Mate, use paragraphs, it's hard to read like that. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I feel like you're saying we should have welbeck, rather than van persie if we want to succeed at top level? Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting. But If I'm not... Good lord. The same van persie, who you're pointing out isn't as good as his first year at United who has outscored Danny this year? While out of form? While Danny plays on his favourite position?
Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player
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At least no one can argue that we'd be better off this season if we'd kept Welbeck.
Once again, if you're considering reading that wall of nonsense, don't: it's a wall of nonsense.
Was shit vs QPR . Made a few decent runs, scored a goal against WHU now he's great again? 'kay.
Story of Bambi fecking Welbeck.
Story of Bambi fecking Welbeck.
this thread. There was a time a few weeks ago where it settled down a bit, now people are back in here.
It will be like this every time he scores.
So about nine more times this season.
Yeah you'd think that would be logical. Except that's exactly the argument that's been going on
sorry for not using paragraphs..
No I am suggesting we should use two different strikers, this system with two slow no9 doesn't work well or can work much better with someone like Welbeck operating off the striker. Falcao doesn't convinced me so far, but needs time, anyway he is similar to Persie, and both should not play together but I explained it several times before so I will not waste my time here. RVP overall play for the team is average at best, his scoring record is average as well, wastes a lot of chances, If it was welbeck everybody would be talking about it.. I don't count hold up play which is absolute basics for any striekr in the world and he often slows the game down too much even we are for instance 3 on 3 in a quick counter, but comfortable fan of midtable club could say "good hold up play Robin." I demand more. Putting pressure on defenders, chasing the ball - again basics, he is as slow as player can be and can't do this, ffs we could have Berbatov..
he may scored 4 more goals IN THE LEAGUE but welbecks workrate and all round attributes help his team to play better as a whole. So these 4 goals doesn't seem too important to me as someone's overall play can lead to even more goals for the team. And again I used Welbeck AS AN EXAMPLE but if you asked me yes I would give him a chance in the team to play alongside RVP or Falcao. He wasn't one of the most important players in that later stages of Fergie's career for no reason.. RVP coud play better in 4-2-3-1 but I would want a better striker anyway, he is past his best, two good games doesn't turn it around...
At their best, both Falcao and RvP are both capable of scoring 1 goal per game. When they play as a partnership, that average goes down to less than 0.5 goals per game because they're such a poor fit for each other. The whole becomes less than the sum of its parts.
Welbeck brings the best out of his strike partners as is evident with Sanchez and Rooney before him. A Welbeck + RvP partnership would result in more goals than a Falcao + RvP partnership. I don't know why people are so obsessed with spreading the goals between individuals. It's only team goals that count.
Welbeck brings the best out of his strike partners as is evident with Sanchez and Rooney before him. A Welbeck + RvP partnership would result in more goals than a Falcao + RvP partnership. I don't know why people are so obsessed with spreading the goals between individuals. It's only team goals that count.
Not 100% sure that is entirely true. Wellbeck and RVP never really seemed to strike any good partnership on the pitch from what I can remember, although Wellbeck seemed to play well with Rooney.
Against Newcastle and first half against Spurs there were actually some good signs that our strike partnership is dangerous.
Anyway I agree that we need more pace up top ideally, but like they say there is more than one way to skin a cat. Mata seems to be able to find Falcao and Rooney seems able to pick out RVP. I don't think saying them playing together is going to lead to them scoring 0.5 goals a game is even factual, sounds like you just picked that one out of the sky.
I'm open to seeing how it works, and will make my mind up after more than 3 or so games of them playing together also with Di Maria coming back into the picture hopefully they will both be getting quite a few chances per game.
Interesting. Thanks for laying it out for me again ... in fairness, I'm sure your explanations were fine and understandable which I was replying to last night too .. but if I'm honest, I was reading them on my phone (I hate using phone for browsing) and was after a few beers ... so my faculties were definitely not at their strongest! ha.
I get what you're saying, and I can understand you value the work rate of someone like Danny. And yes, his work rate is great. But for me, for a club to succeed at the highest level, it's players like Van Persie and Falcao you need. OK, neither is currently playing at their best - and yet Van Persie has more goals, Falcao is not far off him. At the top level, when the chances are thin, it's those two I'd want the ball falling to. And yes, you'll say Van Persie isn't currently knocking them in for fun - true. But he's out of form. We know what the guy is capable of .. and at this point we also know what Danny is capable of. And look at the difference in output?
You say that his play helps the team play better overall, well if so, with all the talent at Arsenal's disposal, if the mighty Danny truly makes them play better than a supposedly wasteful Van Persie - why have we got 3 more points than them? Despite a horrific injury record, whilst still learning a new system?
I know you say Van Persie is past his best. And perhaps you're right, he was indeed phenomenal a few years back, so it's hard to stay at that. But at the end of the day, his current, is far, far better than Welbeck's, and I'd argue far better than Welbeck's will ever be.
Well this is pure guesswork to be honest. You can't say for definite that it would result in more goals than Falcao and RVP.
Football discussion is all about guesswork. But it's blatantly obvious that we lack pace and a counter-attacking threat which can create space for others.
Yeah, obviously, but just looking at their current numbers. We're making chances, but the pair keep making the same kinds of runs. It's not a complementary partnership. Cloning Aguero wouldn't mean that City score twice as many goals, for example. You need a bit of variety.
Should never have sold him. Massive mistake and he offers and stands for more than just goals. He's home grown young and English, not to mention quite good. 16 mil was about 10 mil too short and to our rivals....absolutely crazy
Sometimes they do yes, and sometimes they don't. I agree with the variety part, but actyally even though they are both no9s (as were Yorke and Cole btw) they actually don't play the game exactly the same way. As I'm sure as Falcao gets game time and fitness and confidence you will see.
Anyway like I said no point judging it by just watching 3/4 games.
This doesn't just come with the Strikers though... you can add pace to midfeild and get the same effect e.g Di Maria and another winger. Like I said before more than one way to skin a cat
While I see the point that he could've added more to us and would've been useful to keep, as well as the fact that he shouldn't have been sold to a rival, I don't get the idea that £16m was nowhere near enough for him. What club is going to pay more than that for a player who'd have been the 4th choice striker for a club that had finished 7th, and who has never managed more than 9 goals in the league, despite the fact he's coming into his prime years? £16 was about as much as we were going to get for him.
My thoughts exactly. Welbeck was more than good enough for his place in the squad.
He'll be on the bench at Arsenal once Wallcott is fit, why is he worth more than £16m?
Pretty sure this was bumped before he scored.
50% of the time, Yorke made a dummy run and Cole exploited the space. The other 50% of the time, Cole made the run and Yorke was the one who tried to get on the end of things.* It was a partnership that worked because United always had some kind of attacking threat in the box.
With Welbeck, 80% of the time he's the one who makes the dummy rum for Sanchez to get into the space. It's a partnership that works just as well. As long as someone's doing each job, that's all that matters. The obsession with both players being regular goalscorers is silly.
Welbeck's problem is that he's not selfish enough, but as long as you pair him with someone who is, it still works well. Playing 2 selfish players just mean they end up treading on each others toes. Falcao/RvP are nothing like Yorke/Cole in terms of being willing to do the legwork.
Just look at how much more threatening we looked at the start of the season when Welbeck was in the side. It's taken this long for us to get back to that level of danger, and that's only because the midfield is finally stating to click.
*Numbers may have been pulled out of my arse. They're meant to be illustrative rather than definitive.
And before anyone brings Heskey into the discussion, the level of quality on the ball is completely different. Tevez or Hughes would be better comparisons.
Good point. Having a non-prolific striker worked well for us when Tevez was here.
Their level of quality is a removed from Welbeck as Welbeck is from Heskey.
At Welbeck's age, Heskey had broken the 20 goal barrier for a season. And made double figures more than twice.
Nothing is worse than the faces Giroud pulls after missing a chance. I've seen better acting in 70s porn.
I think a key issue for him was that he didn't want to be a squad player - something we definitely couldn't guarantee.
Although to be fair, looking at their reputation, I didn't expect our strike force would be this 'bad'.
Welbeck scores while our two strikers have a frustrating match, so a bunch of posters start calling his sale a big mistake - makes sense, I guess. But I would go even further - true, Welbeck scored, but Diuf scored two. Now imagine if we had Welbeck AND Diuf upfront against Spurs - we would've won 3:0!!!! That would've made everyone take note. How could we make such a terrible mistake selling them! What were we thinking!!!!
Yep, very good player who will improve under Wenger. Complements our Britcore of Szczesny*, Gibbs, Chambers, Walcott, Ox, Ramsey, Wilshere, Jenkinson. And a snip at £16M.
* adopted.
Yup, good business for everyone. He'll play more regularly there, we'll get rid of an unhappy player who wouldn't play too often here.
Disagree about the snip though, great business to get 16M for a player like Welbeck.
Not when Lukaku cost £28M and Schlong £12M.
I'd agree that Lukaku was overpriced alright, but he's a far better player than Welbeck, and I see him improving a lot more than him too. I feel like we're seeing close to Danny's best. In the previous 2 seasons alone in the league, Lukaku scored more Premier league goals than Welbeck in his entire career.
I think we definitely could have got more for Welbeck if we had of put him on an open market. Also, given Arsenal's situation when they bought him, we surely should have demanded more.
I don't care that we sold him but given he's relatively young and an England international with plenty of PL experience, we should have got more for him. That's not indicitive of his ability, moreso the 'being an England international' tax. Look how much the likes of Hendo and even Young went for.
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I think how we sold him was a mistake but calling it a "massive" one is a bit much considering one team sold a squad player to another.
You can't take this place seriously when it comes to Welbeck, though. Look at some of the hysteria and downright revisionism that is posted about him. It's mental, it's only on here I find such nonsense.
But yeah, we shouldn't have sold him to Arsenal and if we were going to, we should have gotten more than we did. It was kinda stupid on our part. In saying that, I think all this mass hysteria will die down at some point and people will accept that he is nothing more than a good capable squad player. We haven't sold a world beater, just a decent homegrown player.
No way. He won't score more than 12 in the league. He's an overrated English donkey.
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Run dem laps danny boy
Lukaku is a better player and three years younger though.
We should have asked more for Welbeck (considering that you needed a striker) but 16m was a fair price.
He was our youth player. We were lucky to get that amount. Just look at the list below for how much we got for our previous Academy graduates (above £1m);
Beckham to Real 25m (exception)
Welbeck to Arsenal 16m
Phil Neville to Everton 3.5m
Frazier Campbell to Sunderland 3.5m
Nicky Butt to Newcastle 2.5m
Phil Bardsley to Sunderland 2m
Danny Higginbottom to Derby 2m
Beckham to Real 25m (exception)
Welbeck to Arsenal 16m
Phil Neville to Everton 3.5m
Frazier Campbell to Sunderland 3.5m
Nicky Butt to Newcastle 2.5m
Phil Bardsley to Sunderland 2m
Danny Higginbottom to Derby 2m
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