Shall we count the two goals Falcao scored for Monaco this season then?
Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player
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Shall we count the two goals Falcao scored for Monaco this season then?
Berba also hit a hat-trick against Liverpool. Are you are going take that out as well?
I'd probably prefer Tevez but that's largely down to the fact I think he was a better overall player that season not because Berba hit five against Blackburn.
It does not make sense to take hat-tricks out to me. Plenty of strikers have periods when they don't score for a run of games and make up for that with flurries of goals and hat-tricks. Andy Cole is a good example for United. What matters is how many goals they score and their goals per game.
Yep, I agree. It's all well and good for people to say that not all top sides necessarily have a top striker, but that's the area where Arsenal are lacking at the moment. Giroud is arguably a more reliable goalscorer, but since Wenger tends to spend more now, it wouldn't surprise me if he tried to strengthen in January or next summer. If he does, Welbeck will really struggle to get into the team.
Why not? It's part of a domestic league and part of this season so like European football should be included. The only think I would leave out are international goals for this season.
That Welbeck is a useful guy to have on the team was never in dispute. When he went to Arsenal there was definitely a sentiment among some posters/media that we would live to regret it as he would be the next Thierry Henry. Of course it's early days, but so far he hasn't set the world on fire.
Any average striker playing in a top 4 team and is the starting lone striker would need to have a very shit to not get to 20 goals over the whole season. It's different when you play 2 up top as the goals are spread out more, but 1 up you'd expect them to get to that. But anyways, 2 premier league goals in 8 games for Arsenal, and then 5 in 12 in total. It's not that good for a main striker, but basically just as Welbeck has always been. People seem to still judge him like he's a youngster. He's not. He's turning 24 in a couple of weeks, and the same things are being said about him that were said 3-4 years ago.
Anyone can see that Welbeck is not the type of striker who can lead the line for a team who aspires to challenge for trophies. He's just not a reliable goalscorer, his movement is awful and never finds himself in chances, and even when he does, his finishing more often then not lets him down. That's where he just differs so much with Wilson and why I think Wilson will become a top player here. Welbeck, whether he played out wide, up front, or anywhere else, was always just "meh". Did a few nice things on the ball, has some good give and go's, but ultimately, never really troubled opposition defences. He just never looks a threat and that was ultimately his downfall at United and why he won't keep on being first choice at Arsenal if they want to step up to the next level.
Anyone can see that Welbeck is not the type of striker who can lead the line for a team who aspires to challenge for trophies. He's just not a reliable goalscorer, his movement is awful and never finds himself in chances, and even when he does, his finishing more often then not lets him down. That's where he just differs so much with Wilson and why I think Wilson will become a top player here. Welbeck, whether he played out wide, up front, or anywhere else, was always just "meh". Did a few nice things on the ball, has some good give and go's, but ultimately, never really troubled opposition defences. He just never looks a threat and that was ultimately his downfall at United and why he won't keep on being first choice at Arsenal if they want to step up to the next level.
Given that we won that game 3-2 i wouldnt. Plus i think it was a good achievement given it was in a highly charged game between two bitter rivals where no team wanted to lose. You can take the stance that all games are the same but comparing a tie between United/Liverpool and Asnl/Galatasaray doesn't make sense to me. Especially given how easy Asnl were in that game, it was like a training game. Perhaps had it been at the knockout stage i would have been more mindful of it.
I didn't say discount hat-tricks altogether but in this case i think it distorts the facts. I've watched Welbeck plenty this season and in every game i see of him he has looked anonymous, maybe a good run here or there, good link up but nothing more. Hes not had that explosion many here were predicting at Asnl and if i'm being blunt he looks the same to how he was at United but is just playing a lot more. It just frustrates me when some people (on here and Asnl fans in the real world) use that stat of "5 in 12" as proof that hes really hit the ground running when, had they watched the games, should be telling you the opposite.
I don't think Giroud crossed 20 goals in the league last season and neither did any of Chelsea's strikers. It's not a given by any means.
Not in the league, but I meant in all competitions. Which is what someone said he'd be on course to breaking the 20 goal mark over the season if he kept his current rate up (5 in 12, just 2 in 8 in the league though). Giroud last year got 22 goals, hell Torres even got 22 goals in 12/13 in all competitions. I very much doubt Welbeck will get over 15 league goals this season though. He'll probably be rotated in and out once Giroud comes back too.
It's either 2 in 8, or 5 in 12. Though you could and probably should include the games he played for United this season too (90 minutes I think up top vs MK Dons for example). You can't ignore 1 champions league game but include the others though.
No, some were saying that about Welbeck.
Give it time, Wenger hasn't yet got him to 267.5%.....
It's not. What basically matters is his goals per game. If he is averaging one in every two games, he's doing a good job, which is generally close to his average for Arsenal as a starter.
If he starts drifting into one in 3 as a first team regular when he is starting week in week out then his goal record is not good enough.
If they shift him to the wing or he's only starts getting 10 minute cameos then that obviously changes things slightly but I don't think that will happen with Cazorla, Sanchez and Ozil around. I think he is going to be a starter as a striker either ahead or shared with Giroud. Even if Giroud is the main striker, he will still start plenty of games with the CL and FA Cup.
yeah, but for striker he lacks the killer instinct and the ability to score goals, which IMO is a way bigger downside. He's good technique, good pace and excellent work rate. I can see him being more regular on the wing rather than up front.
Oh my bad i did include the games he played for us this season but you're right one of the three he played for us was in the league cup. Ok 2 in 10... still not great.
EDIT turns out Welbeck has played in 4 UCL games, i thought it was just 2... explains why i thought he had only played 12 games this season! Its actually 15 this season (games for us and them)
True, which is his main problem as a footballer. He may lack that killer instinct, but he lacks much of what a winger needs to be successful in that role, and is goalscoring records are still fairly decent considering.
I expect 10 new pages before the Arsenal vs United match and 30 new pages after that match
I thought Welbeck has been far too "casual" in his play for Arsenal this season. Yesterday against Swansea, he would just meander into the box, and either wait for the ball to drop to him, or if he got the ball, would be very annoying in standing still and making a lazy pass rather than taking ownership and trying to score.
The worst thing was at the end of the game, immediately after losing 2-1, he's walking off the pitch talking and laughing with his mate from Swansea. I would have been furious if I was an Arsenal supporter and I saw that after a big loss like that.
The worst thing was at the end of the game, immediately after losing 2-1, he's walking off the pitch talking and laughing with his mate from Swansea. I would have been furious if I was an Arsenal supporter and I saw that after a big loss like that.
Why?
Yeah why???
To play for Arsenal is just a job for Welbeck.
He hasn't lost a match with his love Manchester United.
You can see how much he wants to win by the fact that he forced his way out of his boyhood club to test himself at a higher level.
It was hilarious seeing Welbeck having a good ol laugh with the Swansea player after the game, He looked like he didn't give a single feck about losing 
, Now compare that with Sanchez reaction............
I would be pretty mad if I saw United players laughing after choking a lead.
, Now compare that with Sanchez reaction............I would be pretty mad if I saw United players laughing after choking a lead.
Never understood why of some people care if a footballer looks miserable after a game if they don't get a result... It doesn't actually mean anything. If they play well on the pitch and put in 100% they can do whatever they want IMO. It's their life.
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but if I had gone through that whole pre-game ritual of getting myself ready and pumped up for a day or two before a game, and then the mentally and physically draining effort of trying to win a game in the rain for 90 minutes, I think just maybe it may take me a few hours to come down from all that. Mates or not, I would be pissed for blowing that lead, at least for the rest of the day, and probably even have a hard time going to sleep because I was so disappointed in myself. Welbeck obviously was all smiles within less than a minute of the whistle being blown, which to me shows that he wasn't that disappointed with the team or himself.
If you read Rio's book, after a loss he said he wouldn't be able to even go to bed after a loss. And if you watch any of the top world-class players, none of them are running around smiling having a laugh with opposition players within seconds of the final whistle. They just tend to storm off into the locker room full of disappointment and determination to never let that happen again.
I wish he stayed and played a role like Ji Sung Park but I can understand why he left.
Welbeck was never as humble as Park. Park was a devoted club servant who did whatever was asked of him to 100% of his abilities. Welbeck only bregudgingly accepted his role and when things didn't go his way he up and left. Lad's got too much ego and hype around him to be a player of Park's caliber, and the worst part is, he just isn't that good.
Oh I agree there, even after a loss in a Sunday league game I'm pretty pissed off for an hour or so after... But I don't see why fans care if somebody else reacts the same. You and I may be different after a game, but I don't really care how other people react and certainly wouldn't be pissed at that player or whatever.
I'd expect more than 10 pages if he does well for England; certainly so once the usual pre-match quotes start being twisted by the press to stir things.
30 pages afterwards is a good shout - maybe depends on how he celebrates when he inevitably scores. I posted in the match day thread a quick scale of possible celebrations:
1. Genuine no celebration (e.g. Denis Law)
2. A showy "look how much I'm not celebrating" celebration (e.g. Cristiano Ronaldo)
3. Normal celebration with Arsenal fans/players
4. The full Ince, in front of the Arsenal fans
5. The full Ince, in front of LVG (or Sir Alex if he is there, with added Usain Bolt celebration)
Anything from 3. and above will guarantee a minimum of 30 pages
I'd expect more than 10 pages if he does well for England; certainly so once the usual pre-match quotes start being twisted by the press to stir things.
30 pages afterwards is a good shout - maybe depends on how he celebrates when he inevitably scores. I posted in the match day thread a quick scale of possible celebrations:
1. Genuine no celebration (e.g. Denis Law)
2. A showy "look how much I'm not celebrating" celebration (e.g. Cristiano Ronaldo)
3. Normal celebration with Arsenal fans/players
4. The full Ince, in front of the Arsenal fans
5. The full Ince, in front of LVG (or Sir Alex if he is there, with added Usain Bolt celebration)
Anything from 3. and above will guarantee a minimum of 30 pages
Haha "the full ince"
Arsenal isn't really creating chances for the strikers and that's a problem for every striker they have. He does to much for the team in lot of the games there are 3-4 players in front of him in the box, while he is outside and trying to help to build an attack.
I'd expect more than 10 pages if he does well for England; certainly so once the usual pre-match quotes start being twisted by the press to stir things.
30 pages afterwards is a good shout - maybe depends on how he celebrates when he inevitably scores. I posted in the match day thread a quick scale of possible celebrations:
1. Genuine no celebration (e.g. Denis Law)
2. A showy "look how much I'm not celebrating" celebration (e.g. Cristiano Ronaldo)
3. Normal celebration with Arsenal fans/players
4. The full Ince, in front of the Arsenal fans
5. The full Ince, in front of LVG (or Sir Alex if he is there, with added Usain Bolt celebration)
Anything from 3. and above will guarantee a minimum of 30 pages
Great post - no. 5 should perhaps be called the Adebayor, running the full length of the pitch to slide in front of the United fans.
I'd expect more than 10 pages if he does well for England; certainly so once the usual pre-match quotes start being twisted by the press to stir things.
30 pages afterwards is a good shout - maybe depends on how he celebrates when he inevitably scores. I posted in the match day thread a quick scale of possible celebrations:
1. Genuine no celebration (e.g. Denis Law)
2. A showy "look how much I'm not celebrating" celebration (e.g. Cristiano Ronaldo)
3. Normal celebration with Arsenal fans/players
4. The full Ince, in front of the Arsenal fans
5. The full Ince, in front of LVG (or Sir Alex if he is there, with added Usain Bolt celebration)
Anything from 3. and above will guarantee a minimum of 30 pages
If I remember correctly didn't he do the Bolt celebration v Derby? Fergie hated it and then sent him out on loan?
Wtf?
Nothing tops Adebayor for classless celebration.
That was 6. in my first draft, but I decided nobody could be that cnutish (other than Adebayor obviously). I did however reference it in my original post in the match day thread:
"I'm thinking 2., but I wouldn't rule out 4. either. I doubt he'll do anything to rival Adebayor against Arsenal a few years ago though."
That sounds about right (though I think it was Stoke?) - I certainly remember talk about Fergie hating it and being of the opinion that a scrawny lad of his age shouldn't be so cocky. TBF to Welbeck, he did score a long-range screamer from what I remember, but Fergie was right to keep him grounded. That celebration taunting Fergie was about the most cnutish thing I could think of to top the scale once I'd ruled-out Adebayor
I'd expect more than 10 pages if he does well for England; certainly so once the usual pre-match quotes start being twisted by the press to stir things.
30 pages afterwards is a good shout - maybe depends on how he celebrates when he inevitably scores. I posted in the match day thread a quick scale of possible celebrations:
1. Genuine no celebration (e.g. Denis Law)
2. A showy "look how much I'm not celebrating" celebration (e.g. Cristiano Ronaldo)
3. Normal celebration with Arsenal fans/players
4. The full Ince, in front of the Arsenal fans
5. The full Ince, in front of LVG (or Sir Alex if he is there, with added Usain Bolt celebration)
Anything from 3. and above will guarantee a minimum of 30 pages
Anyone who takes issue with 3. is a prat IMO.
I actually find number 2. more annoying. Not so much when it's ex-United players scoring against us, as I'm so pissed off about the goal, the celebration doesn't really matter. But when I see ex-players of other clubs doing it I just think they look fecking ridiculous.
"Look at me, look at how much I am not celebrating this goal. I'm so tortured. My soul. It is in agony"
Feck right off.
Yep, agree with this. The Van Persie/Ronaldo celebration, they are pretending that they are sorry they scored a goal but in reality they wanted to score it in that game more than in any other. Ronaldo set the record for number of shots in one game in CL against us, he was desperate to score, even by his own standards, and van Persie is van Persie, you just knew he will score against Arsenal.
So, hopefully Welbeck doesn't score against us, but if he does just celebrate it like any other goal, I couldn't care less.
Especially annoying when they stand completely still, with their hands up doing a "keep away from me" gesture. If you're not gonna celebrate just jog back to the half-way line and stop drawing attention to yourself, you absolute weapon. Sturridge did a particularly annoying version when he scored against Chelsea iirc.
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