Pogue posted a stat earlier that showed Welbeck had a better goals per minute ratio that Rooney or RVP last season (excluding pens). 4th best in the league in fact.
Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player
- Thread starter KiD MoYeS
- Start date
- Status
Pogue posted a stat earlier that showed Welbeck had a better goals per minute ratio that Rooney or RVP last season (excluding pens). 4th best in the league in fact.
Mockney has been the voice of reason in this thread, in the middle of some ridiculous hyperbole and melodrama.
Fake. They're in different kits.
When someone posted the total goals to games tally of last 5 years combined for all years, Welbeck came up ridiculously short. Pogue then proceeded to tell that Welbeck is 24 and we should all find stats for Van Persie and Rooney when they were 24, as if that would prove anything.
People have agenda and keep harping on it. He wanted to play more and he wanted to play through the middle. Hopefully he'll get both at Arsenal and we didn't stand in his way and sold him to a rival. It's a bit shit, but it works for the player and the club. I was wondering if people would accuse Welbeck for being a Judas today and then there are these posts about how we've done a massive mistake and strengthened Arsenal. It's as if people would have been happy if Arsenal got Falcao and us keeping Welbeck.
You'd think we'd just lost Messi and Ronaldo combined into one player.
Was it Noodlehair who complained that the club, Van Gaal and Woodward lied to Welbeck and treated him like a piece of meat? feck me, I must have been dreaming about the 'Slow motion zombie passing' slating Anderson as if he's a piece of meat. Moaners gonna moan.
As well as their fans cheering on SSN last night when they said that he hadn't done his medical yet. Weird lot.
Really? On form Rooney, possibly. But he hasn't been on form for us since 2010.
It's not so much with what Welbeck had done, it was his potential which we didn't get the chance to utilise fully that pisses me off the most. He is the closest thing to a Muller/Ronaldo universal attacker that England has produced in the last 20 or so years. Nowhere else in England, is there a player of similar age who has the tactical intelligence and versatility to play a variety of roles, allied to a strong workrate as Danny Welbeck. All the kid needed was a chance. We largely played him in a system where he couldn't roam and interchange and played him from on the left, so he was double-fecked in that regard.
Playing in the free-roaming system that Arsenal have with Sanchez, Ramsey, and Ozil behind him, he will absolutely thrive, and it is what we should have been doing ever since Moyes was binned.
I have no idea why we are playing with such a regimented system as 3-5-2 when the last two seasons have shown that such a philosophy will not work for the players we have, and LVG in the past has always relied on interchange, movement and pace in attack.
Wilson, as good as he is, isn't the same player as Welbeck. He is a pure 9 and nothing else. Yes, he has a decent all-round game, but it's nothing like Welbeck's. For instance, you would never ask Wilson to do a man-marking job on Alonso.
Also, the strikers we now have at our disposal are all very similar, Wilson included. They don't have the adaptability to interchange position in a fluid system which would help in relieving the pressure on the midfield. Welbeck was the only one who could. Rooney used to be able to, but hasn't since 2009, and judging from his performances for both club and country since, doesn't look like he either has the need or want, to perform in such a manner anymore...
In a word, we fecked up big time in selling Welbeck both in the short and medium to long-term....
That's just not true though FF. He proved last season that he was prolific when leading the line for us. You're making this statement based on him being shunted on the left wing/left forward. A role that he's clearly uncomfortable with. As proven by my stats earlier in the thread, when he played in the middle as a CF he was ruthless in front of goal.
So bollocks to that statement.
I've been trying to say that all day, thank you for putting it more eloquently.
That's just not true though FF. He proved last season that he was prolific when leading the line for us. You're making this statement based on him being shunted on the left wing/left forward. A role that he's clearly uncomfortable with. As proven by my stats earlier in the thread, when he played in the middle as a CF he was ruthless in front of goal.
So bollocks to that statement.
But RS, he's never going to play through the center, whether or not Falcao has been signed or not. In essence, he's going to continue to be played at the same position and his contribution is going to be minimal. Out of interest, do you feel the same way about Kagawa?
His stats over 5 years are irrelevant. Players can change a lot over that time. He added some goals to his game last season. His ratio was actually very good as the stats show. The fact that people didn't cop onto this improvement is more down to lazy analysis than any fault of his. Once a tag is attached to a player it's often difficult to shake off. Especially when not given a run of games to do it.
I think he's a cracking player and will be excellent for Arsenal. I would have much preferred to see them struggle with Sanogo for 4 months but clearly you feel different.
I know how you feel mate, it's like banging your head against a brick wall on much of this forum, tbh... There are more well-informed ones out there, but this one tops it for the banter and is easily the biggest on the net, so it's definitely a case of apples and oranges.
Well he did last season, 13 times (3 sub appearances). Scored 8 goals and got 3 assists during those 13 appearances. You don't seem to think that's prolific enough. Which makes me wonder what you must think of RvP given his stats were worse than Dannys last season (when you average out the games).
I don't begrudge Danny for leaving, he want's regular first team football in his best position. Something we seemed unwilling to give him. I just think we're showing ourselves up a bit, we've got a 31 year old who's injury prone. We have Falcao (on loan) who may very well decide to go elsewhere if worst case scenario we don't get CL football again. We then have Rooney, who has been declining and Wilson who's a young kid.
I think it's a bit absurd really. We've done the all in move hoping that Falcao will inspire the troops enough to get us into the CL when imo we had a player capable of doing that and have just sold him to our top 4 rival who was in desperate need of a quality striker.
As for Kagawa, he's a different case because not once did he show his Dortmund form at the club. Danny however has been improving with each season and looks ready to be a 20/25 goal season striker. I think why some caftards are so pissed is because we believe he's ready to be a starter for United, while others still don't rate him. Ultimately we'll see who's right in a few months time when Dannys settled at Arsenal.
I don't begrudge Welbeck this move, at this moment, Arsenal can give him what we can't. I'm happy for him, he'll play in Champions League and it's a brave call by the club to send him to a rival. It may bite us back in the arse, or it may have saved us that Arsenal didn't get Falcao instead. I just think an 8 game streak (or a 13 game streak) isn't a fair indicator especially given that both Van Persie and Rooney are here and they have proven players (rightly or wrongly)
But I hope you do realize that you sound like Mad Winger making excuses for Kagawa not playing in his preferred position
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Welbeck's potential. I love him and he gave his best for the club and always tried his best for us and I'll happily wish for the best in his career. Fair enough, I think we should just agree to disagree.
All things considered I'm happy with this. RyRoc (a Gooner) summed it up perfectly earlier in the thread:
I agree with everything he said. He's the type of forward that will fit seamlessly into the side, he has strong link-up play like Giroud and can hold the ball up. What he has over Giroud however is that pace and therfore he can be a outlet for the likes of Ozil and Cazorla. Welbeck can make runs that Giroud simply cannot.
Our biggest issue in a attacking sense is a stagnant forward like, but with players like Welbeck, Ox, Walcott, Sanchez and even Campbell and Gnabry we will have genuine speed when we attack.
Plus he's British too, so now we have a core of players that I don't see wanting to move in the future (unless of course the likes of Barca or Real come in for them). I wonder what Alan Pardieu has to say about this.
At the end of the day we have replaced a bang average player with a world class one, I like Danny but Jesus people are acting like he's Ronaldo #2, he's a good squad player at best. The squad is stronger, I don't really give 2 fecks about Arsenal either, Welbeck or not they won't win the league but will finish in the top 4.
Good post but massive generalization (see bolded). We simply don't know what Wilson will turn out to be when he is 24.
Also, it is impossible to give him regular game time when we have Rooney and Van Persie ahead of him in the pecking order and wasn't fine with a bit part role. What would you have done had you been LVG? He has bigger problems to think about (things like getting us back to CL) to really worry and care too much about how fan's sentiments would be hurt if Welbeck's demands are not met and he leaves.
Tell me something, wouldn't you have questioned LVG had he kept Welbeck, tried to set up our play based on his strengths and then failed to get top 4? If he is questionable for that then he has every right to choose his starting eleven and he didn't see Welbeck in that.
Also about the Alonso part. We won't be playing him anytime soon so that's taken care of.
Wasn't the reasoning to stick Welbeck on Alonso was that our midfield wasn't going to be able to cope with Madrid's midfield. Although I do remember Danny being United's best player that night.
We may as well sell Januzaj and Wilson then. That's a daft argument. The whole point of having younger lads in the squad is to take over the reigns when the older ones leave. Welbeck was ready to take on the responsibility, if you don't play him, how can you ever find out if he can hack it or not? The fact is that when Danny was given the chance he delivered.
How exactly is Wilson meant to get any games as a CF? He'll have the same issue Danny had, but this time with 3 World Class strikers rather than two. You say i'm making excuses, i'm actually talking facts Fishy. Bit of a difference. But haters gunna hate.
Good post, but isn't it the case that Welbeck doesn't want to be that versatile attacker who will do a job man marking Alonso for you any more? It seems to be that he wants out because he wants to be the central man up front and it isn't going to happen for him here. I'd agree with you that in an ideal world he'd stay and excel in a squad role as a good tactical option. Could be that LVG's just told him flat out he doesn't want him, which would be a shame, but since there have been rumours for a while about him wanting out I'd lean the other way.
Either way it's a shame but I think it's far from the disaster some are making it out to be. Many better players have left us for one reason or the other (including academy products) and we've gotten over it. It's far from set in stone that he's going to turn into a world beater at Arsenal. We could at least wait for him to turn in to this star player before we have a meltdown about it.
Danny Welbeck plays for Arsenal, we shouldn't give a shite about him anymore in my opinion. He's just another player.
Why didn't he release a farewell letter?
Yeah, but again, the system we deployed and seemingly will continue to deploy, is one which did not, and does not suit Welbeck. In the fluid 4-2-3-1 we had when Ronaldo, Tev etc were around, Danny would have thrived. It was only when those two left that we regressed tactically. It looked good again when Welbeck came through in 2011 along with Cleverley, but then the 6-1 happened and we never got that system back. In such a system, it didn't matter where you would play nominally because the amount of interchange that would be happening made it a moot point. Playing at Arsenal with players of the intelligence of Ramsey, Sanchez and Ozil, he will get that and he will positively thrive.
We may as well sell Januzaj and Wilson then. That's a daft argument. The whole point of having younger lads in the squad is to take over the reigns when the older ones leave. Welbeck was ready to take on the responsibility, if you don't play him, how can you ever find out if he can hack it or not? The fact is that when Danny was given the chance he delivered.
How exactly is Wilson meant to get any games as a CF? He'll have the same issue Danny had, but this time with 3 World Class strikers rather than two. You say i'm making excuses, i'm actually talking facts Fishy. Bit of a difference. But haters gunna hate.
Sorry, RS I'm just not seeing it. If you read posts, he's either a Muller/Ronaldo-esque player or the one who'll score goals if he's played through the center and I just don't see how we'll fit him as a central striker with Van Persie and Rooney (And Falcao in the tea)
For the record, I'm not a Welbeck hater, I like the lad and wish him all the best. I was dreading that he'll get a terrible reaction to force through a move to Arsenal.
True. My point being you can't have a player simply because he fits a very specific use case and there is no one better than him in the squad. We will cross the bridge when we get to it but if Welbeck isn't happy to sit on the bench and LVG isn't willing to give him a starting berth then this is the best solution possible.
RvP missed 15 games last season through injury. He scored 11 goals as a CF in 17 starts last season, compared to Dannys 7 goals in 10 starts. (RVP played 500 more mins than Danny). Ultimately it comes down to whether you think the signing of Falcao and therefore the selling of Danny is necessary when we still have obvious flaws in other areas of the squad.
We'll get to see what Danny has in his locker now at Arsenal because he will be given a chance to start more games in his best position. Just think many of us think/know that we'll have egg on our faces by the end of the season when Dannys had a stormer. It's not that we think he's Ronaldo or Messi, but simply that he looked ready to up his game to the next level and become that 20/25 goal season striker. It's frustration more than anything.
Why would he?
I'm sorry but he's never in his life looked like a 25 goal a season player, his finishing and all round play within the box is infuriating.One good spell of scoring 7 goals in almost 2 and a half years and your conclusion is to start comparing him with RvP who almost scored more in one season than Danny did in his entire United career?
Last edited:
Personally, if it was me, I'd have sold Rooney when Chelsea came knocking last summer. He is the one player who did not fit. Kagawa was a better 10 and RVP was a better striker. That way, we would not have had this clusterfeck of an issue, and we would have had funds to actually balance the squad.
A 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, with fluid interchange a la our 2006-8 teams, would have been ideal. Welbeck would have had the perfect opportunity to play centrally either as the 1, or as part of the 3 in behind.
It's not so much a case of keeping Welbeck and playing to his strengths, but keeping Welbeck and having a tactical setup which benefited the team as a whole. We now have the players to have a 4-3-3 at the very least, and in such a set up, Welbeck would have been fine.
Also, the age profile of the strikers we now have means that we will be having a huge outlay in the medium to short term, replacing 3 strikers when if Welbeck had stayed, we'd have only been replacing one. All three are seemingly very similar also. Welbeck was the only one who was different and had a rounded enough game to play the role differently.
On Wilson, I can only judge on what I've seen, and what I've seen so far, is a player with a very rounded game for a Striker, but in essence, that is what he is: a Striker. Welbeck at the age of 15 was running the show at RW for our U18s in the FAYC. He was starring as a no.10 in our reserves and supplying Macheda, then went to Sunderland and played off the LW in a front three with Gyan and Bent. Comes back to Utd and was very promising as a striker in a partnership with Rooney, indeed, along with Saha, the only two partnerships where both Rooney and his strike partner thrived.
Can Wilson say he has played such a varied amount of roles? At most, he can say he had a decent stint at LW for the U18s, but once he moved to CF, that was it.
Yeah, I didn't think he would tbh. He had the choice to join a team that wasn't as good as arsenal but he still chose arsenal knowing they're our direct rivals. He did what was best for him in his mind and van gaal did what was best for us, in his mind. Im not sure about anyone else but I wont be missing him at all. Of course, its not a great feeling that a kid who played for us since the age of 8 when ahead and left us but who cares now? Like the title says, Danny welbeck - Arsenal player.
Spot on, from start to finish.
Welbeck was never our best player, nor was he the most talented or influential but what he did do was bleed red, every time he came onto the field he gave it his all. It's really a shame he couldn't make it here and it's gutting to see him going to Arsenal but what's cut me deepest is that, like many others have said, he was ours and he represented what Manchester United was all about. I think he's going to have a great career, good luck, Danny!
What an odd question. Negredo's done it after one season. Danny supported this club all his life and has been here his entire career. If Ekangemene managed one I'm sure Danny could as well.
Nah, it's not as if it's obligatory for player's to issue farewell statements. He owes the club nothing now as he's already earned the club £16 million. He has chosen to join our direct rivals, he can do what he wants.
The same thing happened to Rooney when Ronaldo left United. He was finally free of the Ronaldo shackles and raised his game and scored a bucket load more goals. Welbeck was in a similar position, being shunted out on the wing, same happened for England. When he was played as a CF however, he scored goals and assisted. Not every player develops at the same speed, he was utilised during the Sir Alex years as a hard working asset (very much the same role Rooney had when Ronnie was in the team, to help balance the team).
I think you're wrong for what it's worth. But again, as I said previously, we'll have to wait and see before we know who's right. I just know for the record that you're horribly wrong. This is my pet annoyance with fans, they can't see the difference with a player being utilised in their best position and being utilised elsewhere, they just bundle all of it together and rate them as a player based on all performances ignoring what role they were playing as.
But if Danny played on the wing or upfront that doesn't magically change his ability to finish chances or be more dangerous in the box, in both roles he's always let down in a goal scoring situation. He will run all day, he's got pace and his link up play is decent but one thing I can't ever see him being is a top scorer unless Arsenal are creating him about 5 chances a game because he will miss 4 of them.
Maybe not this season because Giroud is injured but I bet he gets shifted out on the wing before long, he will play the role Chamberlain or Walcott do, funny enough the latter wants to be a #9 as well but hes in the same situation.
Maybe not this season because Giroud is injured but I bet he gets shifted out on the wing before long, he will play the role Chamberlain or Walcott do, funny enough the latter wants to be a #9 as well but hes in the same situation.
he doesnt use social media, so maybe that will come later.....or he just doesnt give a feck and looks forward to his new challenge, what a lot of poster should do too, instead of crying on the forum.
- Status