Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player

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golden_blunder said:
You're twist I bit a bit H. People did say vN pressie was washed up yes, but no one suggested Welbeck was a better option based on talent alone.
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A lot of people did, it obviously wasn't the majority, but there was a lot of sentiment at the time that Welbeck would go on to have a much better season and is currently the better option.

You only have to look at the Van Persie thread a few weeks ago to see people calling Van Persie "done".
 
It's only really the last month that he's struggled. Before then he was still getting in great scoring position and just wasn't finding the net which was frusfrating but still you could see the tools were there and he was playing pretty well.

Last month he's been quite poor in most things he's done although had a goal chalked off for a ridiculous non foul against Liverpool. He seems to prefer playing down the middle but can also do a job. He just needs to start carrying the ball again and making off the ball runs - which he was doing plenty at the start of the season.

Overall I've been slightly disappointed not going to lie because I thought his style of play would really suit us and so far it hasn't really happened for him yet. I'm certainly not going to write him off tho. He's proved at international level he can score goals and it does usually take strikers a bit longer to get use to our style of play and am convinced he will have a spell where he gets a few more goals. Jury is out but still a long way to go in my mind.
 
Hectic said:
It's pretty funny reading how many people were so sure that Webeck was a better option than Rooney, Van Persie or Falcao for this season - all of them were questioned at the start, particularly Van Persie which just looks ridiculous now.

Also a lot of comments about throwing away Top 4 because of the transfer, looks like his impact was massively overstated on both sides.
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You used to think Nani was better than Rooney right?
 
Fergus' son said:
You used to think Nani was better than Rooney right?
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I argued Nani could go on to be the better player after 2 years, not that he was or is. I think even now, Nani is as talented as any player in our squad - the closest to Di Maria - but he clearly does not have the mentality of a player like Rooney to stay at this level which is the key thing, natural talent is not enough.

Then again I think he will come back after loan and be a relevation under Van Gaal, so I'm still optimistic of Nani's career here - he's showing through this season and the CL that he still has incredible ability.

It's also not really comparable at all to Van Persie vs Welbeck.
 
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justboy68 said:
People will still be saying he'll turn a corner and become a goalscoring machine when he's 30. Based on nothing whatsoever really. Not a bad player, but no loss either.
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Yeah, but...but, Sturridge did. He's a good player obviously, but I think a lot seemed to just assume he'd transform into some top goalscorer when he was given a run up front because Sturridge did for Liverpool, ignoring the differences between them.
 
golden_blunder said:
It's a bit rich for a Liverpool fan to come in here and question strikers goal scoring ability

How many have your strikers scored this season?
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Why would this ( that's out of his control) stop him having an opinion on Welbeck?
Should Utd fans not have any opinions or posts about rival defenders on here due to our defensive ineptness ? God knows how many posts were made on here criticising rival midfielders over the last 3 season.
Plenty of fans on here were claiming RVP or Rooney should be dropped for Welbeck. Ridiculous then and ridiculous now.
 
Hectic said:
I argued Nani could go on to be the better player after 2 years, not that he was or is. I think even now, Nani is as talented as any player in our squad - the closest to Di Maria - but he clearly does not have the mentality of a player like Rooney to stay at this level which is the key thing, natural talent is not enough.

Then again I think he will come back after loan and be a relevation under Van Gaal, so I'm still optimistic of Nani's career here - he's showing through this season and the CL that he still has incredible ability.

It's also not really comparable at all to Van Persie vs Welbeck.
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My point is that many people seem to underate Rooney, and think that far inferior players will prove or to be or are more important to the team than him, or that particular types of manager would discard him, not just the poster quoted.

I actually think claiming Nani would be better than Rooney is almost as strange as saying Welbeck is a better player.
 
Fergus' son said:
My point is that many people seem to underate Rooney, and think that far inferior players will prove or to be or are more important to the team than him, or that particular types of manager would discard him, not just the poster quoted.

I actually think claiming Nani would be better than Rooney is almost as strange as saying Welbeck is a better player.
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It's not really to be honest. Back around 2011, Nani was developing into one of our most important key players and was one of our most crucial outfield players alongside Rooney for a period. To suggest he had the potential to be even better than Rooney wasn't that ridiculous at the time, even if it seems silly now in hindsight.

And besides, what he thinks about Nani shouldn't really bear any relevance to his opinions on Welbeck.
 
Cheesy said:
It's not really to be honest. Back around 2011, Nani was developing into one of our most important key players and was one of our most crucial outfield players alongside Rooney for a period. To suggest he had the potential to be even better than Rooney wasn't that ridiculous at the time, even if it seems silly now in hindsight.

And besides, what he thinks about Nani shouldn't really bear any relevance to his opinions on Welbeck.
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I actually think it is, it's clear as day to me who the better player is and it always has been, despite Nani's good form for around 4 months.

Who said that what he thinks about Nani should bear relevance to his opinion on Welbeck? I was pointing out that people seem to underrate Rooney massively for some reason hence the silly Nani > Rooney and Welbeck > Rooney statements you see on here.
 
Fergus' son said:
My point is that many people seem to underate Rooney, and think that far inferior players will prove or to be or are more important to the team than him, or that particular types of manager would discard him, not just the poster quoted.

I actually think claiming Nani would be better than Rooney is almost as strange as saying Welbeck is a better player.
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Go back to that thread and look at the timing and poll, I'm pretty sure it was split 50%. Both players had obvious ability to be special players and Nani had clearly contributed far more to United to earn that comparison, it's really nothing like Welbeck vs Van Persie.
 
Fergus' son said:
despite Nani's good form for around 4 months.
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:lol:

I think we see the player and contribution very differently, but that really isn't being fair to him. 4 months is the probably the total amount of decent football Anderson managed over his career here, not Nani.
 
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Fergus' son said:
I actually think it is, it's clear as day to me who the better player is and it always has been, despite Nani's good form for around 4 months.

Who said that what he thinks about Nani should bear relevance to his opinion on Welbeck? I was pointing out that people seem to underrate Rooney massively for some reason hence the silly Nani > Rooney and Welbeck > Rooney statements you see on here.
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That's a tad unfair on Nani. Remembering back, he started to come into some good form into the latter stages of the 2009/2010 season when Rooney was injured and we needed someone to deliver. He was then one of our key players throughout the 2010/2011 season, and was good at the start of 2011/2012 before fading out a bit. He's often shown he has a lot of talent, and saying he's had 4 months of good form is very harsh on him.
 
golden_blunder said:
England=Welbeck > sturridge
League= sturridge > Welbeck
Oh wait he's never fit
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That's not really true, though, is it? He's had an injury plagued season this year, but he was fit for most of last season, and has hardly spent most of his career injured.
 
Cheesy said:
That's a tad unfair on Nani. Remembering back, he started to come into some good form into the latter stages of the 2009/2010 season when Rooney was injured and we needed someone to deliver. He was then one of our key players throughout the 2010/2011 season, and was good at the start of 2011/2012 before fading out a bit. He's often shown he has a lot of talent, and saying he's had 4 months of good form is very harsh on him.
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For "4 months of good form" - between 09/10, 10/11 & 11/12, Nani started 74 games and assisted/scored 51 goals. I don't know why his contribution is downplayed so much.
 
Nani underachieved at Old Trafford. Fact.

Did he have incredible potential? Yes. Did he waste his talents? Yes.
 
Hectic said:
For "4 months of good form" - between 09/10, 10/11 & 11/12, Nani started 74 games and assisted/scored 51 goals. I don't know why his contribution is downplayed so much.
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Yep, people have short memories.

Gannicus said:
Nani underachieved at Old Trafford. Fact.

Did he have incredible potential? Yes. Did he waste his talents? Yes.
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Perhaps, although he still had a very good spell of form for us which lasted a lot longer than 4 months.
 
Cheesy said:
That's not really true, though, is it? He's had an injury plagued season this year, but he was fit for most of last season, and has hardly spent most of his career injured.
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The funny thing is that Welbeck has hardly had a spotless injury record.
 
Hectic said:
It's pretty funny reading how many people were so sure that Webeck was a better option than Rooney, Van Persie or Falcao for this season - all of them were questioned at the start, particularly Van Persie which just looks ridiculous now.

Also a lot of comments about throwing away Top 4 because of the transfer, looks like his impact was massively overstated on both sides.
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Just around month or so ago Welbeck looked like better player than van Persie who had terrible start of the year and was one of our worst attacking players since start of the season, probably even worst, pretty much everyone wanted him on the bench, even his biggest fans. He completely turned it around recently though.

Last year Welbeck also looked like better player than van Persie. You can look at stats(even though Welbeck's weren't bad at all last season), but it was quite obvious that we played much much better football last year when Welbeck was starting when van Persie was injured.

Falcao hasn't proved anything yet, spent most of the time injured so we would probably be much better with keeping Welbeck than buying Falcao(so far!).

And weren't you Welbeck fan just last year?
 
Hectic said:
Go back to that thread and look at the timing and poll, I'm pretty sure it was split 50%. Both players had obvious ability to be special players and Nani had clearly contributed far more to United to earn that comparison, it's really nothing like Welbeck vs Van Persie.
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Again, this is my point. The awful tendency on here to downplay Rooney's capability, so much so that half on here thought Nani would be better than him after showing little in comparison to what Rooney had done in the same time. You can put it down to a massive over estimation of Nani if you like but I firmly believe a large part of it was down to people disliking Rooney, which is clearly one of the biggest 'agenda' topics on here. Hence why I think statements like Welbeck > Rooney are better left ignored, I'm hardly surprised to read that on here and very rarely will it result in a rational worthwhile discussion.

Welbeck > RVP is strange though. I can see why a statement like would leave you baffled. People do have short memories.

I'm delighted RVP, Rooney, Mata and possibly Falcao are all showing such great form and at the same time. Genuinely is one of the most exciting forward partnerships I'v ever witnessed and I really like our team at the moment.
 
Amar__ said:
Just around month or so ago Welbeck looked like better player than van Persie who had terrible start of the year and was one of our worst attacking players since start of the season, probably even worst, pretty much everyone wanted him on the bench, even his biggest fans. He completely turned it around recently though.

Last year Welbeck also looked like better player than van Persie. You can look at stats(even though Welbeck's weren't bad at all last season), but it was quite obvious that we played much much better football last year when Welbeck was starting when van Persie was injured.

Falcao hasn't proved anything yet, spent most of the time injured so we would probably be much better with keeping Welbeck than buying Falcao(so far!).

And weren't you Welbeck fan just last year?
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You've sort of missed all of my point about why writing Van Persie off for those reasons was short sighted. Yes, I loved Welbeck when he was here and didn't want to see him sold at all, much less to Arsenal, but then that isn't the point being discussed, or really relevant to anything. It didn't change the fact that we had much better striking options in three players ahead of him though and another prospect in Wilson after, which made the comments about letting those go ahead of him silly (Wilson aside as everyone would prefer Welbeck as fourth).
 
Hectic said:
You've sort of missed all of my point about why writing Van Persie off for those reasons was short sighted. Yes, I loved Welbeck when he was here and didn't want to see him sold at all, much less to Arsenal, but then that isn't the point being discussed, or really relevant to anything. It also didn't change the fact that we had much better striking options in three players ahead of him though, and another prospect in Wilson after, which made the comments about letting those go ahead of him silly (Wilson aside as everyone would prefer Welbeck as fourth).
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OK, my bad then, but still, Falcao still doesn't look like better option(he still has time, but tbf I think we would pick more points so far if we had Welbeck being available all the time instead of Falcao being injured at the same time. I also like van Persie, but one month or so of his good form still doesn't prove anything, during his best season here he was shit in second half, so let's wait to the end of season and see how good his seasons will be.
 
I'm still waiting for my tagline update, "Knew Welbeck was shit long before the rest of the caf"
 
Amar__ said:
OK, my bad then, but still, Falcao still doesn't look like better option(he still has time, but tbf I think we would pick more points so far if we had Welbeck being available all the time instead of Falcao being injured at the same time. I also like van Persie, but one month or so of his good form still doesn't prove anything, during his best season here he was shit in second half, so let's wait to the end of season and see how good his seasons will be.
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Give me strength.
 
What, we are going to ignore his first few months of this season where he was practically stopping us in some games during which we lost so many crucial points?

I like how everyone is great this season(apart from usual scapegoats of course) and yet we played just two good games and are 10 points behind Chelsea.
 
Amar__ said:
OK, my bad then, but still, Falcao still doesn't look like better option(he still has time, but tbf I think we would pick more points so far if we had Welbeck being available all the time instead of Falcao being injured at the same time. I also like van Persie, but one month or so of his good form still doesn't prove anything, during his best season here he was shit in second half, so let's wait to the end of season and see how good his seasons will be.
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This is fecking pathetic. What has Welbeck proved Arsenal? Most Arsenal fans want him sold even through he is playing in his prefered role... And you want him ahead of Falcao and Van Persie? What the feck...

Amar__ said:
I like how everyone is great this season(apart from usual scapegoats of course) and yet we played just two good games and are 10 points behind Chelsea.
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Not sure if troll... I just can't take you seriously, no offence.
 
Dumat12 said:
This is fecking pathetic. What has Welbeck proved Arsenal? Most Arsenal fans want him sold even through he is playing in his prefered role... And you want him ahead of Falcao and Van Persie? What the feck...


Not sure if troll... I just can't take you seriously, no offence.
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Where the feck did you read I said he proved something at Arsenal?

And the thing about most Arsenal fans wanting him gone, where the feck did you read that too? :lol:
 
golden_blunder said:
A lot of people said RVP should be shipped out because of his form last season and early season, it looked like he wasn't putting the effort in, plus he was constantly injured. Was nothing to do with Welbeck.

A lot of people couldn't see why it wasn't possible to have Welbeck as one of the four to give us something different. Considering LVG has promoted Wilson because of his pace that's a fair question.
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His form last season was fine. He scored 17 goals despite missing a few months because of the injury.

Injury record was a problem, but you just don't ship one of the best strikers in the world because he might get injured in the future or is having a month of bad form.
 
Amar__ said:
OK, my bad then, but still, Falcao still doesn't look like better option(he still has time, but tbf I think we would pick more points so far if we had Welbeck being available all the time instead of Falcao being injured at the same time. I also like van Persie, but one month or so of his good form still doesn't prove anything, during his best season here he was shit in second half, so let's wait to the end of season and see how good his seasons will be.
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I think Falcao is definitely a better option, if Arsenal had the choice I'd imagine they would have taken him as well. Welbeck has never, in his career, had half a season like Van Persie's first for us. That's down playing it somewhat, these are Van Persie's stats for us since he joined: 79 games - 67 goals/assists. It shows that Van Persie isn't on some old man decline like people worried over, and given Van Persie has had a long career as a world class striker, a month of good form is very promising as we know from experience he can turn that into many months of great form.
 
Amar__ said:
What, we are going to ignore his first few months of this season where he was practically stopping us in some games during which we lost so many crucial points?

I like how everyone is great this season(apart from usual scapegoats of course) and yet we played just two good games and are 10 points behind Chelsea.
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He was shite early in the season to be fair, there's no escaping that, but he's a top quality forward and he's started to find some of his better form again recently. We know from his time here and at Arsenal that it's not really some blip for him to be playing well: he's been doing it consistently for years.

No one is trying to argue that he's had a superb season, or even that he's had a particularly good one. Just that he's a top class striker, and his more recent form is what we're used to seeing him produce, as opposed to the shite football he was playing at the start of the season.
 
Amar__ said:
I also like van Persie, but one month or so of his good form still doesn't prove anything, during his best season here he was shit in second half
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He wasn't. You're summarising that 5 game goal-drought as a whole 2nd half of a season. A period where he still racked up 4 assists. Then he went on a run of scoring 7 goals in the final 7 games of the season (plus 2 more assists).

Definitely not shit.
 
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