Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player

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Fergus' son said:
My point is that many people seem to underate Rooney, and think that far inferior players will prove or to be or are more important to the team than him, or that particular types of manager would discard him, not just the poster quoted.

I actually think claiming Nani would be better than Rooney is almost as strange as saying Welbeck is a better player.
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It really it isn't (remember, we're talking for 2012).

Nani was our best player in 2010-2011 season. In fact, it can be argued that Nani was our best player from the second half of 2009-2010 to the second half of 2011-2012 season. That is two years. Rooney on the other side had an injury on 2010 and then next season wanted to leave which also affected his game. Saying back then that Nani is better than Rooney wasn't nothing outlandish. You know, because he was playing better than Rooney. Hectic never said that he has been a better player during their careers, or Nani will be remembered as the better player in the end. Just that there was a debate about which of them is better, and Nani was playing better.

Welbeck better than Rooney/RVP/Falcao/Henry/Pele/Jesus and God on the other hand was ridiculous.
 
Hectic said:
It shows that Van Persie isn't on some old man decline like people worried over, and given Van Persie has had a long career as a world class striker, a month of good form is very promising as we know from experience he can turn that into many months of great form.
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Van Persie is in decline but his slump was mainly due to a natural fatigue after the world cup and the fact that at his age, you need more time to recover.

Now even tired or injured, he is better than Welbeck.
 
Amar__ said:
OK, my bad then, but still, Falcao still doesn't look like better option(he still has time, but tbf I think we would pick more points so far if we had Welbeck being available all the time instead of Falcao being injured at the same time. I also like van Persie, but one month or so of his good form still doesn't prove anything, during his best season here he was shit in second half, so let's wait to the end of season and see how good his seasons will be.
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:lol: RVP - the guy who had only a month of good form. Said by the great Amar.

To be fair, who I am to disagree with this. What does it prove a good month for RVP compared to the great record Welbeck has over many years.
 
Hectic said:
I think Falcao is definitely a better option, if Arsenal had the choice I'd imagine they would have taken him as well.
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Of course he should be better option, but so far for us he wasn't, that's why I said that those comments still don't look silly at all, considering Falcao was brought just for goals and he scored just two goals for us. Also, I think people are ignoring that Welbeck is much younger and will become better player in year or two when we will be searching for new striker, probably even next season if we don't keep Falcao, which was main argument for me for keeping Welbeck.
 
Revan said:
:lol: RVP - the guy who had only a month of good form. Said by the great Amar.

To be fair, who I am to disagree with this. What does it prove a good month for RVP compared to the great record Welbeck has over many years.
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I meant this season of course. :wenger:
 
Hectic said:
I think Falcao is definitely a better option, if Arsenal had the choice I'd imagine they would have taken him as well. Welbeck has never, in his career, had half a season like Van Persie's first for us. That's down playing it somewhat, these are Van Persie's stats for us since he joined: 79 games - 67 goals/assists. It shows that Van Persie isn't on some old man decline like people worried over, and given Van Persie has had a long career as a world class striker, a month of good form is very promising as we know from experience he can turn that into many months of great form.
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People love to say that players are in decline. Not long ago, people were saying the same for Messi.

And agree with you for Falcao. The fact that he has the same goal/assist stats as Welbeck on EPL, regardless that he has played only 25-30% of the minutes Welbeck played, tells a story in itself. And fortunately there is an another half of the season, when people will laugh even more with those who were against Falcao's signing because of Welbeck.
 
Amar__ said:
Of course he should be better option, but so far for us he wasn't, that's why I said that those comments still don't look silly at all, considering Falcao was brought just for goals and he scored just two goals for us. Also, I think people are ignoring that Welbeck is much younger and will become better player in year or two when we will be searching for new striker, probably even next season if we don't keep Falcao, which was main argument for me for keeping Welbeck.
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You can't make this kind of conclusions based on only a few months. Otherwise Di Maria would have been shit too considering that he has played less than half of the matches and so hasn't contributed that much.
 
At least try to read what are we discussing about before taking it out of context. Why the feck would I say that van Persie had just one good month of good form for us in two and a half years? Incredible really, I guess you have to explain everything in detail.
 
Revan said:
You can't make this kind of conclusions based on only a few months. Otherwise Di Maria would have been shit too considering that he has played less than half of the matches and so hasn't contributed that much.
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It all started by me responding to Hectics summary of these few months, no one made any conclusions yet. I even said the same thing as you in couple of my posts, please read everything before quoting random parts.
 
Amar__ said:
Of course he should be better option, but so far for us he wasn't, that's why I said that those comments still don't look silly at all, considering Falcao was brought just for goals and he scored just two goals for us. Also, I think people are ignoring that Welbeck is much younger and will become better player in year or two when we will be searching for new striker, probably even next season if we don't keep Falcao, which was main argument for me for keeping Welbeck.
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Welbeck has scored 3 goals and Falcao has scored 2 goals having played less. You think Welbeck would be satisfied on the bench with 2 more seasons? I highly doubt it. Even if you think we shouldn't have sold him there's no point keeping an unhappy player who wants to leave.
 
Amar__ said:
Of course he should be better option, but so far for us he wasn't, that's why I said that those comments still don't look silly at all, considering Falcao was brought just for goals and he scored just two goals for us. Also, I think people are ignoring that Welbeck is much younger and will become better player in year or two when we will be searching for new striker, probably even next season if we don't keep Falcao, which was main argument for me for keeping Welbeck.
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He's 24-and at a point in his career when he should be showing his class. There's zero guarantee he will get any better. There's nothing wrong with riding Falcao until we see what he is, and then bringing in another proven player while Wilson either does or does not become a good striker.

I thought the argument for Welbeck's lack of development was that he didn't get a run as first choice striker-and that he would blossom at Aresenal in that role. Hasn't happened, and won't happen as he's not the first choice striker there either.

Anyway, the arguement is a logical fallacy: he's not first choice striker because he's not as good as people ahead of him, so why should be play in that position?
 
If anybody only had a good month of form this season, it was Welbeck. Even that included internationals.
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
He wasn't. You're summarising that 5 game goal-drought as a whole 2nd half of a season. A period where he still racked up 4 assists. Then he went on a run of scoring 7 goals in the final 7 games of the season (plus 2 more assists).

Definitely not shit.
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Shit was bit too much I agree, but he was two classes below his level from first half of the season.
 
KeninDC said:
He's 24-and at a point in his career when he should be showing his class. There's zero guarantee he will get any better. There's nothing wrong with riding Falcao until we see what he is, and then bringing in another proven player while Wilson either does or does not become a good striker.

I thought the argument for Welbeck's lack of development was that he didn't get a run as first choice striker-and that he would blossom at Aresenal in that role. Hasn't happened, and won't happen as he's not the first choice striker there either.

Anyway, the arguement is a logical fallacy: he's not first choice striker because he's not as good as people ahead of him, so why should be play in that position?
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So you have decided Welbeck hasn't proved himself at Arsenal even though he is still young but Falcao has all the time in the world?
 
At best a backup striker at United. For his sake he needed to go try to be a starter elsewhere. Should have gone to a team like everton instead. Arsenal will buy better strikers than him and most likely already have one anyway.
 
Amar__ said:
So you have decided Welbeck hasn't proved himself at Arsenal even though he is still young but Falcao has all the time in the world?
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Falcao has to prove himself by being fit, Welbeck by being good. It is generally more easy to be fit, rather than good.
 
Amar__ said:
So you have decided Welbeck hasn't proved himself at Arsenal even though he is still young but Falcao has all the time in the world?
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You like Welbeck-fine. And you wished United kept him-fine.

But, to compare Welbeck, who has shown during his career at United and now at Arsenal to be a pretty average striker to Falcao, who has a very good career and is just now recovering full fitness after a major knee operation is just silly.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
At best a backup striker at United. For his sake he needed to go try to be a starter elsewhere. Should have gone to a team like everton instead. Arsenal will buy better strikers than him and most likely already have one anyway.
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Tbf, if he can't displace someone of Giroud's ability, will have to admit to being wrong about him. always believed he'd become a top player.
 
A quick look on Arsenal Mania will tell you that they believe Giroud to be the better number 9. Welbeck failed to impress in that role and has been predictably shunted out to the wing already. He just isn't an out-and-out striker and he has been pretty average since joining Arsenal. If I were an Arsenal fan, I would be disappointed that Welbeck was purchased instead of Wenger biting the bullet and spending big on a striker of sufficient quality.
 
He was lucky to see Giroud injured so quickly after his arrival because he wouldn't even have played that much up front and wouldn't even have scored the few goals he has.
 
Some of you may think he's not United material that's fine, but it was wrong of us to sell him to Arsenal though. £16million is nothing to us, so I have no idea why we strengthened them.
 
SonnyTheHaloPro said:
Some of you may think he's not United material that's fine, but it was wrong of us to sell him to Arsenal though. £16million is nothing to us, so I have no idea why we strengthened them.
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If hes not really scoring freely for them is it really considered strengthening?

Plus I think it was more us thinking about the players career rather than strengthen Asnl. i know some say theres no sentiment in football but I dont think anyone at the club would want to keep a player whos come through our youth setup and is unhappy about future opportunities where we would force him to rot on the bench/reserves rather than let him leave and have a good career.
 
Thing is, if Welbeck was still here and putting in mediocre performances, missing sitters and falling over the ball countless times the same people claiming Danny being good enough for United would be the same people backing him to be sold.
It was the best outcome for Club and Player. We got £16m and removed another player that just wasn't working for Manchester United.
 
SonnyTheHaloPro said:
Some of you may think he's not United material that's fine, but it was wrong of us to sell him to Arsenal though. £16million is nothing to us, so I have no idea why we strengthened them.
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They're were the only interested team, right? And he wanted to go there.

Th other option would have been to leave him on bench for the majority of the season (like Wilson now) which wouldn't have benefited neither us, nor him.

And who cares that we strengthened them? It isn't like they'll be rivals for titles (in case they will, it won't be with Welbeck anyway) and we already have a far better team than them.
 
SonnyTheHaloPro said:
He got them 3 points against West Brom and 3 points against Villa.
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You can't really look at it like that though. Javier Hernandez won us loads of points during his time here, but he would never have been good enough to start every game.

For Welbeck to be the main man up top, which is the key factor in him leaving us in the first place, he needs to be scoring freely or at least contributing at a consistent level. He's not, he's very hit and miss and despite his early purple patch, Arsenal (or any top team) can't afford such inconstancy with a player that wants to start every game.

I love Welbeck and wish we kept him around, but he wants to be the main man and he's just not good enough for that right now. He might get there, but Arsenal need to stick with him and give him time which could cost them points in the long run.
 
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SonnyTheHaloPro said:
He got them 3 points against West Brom and 3 points against Villa.
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Damn I knew those four points we dropped will come back to haunt us, they helped Arsenal finish the year just five points behind us! I would rather have a striker that can convert the two chances we create on a bad day(Southampton away) than have on that manages just three goals in fourteen games. It was a right decision on our part and moreso because it prolonged Arsenal's search for true top class striker.
 
To be fair to Welbeck, whilst he's currently going through a lean patch, he was a 1 in 2 or thereabouts striker when he started upfront for us and also for England. I wouldn't take his current form to be his steady state goalscoring run rate.
 
Revan said:
They're were the only interested team, right? And he wanted to go there.

Th other option would have been to leave him on bench for the majority of the season (like Wilson now) which wouldn't have benefited neither us, nor him.

And who cares that we strengthened them? It isn't like they'll be rivals for titles (in case they will, it won't be with Welbeck anyway) and we already have a far better team than them.
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I think Spurs and Sunderland were interested on deadline day but yeah I guess he was never going their once Arsenal become interested.

Don't really agree about Arsenal though. Also I think they just might be rivals for the title in the future, they need to have shifted their transfer policy and have started spending big on players, but they always seem to be just 2/3 players short. Right now I'd say they are 1CB, 1CDM and a world class striker away from title challengers. They should of easily won the league last year, and had they bought a top striker they probably would have. They also have the best player in the league in Sanchez, Ozil is world class and can make things happen as well. If they spend big again in the summer, then I think they just might challenge next season.
 
He wanted to leave and LVG was willing to do what the player thought was best for his career. Fair enough.
He's a good footballer, but not suited to striker. It'll be interesting to see whether or how or in what position Wenger develops him.
 
MTR said:
With every day passing I'm forgetting he ever existed. And I was mad at replacing him with Falcao.
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This. While I wasn't exactly mad, I was sad, because I'm sure most of us wanted him to succeed here. It doesn't look a bad decision at all now - he's just not good enough to get the nod ahead of any of our strikers. I wouldn't be surprised if Arsenal brought better strikers in either.
 
thejtrain said:
It doesn't look a bad decision at all now - he's just not good enough to get the nod ahead of any of our strikers.
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I was saying this for years and lambasted for it.
 
Varun said:
Tbf, if he can't displace someone of Giroud's ability, will have to admit to being wrong about him. always believed he'd become a top player.
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I never saw it be honest. I always thought he had some great attributes. His turn of pace could be great, his give and goes/one touch link up was very purposeful, but he always looked too confused a soul in the final third and not just when it came to finishing. While he offered some good things on the ball he wasn't really a creative player. You wouldn't bank on him making the final through pass to set up a team mate. And when you wouldn't bank on him to finish either, then that becomes a problem.
 
We've seen a number of players improve their finishing dramatically, so it's not impossible for welbeck to do so, but composure is a lot harder to improve at Id imagine. Someone like rooney was alwyas composed in the final third despite becoming a much better finisher over the years.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I never saw it be honest. I always thought he had some great attributes. His turn of pace could be great, his give and goes/one touch link up was very purposeful, but he always looked too confused a soul in the final third and not just when it came to finishing. While he offered some good things on the ball he wasn't really a creative player. You wouldn't bank on him making the final through pass to set up a team mate. And when you wouldn't bank on him to finish either, then that becomes a problem.
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I think his biggest problem has always been his lack of "assertiveness" I guess. On the ball he'd always kind of tap it lightly with his toe and just do little give and go's, but he'd never really do anything purposeful or really dribble assertively, whether he was in the middle of the pitch and especially not close to the box. Same with his shooting. Just his whole style of running with the ball and tapping it around seems wrong and seems as if it makes him weaker on the ball then he should be. Never looked convincing I guess on the ball in his movements. It's not just the finishing and movement which was patchy at best.
 
He was supposed to score a boatload of goals at Arsenal though. He even envisaged himself running onto the numerous through balls from all the attacking midfielders.

I really don't see how he fits in the Arsenal system either. People say that he's good in the buildup etc but I disagree. He's not reliable enough, not talking about his finishing either.
 
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