Danny Ings | Signs for Liverpool (lol)

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Brwned said:
I guess the point is that if we have this attitude for Ings, we won't be improving him at all. We'll just halt his development.
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Oh aye, unless he miraculously kicked on, it'd be a naff move to him... of the Scott Sinclair/Jack Rodwell to City mold.
 
Revan said:
If we sign him, we won't sign someone better for that position. What does it matter that he won't cost nothing, while we won't sign someone better there but have more than a hundred millions in the bank?
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Agreed. We should buy Benzema to be third choice. And Courtois as a back up keeper. And Fabregas as Herrera back up.
 
Mainoldo said:
They can develop in the league they are in now.. I don't see a problem in trying to improve English players considering this is an English league...

Isn't that the whole point!!
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Developing developing, Man United.
As the reds go marching on Europa League.


Annihilate Now! said:
It's not that they would refuse, it's that they would expect serious game-time when they get here. If RVP goes this summer I still expect us to sign someone of that ilk, to take the burden off Rooney, Ings isn't a second choice here.

As an aside, how would Dybala fit into our current system exactly? In who's place?
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Ideally, as Rooney's backup (which should give him enough time considering that we'll have more than 50 matches next season) while getting some minutes in other positions (he can play everywhere on front four from what I have seen).

With Rooney getting old, Dybala would get more minutes and eventually replace him.
 
Sarni said:
Agreed. We should buy Benzema to be third choice. And Courtois as a back up keeper. And Fabregas as Herrera back up.
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No. That would be absurd.

There is the middle ground between Messi and Heskey.
 
Revan said:
Ideally, as Rooney's backup (which should give him enough time considering that we'll have more than 50 matches next season) while getting some minutes in other positions (he can play everywhere on front four from what I have seen).

With Rooney getting old, Dybala would get more minutes and eventually replace him.
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Exactly, you're currently describing our back-up striker.... which would be RVP, not Ings.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
It's not that they would refuse, it's that they would expect serious game-time when they get here. If RVP goes this summer I still expect us to sign someone of that ilk, to take the burden off Rooney, Ings isn't a second choice here.

As an aside, how would Dybala fit into our current system exactly? In who's place?
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Ideally, as Rooney's backup (which should give him enough time considering that we'll have more than 50 matches next season) while getting some minutes in other positions (he can play everywhere on front four from what I have seen).

With Rooney getting old, Dybala would get more minutes and eventually replace him.
 
I, for one, would be delighted with this signing if it caused Revan to combust.
 
Revan said:
No. That would be absurd.

There is the middle ground between Messi and Heskey.
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Yes, and the middle ground between Benzema and Heskey is probably around the level Ings should aspire to be at.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Exactly, you're currently describing our back-up striker.... which would be RVP, not Ings.
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Who will be 32 by the beginning of next season, has missed a big part of this and the previous season, isn't playing that well and there are voices that he's gonna leave.

That is the position which we should upgrade IMO, not Wilson's position. And if we want to iupgrade Wilson's position then we already have Hernandez who is better than Ings and won't cost nothing.
 
Revan said:
Who will be 32 by the beginning of next season, has missed a big part of this and the previous season, isn't playing that well and there are voices that he's gonna leave.

That is the position which we should upgrade IMO, not Wilson's position. And if we want to iupgrade Wilson's position then we already have Hernandez who is better than Ings and won't cost nothing.
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Well then your problem is with RVP - not Ings. Ings wouldn't be for RVP's position, that would be where we sign someone like Lacazette or Dybala or whoever.

As has been mentioned a few times, Hernandez wants first team football (or at least second choice) - plus there is money to be made off his transfer.
 
Brwned said:
I guess the point is that if we have this attitude for Ings, we won't be improving him at all. We'll just halt his development.
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I don't think he would get a lot of game time but I don't think it would halt his development. He gets a chance to train with a great manager and great players.. Where else will he get this?

I don't think it's always a bad thing Conar Wickham for example would probably be a better player now if he chose Liverpool over Sunderland.

Ings is 50/50 with me though. Sometimes I see him and he looks quality other times a bag of crap.
 
Sarni said:
Then we ought to sign Benzema. Or Muller.
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That would be if we want to upgrade Rooney's position, which we don't.

For Rooney's backup, I would prefer a good young player with high potential. Not an average young player with potential to become as good as Danny Welbeck.
 
Revan said:
That would be if we want to upgrade Rooney's position, which we don't.

For Rooney's backup, I would prefer a good young player with high potential. Not an average young player with potential to become as good as Danny Welbeck.
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Ings has been better this season than Welbeck. Significantly.
 
Sarni said:
Ings has been better this season than Welbeck. Significantly.
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I disagree. They have been around the same level. And Welbeck has had better seasons than this one.

Don't think that either of them will ever become that good.

I am also out of this thread now.
 
Revan said:
That would be if we want to upgrade Rooney's position, which we don't.

For Rooney's backup, I would prefer a good young player with high potential. Not an average young player with potential to become as good as Danny Welbeck.
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Again, Ing's isn't Rooney's backup... he'd be RVP's backup.
 
Ings would be a no lose situation. Even if he didn't work out we'd be able to sell him on in a year or two at no real loss.

He'd be ideal to come in as third choice, with Wilson getting a loan and Hernandez being sold. Unsure what will happen with Henriquez.

I think RvP will stay, and assuming we play with just one upfront, Rooney, RvP and Ings is a fine front three. Ings has what, 9 league goals for Burnley? Pretty good considering they are 19th. He's young enough that he can develop, and wouldn't be on massive wages.

Would far rather that than spend £40m on Falcao plus his stupidly high wages. Use the money elsewhere.
 
Revan said:
As much as LVG is great, he has been - for most of his career - awful at signings. FFS, he broke out with Bayern because he didn't want them to sign Neuer. He also caused a shitstorm by refusing to play Gomez and only injuries on other players forced him to do so. Coincidentally, that saved his job for a few months considering that Gomez during those months was by far, Bayern's best player.

I think that his weird paradigma of 'system matters, players not' isn't exactly the best. Obviously the system matters, but the better the players the better the results (if the system is implemented well).
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Sorry but that is not true. He preferred Backstuber, while the hierarchy wanted a new CB.
 
It's come to a stage where English players have actually become underrated due to the sheer volume of posters dismissing them as overrated without ever seeing them play. The first few pages of the Harry Kane thread is the perfect example. Milner is another one who gets dismissed as shite when in fact he's quite a good player.

From the few times I have seen Ings play, he looks quite good. Strong, quick, can the run channels and is a good finisher. To add to that he's just 22 and can be signed for next to nothing. It's a no brainer from our point of view. If things work out, we've got a very squad player for not much. And if they don't we still get our money back.
 
devilish said:
You'll find all sorts of fans. Some get excited with the foreign names and others tend to do the same with the next England's thing. I am sure that people like @Brwned etc can still recall the fans wet dreams whenever names like Joe Cole and Reo-Coker were linked to us. There was a particular posters lately who had already crowned the Harry Kane as a better player then Dwight Yorke.
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Perhaps. The issue here though should be whether he's good enough, and while 9 goals this season isn't by any means a brilliant return, given the pretty awful side he's in, the fact that its his first season in the top flight and the fact that we may be light upfront (even with one blockbuster addition) could meake him viable as a player to take a punt on.

I don't think anyone would suggest he's going to be a superstar - he most likely won't, but if he scored 10 goals next season (which would be a fair expectation off the bench) as a reliable addition to the squad then you'd say it'd probably be worthwhile.
 
akash02 said:
It's come to a stage where English players have actually become underrated due to the sheer volume of posters dismissing them as overrated without ever seeing them play. The first few pages of the Harry Kane thread is the perfect example. Milner is another one who gets dismissed as shite when in fact he's quite a good player.

From the few times I have seen Ings play, he looks quite good. Strong, quick, can the run channels and is a good finisher. To add to that he's just 22 and can be signed for next to nothing. It's a no brainer from our point of view. If things work out, we've got a very squad player for not much. And if they don't we still get our money back.
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Good point, but the jury is still out on Harry Kane, he needs to do it next season before people will finally take him on board. But he has the tools.
 
Brwned said:
It's a perfectly valid comparison. English, first chance to really prove himself in the PL playing for a weak team and he did well. If that's all you need - along with a few tabloid rumors, of course - to put yourself forward as being good enough to play for title-challengers then DJ Campbell and 100's of others have been sorely overlooked.



That's not what people want. You're just saying that to justify your (almost xenophobic) attitude to foreign players. People are saying they would prefer to sign someone like Vietto because he's also affordable - with a release clause of £15m - and because he's proven himself on a higher level and performed better. He's scored a goal every 137 minutes in the league (compared to Ings scoring a goal every 277 minutes) and is joint third top scorer in the Europa League, and his general skill level and versatility are a level above Ings'. They don't prefer Vietto because he's "foreign". They prefer him because he's more proven.
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The comparison to DJ Campbell is fair - if you completely ignore the fact that this player seems to be attracting admiring glances from other decent sides as well, and not just teams in the PL, and at 22 may yet prove to be a decent player if given the chance to step up a level. Clearly he's doing (or does) something that scouts for a lot of sides like. If our scouts like him (which may or may not be the case) there is obviously cause for that given how many players they must see each year.

Given that, and the fact that its virtually risk free I dont see why people are getting bent out of shape over it.

And I have no issue over foreign players - and we may well go and buy a player like Vietto to play upfront next year anyway. As said above, I suspect we're going to see a few forwards leave (either permenatly or on loan) and there might be plenty of space for two forwards given the amount of games we're likely to have.

For me if he's been watched, if the club like him and he's available for not a lot in the grand scheme of things then it seems like a sensible bit of business. We need homegrown players in the squad and having watched a bit of him I think in a good side he'd get a few goals. If not then he'd likely be moved on for what we paid for him anyway. If we bring in a foreign player (though or otherwsie) who might take time to settle a player you can throw straight in might be useful to have around the squad.
 
RedRover said:
The comparison to DJ Campbell is fair - if you completely ignore the fact that this player seems to be attracting admiring glances from other decent sides as well, and not just teams in the PL, and at 22 may yet prove to be a decent player if given the chance to step up a level. Clearly he's doing (or does) something that scouts for a lot of sides like. If our scouts like him (which may or may not be the case) there is obviously cause for that given how many players they must see each year.

Given that, and the fact that its virtually risk free I dont see why people are getting bent out of shape over it.

And I have no issue over foreign players - and we may well go and buy a player like Vietto to play upfront next year anyway. As said above, I suspect we're going to see a few forwards leave (either permenatly or on loan) and there might be plenty of space for two forwards given the amount of games we're likely to have.

For me if he's been watched, if the club like him and he's available for not a lot in the grand scheme of things then it seems like a sensible bit of business. We need homegrown players in the squad and having watched a bit of him I think in a good side he'd get a few goals. If not then he'd likely be moved on for what we paid for him anyway. If we bring in a foreign player (though or otherwsie) who might take time to settle a player you can throw straight in might be useful to have around the squad.
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We don't.

Third keeper, Rafael, Jones, Evans, Smalling, Shaw, Carrick, Rooney, Januzaj, Pereira, Wilson, Young, McNair, Blackett.

Here are 14 homegrown players. We need only 8 to be ok with the quotas. Obviously some of them will leave, but as long as that number isn't bigger than 6 we're fine.
 
RedRover said:
Perhaps. The issue here though should be whether he's good enough, and while 9 goals this season isn't by any means a brilliant return, given the pretty awful side he's in, the fact that its his first season in the top flight and the fact that we may be light upfront (even with one blockbuster addition) could meake him viable as a player to take a punt on.

I don't think anyone would suggest he's going to be a superstar - he most likely won't, but if he scored 10 goals next season (which would be a fair expectation off the bench) as a reliable addition to the squad then you'd say it'd probably be worthwhile.
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If you read my posts you'll notice that I am not against signing Ings

My point is that you will find muppets at both ends of the spectrum (ie the foreign players muppets and the British players ones)
 
Revan said:
We don't.

Third keeper, Rafael, Jones, Evans, Smalling, Shaw, Carrick, Rooney, Januzaj, Pereira, Wilson, Young, McNair, Blackett.

Here are 14 homegrown players. We need only 8 to be ok with the quotas. Obviously some of them will leave, but as long as that number isn't bigger than 6 we're fine.
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Rafael and Evans are very likely to leave in the Summer. Pereira could move pretty soon as well and at least one of McNair and Blackett will be gone within 2 years too IMO. And within 3-4 years I believe Carrick and Young will be gone and Rooney will be almost 35.

We don't need English players for quota though, you're right. I'm merely pointing out that in 3-4 years time we're likely to have few players from the list.
 
Revan said:
We don't.

Third keeper, Rafael, Jones, Evans, Smalling, Shaw, Carrick, Rooney, Januzaj, Pereira, Wilson, Young, McNair, Blackett.

Here are 14 homegrown players. We need only 8 to be ok with the quotas. Obviously some of them will leave, but as long as that number isn't bigger than 6 we're fine.
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Hmm I am not certain about that.

Rafael fate seems sealed + Evans will probably leave if we get Hummels.
Carrick wont last for long
Mcnair and Blackett will have to contend an ever increasing amount of competition
Januzaj and Periera wont be considered homegrown talent if Dyke rules pass
 
devilish said:
Hmm I am not certain about that.

Rafael fate seems sealed + Evans will probably leave if we get Hummels.
Carrick wont last for long
Mcnair and Blackett will have to contend an ever increasing amount of competition
Januzaj and Periera wont be considered homegrown talent if Dyke rules pass
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2020-2021. You literally can't plan that far ahead.

Mainly - by then - the likes of Young, Rooney and Carrick would have been retired. No-one would know what will happen with neither of the homegrown players we have (although very likely Shaw would be here) and there is no guarantee (of near it) that any player we sign will be here after 5 years. And obviously, the rule probably won't pass in the first place.


Sarni said:
Rafael and Evans are very likely to leave in the Summer. Pereira could move pretty soon as well and at least one of McNair and Blackett will be gone within 2 years too IMO. And within 3-4 years I believe Carrick and Young will be gone and Rooney will be almost 35.

We don't need English players for quota though, you're right. I'm merely pointing out that in 3-4 years time we're likely to have few players from the list.
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Well, in 3-4 years most certainly we will sign a few English players and/or we will promote some academy players.

Obviously, you can just add some players from the academy in any case, as long as they don't surprass the limit of the squad (25).
 
Revan said:
2020-2021. You literally can't plan that far ahead.

Mainly - by then - the likes of Young, Rooney and Carrick would have been retired. No-one would know what will happen with neither of the homegrown players we have (although very likely Shaw would be here) and there is no guarantee (of near it) that any player we sign will be here after 5 years. And obviously, the rule probably won't pass in the first place.
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Actually you can and you have to considering the lack of British talent. Even Wenger who doesn't really have a tradition of buying British talent is planning ahead (Chambers, Welbeck etc). You cant blame him. If further restrictions are made than those players would be worth gold
 
Sarni said:
Rafael and Evans are very likely to leave in the Summer. Pereira could move pretty soon as well and at least one of McNair and Blackett will be gone within 2 years too IMO. And within 3-4 years I believe Carrick and Young will be gone and Rooney will be almost 35.
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Won't happen.

Dyke's rule won't be passed as well.There must be some adjustment to it at in the current state it's impossible for clubs to conform without seriously degrading their squad quality even if you're talking about 5 years later.
 
Wouldn't mind Ings as a squad signing, but I'd hope we'd look for someone significantly better to bring in at the same time, as it looks like we'll be losing Van Persie, as well as Falcao and possibly Hernandez.
 
Low risk signing but, also a low reward signing. I would rather have Wilson as a backup striker. I not sure Ings is any better than Wilson.
 
devilish said:
If you read my posts you'll notice that I am not against signing Ings

My point is that you will find muppets at both ends of the spectrum (ie the foreign players muppets and the British players ones)
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Fair enough. I didn't think you were against it by the way. As ever, I guess it divides opinion and I can see why people have the opinion that perhaps we'd ideally want better, and frankly if we moved on RVP and Falcao and only brought in a player like this that would be a problem. I suspect that wouldnt be the case as we're likely to have a lot of games next year. As such, I'd be happy for a player like that to come in and supplement a quality attack.
 
RedRover said:
Fair enough. I didn't think you were against it by the way. As ever, I guess it divides opinion and I can see why people have the opinion that perhaps we'd ideally want better, and frankly if we moved on RVP and Falcao and only brought in a player like this that would be a problem. I suspect that wouldnt be the case as we're likely to have a lot of games next year. As such, I'd be happy for a player like that to come in and supplement a quality attack.
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I agree.

What many fail to understand is that there's a global lack of quality strikers around. There's no new Rooney, Falcao, RVP etc running around and strikers who show some sort of talent (ex Dybala) are immediately priced at ridiculous prices. I mean could you imagine back in 1994-1995 that a striker with no finishing would move from United to Arsenal for 15m? I mean look at the forwards the big clubs had (Cantona and Cole at United, Fowler and Rush at Liverpool, Wright at Arsenal, Klinsmann and Sheringham at Spurs etc). FFS even Southampton (Le Tissier) and QPR (Les Ferdinand) were better strikers then Welbeck.

Hence why its becoming increasingly difficult to have two quality strikers competing for the same role. Its a seller's market this day.
 
Think he'd be a good, low risk, high reward signing. Sign him on the cheap to fill a gap whilst investing in areas that really do need strengthening. Worst case scenario he sits on the bench or in the reserves, stagnates doesn't do anything worthwhile gets sold for a little profit after a couple of years. Or...He is as good as all those in the know says he is, if this is the case whilst maybe not ever reaching world class levels (not far off though) he'd be well worth the effort and could be a fantastic option to have in certain games or if better players become available flog him at an obscene profit.
 
devilish said:
Actually you can and you have to considering the lack of British talent. Even Wenger who doesn't really have a tradition of buying British talent is planning ahead (Chambers, Welbeck etc). You cant blame him. If further restrictions are made than those players would be worth gold
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Wenger's built a Brit core at Arsenal. His mkIV squad could field

Szczesny (honorary Brit)
Jenkinson Chambers AN Other Gibbs
Wilshere Ramsey
Walcott Welbeck Ox

and he tried to buy Jones and Smalling.
 
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