Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player

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dirkey said:
And there we have you one again failing to understand the point both I, and subho611 have consistently made... That you don't base decisions regarding the sale of players on the evidence of 3 games.
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See this again:
JSMHE said:
Not so sure if selling your best attackers in the last two league games is correct especially when he is still in a young age. Welbeck 10 mins performance against Sunderland and Burnley is way better than 180 mins of Rooney. And also better than Mata recently games.
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dirkey said:
Talk about short term memory. Let's forget that rvp and Rooney have a about ten years each in Pl, and Mata proven top notch both in England and Spain. Let's remember instead, a couple of ten minute performances against tired defenses. And let's also forget the complete and utter top notch, undoubtedly world class striker we brought in. The over rating of welbeck has made the over rating of kagawa look spectacularly tame in the last week or so.
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All I was saying was Welbeck deserve his chances instead of sold him after his performance and the other players performance. When we sold a young 23 years old Danny Welbeck who had a better performance in our recently games, and showed what he could do last season scoring 6 goals in 7 games, it is pretty much incorrect in my opinion.
What Rooney has done in his career was great and more than Welbeck did, but that's all about the past while right now Welbeck deserves his chance more and fair. Is that really hard to understand? Welbeck was trying to impressed the manager more than what other attackers did so far.
 
Sturridge is a good example. Good young player at Chelsea and City but not enough game time. Done well for Liverpool but compare what's happen for those teams since he left. The teams development is bigger than any single player. Equally, Danny could have stayed and proved him wrong?
 
dirkey said:
And there we have you one again failing to understand the point both I, and subho611 have consistently made... That you don't base decisions regarding the sale of players on the evidence of 3 games.
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See now who is missing the point from the start here. You thought I judge Welbeck overall is better by using the evidence of 3 games. Those three or two games are just to show how much Welbeck done just to impress the manager more than any other players.
All I'm saying is Welbeck deserves his chance more and fair. I really hate when a manager never appreciate a player who has done more and better just to impress the current manager more than any other players. And it's incorrect to sell Welbeck and he deserves better with us.
 
Wilson Litchmore said:
Sturridge is a good example. Good young player at Chelsea and City but not enough game time. Done well for Liverpool but compare what's happen for those teams since he left. The teams development is bigger than any single player. Equally, Danny could have stayed and proved him wrong?
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In case of Chelsea, they have been crying out for a striker like Sturridge since he left. And went and bought Costa for more than two and half times what they sold Sturridge for
 
JazzG said:
Yeah Arsenal weren't gonna sign Falcao for the kind of money (loan fee + wages) that you lot have. Probably made an enquiry and left it at that, no other club were gonna pay that kind of money either tbh.
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So you're telling me that Arsenal wouldn't have given 6m in fee and 250k in wages for a player who could've made you legitimate title contenders?

Are you living in la-la land?
 
sajeev said:
In case of Chelsea, they have been crying out for a striker like Sturridge since he left. And went and bought Costa for more than two and half times what they sold Sturridge for
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It's too simplistic an argument. A current Sturridge might be in the Chelsea team but that's because of his development playing at Liverpool. If he stayed may have developed into a different player.
 
KM said:
So you're telling me that Arsenal wouldn't have given 6m in fee and 250k in wages for a player who could've made you legitimate title contenders?

Are you living in la-la land?
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Don't you know Arsene Wenger?
 
JSMHE said:
Don't you know Arsene Wenger?
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The same Wenger who bought Ozil and Sanchez for nearly 80m in the last two seasons?
I thought the shackles are off Arsenal financially.
 
KM said:
The same Wenger who bought Ozil and Sanchez for nearly 80m in the last two seasons?
I thought the shackles are off Arsenal financially.
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What I meant is all Wenger care is just signing future lol. Ozil was still young. Sanchez is in his prime age. He wouldn't take a risk to sign an older player with such a money even if that player can turn his club into such a legitimate title contenders. If he dares to do that then surely he could just try to push the transfer and might beat us.
 
JSMHE said:
What I meant is all Wenger care is just signing future lol. Ozil was still young. Sanchez is in his prime age. He wouldn't take a risk to sign an older player with such a money even if that player can turn his club into such a legitimate title contenders. If he dares to do that then surely he could just try to push the transfer and might beat us.
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Didn't Falcao's dad say that he had a firm offer from Arse?
 
MDFC Manager said:
Didn't Falcao's dad say that he had a firm offer from Arse?
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Interesting. Would like to know more and would be better if you can give me the link. But did Falcao dad said he is interested in that offer, or Arsenal just gave up after knowing United is also interested?
 
TheReligion said:
What kind of money?

He is not really on £345,000 a week you know...
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£20m for one season to loan him is what it is costing. You can dress those figures up however you want. There is a reason why no other club apart from for yours actually matched that.

KM said:
So you're telling me that Arsenal wouldn't have given 6m in fee and 250k in wages for a player who could've made you legitimate title contenders?

Are you living in la-la land?
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So it is a bad deal to spend £20m on a striker for one season and then a £40m+ buy out clause? He has a history of knee problems and is about to turn 29. This club has never dealed with Mendes so this was a non starter in the first place.

Falcao alone wouldn't have made us legitimate title contenders, we need a DM and a striker in order to be there. We already have two wide forwards who imo are capable of giving us 20+ goals a season so we shouldn't be desperate in order to bring a striker in at any cost, even though Giroud does infuriate me! Of course it would help but DM was more of a priority imo.

And no I'm not living in la-la land, unlike your club who were desperate and with big sponsorship deals are able to to throw around money we simply can't afford to do that. If we could, we would have bought Fabregas back. I'm not knocking Falcao here, guy is top notch and one of the best finishers I've seen but this was never gonna happen. Like I said with him being represented by Mendes, his players usually end up where he wants and Man Utd suit him best right now.
 
JazzG said:
So it is a bad deal to spend £20m on a striker for one season and then a £40m+ buy out clause? He has a history of knee problems and is about to turn 29. This club has never dealed with Mendes so this was a non starter in the first place.

Falcao alone wouldn't have made us legitimate title contenders, we need a DM and a striker in order to be there. We already have two wide forwards who imo are capable of giving us 20+ goals a season so we shouldn't be desperate in order to bring a striker in at any cost, even though Giroud does infuriate me! Of course it would help but DM was more of a priority imo.

And no I'm not living in la-la land, unlike your club who were desperate and with big sponsorship deals are able to to throw around money we simply can't afford to do that. If we could, we would have bought Fabregas back. I'm not knocking Falcao here, guy is top notch and one of the best finishers I've seen but this was never gonna happen. Like I said with him being represented by Mendes, his players usually end up where he wants and Man Utd suit him best right now.
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History of knee problems?

He's had one major knee injury. You can dress it up all you want and bring on "oh we're Arsenal and we're not spending that much money" but after the Sanchez and Ozil deals, it doesn't sit right with me.

Edit: It seems that Arsenal did made an offer late which was confirmed by his dad but why we listen to statements when we can make things up.
 
@JazzG Alright since Arsenal indeed made an offer. Yes it costs a lot. I prefer us to spend the money on Hummels the best centre back than Falcao the best striker because I think we need experience in the back. But we showed and shush you guys that Manchester United is still a bigger club in the world who can attract the best striker in the world even without a Champion League. And it's not like Falcao got higher wage here, the wage is still the same and he doesn't mind to moved to us because he knows which one is the better club and which one has the better ambition.

His knee injury is just last season.
And that money cost could be paid off or may be we can even get more if his shirt selling is success. There are tons of people in Colombia are fans of this guy. And in my opinion Falcao would give your club a legitimate title contender. He is a world class, if you could sign him then all you need is just a defensive mid, but then again Arteta and Wilshere are doing a good job as your holding midfield anyway. Your finishers option were too awful (Giroud and Sanogo). Welbeck is a very good player but he won't give you a legitimate contender this season.
 
KM said:
History of knee problems?

He's had one major knee injury. You can dress it up all you want and bring on "oh we're Arsenal and we're not spending that much money" but after the Sanchez and Ozil deals, it doesn't sit right with me.

Edit: It seems that Arsenal did made an offer late which was confirmed by his dad but why we listen to statements when we can make things up.
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We made an offer, I don't think that was in doubt, we just weren't ever going to pay his wages. Sanchez and Ozil deals haven't got anything to do with Falcao.
 
Cheesy said:
He's started to splash a lot more money in the past couple of years though, with the signings of Ozil and Sanchez. Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but the notion Arsenal no longer go for big transfers is one of the past now. They do, even if not to the extent of Chelsea, City and us this summer.
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We don't shop at Lidl anymore but it's still M&S rather than Harrods.
 
Sanchez and Ozil fit Wenger's usual transfer strategy, in terms of age and wages. Falcao's wage demands are just of Arsenal's reach, particularly given he's known for only offering 1 year contract extensions to players over 30.
 
KM said:
History of knee problems?

He's had one major knee injury. You can dress it up all you want and bring on "oh we're Arsenal and we're not spending that much money" but after the Sanchez and Ozil deals, it doesn't sit right with me.

Edit: It seems that Arsenal did made an offer late which was confirmed by his dad but why we listen to statements when we can make things up.
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Sorry I'm confusing him and Vidal, thought he had a few knee problems.

To be fair not much about Arsenal seems to sit right with you, any chance you get to have a pop you usually do. Ozil and Sanchez were bought outright and were both around 24/25 years old when we bought them. Falcao will cost us £50m, he'll want £250k+ pw and will be around 29 by the time we signed him on a permanent contract. We aren't gonna spend close to £50m on a player who within a year or two might be in his natural decline. We might have put in an enquiry but noway we would have done business at those kind of figures. Like I said, Mendes and Arsenal aren't on the best terms and Falcao was going exactly where Mendes wanted.

Read the quote actually, his dad said we showed interest. He didn't say we made an offer. Zigic and his agent have come out and said we were in for him, maybe Wenger abandoned his pursuit for Falcao when he heard he was available?

JSMHE said:
@JazzG Alright since Arsenal indeed made an offer. Yes it costs a lot. I prefer us to spend the money on Hummels the best centre back than Falcao the best striker because I think we need experience in the back. But we showed and shush you guys that Manchester United is still a bigger club in the world who can attract the best striker in the world even without a Champion League. And it's not like Falcao got higher wage here, the wage is still the same and he doesn't mind to moved to us because he knows which one is the better club and which one has the better ambition.

His knee injury is just last season.
And that money cost could be paid off or may be we can even get more if his shirt selling is success. There are tons of people in Colombia are fans of this guy. And in my opinion Falcao would give your club a legitimate title contender. He is a world class, if you could sign him then all you need is just a defensive mid, but then again Arteta and Wilshere are doing a good job as your holding midfield anyway. Your finishers option were too awful (Giroud and Sanogo). Welbeck is a very good player but he won't give you a legitimate contender this season.
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Man Utd have shown if you offer top bucks players will come. R.Madrid weren't interested in Falcao's at his asking price, PSG wouldn't do business at R.Madrid's asking price for Di Maria and Chelsea weren't prepared to offer Shaw what you did so they backed off. If those clubs had followed through those players at the money required they would have joined them over your club. But that is irrelevant now, like Gary Neville said you lost your bargaining position and just needed to do whatever required to get the players in. You've got the money so why not. You're still a massive club with massive turnover so the only priority that the club has now is to get back into the CL because 2 years without CL will be massive blow.

As for Welbeck, he wouldn't have been my first choice but gives us a skill set up top that we are lacking. For the money we have paid even if it doesn't work out we can make him our reserve striker and not worry. He is versatile so can play a number of roles for us. We are in a better position for having him than not. The addition of Sanchez will also help plug in the gap when it comes to lack of goals in the team.

Brwned said:
Sanchez and Ozil fit Wenger's usual transfer strategy, in terms of age and wages. Falcao's wage demands are just of Arsenal's reach, particularly given he's known for only offering 1 year contract extensions to players over 30.
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Nice to see someone gets it!
 
Brwned said:
Sanchez and Ozil fit Wenger's usual transfer strategy, in terms of age and wages. Falcao's wage demands are just of Arsenal's reach, particularly given he's known for only offering 1 year contract extensions to players over 30.
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I disagree. Wenger's transfer strategy has changed, since five or six years ago there's no chance in hell that he'd have been able to afford the fees and wages that Sanchez and Ozil must be taking in or else they'd have moved for Robben or Sneijder when Madrid discarded them on cheap all those years back.
 
JazzG said:
Sorry I'm confusing him and Vidal, thought he had a few knee problems.

To be fair not much about Arsenal seems to sit right with you, any chance you get to have a pop you usually do. Ozil and Sanchez were bought outright and were both around 24/25 years old when we bought them. Falcao will cost us £50m, he'll want £250k+ pw and will be around 29 by the time we signed him on a permanent contract. We aren't gonna spend close to £50m on a player who within a year or two might be in his natural decline. We might have put in an enquiry but noway we would have done business at those kind of figures. Like I said, Mendes and Arsenal aren't on the best terms and Falcao was going exactly where Mendes wanted.

Read the quote actually, his dad said we showed interest. He didn't say we made an offer. Zigic and his agent have come out and said we were in for him, maybe Wenger abandoned his pursuit for Falcao when he heard he was available?
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:lol:

It's lovely how I'm the one who's supposedly with an agenda when you're the one who's claiming or implying that we signed him because you didn't showed an interest or something like that. Keep on with that thinking if that helps you to sleep well at night.
 
KM said:
:lol:

It's lovely how I'm the one who's supposedly with an agenda when you're the one who's claiming or implying that we signed him because you didn't showed an interest or something like that. Keep on with that thinking if that helps you to sleep well at night.
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How many times do you have to be told? Wenger's transfer strategy as not changed, he tries to get the best players he can for the budget available. That budget has increased due to TV/commercials so he can afford the likes of Ozil and Sanchez - it does not stretch to the likes of Falcao & co with their ridiculous wages
 
peterstorey said:
How many times do you have to be told? Wenger's transfer strategy as not changed, he tries to get the best players he can for the budget available. That budget as increased due to TV/commercials so he can afford the likes of Ozil and Sanchez - it does not stretch to the likes of Falcao & co with their ridiculous wages
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Yep, with both Ozil and Sanchez, the wage structure has been broken slightly (only by about 50k if the reported wages are accurate). Falcao's wages would be around what both are on combined.
 
peterstorey said:
How many times do you have to be told? Wenger's transfer strategy as not changed, he tries to get the best players he can for the budget available. That budget as increased due to TV/commercials so he can afford the likes of Ozil and Sanchez - it does not stretch to the likes of Falcao & co with their ridiculous wages
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Yes, I respect that.

But now that the new TV deals, Puma deal and the stadium debt mostly paid off, are you telling me that signing Falcao wasn't in Wenger's range?
 
Damien said:
Yep, with both Ozil and Sanchez, the wage structure has been broken slightly (only by about 50k if the reported wages are accurate). Falcao's wages would be around what both are on combined.
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Given the fact that Danny is on a 100k plus contract at Arsenal(according to reports, but would be a fair assumption since he was on 80k at United alone), how much do you think the likes of Ozil and Sanchez are taking home?
 
Damien said:
Yep, with both Ozil and Sanchez, the wage structure has been broken slightly (only by about 50k if the reported wages are accurate). Falcao's wages would be around what both are on combined.
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What do you think Falcao is being paid?
 
KM said:
Given the fact that Danny is on a 100k plus contract at Arsenal(according to reports, but would be a fair assumption since he was on 80k at United alone), how much do you think the likes of Ozil and Sanchez are taking home?
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The papers reported around 140k and 150k respectively.

r0x0rwolfo said:
What do you think Falcao is being paid?
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The press have no idea so I've got no idea, but around 250kish I'd assume, which is a lot more than what Ozil and Sanchez are on.
 
Damien said:
The papers reported around 140k and 150k respectively.



The press have no idea so I've got no idea, but around 250kish I'd assume, which is a lot more than what Ozil and Sanchez are on.
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I think he's on the same as RVP and Di Maria and falls just short of Rooney, that would be around 200-225k

Ozil and Sanchez are on about 140k and 150k respectively.

So 290k combined, that's more than Falcao by both our estimates.
 
r0x0rwolfo said:
What do you think Falcao is being paid?
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Don't really think anyone knows expect that it's a LOT(There's a few reports around but they just seem to be guessing). Wenger problem is he always leaves it too late or in some cases chooses to do nothing at all.

Money can't be blamed for the fact that Arsenal can incredibly short on defenders(Wenger must of know he was never going to get a top defender like Hummels)why leave yourself so lacking in certain,yes clubs always want the best possible players available but if can't happen then surely bringing no players can't possibility be the second best option.

The Welbeck signing is like us with the Daley Blind. Why leave it so late and just throw away points in the PL.
 
r0x0rwolfo said:
I think he's on the same as RVP and Di Maria and falls just short of Rooney, that would be around 200-225k

Ozil and Sanchez are on about 140k and 150k respectively.

So 290k combined, that's more than Falcao by both our estimates.
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It's impossible to say, really, as what he was on at Monaco was tax free and he was paid a lot. He'd have had a paycut no matter what to go here but by how much is unknown. Was initially reported to be around 350k, then I remember the Telegraph lowering it to around 250k which most papers agreed with. I agree he'd be at least the second highest earner anyway.
 
Say it's 250K then it doesn't cause a problem in your squad since you've got Rooney and RvP on about the same and Di Maria on £200K. Ozil is still our highest earner on £150K, so you can't bring in a guy on £100K more without grief.
 
KM said:
:lol:

It's lovely how I'm the one who's supposedly with an agenda when you're the one who's claiming or implying that we signed him because you didn't showed an interest or something like that. Keep on with that thinking if that helps you to sleep well at night.
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There is noway we would have done business at that kind of level. Mourinho touched on it when he talked about Shaw, said if he offered him the wages Man Utd did then other players would ask for more. How can we pay Falcao £250k a week and then our next highest earners are probably below £150k pw.

I'm sure Wenger did show interest but Falcao was offered to every top club and the terms were pretty much fixed. You can swallow that but we simply couldn't. Our squad still needs more additions and we have to budget for that, we were in for a DM and CB but it didn't work out in the end. We couldn't just blow it on all one striker. Your squad needed a CM much more than it needed Falcao but you can afford to bring Falcao in. Wenger doesn't buy for the sake of buying though, if he did he would have bought Fabregas in.

KM said:
Yes, I respect that.

But now that the new TV deals, Puma deal and the stadium debt mostly paid off, are you telling me that signing Falcao wasn't in Wenger's range?
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Our stadium debt is not mostly paid off actually. Your Chevloret deal is worth almost as much as our Puma & Emirates deals put together, we simply can't compete with your lot when it comes to top end wages. But unlike before we can go for much better players
 
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