Danny Rose | Rose: "I will play up North before I retire"

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Given Jose's comment to Bale about needing to 'say something' before he could sign him I reckon that there has definitely been a bit of tapping up going on here.

Just a shame that Shaw is not in a position to be transferred at the moment because it all makes perfect sense - he's a London lad who would probably jump at the chance to get out of United and join Spurs, and Spurs would be getting a still young player with the potential to be excellent under the tutelage of Pochetino. He's too far off return from injury to be able to be transferred this summer though surely?
 
Obiorahking_ said:
Oh okay my mistake. I agree with you in that regard but I don't think that is an accurate barometer for evaluating defenses. A defense derives its quality from how good it is at defending not from how scary the offense is and when PSG's and Barca's defense actually have to defend, they aren't very good at it.
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I think a defense is helped by multiple things.
I mentioned those that i saw as clearly superior both in play and in quality (RM & BM), and then mantioned clubs that were performing for one reason or another at or above our level. Barca is quite unique in their way, i cant say they are easy to score against just because their defenders aren't good at defending. They are hard to score against, so i have to try and break down why.
I see a lot more of our games than any other club however, so its much easier for me to be critical of our flaws than it is to be of other clubs. Just as its easier for me to praise the massive talents or wc gk we have as opposed to other clubs.

I think its fair to disagree with me, and it probably does warrant a discussion on how we should or shouldn't rate a teams defense, but i doubt im intelligent enough to change my views on how i see our defense until i've seen a lot of games post that potential discussion.
 
Raees said:
Lets just say he done it on Mourinho's orders to agitate for a move.. like Ashley Cole did, or lets just say he really does want to move somewhere he can win trophies, be closer to home and get paid higher.. he shouldn't be lambasted for wanting any of these things.

He is hardly a Di Maria type of player, who will be moving here there and everywhere. He is aware that he is possible a player capable of winning trophies at the highest level now that he has found his best position and has become one of the top players in the league and internationally in that position. He has a right to want a move to a bigger club if he feels Spurs are on the verge of stagnation or have missed the boat in terms of competing for trophies. It would be incredibly small minded and silly of us to ignore a talented player because he thinks he can do better than Spurs. Rose is a good player and has a good mentality in general, all players need to throw their toys out of the pram now and again in order to secure the transfers they desire... it is not always a reflection on how they will be as team players within the squad.

As to your second point, what has Shaw done on the pitch to prove he is a more talented player than Danny Rose or that he can actually spend enough time on the pitch to be the better left back. Danny Rose is a much more reliable left back than him and is proven whereas Shaw has it all to prove. Secondly I would argue Rose has much more to his game on the ball than Shaw does, and he is more dynamic and robust.. whereas Shaw at his best has the edge defensively. Either way Rose could solve our left back issue right away whereas relying on Shaw coming good again is a huge gamble on our part and not one Mourinho should be willing to take seeing how lopsided our attack is at the moment.
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Firstly, there is no evidence to suggest that Jose had any part in Rose's master plan. I wouldn't put it past either of them, all is fair in love and war and football, but it's unfair to base an argument on simple guesswork. We don't know the full facts and we very likely never will. All we know is Danny Rose has acted in a way that makes him look desperate and severly lacking in decorum. An asshole if you will. I don't want him anywhere near our club.

Rose a good fullback, no doubt, but he is no better than Shaw. The latter has suffered post-injury, his confidence has been shot to bits and his courage in the tackle is somewhat lacking, but we all know the potential is there. I'm sure you remember how good he was prior to the injury; the best fullback in the league and largely our best performer overall. I'm not ready to give up on him yet as I believe he has the potential to be up there with the best left backs on the planet.

Jose may feel differently. Guess we'll find out soon enough.
 
Random Task said:
I just don't want players like Rose at the club full stop. Those of low character, your typical mercenary. Let him rot in the reserves at Spurs or join the Renties.
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Stupid statement. You don't even know him. He's never given any trouble and Spurs players always say he's the mangers favourite as he follows his instructions to a tee and is always in the office after games. But no you don't want this type of player.

Matic is a mercenary too, do you wish we never signed him.
 
Random Task said:
You'd want Rose even after what he has said in the press? Angling for a move is one thing, but to openly berate his own teammates the week before the season starts is not someone I want playing for United.


Luke Shaw, when playing at his very best, is just as good as Rose and has a higher ceiling in terms of potential.
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He certainly has potential to be fantastic - this was evident during the LVG reign (prior to breaking his leg). However, post break, he's not looked a shadow of himself and further to this, Mourinho and his public shaming has only dampened his performances (IMO). I'm all for Shaw being the future at LB - in fact, I hope this happens, based on his potential. The one underlying factor though - potential does not win titles. Rose, while accredited with a lower ceiling base, is playing to a much higher standard right now.

As for his temperament - most footballers are mercenaries. This is nothing new. At least he's had the decency to speak it, rather than have an agent do it for him.
 
Mainoldo said:
Stupid statement. You don't even know him. He's never given any trouble and Spurs players always say he's the mangers favourite as he follows his instructions to a tee and is always in the office after games. But no you don't want this type of player.

Matic is a mercenary too, do you wish we never signed him.
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Stupid statement because you disagree? Because you'd welcome a player of his low character at the club since it might just strengthen the team to a degree - emphasise on the might. Guess you're the type who covets winning things above all else. Cares not for the manner in which a certain individual conducts himself so long as his ability is of a high standard.

And how the hell are you comparing the way in which Matic acted throughout the summer, to Danny Rose desperately spouting a "come get me" plea in the media. Ridiculous comparison. You would have been better served using that of the Rojo transfer.
 
Random Task said:
Firstly, there is no evidence to suggest that Jose had any part in Rose's master plan. I wouldn't put it past either of them, all is fair in love and war and football, but it's unfair to base an argument on simple guesswork. We don't know the full facts and we very likely never will. All we know is Danny Rose has acted in a way that makes him look desperate and severly lacking in decorum. An asshole if you will. I don't want him anywhere near our club.

Rose a good fullback, no doubt, but he is no better than Shaw. The latter has suffered post-injury, his confidence has been shot to bits and his courage in the tackle is somewhat lacking, but we all know the potential is there. I'm sure you remember how good he was prior to the injury; the best fullback in the league and largely our best performer overall. I'm not ready to give up on him yet as I believe he has the potential to be up there with the best left backs on the planet.

Jose may feel differently. Guess we'll find out soon enough.
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With all due respect, that's bullshit.
Shaw has no form to bank on in new 3 years.
 
Random Task said:
A matter of opinion I guess.

Clearly I'm a fan of Shaw and I feel his potential warrants at least 1 more season with which to prove himself.
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I agree we shouldn't be selling. Doesn't mean we shouldn't still go after Rose.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Walker was sold because Spurs were OK with selling him - we got £50m and have Trippier.

Whether Alderweireld is stalling - or whether instead an agreement has not yet been reached but will be - remains to be seen. In any event his current contract, with an optional extension at the club's discretion, still has 3 years to run, but which time he'll be 31.

Rose signed a new 5 year contract less than 12 months ago. He won't be sold this summer.

So yes, all in all I'd say it's pretty much water off a duck's back. The media - and some fans - get excited about these sorts things, but in the end it will have zero actual effect.
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The negative comments from Rose indicates a glaring issue. Rose is a senior player within your young squad who thinks he is undervalued, so he may be saying things out loud that other players are thinking. Meanwhile another senior player, Alderweireld, is seeking more money also. The younger players will be sure to take note. Of course they also speak with their friends playing for top clubs in England and I'm sure they talk about salary.

Yes you can state the length of contracts to me all you want, and of course you can force these players to see out their contracts against their will, but are unhappy players good for the teams morale?

I don't think you can class this negativity and unhappiness as 'zero actual effect'. In the very short term (this summer), it may have little effect, but in the next year or two the effect could be huge if other players within the squad start demanding what they are actually worth.
 
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Ødegaard said:
I think a defense is helped by multiple things.
I mentioned those that i saw as clearly superior both in play and in quality (RM & BM), and then mantioned clubs that were performing for one reason or another at or above our level. Barca is quite unique in their way, i cant say they are easy to score against just because their defenders aren't good at defending. They are hard to score against, so i have to try and break down why.
I see a lot more of our games than any other club however, so its much easier for me to be critical of our flaws than it is to be of other clubs. Just as its easier for me to praise the massive talents or wc gk we have as opposed to other clubs.

I think its fair to disagree with me, and it probably does warrant a discussion on how we should or shouldn't rate a teams defense, but i doubt im intelligent enough to change my views on how i see our defense until i've seen a lot of games post that potential discussion.
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Ah the grass is greener on the other side effect. No problem.
 
If we can get him I say go for it. Shaw has been a massive disappointment, and our other left back options are shite.
 
Random Task said:
Stupid statement because you disagree? Because you'd welcome a player of his low character at the club since it might just strengthen the team to a degree - emphasise on the might. Guess you're the type who covets winning things above all else. Cares not for the manner in which a certain individual conducts himself so long as his ability is of a high standard.

And how the hell are you comparing the way in which Matic acted throughout the summer, to Danny Rose desperately spouting a "come get me" plea in the media. Ridiculous comparison. You would have been better served using that of the Rojo transfer.
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No because it's just a stupid statement. Your making emotion cloud your opinion. You don't know Danny Rose and you don't play professionally football so why you feel the need to single him out whilst accept many players that already play for or have played for us who have done similar things is silly. It's like your trying to bring up a debate for no reason.

Low character? Did you skip over the bit where I said Spurs players regard him as the managers pet? I didn't know low character individuals get those accolades.

He improves our squad a lot as he is the best left back in the league. We currently play with sub par left backs.
 
The standard of our left backs is unacceptable (Shaw may be good enough one day but he's always injured) so Rose would be a good signing if we could get it done.

It would put an end to this 'out and out winger required' nonsense anyway.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
If we can get him I say go for it. Shaw has been a massive disappointment, and our other left back options are shite.
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If Shaw fails at Utd I want him hung drawn and battered. It will be no good simply blaming Jose, you come to Utd you give it 1000% irrespective of injuries and cake temptations. In retrospect, we should have waited a season longer to see how his arse panned out.
 
Obiorahking_ said:
Ah the grass is greener on the other side effect. No problem.
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Grass is greener is a bit off.
Its more of a amplifier both ways, where the great becomes greater and the sub-par becomes plain bad.
As an example for the great becomes greater, i see DDG as the unquestionable best gk in the world, despite many or even most rating Neuer higher. I dont see enough of Neuer to warrant putting him above the greatness of our Donut.
Could be a mix of grass is greener and tribalism, but then again i also think Hazard is better than Dembele, Robben, Isco and a few others that some would question my sanity of, so im not sure its tribalism, but more the amplification of liking or disliking what you see often.
 
balaks said:
The timing shows that this has been done to cause as much damage as possible. Rose is finished as a Spurs player imo.
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I think not. He may get the bullet next summer tho'.
 
Womp said:
Wouldn't he still fail the medical regardless, though?
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There's really no such thing as a 'pass' or 'fail', there is no governing body providing a pre-set criteria that says 'this equals a fail and therefore the club can't sign the player' or 'this equals a pass and the club is free to sign him'. See Remy 'failing' his Liverpool one for example but 'passing' his Chelsea one and signing for them days later.

Club doctors, physio's and chosen consultants will be the one's conducting the tests and assessing the results, it's then entirely up to the club based upon their findings to decide whether they want to go ahead and sign him or not, regardless of what type of injury he might be carrying.

It's really just the media sensationalizing the whole thing, in the case of Remy, Liverpool found something they didn't like the look of and decided not to go through with the deal, Chelsea likely found the same thing in their tests but decided it wasn't that big a deal and completed the signing.
 
CM10 said:
How? Trippier only really became involved for you towards the back end of last season once it was apparent Walker would be leaving. If Rose kicked up enough of a fuss (which I don't think he will) I could definitely see a similar outcome.
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How? Simple: the quality gap between Trippier and Walker is minor, far less than that between Davies and Rose.
 
An Irish Red said:
The standard of our left backs is unacceptable (Shaw may be good enough one day but he's always injured) so Rose would be a good signing if we could get it done.

It would put an end to this 'out and out winger required' nonsense anyway.
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This.
We currently face a situation where our LB and LW both cut in to deliver a cross. That's weird as feck.
Rose will give us natural width and improve our attack massively.
 
Mainoldo said:
No because it's just a stupid statement. Your making emotion cloud your opinion. You don't know Danny Rose and you don't play professionally football so why you feel the need to single him out whilst accept many players that already play for or have played for us who have done similar things is silly. It's like your trying to bring up a debate for no reason.

Low character? Did you skip over the bit where I said Spurs players regard him as the managers pet? I didn't know low character individuals get those accolades.

He improves our squad a lot as he is the best left back in the league. We currently play with sub par left backs.
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If Rose really wanted a move away from Spurs, why did he not choose to do it internally, in the form of a transfer request? Why spout off to the media where fans and peers alike will judge him for it. Let's be honest, if Rose hadn't said what he did we wouldn't even be having this debate. He went about the whole situation terribly.

I don't know the guy personally, obviously not, but that's the whole point. The only judgement we have on a professional footballers character and decorum levels are what we hear them say directly in the press (most of us anyway). Danny Rose, well aware of that fact I'm sure, chose to act like an asshole. Therefore for it's safe to assume he has low character. I do not recall any other current United players acting in that manner pre-transfer, at least not to the extent Danny Rose did recently.
 
Obiorahking_ said:
We need to get Danny Rose at all costs. Just look at this wicked lineup and depth:

Rose
Shaw

Baily
Smalling

Jones
Rojo/Lindleof

Valencia
Darmian

I don't think there is another team in the world other than maybe Bayern that matches this depth and quality. Get Err Done.
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If there was a RedCafe Meltdown twitter account, this post would feature.
 
Random Task said:
Why did he leave, though? That's the question you need to be asking yourself.

For me the answer is obvious, he simply wanted more money. Rose does too. Alderwield simply wants a release clause which Massa Levy refuses to grant his players as he considers them property.
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No shit Sherlock. You should be on TV.

BTW, your comments re. Levy are both tasteless and ridiculous.
 
Shaw + money does make a lot of sense for all parties, asssuming Shaw isn't on the type of astronomical wages that the media have said he's on, otherwise I doubt he's willing to take a big paycut and Spurs won't be able to afford to pay him the same (or they'd just give it to Rose).
 
Cascarino said:
If we use that as the criteria then Bournemouth have as good as attackers as United.
Its off-topic anyway so Ill leave it at that.
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Please tell us what criteria we have to use to measure defense other than goals conceded?
 
If he's available I would say say go for him. I'll probably get the stick for this but Shaw hasn't shown anything in over a year that makes him a permanent solution for us and our back-up in that position is average at best. I know he's had some bad injuries but there is no guarantee he will ever become what we all hoped he would be.
 
Random Task said:
If Rose really wanted a move away from Spurs, why did he not choose to do it internally, in the form of a transfer request? Why spout off to the media where fans and peers alike will judge him for it. Let's be honest, if Rose hadn't said what he did we wouldn't even be having this debate. He went about the whole situation terribly.

I don't know the guy personally, obviously not, but that's the whole point. The only judgement we have on a professional footballers character and decorum levels are what we hear them say directly in the press (most of us anyway). Danny Rose, well aware of that fact I'm sure, chose to act like an asshole. Therefore for it's safe to assume he has low character. I do not recall any other current United players acting in that manner pre-transfer, at least not to the extent Danny Rose did recently.
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I agree that it's all a bit unedifying.

However, it's probably a mix of a) Levy being an absolute cnut of a guy to negotiate with, therefore the chances of sorting it out amicably behind the scenes are slim, and b) sneaky Jose tapping him up behind the scenes.

As to what Rose actually said in the interview, I agreed with most of it.

Reminds me most of what Sterling did a couple of years ago...and we all know how that ended up...
 
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