was approx £20m and how Monaco were offering him to most clubs.

Feed Me said:
I'm certainly not writing him off. I believe he has good ability. Was just commenting on how astonishingly overhyped he's become since moving. He was a figure of ridicule before he buggered off to Arsenal.
Click to expand...

Fans naturally tend to overrate players their club sign so not entirely surprising!
 
JazzG said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29011493
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ited-pay-24-million-for-season-long-loan.html

It was all over twitter from reliable journalists days before he joined that the total cost for a year was approx £20m and how Monaco were offering him to most clubs.



Fans naturally tend to overrate players their club sign so not entirely surprising!
Click to expand...
yes Jorge mendes was offering to practically every club that could afford him and they all said no. The real winner of that transfer is JOrge mendes.
 
JazzG said:
Man Utd have shown if you offer top bucks players will come. R.Madrid weren't interested in Falcao's at his asking price, PSG wouldn't do business at R.Madrid's asking price for Di Maria and Chelsea weren't prepared to offer Shaw what you did so they backed off. If those clubs had followed through those players at the money required they would have joined them over your club. But that is irrelevant now, like Gary Neville said you lost your bargaining position and just needed to do whatever required to get the players in. You've got the money so why not. You're still a massive club with massive turnover so the only priority that the club has now is to get back into the CL because 2 years without CL will be massive blow.

As for Welbeck, he wouldn't have been my first choice but gives us a skill set up top that we are lacking. For the money we have paid even if it doesn't work out we can make him our reserve striker and not worry. He is versatile so can play a number of roles for us. We are in a better position for having him than not. The addition of Sanchez will also help plug in the gap when it comes to lack of goals in the team.
Click to expand...

Top bucks or no, Falcao is on loan. His wage remains the same. There is no reason for him to choose us based on money. If he would had stayed with Monaco he could at least get a Champion League, He hasn't play in Champion League for a while. While if he picked us, he won't get to play with Champion League but at least he knows which one is a better club and which one has a better ambition this season.
I don't like how we just sign those players and sold the young players without giving them chance for the new manager like Welbeck but at least we shush people that we can sign the best striker in the world.
In my opinion Falcao isn't the solution for our club. Stick with Welbeck still can give us a CL spot next season if we sign quality and experience centre back. We signed Rojo, but to be honest if we could sign the best striker in the world, why can't we just sign Hummels instead of the best striker. Hummels would give us not just CL spot but also increasing our title contenders.

As I said before the fee and wage we paid for him could be paid off from his shirt selling. We've won so many league title in recently years, while you haven't won for ages. If I'm an Arsenal fans, I would rather push the transfer to Falcao because he could give you that legitimate league title contenders. Just typical of Wenger nowdays. Only sign for young future players and in the end selling them because they ask for more wages or can't fight for the title contenders.
 
@JazzG By the way I don't mean to mock Wenger here. I was trying to say that Wenger likes to sign those kind of players and are not willing to take a risk on the older ones even though the player can give you a greater chances to win title.
 
Anyway I don't think I'll have the heart to watch any Arsenal match this season in which Danny is playing. It'd be freaking weird to see him in another jersey as well. Might put the OP on ignore, so I could continuously ignore this thread and pretend this never happened.
 
JSMHE said:
@JazzG By the way I don't mean to mock Wenger here. I was trying to say that Wenger likes to sign those kind of players and are not willing to take a risk on the older ones even though the player can give you a greater chances to win title.
Click to expand...
Wenger had no choice since we didn't have the £££, he still doesn't have megabucks to sign galacticos. His achievement in keeping Arsenal top 4 between 2008-12 is just as remarkable as him building the 2002-4 side.
 
peterstorey said:
Wenger had no choice since we didn't have the £££, he still doesn't have megabucks to sign galacticos. His achievement in keeping Arsenal top 4 between 2008-12 is just as remarkable as him building the 2002-4 side.
Click to expand...

It is remarkable but not as good as how Sir Alex Ferguson build our team with combination young players + experience players and still winning a lot of things. Even after he sold his big name stars like Ronaldo, Stam, Ruud and etc... he still achieved more than Wenger. That's what I was trying to say, no matter how much Arsenal fans are hoping, it's just typical of Wenger for signing young players for future and in the end selling them instead of trying to build a team to win something. You guys haven't win the league for ages. That's why if I'm an Arsenal fans I would rather see Wenger try to have really high ambition to win the league for at least once. If Wenger could sign Falcao, that will show how high is the ambition.
 
Feed Me said:
I've never seen a player's stock rise as quickly as Welbeck's following his move. Honestly, before his move, outside United you'd have thought the lad was the second coming of Heskey, whereas he's now being talked about as a potential heir to Henry.

Don't get me wrong, there was obviously a lot of nostalgia attached to him being a local youth product, but here's a lad who's played nearly 200 club games in his career and is averaging a goal every five games. Whether he's played wide or not, it doesn't excuse some of the sitters he's missed over the years.

I happen to think he'll become a pretty decent player for Arsenal. I see no reason why he can't at least match Giroud's productivity levels, but he's not going to become top drawer. I'm quite happy because this purchase will prevent Arsenal from signing the truly top striker they need.

It has been fecking hilarious reading all the revisionism from Gooners after this transfer though - they're working really hard to convince themselves.
Click to expand...
You are spot on here. I have even had Liverpool fans saying how they've always rated Welbeck. I'm sure that's not what they used to say!
 
peterstorey said:
You know in your heart how it's gonna go...
Click to expand...

He's not a dead cert to succeed, although his talent isn't in question. He's a lovely player in the defensive and midfield thirds, but absolutely infuriating at the sharp end with a lack of composure and indecisive touch. A lot has been made of him being played wide, rightly so, but his position on the pitch doesn't excuse some of the sitters he's missed.

Don't really see how it's a mistake for United to have flogged him. If you strip the nostalgia away, he's been an ordinary player for us. You can talk about money all you like, but we've swapped Hernandez and Welbeck for a world class forward - happy days, as far as I'm concerned.

To wage a proper title challenge, you really needed a substantial upgrade on Giroud. I'm not sure you have that in Welbeck, talented as he is.
 
I still think he could of been an excellent box to box CM. Call me crazy. His short passing, hold up, physicality, pace and ball winning ability is there for all to see.

Dembele is not better than him in that role.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.